Is there an explicit ratio policy here?

[saltman]

Originally Posted by freezer

Not enough people keep their ratios to a point where the chronic complainers won't keep their whiney asses in the lounge in the word association thread.......

cool. I haven't been to jazz fest since 1996. Always a good time. Some of my pals were their video recording. can't wait to see it when they get back.

[possessed]

Originally Posted by freezer

Not enough people keep their ratios to a point where the chronic complainers won't keep their whiney asses in the lounge in the word association thread.......

As opposed to old whiny bastards who like to argue over the internet, thereby raising their post count.

[Phishblowz]

maybe I'm just undereducated here, but I know I've seen a lot of "freezer" stuff (some of which I have liked and some I haven't...thanx for circulating them all the same) and although I haven't seen anything I recall coming from dcbullets efforts (be it taping, authoring or uploading) but it seems his ratio looks good, and he at least shared what he took (and then some) and all of you seem to have contributed in one fashion or another, and I personally appreciate all of your efforts, and as I don't know you guys personally, I have no gripes with any of you...so why then, if you have all been decent contributors here, are you all so hateful towards each other???

it's quite a bum trip guys...the hate seems rather personal...maybe that kind of jagged edge should be delivered via pm or something...you both seem to enjoy beatin each other up, but this seems a poor place to take up such matters...seems kinda strange too (I'm sure I'm missing much of the history, and don't wanna know either) sorry to see so much personal hatred here...I hope you all find a way to remain civil...sometimes it's best to agree to disagree

P.S. I'm aware that I could probably do well to take my own advice, and I too am working on trying to let things go, for the good of myself and those around me...this is an open forum and all kinds of assholes are welcome here...my kind, your kind, and every kind in between

we're allowed to be assholes, if that's who we are, and it's up to the community to learn how to deal with it...it's sad but it's true...don't know if this helps any of you, but I thought I'd share it with ya

[U2Lynne]

Phishblowz, freezer has sent a lot of shows to some users to seed here. His ratio will always be 0 even though he has shared who know how many new shows here (or elsewhere). So, he would be banned if we enforced a ratio ban here. Is that right?

I'll continue to state that I'm not crazy about ratio bans. I don't think ratios tell the whole story about sharing. Sharing is not all about torrents. I know it is frustrating to hop on a show and give your upload to someone who then jumps off.... I've done it tons of times... I've even posted in threads saying I hope so-and-so will stay on after I upload to them to continue sharing. But, in the long run, I realize I have to just share the shows.

[Phishblowz]

like I said about these guys that are spreading a lot of hate towards each other...they seem to be good members...I said I got some things that were "freezer" tapes...and some I passed on (but am aware he is responsible for, and that's cool of him) so I was more curious as to why people who have done so much for the music preservation are bashing each other, that's all

as for the ratio issue, he could (and should) be credited for his efforts...these credits could be applied as upload credit to reflect his ratio in an overall aspect rather than a strict BT ul/dl issue...other sites have been known to creit uploads for donations, we could do so for bnp offers and vines and new offerings like "freezer" tapes and things like that...but in Freezers case, any way you look at it, he has a non-ratio...it is neither high nor low, therefore, as he has "taken" nothing, he wouldn't be required to "give back" to remain at an even level...0:0 is the same as 1:1...but yes I understand your point about good people getting shafted by an uneven policy...I think a credit system would balance it, but I have come to accept the inevitable, and I am okay with it...I don't wish to rant, and I'm sorry if some people I respect think ill of me for all of this, and I am sorry...everyone knows how I feel about it and I will leave it at that...I will continue to do what I think is right, and what other people do is there problem...it's not my cross to bear, and I will lay that burden down now...thanks for all the wise opinions by many of you on the matter...there have been good arguements on both sides, and a rather spirited debate...it's a shame that healthy debates tend to get ugly over the net, but it was a valuable experience (if nothing else)

thanks to most of you for the valuable input

[freezer]

Originally Posted by Phishblowz

.....so why then, if you have all been decent contributors here, are you all so hateful towards each other???

I guess where it begins is with past arguements over false lineages.....

Particularly when it pertains to Led Zeppelin......some of the guys I make fun of (especially in this thread) may or may not have ever 'knowingly' passed off fake lineages.....but they sure as fuck take it personal whenever the word 'lineage' is mentioned.


In my case, I'm sure where it begins with "them that hates me" is that they know I have things they want and can't get.....The demands are usually followed by NOTHING but hatred. (Lots of denials will occur to this remark, but if the specific recording came available, they'd be asses and elbows all over it....)



You got it, there's a lot of hate involved.



I say it begins with the lineage frauds, I'm sure in the background is that I do have things they want. and I rub it in.....



Didn't you wonder about the "mouth full of gimme" remark?

I've used that on the takers, and if you like, it's yours to use on the uberleechers; I like to use it for the nose-picking jerks who feel the need to demand from tapers when they'll never dare to walk in a taper's shoes. (Is she here?)



Yeah, I'm old, older than almost all of you here, wouldn't trade it for the world.

First band taped: John Fred and his Playboy Band in September of 1967....not a stealth job either.....they were riding on a hit named "Agnes English" just having "Up and Down" off the charts in May 67. I got to see them do their new song, "Judy In Disguise" before it was released.

First stealth jobs were in 1968....lousy recordings, but a start. Animals...Steppenwolf....



Also, I'm not much of a subscriber to the "community" thing.

I'm a trader.

In order for me to be able to operate as a trader looking for rare material, I have to have material that doesn't circulate.....and in most cases, they're recordings I made myself.

You see old recordings from me popping up only to try to shake loose something I'm looking for....

You see new recordings from me because I like the music and I know certain folks here like it or 'should' like it. Or because I'd like to see some unknown/new/old act get some attention.

But that's my motives for sharing.

I'm looking for only a few specific recordings and after I find 'em (or if I just give up the search) I'm a gone pecan.

I'm not interested in every live recording by every band.....been there - done that....its boring...and I never got back the same quality of recordings I was putting out.



........and I'm not going to archive the history of any band. That's anal-retentive.....and I ain't a librarian.

Hell, I don't even believe that my recordings are part of the "history of Rock n Roll" or "historical documents". (if a band wanted to be documented they should do it themselves....don't look to me for help....I'm not interested.)



I'm mostly interested in recordings of the shows I've seen.

And what keeps me around is I'm still searching for the soundboard recording of 12/12/70 Doors in New Orleans.

I'll trade for that, name what I have you want.....then I'm a hiistory lesson.





So if you want to get rid of me, just come up with that soundboard recording of the last Doors show with Jim Morrison, and I'm gone......

And then the jerks can lie about lineages all they want......

[U2Lynne]

Originally Posted by freezer

I guess where it begins is with past arguements over false lineages.....

No, no, and no.

Not all arguments on this site are over lineage. In fact, until you mentioned it as a word in a Lounge thread (we aren't in The Lounge!!!!) it wasn't brought up.

NEXT!

No more lineage in this thread.

Back on track for this thread now. And I'm serious.

[freezer]

Originally Posted by U2Lynne

No, no, and no.

Not all arguments on this site are over lineage. In fact, until you mentioned it as a word in a Lounge thread (we aren't in The Lounge!!!!) it wasn't brought up.

NEXT!

No more lineage in this thread.

Back on track for this thread now. And I'm serious.

So what are you going to do about MY ratio?

[Silver Stallion DVDs]

Originally Posted by Phishblowz

as for the ratio issue, he could (and should) be credited for his efforts...these credits could be applied as upload credit to reflect his ratio in an overall aspect rather than a strict BT ul/dl issue...other sites have been known to creit uploads for donations, we could do so for bnp offers and vines and new offerings like "freezer" tapes and things like that...

I've offered to give away 200 gigs to any TTDer in need. But apparently it can't be done...or can it? I'd gladly give it all away. It damn sure ain't doin' me any good.

[U2Lynne]

Originally Posted by freezer

So what are you going to do about MY ratio?

Nothing. We aren't banning anyone over ratios (have we ever said we would?). This is a discussion thread. Are we not allowed to discuss here?

[freezer]

Originally Posted by U2Lynne

Nothing. We aren't banning anyone over ratios (have we ever said we would?). This is a discussion thread. Are we not allowed to discuss here?

Are we?

Then why did you stop me from mentioning ..........

Are we allowed to discuss here? Freely discuss?

I dunno, you make the rules, you decided I couldn't use a certain word to even explain myself.

In reply to a previous post

Hell I wouldn't even be in this thread if certain people hadn't referred to me.

Why invoke the devil if you already know you won't like him for telling the truth?



Now you say 'this is a discussion thread" ......

Well that's ALL I was trying to do. discuss.....


goddam, you know I really love you but sometimes you send such mixed signals.









Now, are you sure we shouldn't discuss my ratio? You forgetting how many times you had to quiet down that looney-bird?

[dcbullet]

Originally Posted by freezer

Hell I wouldn't even be in this thread if certain people hadn't referred to me.

Which post was that?

[U2Lynne]

Originally Posted by freezer

Hell I wouldn't even be in this thread if certain people hadn't referred to me.

I just looked through the thread.... you showed up at post 51, but I can't find you mentioned prior to that.

Originally Posted by U2Lynne

I just looked through the thread.... you showed up at post 51, but I can't find you mentioned prior to that.

check post #7 made by me. i guess when freezer read through this thread he didn't like the cute responses by DCbullet and Jameskg so felt he had to jump into the ratio discussion to pick a fight with them.

Originally Posted by AAR.oner

do you ever have those moments when you wish this online community could materialize into a real 3dimensional space, lets say the pub maybe...that way all the wankers with their assanine opinions. greedy justifications, and complete lack of respect for the community could be served a healthy dose of some SHUTTHEFUCKUP! pint glass to the head style

[i should probly be de-modded Lynne, maybe take a break from online trading...leechers are beginning to make me violent ]

Let me get this straight. you wish Dudogger could say his opinion to you in a bar face to face so you can break a bottle over his head for having a different opinion than yours and other ppl here want to drink beer with you after you said that?

I understand where Dudogger is coming from. Some of you guys sound like you are defending America from the Muslims.

[guygee]

Share Share Share...Even tapers leach off of the bands, and bands leach off of the fans...it is a circle, and may it remain unbroken.

[Phishblowz]

Originally Posted by Trader Dave

Let me get this straight. you wish Dudogger could say his opinion to you in a bar face to face so you can break a bottle over his head for having a different opinion than yours and other ppl here want to drink beer with you after you said that?

I understand where Dudogger is coming from. Some of you guys sound like you are defending America from the Muslims.

FWIW, I think Dudogger has the wrong attitude...he does nothing to contribute here in any way and is proud of it...I disagree with his attitude and think he is wrong in the matter...but I don't think it's appropriate to wish harm on others like that...if the conversation breaks down that far, we should agree to disagree and leave it at that...which is where I left it...some people have really kicked it up a notch, and that's a little discouraging...spirited debate shouldn't turn into a mosh pit, but that's just my opinion

Originally Posted by Phishblowz

FWIW, I think Dudogger has the wrong attitude...he does nothing to contribute here in any way and is proud of it...I disagree with his attitude and think he is wrong in the matter...but I don't think it's appropriate to wish harm on others like that...if the conversation breaks down that far, we should agree to disagree and leave it at that...which is where I left it...some people have really kicked it up a notch, and that's a little discouraging...spirited debate shouldn't turn into a mosh pit, but that's just my opinion

I thought he was just saying that the share ratio isn't a fair way to judge others and a lot of ppl are using it to bash others?

Anyway, that's what i thought i read.

[freezer]

Originally Posted by toys

check post #7 made by me. i guess when freezer read through this thread he didn't like the cute responses by DCbullet and Jameskg so felt he had to jump into the ratio discussion to pick a fight with them.

Hello "games".....so good to see you again......

[Phishblowz]

it's a little more complicated than that, but for a simple look at it, people pick on people with low ratios asking for reseeds and artwork and shit, because it's felt that if they aren't giving the community shit, what right do they have to ask for more...they should be happy enough with what they get...and my opinion is that it's right to verbally abuse someone who deserves it, but if we are only looking at the ratio to determine the "value" on the site (which I too commonly do, and am trying to curb that behavior) then we should have the ratios reflect all their involvement on the site (vines bnp and other offerings...not just upload numbers) but again, that's a very short-sighted overview of the whole thing (the way I see it, at least)

but to your point, all of this can be discussed rationally (to some degree) and the idea of wanting to resort to violence to make your point is excessive, which I said in regards to your original comment (agreeing that this is getting out of hand)

[ssquirrel]

Originally Posted by U2Lynne

Phishblowz, freezer has sent a lot of shows to some users to seed here. His ratio will always be 0 even though he has shared who know how many new shows here (or elsewhere). So, he would be banned if we enforced a ratio ban here. Is that right?

To get a ratio you take what a person uploads and divide it by what they downloaded right? Doing that with Freezer's stats would mean dividing zero by zero, and well.. I don't know what happens when you divide by zero. Very, very dangerous territory there!

[freezer]

Originally Posted by guygee

Share Share Share...Even tapers leach off of the bands, and bands leach off of the fans...it is a circle, and may it remain unbroken.

[Phishblowz]

like I said, Freezer has a non-ratio...if you don't take anything, you don't give anything back...it's still balanced and not a defecit...but freezer should have major upload credited to his ratio stats for all his "behind the scenes" efforts in recording and circulating the things he has worked on like that...I have said several times that many of the folks here with these bad attitudes have done no wrong in my book...either their ratio looks good or I am conciously aware of their other efforts (like in Freezers case) so they're all cool by me...hopefully none of them have taken any offense to what i said...I they they are acting childish amongst each other, but the few encounters I've had with any of them, they were decent to me, so I can't speak against them...they have done no wrong by me

but about this ratio issue...say for instance a 5gb credit to your account for every vine offer, or bnp fulfilled, etc...all the people who download without uploading but give back in other ways, would receive credit for what they do and it would balance the ratio...the only people who would have poor stats would be those who contribute nothing in any fashion here...it could be done, and it would settle a lot of the inaccuracies with the ratio...I even offered the idea of abandoning the ban idea, but still finding a way to make the ratio about your overall efforts, and not just your bandwidth count...but no one has said ANYTHING about it...is it a bad idea???

I just think that most folks who are very active in the vines and bnps are getting shortchanged when people see a lousy ratio and think they don't contribute...why not credit them so they are recognized and appreciated for the effort...that's why we post ratios here, is for the recognition of your effort (or lack thereof) so why not apply the credit properly...if this is not JUST a torrent site, then why are the ratios specific to the torrents, and not the whole site...would anyone opine on whether this idea sounds good (or even makes sense to anyone but me)...PLEASE!!! it sounds like the answer to a lot of these problems, and no one said a word about it...don't you viners and bnpers want to get credit for your efforts???

[heymnaooh1]

Originally Posted by Phishblowz

don't you viners and bnpers want to get credit for your efforts???

They already get credit by being seen as good, reliable traders/viners/bnpers by others i.e. they get referrals by word of mouth. Unreliable, bad traders/viners/bnpers get outed privately and/or publicly, losing credibility not only on TTD but other live music trading communities as well.

for what its worth, the perecentage of members here with a ratio below .5 is less than 10%

meanwhile, the percentage of firewalled members currently on the tracker is around 40%

[U2Lynne]

Originally Posted by Phishblowz

...if this is not JUST a torrent site, then why are the ratios specific to the torrents, and not the whole site...would anyone opine on whether this idea sounds good (or even makes sense to anyone but me)...PLEASE!!! it sounds like the answer to a lot of these problems, and no one said a word about it...don't you viners and bnpers want to get credit for your efforts???

Trying to give someone a 'credit' in their ratio everytime they post a Vine or give a B&P would be a nightmare for Staff. It's much easier for us to list those items on their profile page. And, if we did decide to credit their ratio, trying to decide how much to credit them for each Vine/B&P would also be difficult to decide. The torrent ratio should show what they do on torrents. The Vines and B&Ps list shows how many shows they have offered in those ways. Maybe if I have a bit of time, I can add a link under their ratio that shows if they are a Viner or B&Per. Perhaps that would help to 'instantly' see what this person is contributing here.

[Powderfinger]

Originally Posted by Phishblowz

but about this ratio issue...say for instance a 5gb credit to your account for every vine offer, or bnp fulfilled, etc...all the people who download without uploading but give back in other ways, would receive credit for what they do and it would balance the ratio...the only people who would have poor stats would be those who contribute nothing in any fashion here...it could be done, and it would settle a lot of the inaccuracies with the ratio...I even offered the idea of abandoning the ban idea, but still finding a way to make the ratio about your overall efforts, and not just your bandwidth count...but no one has said ANYTHING about it...is it a bad idea???

I just think that most folks who are very active in the vines and bnps are getting shortchanged when people see a lousy ratio and think they don't contribute...why not credit them so they are recognized and appreciated for the effort...that's why we post ratios here, is for the recognition of your effort (or lack thereof) so why not apply the credit properly...if this is not JUST a torrent site, then why are the ratios specific to the torrents, and not the whole site...would anyone opine on whether this idea sounds good (or even makes sense to anyone but me)...PLEASE!!! it sounds like the answer to a lot of these problems, and no one said a word about it...don't you viners and bnpers want to get credit for your efforts???

If ratios mean nothing - which has been stated time and time again on this site - they should just be removed from clear public view.

As for giving "credits" to people who do B&P or vines, who the fuck is going to go through all of THAT effort?? The staff here are not paid (although I do think that the Cover Art Mod should get some sort of reward, for his job is a tough one) and to expect them to wade through 20 miles of bullshit in order to give Skippy-La-HaHa his credit due for doing a B&P on a Weezer show taped on a radio shack handheld is just fucking idiotic.

Ratios are only good for one thing - making fun of cocksuckers who have low ones.

End of story.

Don't be an idiot.

[Powderfinger]

Originally Posted by toys

meanwhile, the percentage of firewalled members currently on the tracker is around 40%

In the words of the Wicker Man - "Firewalled and don't give a fuck..."

And still have over a 4.0 ratio....

Fresh for 2007, you suckers.

[freezer]

Well........ after that!!! ^^^ ...... I ain't worried about no ratios no more.....

Goddam, P'finger, you sure set things straight in only a few well-chosen words....




no mo' worries 'bout them ratios.....

free at last...free at last.................
















_____________________________________

Originally Posted by Spider_Web

Well, then you are calling some serious Led Zep collectors liars.

Originally Posted by U2Lynne

You wall-eyed apple-knocking pig-fuckers! You don't know shit!

[Powderfinger]

Originally Posted by freezer

no mo' worries 'bout them ratios.....

free at last...free at last.................

Bro...anyone who doesn't know about your contributions to this site aren't worth fucking with...

screw 'em.

Now....gimmee, gimme, gimmee....

and much obliged!!!

[Phishblowz]

points well taken regarding credits to the ratio...a good idea, but virtually impossible to actually accomplish...though a link to their other contributions would be a good idea so folks have "instant" access to the rest of the story before we flame people...it's a more reasonable solution to the problem...probably won't fix anything, but it's a step in the right direction...thanx for all the input on the subject, I've really given a lot of thought to the more legitimate points made here, and I appreciate the flow of "decent" ideas

Originally Posted by U2Lynne

Dudogger, why is it that you think we should not show share ratios here? Do you download from the other big torrent sites like DIME or Tapecity or Lossless Legs or ....., cuz all the major torrent sites that I.....

You're kidding about major sites, right?
I went to Lossless Legs one time and it looked like a dead head fan site.
Anyway, THE REALLY BIG SITES like pirate bay, mininova, and the other BIG torrent sites don't use share ratios. It's the small sites like Lossless Legs and tapecity that do.

[freezer]

Originally Posted by Powderfinger

Bro...anyone who doesn't know about your contributions to this site aren't worth fucking with...

screw 'em.

Now....gimmee, gimme, gimmee....

and much obliged!!!

C'mon, P.... you know there's "members" at TTD that live to take on freezer.

I could say it's a nice day and some busy body would HAVE to argue about it.



No, let's discuss MY explicit ratio.........since it was already discussed on page one in this thread.....and subsequently referenced in further discussion.


Remember the original "Where do New Sources of old zeppelin shows come from" thread and how somebody just had to make a nasty comment in the first few posts?

WELL...using that thread's beginning ONLY as an example -- my point is:
"Would doing something to my ratio help remedy in keeping something like that from happening again?"

No -- ratio wouldn't have mattered.....That was purely a personal attack.




We're still discussing explicit ratio here.......MY explicit ratio.......OK......and using my unique situation as the case in point --- in almost every case where someone's complained about MY ratio or what I've shared or didn't share ...in almost every case....its been personal.

Ratios wouldn't have mattered.

Look at the original "new sources" thread. Remember mort? remember the looneybird SPECIFICALLY complaining about MY explicit ratio? All personal attacks.

Would it make any difference if I had a ratio at all?

Ratios wouldn't matter because the 'members' that wanted to take on freezer couldn't care about explicit ratios .... they had axes to grind.




So, still discussing ratios.....my ratio as an example.......

Do I need a ratio?

The site owner pretty much said no.

I never thought I ever NEEDED a ratio because I don't take anything back......nobody will share what I want....(Doors 12/12/70 soundboard)

And a ratio won't stop any attacks, any arguements or any resentments.



Dudogger doesn't need a ratio. If he posts frequently in the Lounge, he'll fit right in all over TTD.......hell, who knows, maybe he'll fit in so well, he'll be asked to be the "assistant cover mod".




SO..........Does anyone else need an explicit ratio?

Ask the site owner for one simple and final answer and use that quote as a signature. That ought to shut up anything but a personal attack.




Case closed............now what about them awful 'spider-bots' .....




______________________________________

Originally Posted by Spider_Web

Well, then you are calling some serious Led Zep collectors liars.

Originally Posted by U2Lynne

You wall-eyed apple-knocking pig-fuckers! You don't know shit!

[dcbullet]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...cution+complex

[freezer]

dc bullet -- this is not the word association thread.

We're discussing ratios here.


Did'ya get lost looking for the Lounge again????????



Well, don't go away empty-handed; here's some help with a word you're probably unfamiliar with.....

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=unique

[dcbullet]

Originally Posted by freezer

Well, don't go away empty-handed; here's some help with a word you're probably unfamiliar with.....

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=unique

God damn you got me there! None of the shows I contribute are unique at all.

[digital_rich]

Originally Posted by toys

meanwhile, the percentage of firewalled members currently on the tracker is around 40%

That's kind of misleading. Many times I have the red firewalled message when I'm
connected, even though my ports are properly forwarded.

[paddington]

Originally Posted by Powderfinger

Bro...anyone who doesn't know about your contributions to this site aren't worth fucking with...

screw 'em.

Now....gimmee, gimme, gimmee....

and much obliged!!!

why don't you two get a fucking room?

[paddington]

Originally Posted by dcbullet

God damn you got me there! None of the shows I contribute are unique at all.

When he's down, he just makes shit up so he can post.

[freezer]

Amazing, just discuss specific trolls and goddam if jameskg and dcbullet don't take the cue and chime in....

Originally Posted by jameskg

why don't you two get a fucking room?

Why don't you be nice for a change and try to add something to the discussion?

All you've done in this thread is troll.


Be nice and maybe you could get to be a 2nd Assistant Cover Mod, jameskg.