Re-encoded digital video

[AAR.oner]

i'm not for banning SA transfers entirely, yet...its still far more accessible and cost/time efficient for most, i know many tapers who still use them for seeding out their masters...but i can see the point when it comes to digi sat broadcasts...we should probly discuss that in staff

[i will say i don't record off of tv and i'd never buy a SA DVD recorder, so my knowledge re: the current technologies is a bit lacking...i do know there's far too many variations these days in broadcast streams/quality]

[scratchie]

Originally Posted by direwolf-pgh

i dont believe you can argue a video is lossy due to D/A converters..
if we go down that route then everything should be banned as lossy.
it just strikes me as unrealistic.

It's not because of the d/a conversion; it's because you're taking a compressed format, de-compressing it (to analog) and then re-compressing it. It's the same as if you played an MP3, then captured that analog audio stream and converted it back to MP3.

[vladsmythe]

Makes sense to me scratchmeister.

[direwolf-pgh]

Originally Posted by scratchie

It's not because of the d/a conversion; it's because you're taking a compressed format, de-compressing it (to analog) and then re-compressing it. It's the same as if you played an MP3, then captured that analog audio stream and converted it back to MP3.

i dont believe this analogy is correct. mpeg2 is compression by definition...
your statement makes it sound like they convert to divx and back..
this is not the case to my understanding. there is NO analog tuner being used..its a digital firewire/usb connection from source to burner

Originally Posted by vladsmythe

Makes sense to me scratchmeister.

another clue there is an issue with your statement.

[vladsmythe]

ZOINKERS!

[scratchie]

Originally Posted by direwolf-pgh

its a digital firewire/usb connection from source to burner

No, it's not. Go back and read the third post in this thread.

[direwolf-pgh]

Originally Posted by scratchie

No, it's not. Go back and read the third post in this thread.

sorry.. Im not speaking about that seed in particular.. I/we were speaking of standalone recorders in general.

I thought we were maybe it was just me.

[direwolf-pgh]

whats wrong with S-Video i dont understand your point scratchie.

this is not a 1080p seed - it matters not.

digital satellite box & HDTV..two very different things.

[scratchie]

Originally Posted by direwolf-pgh

whats wrong with S-Video i dont understand your point scratchie.

Obviously not. My point is that S-Video is still analog, and when you're receiving a digital transmission -- i.e., an MPEG-2 file -- there's no reason to convert it to analog and then convert it back to a larger, inferior MPEG-2 file.

this is not a 1080p seed - it matters not.

Maybe not to you, but it matters to some of us. By the same logic, you could say "This isn't a digital soundboard, what does it matter if I posted a version that was converted from MP3?"

digital satellite box & HDTV..two very different things.

No kidding, but there's still no reason to take the MPEG-2 file being transmitted via satellite, then convert it to analog, then convert it to a larger, inferior MPEG-2 file. I don't know how many times I can say the same thing.

[direwolf-pgh]

scratchie.. i dont know much, but i know you're wrong

S-Video, as most commonly implemented, carries 480i or 576i resolution video, i.e. standard definition video, but does not carry audio on the same cable.

there is no loss in the cable for the lines of resolution.

IF it was a HDTV broadcast (which you couldnt capture anyway due to DRM on satellite box), then converted to PAL... yeah, that could be considered lossy..i guess.

but that isnt the case, is it? its a PAL signal & its still a PAL signal.
there is no loss in the signal. S-video patch is fine for the task.

please prove me wrong please.

[scratchie]

Originally Posted by direwolf-pgh

please prove me wrong please.

Sorry, life's too short.

[vladsmythe]

Hey, don't drag me into this squabble. I just share my stuff. Nobody has to download it. It's their choice. My vids look okay to me, and so far people like to watch them. So I really don't care what tech people (who don't watch them) think.

[vladsmythe]

I'm sorry, but I don't think the concept of analogue tape to digital conversion should fall into a thread titled "Re-encoded digital video". I'm not re-encoding from tape, I'm encoding. There is a big difference. It seems any dummy would know that.

[pawel]

Originally Posted by direwolf-pgh

i dont believe you can argue a video is lossy due to D/A converters..

MPEG2 is lossy format, and as such any meddling in frame structure and bitrate must be done by re-compression and compression. It doesn't (much) matter if it is D>A>D or D>D.

if we go down that route then everything should be banned as lossy.

It is lossy but there is no other source unless we have Robin Hood representatives in all TV stations

Originally Posted by direwolf-pgh

is it possible for digital video or audio files to not be processed by D/A converters?

Jesus, man, read above: PVR and DVB cards.

[direwolf-pgh]

Originally Posted by pawel

MPEG2 is lossy format, and as such any meddling in frame structure and bitrate must be done by re-compression and compression. It doesn't (much) matter if it is D>A>D or D>D.


It is lossy but there is no other source unless we have Robin Hood representatives in all TV stations

Jesus, man, read above: PVR and DVB cards.

jesus, man what ? am i frustrating you ? so sorry.

all these points have already been made.. i dont believe you've read every post.

IMO this entire digital mumbojumbo is just that. a big waste of talk.
yeah...most everything in digital video is currently lossy at some point in the chain.

points we've gone over so far:

1. your MPEG files ...lossy
2. ac3..... lossy
3. D/A converters... eh, lossy kinda.. but not really.. but kinda.
4. there is ZERO signal quality lost transferring standard PAL via a S-Video cable
5. give it 3-5 more years & then we talk/trade lossless video
6. 72mm film still pwns.
7. my steak dinner fucking rocked
8. I forget what eight was for.
9. Nine..Nine for my lost GOD
10. ten..ten..ten. TEN! For everything! everything! everything! everything !!