Should we ban thoughtless leechers?

[Cornelious Jerome Garcia Oppenheimer]

Originally Posted by dcbullet

Excellent post Bill.

That makes maybe 3 out of 1600.

Originally Posted by daddyrayoll

I prefer his posts about undies

I am the 2002 Golden Panty Award Winner.

[daddyray]

thanks BK that's better

[freezer]

Originally Posted by bill_kate

Do you grow your own food? How about your own weed? Build your own car? Paint all of your own artwork?

Instant gratification does not always equate to laziness. The internet has given all of us the ability to get some things quickly, be it shows, information, airline tickets, porn, or casual encounters with strangers

Yes, some will always exploit that. But stating that as a whole bit torrent is not good because of those few. I just don't understand. I see plenty of ratios on bt sites that show there are still people that give very generously, and kind enough to explain it to newbies in a way that is not self-righteous or attacking them.

I also can't grasp how someone can say that this medium for trading/exchanging is bad. I used to go through a boatload of bubble mailers, postage, and in essence a lot of resources (postal workers salaries, gas, vehicles, CDR's, sometimes planes I imagine) just to get a nice set of SHN's to someone on the east coast or out of the country. Now, I can serve them and access them in a much more eco friendly way IMO.



Disagree. I have been a 'real' trader for a very long time, before online trading. I have fostered more friendships and been a part of, and help create communities that people choose the level they wish to participate in. If someone wants to become a part of any online community, it is rather simple and easier than hoping that you may have something that is worthy to the person that holding the show you are interested in. Before Sharingthegroove, I had a limited Jazz collection, and I love prince and that snail mail community was almost impossible to get into and I had a hard time even getting a couple of shows. I think if anything it broke up the elitist trading circles and brought a lot of great shows out of woodwork.



Once again, big generalization. I have been duped a handful of times trading with 'real' traders. Snail Mail leechers are out there too.

I think it actually has brought the hobby of taping to a whole new level. From access to information about equipment to hints/tricks for getting the best out of whatever gear you have. We have a whole sub-forum here dedicated to the hobby of taping. I have seen quite a few people post from their initial questions about equipment, taping, seeding all the way through purchasing the equipment and then eventually posting their first show and watching them get better, posting more shows, and love their new hobby.

Nice rant, Bill.... still, it's only your opinion.




-----------------

You talk the talk, but have you ever walked the walk?

Still, after all that -- it just doesn't seem that anything ever got you to go out and make any new recordings to add to the trade pool.......

[LeifH12345]

Originally Posted by JoeMgdi

As a thoughtless seeder, I have determined that I have little to say and that the opinions here are of low or no value.

>

Originally Posted by rspencer

>

[sleepless]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeMgdi
As a thoughtless seeder, I have determined that I have little to say and that the opinions here are of low or no value.

>

Quote:
Originally Posted by rspencer


>

[Cornelious Jerome Garcia Oppenheimer]

Originally Posted by freezer

Nice rant, Bill.... still, it's only your opinion.

The whole thread is opinion, captain obvious

-----------------

You talk the talk, but have you ever walked the walk?

Still, after all that -- it just doesn't seem that anything ever got you to go out and make any new recordings to add to the trade pool.......

Taping is not for everyone. I personally need to, and do, stay away from any taping I see going on. I get too into the shows myself and plan to stay that way. I like to dance and make noise. Wouldn't make for very good recordings.

[freezer]

Originally Posted by bill_kate

The whole thread is opinion, captain obvious

Correct, opinions are like assholes....everybody's got one.

However when you share your opinion on "hoarding" and then just as quickly admit that you refuse to even try to make any recordings, then in my opinion, your credibility got flushed down the crapper, in reference to this hobby.

People who mouth off about "Hoarding" and and also refuse to ever contribute to the trade pool should have no right to mouth off.

You wanna talk the talk, but you refuse to walk the walk?

Are you really serious?

What makes you think you deserve to partake of The Little Red Hen's wheat, when you refuse to help harvest, threshing, milling, or baking the bread?

Originally Posted by bill_kate

Taping is not for everyone. I personally need to, and do, stay away from any taping I see going on. I get too into the shows myself and plan to stay that way. I like to dance and make noise. Wouldn't make for very good recordings.

Lame, that's a really lame reply. Sounds like you're already defeated.

Maybe you should learn to take what's offered without demanding anything... instead of rationalizing a truckload of manure there, Major Pain.



If you want to make any noise about "hoarding", then maybe first you need to consider learning to try to give something back.

Stop dancing for ONE show and get proactive toward "YOUR" community.

Or like many tapers already have done....you just might consider paying it forward....sound like a plan?


Oh, and I do understand "sharing", but I also see you sharing your hypocracy here.

Or, hey, consider refraining from ever making remarks about "hoarding" when you absolutely refuse to do anything but take.



And Bill, I like you, really.....people talk bad about you, but I like you.

[Cornelious Jerome Garcia Oppenheimer]

Originally Posted by freezer

Correct, opinions are like assholes....everybody's got one.

However when you share your opinion on "hoarding" and then just as quickly admit that you refuse to even try to make any recordings, then in my opinion, your credibility got flushed down the crapper, in reference to this hobby.

People who mouth off about "Hoarding" and and also refuse to ever contribute to the trade pool should have no right to mouth off.

I will continue to mouth off about all mundane topics, as will you.

You wanna talk the talk, but you refuse to walk the walk?

Are you really serious?

What makes you think you deserve to partake of The Little Red Hen's wheat, when you refuse to help harvest, threshing, milling, or baking the bread?

I guess i feel "entitled' to everything.

Seriously though, I have contributed to the community for some time. Maybe not taping, but I have given none-the-less. I know you know that, but apparently if you do not tape, it is not contributing in your opinion.

Lame, that's a really lame reply. Sounds like you're already defeated.

Maybe you should learn to take what's offered without demanding anything... instead of rationalizing a truckload of manure there, Major Pain.

I merely stated how I felt about the hoarding and waving it front of people, I have tried to say that a number of times. I make no demands, and have not made them in the past for people to share anything they have. But when the topic comes up as it always has, I will continue to ask What is the motivation for talking about the hours of great recordings one may possess, quickly followed with but I will never trade/share them

If you want to make any noise about "hoarding", then maybe first you need to consider learning to try to give something back.

again...I have contributed to the community for some time. Maybe not taping, but I have given none-the-less. I know you know that, but apparently if you do not tape, it is not contributing in your opinion.

Stop dancing for ONE show and get proactive toward "YOUR" community.

um....no. I prefer to be proactive in other ways. Like trying to pry hoarded shows from tapers hands.

Or like many tapers already have done....you just might consider paying it forward....sound like a plan?

I feel as if I have payed it forward, from way back to the AOL rose garden days and offering up many freebies & B-P's to actively vining and branching for trees before bit torrent to giving life to the vine section at STG and spending copius time on that site to spending considerable amounts of time raising this site from the ashes of STG. I will continue to do so, in my non taping fashion.

Oh, and I do understand "sharing", but I also see you sharing your hypocracy here.

Or, hey, consider refraining from ever making remarks about "hoarding" when you absolutely refuse to do anything but take.

again....I will continue to mouth off about all mundane topics, as will you

And Bill, I like you, really.....people talk bad about you, but I like you.

Right back at you.

[freezer]

Originally Posted by bill_kate

I will continue to mouth off about all mundane topics, as will you.

I guess i feel "entitled' to everything.

Including my contempt on this issue, OK?


Your greed is showing through again, Bill.....

Originally Posted by bill_kate

What is the motivation for talking about the hours of great recordings one may possess, quickly followed with but I will never trade/share them

Well, maybe you've had a hard time understanding this: "It's none of your fucking business, Bill."

Maybe that's what's the problem, could it be that you don't know how to mind your business even after you're told to go away.



Or maybe you could have shaken something loose, IF you had something unique to offer in return, something you taped???

I guess you'll never know, huh?

Originally Posted by bill_kate

again...I have contributed to the community for some time. Maybe not taping, but I have given none-the-less. I know you know that, but apparently if you do not tape, it is not contributing in your opinion.

Jeezus, don't break your arm patting yourself on the back.

This taper thinks you're just a parasite, with the attitude you're exhibiting.

I'm sure I ain't the only one to feel like that.

Originally Posted by bill_kate

..um....no. I prefer to be proactive in other ways. Like trying to pry hoarded shows from tapers hands.

Well, I'm absolutely delighted for you, but this taper thinks you should pull your head outta 1968.... Or where-ever else it is that precludes you from understanding just how greedy and myopic you've come across in the last few days.


What I see is that the bus left and you didn't make it.


Personally, the disdain I feel toward this sort of mindset will preclude me from ever listening to that Grateful Dead crap again.

Best of luck to you, but anything I might have taped of those snoozers is at the bottom of the list when it comes to offering anything.

However, as I said many times previously, I trade... And the people I've traded with aren't interested in that mindless noodling either. Sorry (no I not really, I just don't care.)

Originally Posted by bill_kate

I feel as if I have payed it forward, from way back to the AOL rose garden days and offering up many freebies & B-P's to actively vining and branching for trees before bit torrent to giving life to the vine section at STG and spending copius time on that site to spending considerable amounts of time raising this site from the ashes of STG. I will continue to do so, in my non taping fashion.

In-breeding -- as you described -- just breeds more inbreeding.

There was a reason STG died the death, and a very, very, very, VERY large percentage of the TTD couldn't care less about that old news.

Your mileage may vary, especially since that 1968 VW bus you're driving can't get uphill any longer.

Originally Posted by bill_kate

again....I will continue to mouth off about all mundane topics, as will you....

Riiight....... You tell 'em Major Pain, sing it loud and clear, all the while you're standing alone in the cold rain and snow and preaching to a diminishing choir of similar minded parasites.


It's 40 years on now, Jerry's as dead as all fucking billy-hell, he's copped the last heroin he's ever gonna fix-up -- and you've yet to do anything proactive towards your "community" to keep it from dying steadily, no matter how many times you pat yourself on the back.



Your "entitlement" issues are a disgrace, not a goddam badge of honor.

Originally Posted by bill_kate

Right back at you.

BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-oh, you sure told me, shucks..... Major.....



If you'd like to continue this, let's take it to the taper's forum, shall we?

Let's leave this thread to all "ratio police" to get back to sneering at vlad's numbers, OK?

We can start a new thread there and let's see if anyone there salutes you, Bill.

[dementrium]

Originally Posted by nameloc01

Torrenting=not good.

-It enables and encourages the "instant gratification" mentality.

I get a lot of instant gratification with my right hand, and man, is she good. Better than her less skilled sister, the left hand.

Torrenting is also a very good thing. I wonder if, tech speaking, torrent is the last and final word on distributed file sharing, or if some new revolutionary approach will be developed over the next few years.




to self

[freezer]

Originally Posted by dementrium

I get a lot of instant gratification with my right hand, and man, is she good. Better than her less skilled sister, the left hand.

Well, at least you have something to do while patiently waiting for a train that isn't gonna be pulling into the station.

Originally Posted by dementrium

Torrenting is also a very good thing.

YOUR opinion.

Others feel differently.

The mileage varies, don't it though?

For every positive you see in making music trading more impersonal, there are the same number of negatives.

(For example, not forcing collectors to at least considering to add something new and unique to the trade pool for every something they take. Consider the number of shows NEVER recorded by giving out free rides to anyone with the means to grab and go.)

Originally Posted by dementrium

I wonder if, tech speaking, torrent is the last and final word on distributed file sharing, or if some new revolutionary approach will be developed over the next few years.

to self

Garbage in, garbage out.... (lying about lineage, hit and run collectors, passing around high gen copies because it's just too easy to grab and run, "re-masters" of high gen crap copies --because they're from "silver pressed bootlegs" -- supplanting low gens or master copies ....ect etc etc)


Garbage in, garbage out....

New delivery systems don't ensure that what you grabbed is actually what some good "seeder" says it is.

New delivery systems don't ensure the best version, just newer and quicker forms of instant gratification of garbage copies also.

In the almost 5 years that I've been supplying TTD with copies from my master tapes, I'm noticing a new trend: "good" collectors re-mastering my tapes and fucking up their remaster, then circulating it without all the pertinent info.

The NRPS 1976-05-30 recording I made and had offered at TTD first is now making the rounds in an altered form, that is now corrupted.

And that corrupt copy is supplanting the original unblemished master.

Imagine that: someone had to 'monkey' with a master tape for NO other reason than to put their name on it.

A different torrent site is now passing around an mp3 version of something that was first offered here from my master in lossless format.

Imagine that: someone took one of my masters from this site, converted it to mp3, then someone converted that back into analog, then someone turned that back into a digital format.

I eagerly await that version to make the rounds here.

Garbage in, garbage out..... but at least someone else got to add their name to the recording as the "re-master-er" while removing the taper's name and other info.


Don't you just love it? Garbage in, garbage out.

[daddyray]

I feel entitled to the opinions of others

[dementrium]

Originally Posted by freezer

New delivery systems don't ensure that what you grabbed is actually what some good "seeder" says it is.

New delivery systems don't ensure the best version, just newer and quicker forms of instant gratification of garbage copies also.

I was referring to distributed file sharing in general. Old school tape sharing doesn't doesn't guarantee so-called quality or lineage accuracy. The person lying/bluffing can do it on a hand-written paper as well as on a message forum. The only one difference is the media.

[freezer]

Originally Posted by dementrium

I was referring to distributed file sharing in general. Old school tape sharing doesn't doesn't guarantee so-called quality or lineage accuracy. The person lying/bluffing can do it on a hand-written paper as well as on a message forum. The only one difference is the media.

That's true, Jack, it's just as easy for some unethical trader to fabricate lineage on paper.

However, thanks to torrents, it's easier for you to fuck over 1,000 random people in a fraction of the time that it used to take you to fuck over one person you know via snail mail.

Put up a torrent tonight and give out your bullshit lineage, and by tomorrow evening you can fuck over literally 10,000 unsuspecting collectors.

Then as you watch it mushroom when the torrent is snatched and then re-upped at dime, Lossless Legs, zomb, planet bootleg, tapecity, hungercity, etree, MOTB, ad infinitum.

Then figure how many more collectors you can fuck over as the garbage hits the torrent-blogs like "Quality bootlegs" or "The Pharaoh's Den", etc etc etc....

You can guarantee that a specific recording will NEVER circulate with correct lineage thanks to a torrent.


As you well know, we can prove it, Demmy. Would you like to help conduct that experiment?




There are two differences to snail mail trading in that :

#1. Trading between tapers generally cut the possibility of bad lineage. *Didn't erase the possibility, as I can attest to, but it made it easier to rectify* (I could have made sure that snail mail traders knew that someone in the KISS community had lied about the proper lineage to the July 16, 1974 KISS in Baton Rouge recording. Thanks to the torrent sites, it had snowballed to proportions that will never be able to be rectified.... oh well.....)

#2. It was easier to halt bad lineage, because many tapers knew who was taping in other areas or territories. It was easier to learn who had actually taped something and therefore easier to acquire a 1st gen or a low gen copy, or to out the liar and oust them from trading.

In the land of the torrent, these liars are rewarded.


There's NO guarantees anywhere in life, Dr. Mehoff, ever....but at least the possibilities for being duped were significantly diminished if and when two tapers were trading. (Especially IF they were planning to trade again together later. Why bite the hand that feeds you?)



And I'm glad to see you getting along so delightfully with your own 2 hands. At least you can finally make love to someone who might like you.

[daddyray]

Originally Posted by freezer

And I'm glad to see you getting along so delightfully with your own 2 hands. At least you can finally make love to someone who might like you.

operative word: Might