Is there an explicit ratio policy here?

[todger]

Excuse me if this has been answered already, but I've had a look around and can't see an obvious statement/announcement: is there a ratio policy in operation on The Traders' Den? *



* apostrophe after the "s" because there is more than one trader ;-)

no ratio enforcement here.

lots of ratio predjudice amongst members here though, despite that policy. so if you've got a poor ratio things like requests for reseeds (for example) may be ignored by others.

[dcbullet]

"You better keep a fucking good ratio!" explicit enough!?

[todger]

Originally Posted by dcbullet

"You better keep a fucking good ratio!" explicit enough!?

Looks like that correspondence course in repartee wasn't such a bad investment after all ;-)

[paddington]

Originally Posted by todger

is there a ratio policy in operation on The Traders' Den?

Give what you take.
If you can give more, great. Do that.

[europhan]

Originally Posted by toys

so if you've got a poor ratio things like requests for reseeds (for example) may be ignored by others.

If I see a request for a reseed of a show I have, the first thing I do before any other consideration about the request, is look at the person's share ratio. If I don't like what I see, it gets no further consideration.

Originally Posted by europhan

If I see a request for a reseed of a show I have, the first thing I do before any other consideration about the request, is look at the person's share ratio. If I don't like what I see, it gets no further consideration.

you should really click the persons username for a quick look at their profile to see if they have started any Vines or offered up any B&P's, both of which are listed on the users profile. lots of those people who have poor internet connections share back that way. or consider if they have a ton of posts in the Technobabble Forum where they're constantly helping out people new to bit torrent. or if they're a taper who has never torrented a show and has a zero ratio but has mailed out a huge pile of his own personal master recordings to others to torrent for him. or... well you get the idea i hope. there is a reason why we don't enforce ratios here. far far too many other ways to share.

[dcbullet]

Originally Posted by toys

or if they're a taper who has never torrented a show and has a zero ratio but has mailed out a huge pile of his own personal master recordings to others to torrent for him

[paddington]

who could he be talking about....

[U2Lynne]

Well, it sounds like this question has been pretty much answered. Basically, we just ask that you share in whatever way you can. Some people go Vine the shows they download or B&P them. Other people are very good at making cover for the shows. Others donate, others help out in Technobabble, others send out shows to other users to torrent, and then others just try their best to always be able to open a window on a show. This is a Trading site, not just a torrent site, so just go out and share.

[jellybeard999]

Please remember places like this only survive based on the community. I personally have let my ratio drop (lots of downloading recently, no time to upload) but I'm now going on a seeding campaign

[dcbullet]

Originally Posted by jellybeard999

but I'm now going on a seeding campaign

I think that was more of a skirmish.

[Dudogger]

Posted earlier today in response to yet another narrow-minded, ratio-fueled attack by someone whose sense of sharing and community has long-since escaped him. Hopefully, it will foster a little discussion regarding the rather distasteful class system that has resulted from the unnecessary use and public display of personal ratios by this site:

*******************************************************

I guess I've now read so many of the baseless, ratio-related, pseudo-flame jobs that it's time to relay on to anyone who reads this a few observations I've made and thoughts I’ve had, about TTD-style "sharing" - especially to those of you who appear to be quite mathematically and cognitively challenged, and to those who are doing their very best to contribute, and yet still have to wade regularly through this kind of self-righteous pablum, just to be able to enjoy the music.

1) The arbitrary 1.00 ratio guideline is just that - a ratio and a guideline, and quite arbitrary. Here, ratio means upload volume divided by download volume, without any regard to individual bandwidth, drive capacity, etc. It is only a target, not a requirement, and one that is not readily attainable to many users who, nonetheless, still contribute in a very positive way. Thus TTD's suggestion that those who can't achieve 1.00 should try to B&P, vine, and so on. I imagine that a large number of participants, like me, are doing just that, yet it doesn't serve to stifle these impotent flamers much, does it? One yahoo recently boasted to me that his ratio was better than mine back when he used a laptop with a 56K modem. To which I ask - So what is your point? I mean, really, at 56K it likely took him a month to download one show. Then with a (hypothetical) 3.75 u/l divided by a 4.20 d/l, I guess I'd have to agree that his 0.89 ratio was better than mine. What a profound revelation that guy had, eh? So, a high ratio is really fairly meaningless, unless it is supported by a healthy upload volume. Without any regard to download volume, your absolute uploads are the true measure of one's contribution to any trading community, and not some poorly conceived, often-abused, arbitrary ratio threshold.

2) Occasionally, one downloads a show that is not worth keeping, burning, or sharing (due to poor quality), and in the user's opinion, shouldn't further pollute the trading pool by way of continued uploading. If one were then to delete that show/torrent, one might only have obtained a show-specific .17 ratio, for example. This can't be recouped for that deleted show, and that .17 ratio becomes a detriment to the user's overall ratio (as tracked by TTD), when in fact, he/she is doing the community a small favor by not enabling the spread of a crappy show. Other times, after a torrent's seeds/leeches drop to 0, and remains there for a number of days, that torrent is likewise deleted, though its individual ratio may still be well less than 1.00, but it is still available to meet reseed and B&P requests. Unfortunately, the typical flamer would prefer to spin that as being the horrible leecher "taking as much as possible, while giving next to nothing", which to many of us is much like Dubya saying "we've got to attack them there so they won't attack us here". Sorry, but we just know better. And, once someone seeds or uploads a show, it's out there, and the seeder has gotten his/her jollies, quite justifiably, for having offered it up. Various people then tap into that torrent and share the obtained music in their preferred, individual ways - there are indeed many shades of gray in this world. So in this format, it's not about taking versus giving back (equally) so much as it is about using current technology to acquire audio and video from a wealth of different sources, then redistributing that music, in various different ways, to other people who maybe aren't so fortunate or capable. Expected giving is just not a very cool thing, no matter how you look at it. It's kind of like feeling obligated to tithe 10% of your meager income to the local church, merely because that's their expectation of you and everybody does it, rather than because it’s something you freely elect to do or even can physically manage to do.

3) Some folks have great upload/download bandwidth. Good for them. Some do not, so they acquire what they can, when they can. Some, like me, have a pretty good download speed, but a very restrictive upload cap (mine is limited to about 28K, less than 10% of my maximum download speed). So any time my BT client is running, I am uploading at my maximum capacity, regardless of the number of torrents I have uploading at any given time. If I were to stop all of my downloading in order to capitulate to one selfish moron’s attempted browbeating of me to raise my ratio by uploading only, then guess what? I’m still only uploading at 28K, so that my rate (speed) of contribution to other downloaders remains exactly the same. And, I've been running nearly 24/7 since January 07. (Sorry, flamers, I just can't afford T1 right now in order to keep you happy.) Stopping the downloading, therefore, serves no rational, contributory purpose at all – it just curtails the acquisition and redistribution of new music, but in no way speeds the overall upload process. "Looking back to help others" (with reseed requests), while sounding noble, also corrects nothing ratio-wise because the upload rate remains the same no matter what combination of torrents I might choose to upload to (today I have 11 active ones). Just to illustrate how arbitrary and abused the ratio issue is, and how truly dense and cyber-power-hungry some of these non-mod gooberbrains can be: One challenged user recently had the gall to dictate to me that I should stop downloading until my ratio rises to at least 50%. To which I must ask – Based on what published mandate? And – Who died and left you dog-catcher, eh? Or - Is this some new standard you’ve just now conceived of and applied all by your smug little self? Impressive. So glad to hear it. Thanks again for the suggestion. Not.

4) If one were to halt downloads in order to increase ratio, that would mean one has temporarily stopped accumulating new material. Torrents die, such that by doing so you’d also increase the chances of missing out on one or more good shows as a result, such that you’d perhaps occasionally request a reseed, such that some other mindless flamer might well then decide to again stretch his puny ego by snooping into your stats and harping on you and your ratio. What fun!! So, I say to anyone reading this: People upload because it’s their hobby and they enjoy it. Other people download because it’s their hobby and they enjoy it. Still other people B&P like crazy, or simply burn and give away discs to special, grateful people who love the music, but don’t have the time, interest, and/or capability to download and burn it themselves - because it’s their hobby and they enjoy it! TTD is but one small facet on the face of a much larger trading/giving community concept that kind of mirrors the old Rastafarian philosophy of “from those that have, to those that have not”. That is, you should endeavor to share what you take, where you can, when you can, and with whomever you can, without any regard to some other person’s rate of sharing or giving, or their misguided expectations of you. This is the true spirit of “sharing the music”, and TTD would be a much better, kinder place without the few demented flamers who seem to believe otherwise, and routinely spoil it for everyone else, just for their squeaky little voices to be heard. I think that tossing out the ratio concept altogether would be highly constructive in removing an unfortunate opportunity for some sad souls to unfairly judge so many others who are just trying their best, and allow people of all shades to merge into the mosaic, in whatever fashion their individual preferences will support, effectively eliminating all this phony and unnecessary hierarchy garbage. That's what freedom is.

Happy Trading and Happy Sharing


P.S. - If you're a reader who keeps getting flamed by puffed-up jokers who have nothing better to do, no matter your effort to upload within the constraints of your particular system and/or budget, please jump in and say what you think. It's important for you to be heard rather than allowing that ratio flamer shit to, in any way, intimidate you into apologizing for your numbers. These people should be wholly ashamed, just like those now running our country (into the ground). Every kilobyte uploaded is a positive contribution from you to this system and community, regardless of what you receive from it, and as a recipient of some really good stuff, I, my friends, my family, and many receiving acquaintances are extremely thankful!

[U2Lynne]

Dudogger, why is it that you think we should not show share ratios here? Do you download from the other big torrent sites like DIME or Tapecity or Lossless Legs or ....., cuz all the major torrent sites that I know of will show your ratio. Actually, they do even more, they ban for ratios less than .25 (some for even less than .5). It really is not unusual to show ratios at these sites. If the showing of ratio issue bothers you, I do know that etree does not show them, so that may be a torrent site that you will want to check out.

If you go to a user's profile page, if a person has offered B&Ps or Vines, we list those, along with shows they have offered through torrents. Keeping a good ratio, B&Ping, Vining, offering up new shows here, those are all are different ways for a person to share what they have and help out the community.

You may want to consider that maybe you are downloading more than you really need to. I have an upload cap that is a bit less than twice what yours is. In fact, if a poll were to be taken, I would say the majority of users will fall between 28-52 for their upload rates. It's a pretty standard upload rate. I've suggested to other people that if their ratio is getting low, then they may want to find an download buddy. Find someone with similar tastes in music and each download only half the shows you normally do and then copy and send along the shows to each other every month (or two, whatever you agree on). That will halve the amount you download, but at the same time keep your upload the same and you will end up doubling your upload 'rate' per month.

Just another note.... if you look in Technobabble, you will see some posts about users who have gotten notices from their ISPs for downloading 'too much' (and that amount never seems to be clear). If you have downloaded 500 GB since January, then you may want to slow down a bit and also look up your terms of service. As I said, the ISPs don't seem to want to define what 'too much' is, but if I recall, it seems to be somewhere in the 60-80GB a month range which is less than what your rate is.

Originally Posted by Dudogger

Posted earlier today in response to yet another narrow-minded, ratio-fueled attack by someone whose sense of sharing and community has long-since escaped him. Hopefully, it will foster a little discussion regarding the rather distasteful class system that has resulted from the unnecessary use and public display of personal ratios by this site:

*******************************************************

I guess I've now read so many of the baseless, ratio-related, pseudo-flame jobs that it's time to relay on to anyone who reads this a few observations I've made and thoughts I’ve had, about TTD-style "sharing" - especially to those of you who appear to be quite mathematically and cognitively challenged, and to those who are doing their very best to contribute, and yet still have to wade regularly through this kind of self-righteous pablum, just to be able to enjoy the music.

1) The arbitrary 1.00 ratio guideline is just that - a ratio and a guideline, and quite arbitrary. Here, ratio means upload volume divided by download volume, without any regard to individual bandwidth, drive capacity, etc. It is only a target, not a requirement, and one that is not readily attainable to many users who, nonetheless, still contribute in a very positive way. Thus TTD's suggestion that those who can't achieve 1.00 should try to B&P, vine, and so on. I imagine that a large number of participants, like me, are doing just that, yet it doesn't serve to stifle these impotent flamers much, does it? One yahoo recently boasted to me that his ratio was better than mine back when he used a laptop with a 56K modem. To which I ask - So what is your point? I mean, really, at 56K it likely took him a month to download one show. Then with a (hypothetical) 3.75 u/l divided by a 4.20 d/l, I guess I'd have to agree that his 0.89 ratio was better than mine. What a profound revelation that guy had, eh? So, a high ratio is really fairly meaningless, unless it is supported by a healthy upload volume. Without any regard to download volume, your absolute uploads are the true measure of one's contribution to any trading community, and not some poorly conceived, often-abused, arbitrary ratio threshold.

2) Occasionally, one downloads a show that is not worth keeping, burning, or sharing (due to poor quality), and in the user's opinion, shouldn't further pollute the trading pool by way of continued uploading. If one were then to delete that show/torrent, one might only have obtained a show-specific .17 ratio, for example. This can't be recouped for that deleted show, and that .17 ratio becomes a detriment to the user's overall ratio (as tracked by TTD), when in fact, he/she is doing the community a small favor by not enabling the spread of a crappy show. Other times, after a torrent's seeds/leeches drop to 0, and remains there for a number of days, that torrent is likewise deleted, though its individual ratio may still be well less than 1.00, but it is still available to meet reseed and B&P requests. Unfortunately, the typical flamer would prefer to spin that as being the horrible leecher "taking as much as possible, while giving next to nothing", which to many of us is much like Dubya saying "we've got to attack them there so they won't attack us here". Sorry, but we just know better. And, once someone seeds or uploads a show, it's out there, and the seeder has gotten his/her jollies, quite justifiably, for having offered it up. Various people then tap into that torrent and share the obtained music in their preferred, individual ways - there are indeed many shades of gray in this world. So in this format, it's not about taking versus giving back (equally) so much as it is about using current technology to acquire audio and video from a wealth of different sources, then redistributing that music, in various different ways, to other people who maybe aren't so fortunate or capable. Expected giving is just not a very cool thing, no matter how you look at it. It's kind of like feeling obligated to tithe 10% of your meager income to the local church, merely because that's their expectation of you and everybody does it, rather than because it’s something you freely elect to do or even can physically manage to do.

3) Some folks have great upload/download bandwidth. Good for them. Some do not, so they acquire what they can, when they can. Some, like me, have a pretty good download speed, but a very restrictive upload cap (mine is limited to about 28K, less than 10% of my maximum download speed). So any time my BT client is running, I am uploading at my maximum capacity, regardless of the number of torrents I have uploading at any given time. If I were to stop all of my downloading in order to capitulate to one selfish moron’s attempted browbeating of me to raise my ratio by uploading only, then guess what? I’m still only uploading at 28K, so that my rate (speed) of contribution to other downloaders remains exactly the same. And, I've been running nearly 24/7 since January 07. (Sorry, flamers, I just can't afford T1 right now in order to keep you happy.) Stopping the downloading, therefore, serves no rational, contributory purpose at all – it just curtails the acquisition and redistribution of new music, but in no way speeds the overall upload process. "Looking back to help others" (with reseed requests), while sounding noble, also corrects nothing ratio-wise because the upload rate remains the same no matter what combination of torrents I might choose to upload to (today I have 11 active ones). Just to illustrate how arbitrary and abused the ratio issue is, and how truly dense and cyber-power-hungry some of these non-mod gooberbrains can be: One challenged user recently had the gall to dictate to me that I should stop downloading until my ratio rises to at least 50%. To which I must ask – Based on what published mandate? And – Who died and left you dog-catcher, eh? Or - Is this some new standard you’ve just now conceived of and applied all by your smug little self? Impressive. So glad to hear it. Thanks again for the suggestion. Not.

4) If one were to halt downloads in order to increase ratio, that would mean one has temporarily stopped accumulating new material. Torrents die, such that by doing so you’d also increase the chances of missing out on one or more good shows as a result, such that you’d perhaps occasionally request a reseed, such that some other mindless flamer might well then decide to again stretch his puny ego by snooping into your stats and harping on you and your ratio. What fun!! So, I say to anyone reading this: People upload because it’s their hobby and they enjoy it. Other people download because it’s their hobby and they enjoy it. Still other people B&P like crazy, or simply burn and give away discs to special, grateful people who love the music, but don’t have the time, interest, and/or capability to download and burn it themselves - because it’s their hobby and they enjoy it! TTD is but one small facet on the face of a much larger trading/giving community concept that kind of mirrors the old Rastafarian philosophy of “from those that have, to those that have not”. That is, you should endeavor to share what you take, where you can, when you can, and with whomever you can, without any regard to some other person’s rate of sharing or giving, or their misguided expectations of you. This is the true spirit of “sharing the music”, and TTD would be a much better, kinder place without the few demented flamers who seem to believe otherwise, and routinely spoil it for everyone else, just for their squeaky little voices to be heard. I think that tossing out the ratio concept altogether would be highly constructive in removing an unfortunate opportunity for some sad souls to unfairly judge so many others who are just trying their best, and allow people of all shades to merge into the mosaic, in whatever fashion their individual preferences will support, effectively eliminating all this phony and unnecessary hierarchy garbage. That's what freedom is.

Happy Trading and Happy Sharing


P.S. - If you're a reader who keeps getting flamed by puffed-up jokers who have nothing better to do, no matter your effort to upload within the constraints of your particular system and/or budget, please jump in and say what you think. It's important for you to be heard rather than allowing that ratio flamer shit to, in any way, intimidate you into apologizing for your numbers. These people should be wholly ashamed, just like those now running our country (into the ground). Every kilobyte uploaded is a positive contribution from you to this system and community, regardless of what you receive from it, and as a recipient of some really good stuff, I, my friends, my family, and many receiving acquaintances are extremely thankful!

nice ratio