Standalone FLAC player to connect to HiFi

[GRC]

Has anyone looked at or bought a standalone FLAC player or similar to connect up to their HiFi system rather than playing back on PC?

I'm looking at other forums where there's mention of Squeezebox, Olive 4HD, and a variety of other high-end units. Found most of them at www.ripcaster.co.uk

Is anyone using anything like this?

[saltman]

I have an Acer Revo 3610 that connects to my stereo. It works very nice.

However, if I had it to do all over again I would build a faster shuttle box or similar micro-atx htpc. for just a little more money. It would give you more power for the video side of things.

[oxymoron]

I have an Acer Revo 3610 that connects to my stereo. It works very nice..

only 16Bit or 24Bit sound output?

[oxymoron]

Logitech Squeezebox™ Touch
up to 24Bit/96kHz !!!

[Scott]

Many options here:

http://flac.sourceforge.net/links.html#hardware

[saltman]

only 16Bit or 24Bit sound output?24 bit via hdmi.

ar3700 is the new one with the ion2 chip in it. The initial benchmarks on other systems were lower than the normal ion I haven't looked up the ones in this model but it was supposed to be faster.

[oxymoron]

24 bit via hdmi.

ar3700 is the new one with the ion2 chip in it. The initial benchmarks on other systems were lower than the normal ion I haven't looked up the ones in this model but it was supposed to be faster.

cool, much better as some of the standalone palyers, they have often a miserable menue. and a big fuck, after change from dvd to flac sound you must go into the menue
a pc is much better:clap:

[Miles Long]

I'll put a couple flac shows on my blackberry and hook it up to my stereo.

[GRC]

My definition of standalone FLAC player doesn't include laptops or desktop PCs......

The PC stays in the study, standalone pieces of HiFi kit go in the music room....

[saltman]

My definition of standalone FLAC player doesn't include laptops or desktop PCs......

The PC stays in the study, standalone pieces of HiFi kit go in the music room....If you are going to hook it up to the network, I don't understand you hesitation with computers. If burned discs, I don't understand at all.

[rspencer]

I actually plan to buy a desktop just for media. You can get one so cheap, why pay just as much for a dedicated stand-alone piece of hardware?

[Scott]

The key piece of equipment when using a computer to play music files over your system is a DAC. Computers just aren't made for music alone therefor the converters within the system suck. Spend the money and get a DAC. it will make the experience a bit better.

[sysoverload]

most newer HTPCs have a digital coaxial or fiber optic ouput, so you can go straight from your PC to your digital pre or digital receiver, and use their built in DACs. If you don't have a preamp or receiver with digital inputs, then an external DAC is the best way to go.

[Owy]

I just bought a Logitech Squeezebox Duet, for this very thing- getting fed up with so many cd-rs about the place.

I have to say that although it was a bit fiddly to set up, it works fantastically- and at the price is extremely good value. It's absolutely ideal for listening to downloads and tape and vinyl transfers via a NAS/external drive, when you want serious audio performance as opposed to naff PC audio reproduction.

I am now considering getting a Cambridge Audio DAC Magic to go with it, to upgrade the digi analogue converter performance.

[oxymoron]

I see the ease of use in the pc.
For high demand but you should work only with ASIO drivers.
an external sound card is of course better than a built-in (HF disorders).
my playersoft for flac/wav are cPlay
http://cicsmemoryplayer.com/index.php?n=CPlay.Features

with the new versions of some logitech´s you can also play 24Bit/96kHz very nice!

[GRC]

I actually plan to buy a desktop just for media. You can get one so cheap, why pay just as much for a dedicated stand-alone piece of hardware?

Because I don't want a desktop, with fan noise etc in my listening room

Because I don't want a monitor in my listening room

Because I don't have a PC in the listening room at the moment, and I want to keep it that way, with a standalone FLAC player (or possibly something like a Squeezebox with a fanless outboard drive)

[sysoverload]

I've heard great things about the Dune Player, and their product line of universal players.

I could be wrong, but I think most of these function similar to a DVD player in that you need some kind of monitor to navigate through menus and files. Even the squeezebox has a small monitor built in.

[Scott]

I think a monitor of some sort is mandatory to run a FLAC standalone system.

I can see not wanting to have a PC system that occupies so much space but there are plenty of options when it comes to digital music.

[GRC]

By 'monitor' I mean something of 14" and above, i.e. a PC monitor. There's already one TV in there, that's enough.

A small screen built into a standalone player is acceptable.

[sysoverload]

Your TV could be used as the monitor for the on-screen menus of a standalone I'm sure...even if it's an old TV with only composite RCA video inputs. I'm not sure if it will play FLAC gaplessly, but Western Digital makes a standalone universal player as well.

[Scott]

An iPad would be an option as well as a laptop. Not sure which platform you use, but with MAC, the Remote app works great.

[saltman]

The TV is the monitor for your htpc. You just switch to that HDMI input like you would for a TV, VCR, etc. The REVO I have makes zero fan noise. I control the REVO with my phone but also have a wireless mouse/keyboard I used to use. Browsing music, playing, stopping, expanding windows, etc. is much more easy on a touch screen. The REVO mounts on the back of the TV via VESA mount if you desire it is so small. You never see it or here it. You also get the added benefit of internet (and all your other programs) on your HDTV in the living room which looks awesome. A touch screen TV would be the shiznit but probably pretty expensive at 55" size. :lol:

http://www.blugga.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Acer-5.jpg

[dcbullet]

That's a cool mounting option. :thumbsup

I would like to set something up like this. I'm just not ready yet.

[oxymoron]

The TV is the monitor for your htpc. You just switch to that HDMI input like you would for a TV, VCR, etc. The REVO I have makes zero fan noise. I control the REVO with my phone but also have a wireless mouse/keyboard I used to use. Browsing music, playing, stopping, expanding windows, etc. is much more easy on a touch screen. The REVO mounts on the back of the TV via VESA mount if you desire it is so small. You never see it or here it. You also get the added benefit of internet (and all your other programs) on your HDTV in the living room which looks awesome. A touch screen TV would be the shiznit but probably pretty expensive at 55" size. :lol:

http://www.blugga.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Acer-5.jpg

Acer Revo 3610 is a very interesting part.
The price is also ok so far (amazon/germany ~ 320 €).
With the Blue ray it is also clear?
Even with video's in full HD resolution (mkv ...)?
Windows 7 is well done technically sound better than the older versions, but it is works with ASIO drivers?
However, I am still not quite clear whether he makes full resolution over HDMI Sound (24-bit/192kHz max) and I need another sorround enabled preamp with HDMI input ... :disbelief

The usual players such as WD's are not bad.
To criticize the menu of these devices and what this is, after changing from dvd to flac it´s need a step into the sound setup. :disbelief

[saltman]

There are a lot of alternatives just like the REVO. I hope I don't sound like a spokesperson.

The key with these REVO like products that use the Atom processor is to use audio/video software that allows hardware acceleration. Not all does. This moves the video calcs from the slow atom processor to the ion video chip (ion2 with the new REVO 3700). I use Media Player Home Cinema which is free. Without hardware acceleration the video is choppy.

I don't know that mine is setup completely correctly because I haven't had a lot of time to play with it. I am having some difficulties with some blurays. I get a little stutter (very minor with no drops in audio) sometimes. I have seen videos on the internet with the REVO playing blurays flawlessly so I don't know if it is on my end or they are faking videos. I get the stutters on bluray files when streamed over my network or with a USB hard drive plugged in.

It plays 1080p mkv with 24 bit audio perfectly. No glitches at all. This make me think it should play blurays also.

Keep in mind the 3610 is the old model. I think they are selling the 3700 now.

It is my understanding that it works with ASIO drivers and is bitperfect.

It does 24/192 over hdmi perfectly.



If I had it to do all over again, I would probably build a super cheap micro ATX computer with a better cheap CPU. Something like a core I5. I think you could do that in a cheap box for about the same price. The down side would be it would use more energy, be bigger, and louder but I think it would be worth it.

[oxymoron]

If I had it to do all over again, I would probably build a super cheap micro ATX computer with a better cheap CPU. Something like a core I5. I think you could do that in a cheap box for about the same price. The down side would be it would use more energy, be bigger, and louder but I think it would be worth it.

:thumbsup

i think it´s better
a little bit shutter is too much. the problem is the usb (transfer rate hd) network (100Mbit is not enough, sometimes)
:wave:

[saltman]

Possibly but I don't think it is the network (I have a gigabit cat6) or usb. If I use the same usb hdd on my fast home computer everything plays fine. Same with the networked NAS.

It also plays some blurays just fine. Like I said I haven't had a lot of time to troubleshoot it could be some settings. It's a perfect box for all audio, dvds, and mkvs. Not so great for blurays. My opinion. The new one might be better. Not sure. I agree a little stutter is too much.

Another possibility is something is getting lost in the HDMI pass thru with my receiver since the REVO goes through it which uses HDMI to the TV. I haven't tried plugging the REVO straight into the TV to test.

[oxymoron]

Possibly but I don't think it is the network (I have a gigabit cat6) or usb. If I use the same usb hdd on my fast home computer everything plays fine. Same with the networked NAS..

the atom cpu not the fastest, not enough for ALL ...
think your "home pc" are much faster!


It also plays some blurays just fine. Like I said I haven't had a lot of time to troubleshoot it could be some settings. It's a perfect box for all audio, dvds, and mkvs. Not so great for blurays. My opinion. The new one might be better. Not sure. I agree a little stutter is too much.

ok, bluerays are not so important in the moment
the price for a machine like yours (revo) are OK. you need for a selfmade
"HiFi" pc more money (good motherboard /i5 / nvidea /cool case)


Another possibility is something is getting lost in the HDMI pass thru with my receiver since the REVO goes through it which uses HDMI to the TV. I haven't tried plugging the REVO straight into the TV to test.

by HMDI: short and good cable ! connected way: HDMI source > receiver (most important for the sound) > HDMI display

[oxymoron]

Anybody know this?
Audiophile ASIO-Driver
http://www.aqvox.de/Asio-USB-Audio-installation-e.htm

[dcbullet]

ok, bluerays are not so important in the moment
the price for a machine like yours (revo) are OK. you need for a selfmade
"HiFi" pc more money (good motherboard /i5 / nvidea /cool case)



I agree. I don't know how you build your own cheaper than the Revo.

[oxymoron]

I agree. I don't know how you build your own cheaper than the Revo.

yeah, no cheaper with selfmade :disbelief

an alternative to revo
barebone system for 200€
http://www.microdirect.co.uk/Home/Product/43482/Foxconn-barebone-PC-system-White-Netbox-nT-330i

[sysoverload]

There are a lot of alternatives just like the REVO. I hope I don't sound like a spokesperson.

The key with these REVO like products that use the Atom processor is to use audio/video software that allows hardware acceleration. Not all does. This moves the video calcs from the slow atom processor to the ion video chip (ion2 with the new REVO 3700). I use Media Player Home Cinema which is free. Without hardware acceleration the video is choppy.

I don't know that mine is setup completely correctly because I haven't had a lot of time to play with it. I am having some difficulties with some blurays. I get a little stutter (very minor with no drops in audio) sometimes. I have seen videos on the internet with the REVO playing blurays flawlessly so I don't know if it is on my end or they are faking videos. I get the stutters on bluray files when streamed over my network or with a USB hard drive plugged in.

It plays 1080p mkv with 24 bit audio perfectly. No glitches at all. This make me think it should play blurays also.

Keep in mind the 3610 is the old model. I think they are selling the 3700 now.

It is my understanding that it works with ASIO drivers and is bitperfect.

It does 24/192 over hdmi perfectly.



If I had it to do all over again, I would probably build a super cheap micro ATX computer with a better cheap CPU. Something like a core I5. I think you could do that in a cheap box for about the same price. The down side would be it would use more energy, be bigger, and louder but I think it would be worth it.

I have the same problem. I use Media Player Classic Home Cinema, and it will play some blu-rays just fine. With other blu-rays, I get some stutter or choppiness in the video, but no audio problems. I tried a couple other players which only performed worse than MPC, but much to my surprise Windows Media Player played the M2TS that exhibited choppiness in MPC perfectly. WMP reported that it didn't recognize the M2TS extention, but was able to play it fine with ffdshow installed. No choppiness at all. So for those blu-rays that won't play well with MPC, I'll be firing up Windows Media Player with ffdshow installed from now on. Never thought I'd use that app ever again. :lol: :rolleyes:

[direwolf-pgh]

Logitech Squeezebox™ Touch
up to 24Bit/96kHz !!!I've read this is a nice player but endusers complain of two major issues.
1. you cant hookup a hard drive directly to it - it chokes when dealing with large collections.
2. intermittent stuttering streams - it has buffer issues.
..thats two big strikes on the device, imo.

[oxymoron]

:1. you cant hookup a hard drive directly to it - it chokes when dealing with large collections.
2. intermittent stuttering streams - it has buffer issues.
..thats two big strikes on the device, imo.

really???
this soundz not good :disbelief

in the moment i play my sound with cPlay/ASIO4ALL2.1
with cPlay the sound ist upscaling to 24Bit/192kHz, NO problems !

[direwolf-pgh]

best practise guide for OS X playback (http://www.wickeddigital.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=97:itunes-setup-for-audiophiles&catid=44:computer-audio-articles&Itemid=222)
..and more thoughts here (http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/wiki/index.php/ITunes-QuickTime_for_Mac_-_Setup_Guide)

++++

if you have a quality HD sound card in your PC it is very easy to enjoy bitperfect playback.
Foobar2000 > wasapi plugin (http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_wasapi)> HDMI/optical to receiver. done.
..this is bitperfect. all songs will playback at native sample/bitrate - zero upsample/downsample - even in shuffle.

if you have a newer receiver you can verify the bitrate being received. the wasapi playback support (in win 7) is the key.

[oxymoron]

best practise guide for OS X playback (http://www.wickeddigital.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=97:itunes-setup-for-audiophiles&catid=44:computer-audio-articles&Itemid=222)
..and more thoughts here (http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/wiki/index.php/ITunes-QuickTime_for_Mac_-_Setup_Guide)

++++

if you have a quality HD sound card in your PC it is very easy to enjoy bitperfect playback.
Foobar2000 > wasapi plugin (http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_wasapi)> HDMI/optical to receiver. done.
..this is bitperfect. all songs will playback at native sample/bitrate - zero upsample/downsample - even in shuffle.

if you have a newer receiver you can verify the bitrate being received. the wasapi playback support (in win 7) is the key.

no OS X :disbelief
XP :) :lol4:
yeah
have also foobar with asio plugin, check the other plugin (wasapi)
my soundcard is a fuckable internal Audigy 2, the other is an external tascam 144mkII (testing)
use it with external DA via optical (very short) up to 24Bit/96kHz

24Bit/192kHz only with aux output from the Audigy (use this with higrade audio transformer )

[oxymoron]

wasapi plugin

not for XP :disbelief

[direwolf-pgh]

correct. wasapi was written by microsoft and introduced in Vista / now featured in Windows 7
(ASIO is an early implementation and should be used with XP)

in layman terms, it allows the playback client to take full control of the audio stream (exclusive mode) and 'speak directly' to the audio driver/soundcard. the direct path allows for a bitperfect stream output.

before wasapi the OS would/could/does 'mess and mix' the sound output -depending on playback variables.
currently OS X and Linux do not offer a bitperfect solution ATM and microsoft media products do not currently support their own wasapi code yet..go figure.
Windows Audio Session API – Very low level API for rendering audio, render/capture audio streams, adjust volume etc. This API also provides low latency for audio professionals through WaveRT

[daddyray]

if that is in layman's terms I am fucked! :)

[Five]

correct. wasapi was written by microsoft and introduced in Vista / now featured in Windows 7
(ASIO is an early implementation and should be used with XP)

in layman terms, it allows the playback client to take full control of the audio stream (exclusive mode) and 'speak directly' to the audio driver/soundcard. the direct path allows for a bitperfect stream output.

before wasapi the OS would/could/does 'mess and mix' the sound output -depending on playback variables.
currently OS X and Linux do not offer a bitperfect solution ATM and microsoft media products do not currently support their own wasapi code yet..go figure.
okay so does this mean that the wdm drivers actually work correctly now :confused:

does asio get any less lag as a result?

currently I'm using asio on xp (upgrade from wdm) for recording. I'd like to try this asio4all with foobar2000 at some point because it was described as "bit-accurate" but according to yer post it never was :(

right? I really don't get the low level stuff thx for your patience! :wave:

[direwolf-pgh]

asio (asio4all w/foobar2000) does bypass the kmixer and is bitperfect/bit-accurate/bit transparent :) of course, you aways need a soundcard up to the task
ASIO is an early implementation of what wasapi offers for vista/win 7 users - and yes it reduces the latency.

do the wdm drivers actually work correctly now? I'm not certain I understand exactly what you mean..but Ill ramble some thoughts
The main issue now with a HTPC depends on how 'pure' you demand the signal.
I wish there was an option in Foobar (and a capable soundcard) to send flac direct/unconverted/native to my receiver. (when you hit play it converts .flac to PCM).
Currently there are only a couple HDMI HD Video/Sound cards that can send native Dolby TrueHD & DTS-HD - most convert each stream/channel to PCM.
not a big deal, but some audiophiles would prefer their expensive amp/receiver DAC to handle all the work and the computer to only serve the data.
the idea here is when you play .flac > the receiver registers FLAC and when you play Dolby TrueHD > the receiver registers TrueHD/DTS-HD.
In most common scenarios (today) a receiver will register PCM no matter what codec you start with ..cause well, the computer converted the original source. its still lossless but I agree with the argument that a native signal would be optimum.

..I'm not an authoritative expert in this field, mr. Five :wave: just sharing/regurgitating the hours of white papers read & what I know from hands on experience.

[oxymoron]

alternative to acer revo
ITX motherboard with Atom D525 (fastest Atom!) + ION, DDR3, a lot of usb/sata with HDMI out
for ~165€, plus RAM (4GB) 50€ plus 2.5" HDD (WD 320GB) 41€ plus ITX Case 45€
complete around 300€

[LazyTaper]

These seem pretty nice also. Same thing. different alternative. Also cheap.

http://www.dlink.com/boxee/

[dcbullet]

These seem pretty nice also. Same thing. different alternative. Also cheap.

http://www.dlink.com/boxee/

I don't like the form factor of that. The qwerty remote is awesome.

I think I'm starting to realize that unless I want to wait 3-5 years for the "perfect" version of these devices, I just need to pick one and realize that it will have it's faults. I think I need to use it before I know what I like and what I don't like.

[saltman]

I think in 3-5 these functions will be built into the A/V receiver. Samsung and others have tried to do it in the TVs but that is pretty much a fail right now.

[dcbullet]

Yeah, that's probably true. But I'm still using a 15 year old receiver so....

Decisions decisions.

[dcbullet]

The Logitech Revue looks cool but no flac support right now. :-/

[saltman]

This one is pretty cool.

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10151&catalogId=10551&langId=-1&productId=8198552921666261253

120 bucks. but also no flac support. :(

[oxymoron]

This player looks good

http://dune-hd.com/hd_players/current/134-dune-hd-smart-b1.html

[dcbullet]

These seem pretty nice also. Same thing. different alternative. Also cheap.

http://www.dlink.com/boxee/

I don't like the form factor of that. The qwerty remote is awesome.

I think I'm starting to realize that unless I want to wait 3-5 years for the "perfect" version of these devices, I just need to pick one and realize that it will have it's faults. I think I need to use it before I know what I like and what I don't like.

Despite not liking the form factor, I just ordered this. I probably would have gone with the Logitech Revue if it supported flac. I actually am primarily interested in this to stream my official recordings. I like the whole album cover thing. My guess is that organizing the live recordings will be tough.

I've never really liked firing up my PS3 to stream my local content. I suspect this will be full of bugs and not perfect but I'm willing to be a first adopter for $200.

[saltman]

I like the way it looks.

Others are saying it works really well on everything. Please post your thoughts after you've used it for a while for others here. I've also considered picking one up.

[dcbullet]

I like the way it looks.

I should clarify. I like the way it looks too. However, I am in a constant battle with keeping things uncluttered and I would rather put it in my "stack." Now, it has to be out in the open. Given that it will be out in the open, at least it has a good design.

[Five]

do the wdm drivers actually work correctly now?
I mean to say will recording using wdm drivers in windows 7 now give the same performance I can get using asio drivers with xp.

thx for the great posts ! :D

oh yeah and more on topic I'm using either computer with a decent soundcard > HK amp or my rockbox'ed iPod > $70 apple cable :disbelief > HK amp

I heard the 'clock' in a computer is kind of shit for audio but would really like to do an a-b test with all the shit right in front of me...

[dcbullet]

I like the way it looks.

Others are saying it works really well on everything. Please post your thoughts after you've used it for a while for others here. I've also considered picking one up.

I've had Boxee Box for a couple of weeks now and will give some of my impressions. First, I think the Boxee Box is currently targeted towards video, and more specifically, online streaming of video. Evidently, they changed the user interface on the Boxee Box version as compared to the PC version of Boxee, which was more local content focused. There have been a lot of complaints in the forums and so they are going to release a revision to the UI to give you the option to focus the UI on online vs. local content.

Things that Boxee Box does fairly well:

1. Play online TV shows from various networks that provide streams of their shows.
2. Play online TV shows that are 'net shows, like Revision3 content.
3. Revo App
4. Youtube App - but you can't log into your youtube account and watch your favorited videos or subscribed channels. :rolleyes:
5. Pandora

I haven't explored streaming local video content yet so I won't comment on that.

With regard to streaming local audio, I don't think I could recommend this as a great device yet.

The good:

1. Plays FLAC gaplessly between gapless tracks. :thumbsup

The bad:

1. The player is the most basic player you can imagine. There is no fast forward, no rewind. When an album is done playing, it stops. You can't queue up multiple albums.
2. You can't play random from your whole music collection.
3. You can't make a playlist in Boxee Box, although evidently you can make a playlist on your PC then point your Boxee Box to that file but that's stupid.
4. Album covers are scraped off the internet rather than using a folder.jpg. This is bad for a couple of reasons - 1) Many of the album covers are wrong or look terrible, 2) It looks them up every time so you have to wait for the album covers to scrape (this takes several seconds if you have a lot of albums for an artist).
5. Once you have navigated away from the play screen, you lose the ability to skip a track. That is, you have to go back to the album screen and select the track you want (unless you want it to go to the next track rather than skipping a track).
6. You organize only by tags. I think this will be a problem for most of these players, not just Boxee Box. The issue there is that it makes it hard when you have a lot of live music for an artist. So you would need to name the artist "Live Artist" for example, unless you wanted to go into that artist and there would be 300 live shows in front of your official releases. In some ways I think a directory structure organization would be better.
7. The visualization during music playing sucks! It looks like Windows 95 graphics. PS3's visualizations are awesome in comparison.

Well, that's it for now, I'll post more if I think of more. Supposedly audio is pretty low on the Boxee Box team's priority but they plan to make it better in the future.

[dcbullet]

Boxee box also has a propensity to freeze. Especially if you launch something, then push the back button before it has loaded whatever you have launched. Reboot time.

[dcbullet]

Here's another device:

http://www.netgear.com/products/home/hometheater/media-players/NTV550.aspx

It says it has analog stereo out but for the life of me I can't see where on the back that output is.

[lintoni]

Good read. Anybody have any more thoughts?

[GRC]

FWIW, I ended up with a Logitech Sqeezebox Touch.

Plays back wirelessly from my FLAC folder on the network, receives Internet Radio, and can be configured to play from USB HDD or SD card