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View Full Version : Is this mp3 sourced?


Punkishlyevil
2004-11-25, 12:06 PM
Please move it to Technobabble if thats where its supposed to be though. Anyways, in The Smashing Pumpkins hub, a compilation called The Hideout Compilation Two has been spreading in there. This is a Zwan comp. It was only released in MP3 at first, but now its showing up as flacs in the hub. According to Quinto (who released the comp. originally) he never seeded it in flacs, or gave the flacs to anyone. So I believe its mp3, but I would like one of the experts here to check the pictures I have.

Cool Edit Spectral View (http://www.seveninchsingle.com/hosted/Hideout%20Two%20Track%20Two%20Cool%20Edit%20Spectral%20View.jpg)

EAC Frequency Analysis (http://www.seveninchsingle.com/hosted/Hideout%20Two%20Track%20Two%20EAC%20Frequency%20Analysis.jpg)

EAC Spectral View (http://www.seveninchsingle.com/hosted/Hideout%20Two%20Track%20Two%20EAC%20Spectral%20View.jpg)

U2Lynne
2004-11-25, 12:13 PM
Moving to Technobabble..... :)

And changing title to reflect the subject.

Punkishlyevil
2004-11-25, 12:16 PM
Moving to Technobabble..... :)

And changing title to reflect the subject.

Okay thanks :)

Doctor Bob Gordon
2004-11-25, 12:56 PM
mmm... I'm almost sure it is lossy-sourced...

Five
2004-11-25, 03:02 PM
The FA looks very safe yet the spectral looks a little "iffy"... could you create a 2 or 4-second FLAC, put it in a .zip and attach it here, please? So far, this doesn't look mp3 to me.

U2Lynne
2004-11-25, 03:19 PM
Oh good, I was hoping Five would show up here. :)

Karst
2004-11-25, 03:58 PM
Yeah, going by the frequency analysis I'd say it is ok. But it probably really needs a listen. Is the compilation studio based?

Punkishlyevil
2004-11-25, 04:13 PM
Yeah, going by the frequency analysis I'd say it is ok. But it probably really needs a listen. Is the compilation studio based?

No they are live tracks from The Hideout in Chicago.

Punkishlyevil
2004-11-25, 04:14 PM
The FA looks very safe yet the spectral looks a little "iffy"... could you create a 2 or 4-second FLAC, put it in a .zip and attach it here, please? So far, this doesn't look mp3 to me.

To do this, can I convert the FLAC to wav, then cut it, then back to FLAC? I only know how to cut wavs.

Punkishlyevil
2004-11-25, 04:22 PM
AnalFreq Channel 1 (Left) picture:

AnalFreq Channel 1 (Left) (http://www.seveninchsingle.com/hosted/Hideout%20Two%20Track%20Two%20AnalFreq%20Channel%201%20(Left).jpg)

Five
2004-11-25, 04:32 PM
To do this, can I convert the FLAC to wav, then cut it, then back to FLAC? I only know how to cut wavs.
Yeah, that's fine. With a sample I can get to the bottom of this tonight.

Gizby
2004-11-25, 05:02 PM
This seems to be a good place to ask. Where might I find a working download for AnalFreq 1.80?

Punkishlyevil
2004-11-25, 05:08 PM
Okay I just grabbed this sample from a random spot. If you need it from the beginning I can do that though.

Edit: Apparntly 266.3 KB is too big. I could send you it on AIM if you want. My name is Punkishlyevil. Also I could email you it.

Punkishlyevil
2004-11-25, 05:09 PM
This seems to be a good place to ask. Where might I find a working download for AnalFreq 1.80?

I never could find one either, but if you follow this link to another message board, there is a link in the thread. Here is the thread: http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78180

The posters name is CoolAsIceCream and the post is the third last. I hope this helps.

Five
2004-11-25, 05:43 PM
Okay I just grabbed this sample from a random spot. If you need it from the beginning I can do that though.

Edit: Apparntly 266.3 KB is too big. I could send you it on AIM if you want. My name is Punkishlyevil. Also I could email you it.
It should work if you put it in a .zip then try to attach it... if not, I'll be home late this evening and will pm you with an email you can use... I can also be reached on AIM (ID fiveraliver) if you let me know when to be online.

Punkishlyevil
2004-11-25, 05:55 PM
File Too Large. Limit for this filetype is 97.7 KB. Your file is 266.3 KB.

Yeah could you just PM me an email address to send it to? I don't really know when I'll be on aim since I've been on and off all day at random times since I've been hanging out with the family today.

Gizby
2004-11-25, 05:56 PM
I never could find one either, but if you follow this link to another message board, there is a link in the thread. Here is the thread: http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78180

The posters name is CoolAsIceCream and the post is the third last. I hope this helps.

Thank you very much. I've been meaning to try it out for quite some time.
I'll probably be seeding a Minus The Bear show later today or tomorrow, just in case you are interested.

Punkishlyevil
2004-11-25, 05:58 PM
Thank you very much. I've been meaning to try it out for quite some time.
I'll probably seeding a Minus The Bear show later today or tomorrow, just in case you are interested.

Whoa awesome! I love Minus The Bear!

bowman
2004-11-25, 07:19 PM
this is 100% mp3 sourced. Frank did *not* release a lossy copy ever... and no one else has these songs.

Rider
2004-11-25, 08:08 PM
yep not only is it MP3 sourced it sure looks like a mp3 that has been burned to aufio and extracted at least once. If you want to know for sur just ake a look at hideout 1 and compare the 2, but sets were record with the same rig so they should pretty much match.

RainDawg
2004-11-25, 08:09 PM
There's no way those screen caps are from an mp3. I can't comment on what Frank would or wouldn't release, but those are just simply not mp3.

Rider
2004-11-25, 08:20 PM
actually now that I look this looks alot like hideout one, minus the ugly bit of noise at the end of the file. It still looks like it's been burned and extracted once to me. but it's kind of hard to tell from the images posted so far.

Doctor Bob Gordon
2004-11-25, 08:42 PM
That spectrogram posted by Punkishlyevil makes me think it was lossy sourced. Note the dark (black) areas on high frequencies, when there is more energy on lower frequencies.

I've attached some screen captures from a MP3 file with a similar spectrogram profile.

But sometimes is hard to tell... :hmm: ...spectrogram and freq analysis sometimes have unconclusive results...

Rider
2004-11-25, 09:16 PM
not MP3, MD. but that little bit at the end bugs me.

Punkishlyevil
2004-11-25, 09:17 PM
Rider, do you want me to send you a clip of the flac? I really hope we can get to the bottom of this.

Rider
2004-11-25, 09:21 PM
Rider, do you want me to send you a clip of the flac? I really hope we can get to the bottom of this.


It's not MP3, it might have some sort of error at the end of that track, but it's not liek we will ever get another source on this.

Punkishlyevil
2004-11-25, 09:22 PM
Since all these pictures were taken from only one track, should I check another from the compilation?

Rider
2004-11-25, 09:51 PM
Since all these pictures were taken from only one track, should I check another from the compilation?


nope volume one looks the same.

Five
2004-11-25, 10:08 PM
That spectrogram posted by Punkishlyevil makes me think it was lossy sourced. Note the dark (black) areas on high frequencies, when there is more energy on lower frequencies.

I've attached some screen captures from a MP3 file with a similar spectrogram profile.

But sometimes is hard to tell... :hmm: ...spectrogram and freq analysis sometimes have unconclusive results...
this must be high bitrate. I'd like to see a SA zoomed in to 1.5 seconds if you could...

Rider
2004-11-25, 10:14 PM
this must be high bitrate. I'd like to see a SA zoomed in to 1.5 seconds if you could...


once again I have masters from the same set of recordings, they look exatly the same.

This is MD not MP3.

Five
2004-11-25, 10:19 PM
That jives with what I've seen so far, anyways.

btw I was referring to the "MP3 file with a similar spectrogram profile" that Dr. Bob was using as an example. A little off-topic, I know.

Rider
2004-11-25, 10:27 PM
That jives with what I've seen so far, anyways.

btw I was referring to the "MP3 file with a similar spectrogram profile" that Dr. Bob was using as an example. A little off-topic, I know.

K so many people going off on tangents it's hard to keep up.

Doctor Bob Gordon
2004-11-25, 11:06 PM
K so many people going off on tangents it's hard to keep up. Someone asked if his lossless files are MP3 sourced, based on spectral and frequency analysis. I just tried to help, I said I believe the screen caps are from a lossy-sourced file (MD use lossy compression) but I added that sometines spectral and frequency analysis are not conclusive, and I included some caps from a MP3 file, that doesn't have the usual cut on the highs. That's all. I can't see how I'm "going off on tangents"... :confused:

this must be high bitrate. I'd like to see a SA zoomed in to 1.5 seconds if you could... Yes it's a 320kbps file (I'm not sure about the encoder). Sometimes MP3 don't look too much like MP3.

dBG

Five
2004-11-26, 12:08 AM
hmm... at the higher bitrates, it sure it more difficult to tell. This segment you've posted the pic of has hardly any audio in it at all. With lossy sources I can always seem to find the distinctive "blocks" in the SA when I zoom in, perhaps thanks in part to some settings I changed as per ssamadhi97's advice way back when. I'll post those recommended settings for CEP/Audition up here once I find them (or perhaps ssamadhi97 will drop by and post them before that).

Anyhow, it seems that every one of these "is this mp3" threads goes off into the discussion of "it's hard to tell anything for certain" which is a fact, but this doesn't stop us from mining the data that is available.

Now with the case in point, I have procured a ten second sample.

SA of the full 10 seconds:

Five
2004-11-26, 12:12 AM
What we can tell so far is that this is not cbr mp3-sourced, since the "black" at the top doesn't appear as a straight line.

What can also be gathered is that this is a lossy source of some kind, due to the appearance of "blocks" in the closeups.

Five
2004-11-26, 12:15 AM
also, the FA looks great, except when you hover over the last section of this sample a steep drop-off just below 13kHz can be seen:

Five
2004-11-26, 12:24 AM
This file has the "lego" look of an MD source. It also slightly resembles VBR mp3, but all the VBR mp3-sourced stuff I've analyzed has had smaller "blocks" visible where there's transients.

So, from my best analysis & gut feeling, I'd call this MD-sourced (like Rider said).

This portion particularly resembles another MD-sourced show I have on my drive:

Five
2004-11-26, 12:26 AM
...and last time I checked, shows recorded on MD are acceptable to be seeded at TTD (somebody correct me if I'm wrong)

Punkishlyevil
2004-11-26, 12:31 AM
MD makes sense because on www.SPFC.org the hideout shows were recorded with an MD. But what doesn't make sense still is how this got out. Quinto never released flacs, and it was always in MP3 before.

Rider
2004-11-26, 12:41 AM
MD makes sense because on www.SPFC.org the hideout shows were recorded with an MD. But what doesn't make sense still is how this got out. Quinto never released flacs, and it was always in MP3 before.

One Frank said he was going to put it out if he coudl find the masters. Two if you think Frank has never given this stuff to other people you are crazy.

Punkishlyevil
2004-11-26, 12:44 AM
One Frank said he was going to put it out if he coudl find the masters. Two if you think Frank has never given this stuff to other people you are crazy.

Yeah I know he said he would put up the masters, but according to what he said in the hub, he didn't.

From the hub:

[09:18 PM] Quinto> i haven't gotten around to make a lossless version of hideout comp 2 yet
[09:18 PM] Quinto> i haven't had time. i've been soooooo busy
[09:19 PM] Quinto> so i don't know where the lossless version thats on the hub is from. but it's not from me.
[09:19 PM] Quinto> and i didn't give the flacs to anybody

The < in front of his username had to be taken out, because when they were in it didn't appear to show the username

Five
2004-11-26, 12:52 AM
Somebody got the mp3 version of this show? A direct comparison could help at this point

Punkishlyevil
2004-11-26, 12:52 AM
Yeah I got it. Should I email you a clip of an mp3 or the whole song?

Five
2004-11-26, 12:54 AM
If you could email me the track that the last clip came from that would be cool.

cid92
2004-11-26, 12:57 AM
As of right now I am going to get Hideout II unshared from the hub until a definitive answer can be given. I've looked at some of this through WaveLab and the unpacked FLAC version and the MP3 version are very, very similar.

Also, since Frank has come out and said he didn't release this in lossless, the current "lossless" version on the hub is more than likely converted MP3 files.

Rider
2004-11-26, 01:04 AM
Did he give anyone a cd of it cause like I said it llooks like it ahs been extracted once already.

Punkishlyevil
2004-11-26, 01:05 AM
If you could email me the track that the last clip came from that would be cool.

Alright its sent.

Five
2004-11-26, 01:28 AM
The mp3 looks pretty much identical to the FLAC version :( Check this out, this is the same segment from the mp3 as the 10-second SA screenshot above:

Five
2004-11-26, 01:32 AM
I took both the FLAC and the mp3 into multitrack view and lined them up exactly by offsetting the mp3 +24 samples. They are so identical I can't even see a difference.

FLAC is on top, mp3 on the bottom:

Five
2004-11-26, 01:34 AM
no matter where I zoom in, I can't detect any difference other than the offset. Sorry, I was wrong... looks like this one is mp3-sourced after all.

Punkishlyevil
2004-11-26, 01:58 AM
Damn. :( Well thanks a lot for all the help! I'm glad we got it all sorted out, even though the answer isn't what I was hoping for.

Five
2004-11-26, 02:09 AM
yer welcome. hopefully Quinto will circulate the lossless version soon.