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View Full Version : un-known lineage category


ep620
2005-02-14, 10:58 AM
Maybe TTD needs an un-known lineage category. So people can decide for them selves. Iím against pissing in the gene pool as much as anyone here and will always update for known lineage if I can. As long as it sounds better or the same as the copy I have. But some recordings sound awesome and no one knows where they came from. In my book sound quality is as important, and sometimes more important than knowing where it came from. It could be right from the master reel but if it sounds like shit Iím never going to listen to it. Also we canít always count on people with masters wanting to share or even having the equipment or knowledge to put it up on the net. But if there was an un-known thread category here TTD might get more traffic and people could decide for themselves if they want the copy. :wave:

Rider
2005-02-14, 12:20 PM
Not going to happen read the mission statement on the first page of this site. This is not the only place to seed things and if people want they can always use EZT or some other site to seed.

ep620
2005-02-14, 07:39 PM
read the mission statement on the first page

I read the mission statement back when TTD got created. I also have read people complain about lack of traffic here and how they wish more people used this sight. I have done most of my sharing at other places for the simple reason that there hasnít been much music here that interests me. Itís just a suggestion to get more people using the sight.

New Homebrew
2005-02-14, 08:26 PM
Itís just a suggestion to get more people using the sight.

If the price for higher quality is less popularity that is fine by me.

U2Lynne
2005-02-14, 09:30 PM
We've never aimed to be a huge site. We do have a few 'groups' here that have chosen to share their stuff here and we like that they are nice and comfy. We don't have any goal at all to be an EZT. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with EZT, I'm just saying that it is a huge site and one that would be very hard to Mod (notice how many Mods they have just added). Our top torrent just topped 1900 downloads since the middle of December. That's not bad. So, it's not that we don't get traffic at all.

And, like Rider said, there are other sites for un-known lineage torrents. And, really, the thing is, there is no such thing as an un-known lineage show. There is just an uneducated seeder. *Every* show has lineage even if it's a CD you found on the side of the road:

AUD> ??> CD-Rx (found on side of road)* > iTunes with error correction on > AIFF > xACT > flac

* CD listened to many times, no errors detected. shntool SBE output provided - no SBEs detected, and Spectral Analysis provided in next post.

hirsute
2005-02-14, 11:30 PM
We've never aimed to be a huge site.
You do need enough members so the swarm produces a good download speed. That's the whole idea behind bit torrent technology and it's not always the case here. Even though that last Winston Remaster did come down at almost 3 Mbit/sec


*Every* show has lineage even if it's a CD you found on the side of the road:

AUD> ??> CD-Rx (found on side of road)* > iTunes with error correction on > AIFF > xACT > flac

* CD listened to many times, no errors detected. shntool SBE output provided - no SBEs detected, and Spectral Analysis provided in next post.
So a CDR of unknown linage can be torrented as:

A(x) > CDR (x) > EAC/Flac

Is this correct?

U2Lynne
2005-02-15, 12:06 AM
So a CDR of unknown linage can be torrented as:

A(x) > CDR (x) > EAC/Flac

Is this correct?
I didn't say it could be torrented *here*, I simply said there is no such thing as a show with unknown lineage and I proceeded to show what could be known about a show found on the side of the road (where most people would simply say 'unknown lineage'). And, we do allow CDR(x) shows here when they are shows that you just won't find circulating from the master (or silver, whichever it happens to be). Usually these are much older shows.

And, in regards to site growth, we are growing at a rate that we never really expected, to be honest (we've never gone out and advertised ourselves). We are gaining about 200 registrations a day. I don't know how fast people really want us to grow. I'm not going to worry about our growth right now.

toys
2005-02-15, 04:47 AM
You do need enough members so the swarm produces a good download speed. That's the whole idea behind bit torrent technology and it's not always the case here. Even though that last Winston Remaster did come down at almost 3 Mbit/sec


The "swarm" difference between the first show I posted here when they had less than 10k members and the last show I posted here when they had 15k members was tremendous. My personal experience is showing me that they're already big enough now where theres enough people to keep a show going at a good speed, and they're still growing every day. I'd like to see the site continue to grow and get more and more users and more and more shows posted here - but not at the expense of quality or an easing of the guidelines. EZT already exists, no need to replicate it in my opinion.

jcrab66
2005-02-15, 01:54 PM
I'll take Quality over Quantity anyday, keep things the way they are now......

diggrd
2005-02-15, 09:41 PM
I love having a friendly environment to share my own recordings, one where the rules make a difference not in how fast or how many shows I can collect, but in how well I can trace a certain version of a show thereby helping me to collect the best sounding version out there. I have chosen the Den to be the sole place I will torrent my recordings based on the philosophy stated in the mission statement and the folks who put the site together. Thanks again for a wonderful place to share the various live music I have been lucky enough to have heard and recorded.

hirsute
2005-02-16, 12:11 AM
I didn't say it could be torrented *here*, I simply said there is no such thing as a show with unknown lineage and I proceeded to show what could be known about a show found on the side of the road (where most people would simply say 'unknown lineage'). And, we do allow CDR(x) shows here when they are shows that you just won't find circulating from the master (or silver, whichever it happens to be). Usually these are much older shows.

I don't want to torrent a show I found on the side of the road. Just wanted to make sure I understood what you where saying. I agree with the policy. I'd like to see silver boots banned as well since they have no linage beyond the pressing. I keep seeing this: AUD > ? > Silver CD. I wonder what's really between AUD and Silver. It could be anything so how is this linage any better than A(x) > CDR. If you stop at the silver you have no digital problems, just an unknown number of analog gens adding hiss and speed variations to the source.



And, in regards to site growth, we are growing at a rate that we never really expected, to be honest (we've never gone out and advertised ourselves). We are gaining about 200 registrations a day. I don't know how fast people really want us to grow. I'm not going to worry about our growth right now

The growth rate is impressive. It explains way my torrents seem to run forever here. I have one that's been running for over a month. The swarm never was very big but it just keeps going and going...

Please don't think I'm picking on the place. IMHO this is the best torrent site there is. You guys have made this a very friendly place to share music.

Five
2005-02-16, 04:11 AM
I don't want to torrent a show I found on the side of the road. Just wanted to make sure I understood what you where saying. I agree with the policy. I'd like to see silver boots banned as well since they have no linage beyond the pressing. I keep seeing this: AUD > ? > Silver CD. I wonder what's really between AUD and Silver. It could be anything so how is this linage any better than A(x) > CDR. If you stop at the silver you have no digital problems, just an unknown number of analog gens adding hiss and speed variations to the source.
When we started this site we discussed not allowing silver bootlegs for this reason. A big part of the reason we decided to allow them is because it takes profit away from bootleggers.

RainDawg
2005-02-16, 07:39 AM
The reason silver is preferred is because at least you have something that contains the original digitization of it, without additional digital generations. This, of course, lowers the chance of there being flaws. If, as is the case with Pink Floyd and many other bands, material that has been pressed to silver disc begins to circulate in better form, we'd prefer those versions over the silvers. We're just trying to have a place where the best possible circulating recording (I understand that many masters are hoarded or only traded in elite circles) can be seeded. That is our philosophy, and I believe we've come up with a pretty good set of guidelines for enforcing it.

RainDawg
2005-02-17, 07:36 AM
I am going to move this to technobabble where it may get some more attention.

hirsute
2005-02-17, 02:33 PM
The reason silver is preferred is because at least you have something that contains the original digitization of it, without additional digital generations. This, of course, lowers the chance of there being flaws. If, as is the case with Pink Floyd and many other bands, material that has been pressed to silver disc begins to circulate in better form, we'd prefer those versions over the silvers. We're just trying to have a place where the best possible circulating recording (I understand that many masters are hoarded or only traded in elite circles) can be seeded. That is our philosophy, and I believe we've come up with a pretty good set of guidelines for enforcing it.

We've discussed this before and I think we'll always disagree. When I see AUD > ? > Silver I simply don't download the show. There's no telling what's behind the question mark. Stopping digital flaws is great but given a choice of "A(low) > CDR(x)" and "A(x) > Silver CD" I'll take the CDR(x). Most digital errors are easily correctable. The hiss and speed problems introduced by multiple analog generations are much more difficult to correct.

RainDawg
2005-02-18, 07:00 AM
Good enough, but either option you've listed above is OK for seeding here. Digital errors, if they are not bad, can be corrected, but very few people can find them and know how to do it correctly. Running "click removal" on sections of music will destroy it as fast as excessive NR and many of the other taboo techniques that are out there.

But the bottom line here is that we are forcing people to list what they have so that you (the users) can decide what they want and what they don't. Your preference is fine. And I'm sure you can agree that "AUD > ? > Silver > EAC" is much better than "AUD > ? > Silver > CDR(x) > EAC" right?