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todger
2007-04-10, 01:31 PM
Excuse me if this has been answered already, but I've had a look around and can't see an obvious statement/announcement: is there a ratio policy in operation on The Traders' Den? *



* apostrophe after the "s" because there is more than one trader ;-)

toys
2007-04-10, 01:54 PM
no ratio enforcement here.

lots of ratio predjudice amongst members here though, despite that policy. so if you've got a poor ratio things like requests for reseeds (for example) may be ignored by others.

dcbullet
2007-04-10, 05:52 PM
"You better keep a fucking good ratio!" explicit enough!?

todger
2007-04-10, 08:14 PM
"You better keep a fucking good ratio!" explicit enough!?
Looks like that correspondence course in repartee wasn't such a bad investment after all ;-)

paddington
2007-04-10, 08:36 PM
is there a ratio policy in operation on The Traders' Den?

Give what you take.
If you can give more, great. Do that.

europhan
2007-04-10, 09:21 PM
so if you've got a poor ratio things like requests for reseeds (for example) may be ignored by others.


If I see a request for a reseed of a show I have, the first thing I do before any other consideration about the request, is look at the person's share ratio. If I don't like what I see, it gets no further consideration.

toys
2007-04-10, 10:15 PM
If I see a request for a reseed of a show I have, the first thing I do before any other consideration about the request, is look at the person's share ratio. If I don't like what I see, it gets no further consideration.
you should really click the persons username for a quick look at their profile to see if they have started any Vines or offered up any B&P's, both of which are listed on the users profile. lots of those people who have poor internet connections share back that way. or consider if they have a ton of posts in the Technobabble Forum where they're constantly helping out people new to bit torrent. or if they're a taper who has never torrented a show and has a zero ratio but has mailed out a huge pile of his own personal master recordings to others to torrent for him. or... well you get the idea i hope. there is a reason why we don't enforce ratios here. far far too many other ways to share.

dcbullet
2007-04-10, 11:46 PM
or if they're a taper who has never torrented a show and has a zero ratio but has mailed out a huge pile of his own personal master recordings to others to torrent for him


:hmm:

paddington
2007-04-11, 01:14 AM
who could he be talking about.... :hmm:

U2Lynne
2007-04-11, 11:08 AM
Well, it sounds like this question has been pretty much answered. Basically, we just ask that you share in whatever way you can. Some people go Vine the shows they download or B&P them. Other people are very good at making cover for the shows. Others donate, others help out in Technobabble, others send out shows to other users to torrent, and then others just try their best to always be able to open a window on a show. This is a Trading site, not just a torrent site, so just go out and share.

jellybeard999
2007-04-18, 10:43 AM
Please remember places like this only survive based on the community. I personally have let my ratio drop (lots of downloading recently, no time to upload) but I'm now going on a seeding campaign :lol

dcbullet
2007-04-25, 07:49 PM
but I'm now going on a seeding campaign :lol

I think that was more of a skirmish.

Dudogger
2007-05-03, 02:19 PM
Posted earlier today in response to yet another narrow-minded, ratio-fueled attack by someone whose sense of sharing and community has long-since escaped him. Hopefully, it will foster a little discussion regarding the rather distasteful class system that has resulted from the unnecessary use and public display of personal ratios by this site:

*******************************************************

:rolleyes: I guess I've now read so many of the baseless, ratio-related, pseudo-flame jobs that it's time to relay on to anyone who reads this a few observations I've made and thoughts I’ve had, about TTD-style "sharing" - especially to those of you who appear to be quite mathematically and cognitively challenged, and to those who are doing their very best to contribute, and yet still have to wade regularly through this kind of self-righteous pablum, just to be able to enjoy the music.

1) The arbitrary 1.00 ratio guideline is just that - a ratio and a guideline, and quite arbitrary. Here, ratio means upload volume divided by download volume, without any regard to individual bandwidth, drive capacity, etc. It is only a target, not a requirement, and one that is not readily attainable to many users who, nonetheless, still contribute in a very positive way. Thus TTD's suggestion that those who can't achieve 1.00 should try to B&P, vine, and so on. I imagine that a large number of participants, like me, are doing just that, yet it doesn't serve to stifle these impotent flamers much, does it? One yahoo recently boasted to me that his ratio was better than mine back when he used a laptop with a 56K modem. To which I ask - So what is your point? I mean, really, at 56K it likely took him a month to download one show. Then with a (hypothetical) 3.75 u/l divided by a 4.20 d/l, I guess I'd have to agree that his 0.89 ratio was better than mine. What a profound revelation that guy had, eh? So, a high ratio is really fairly meaningless, unless it is supported by a healthy upload volume. Without any regard to download volume, your absolute uploads are the true measure of one's contribution to any trading community, and not some poorly conceived, often-abused, arbitrary ratio threshold.

2) Occasionally, one downloads a show that is not worth keeping, burning, or sharing (due to poor quality), and in the user's opinion, shouldn't further pollute the trading pool by way of continued uploading. If one were then to delete that show/torrent, one might only have obtained a show-specific .17 ratio, for example. This can't be recouped for that deleted show, and that .17 ratio becomes a detriment to the user's overall ratio (as tracked by TTD), when in fact, he/she is doing the community a small favor by not enabling the spread of a crappy show. Other times, after a torrent's seeds/leeches drop to 0, and remains there for a number of days, that torrent is likewise deleted, though its individual ratio may still be well less than 1.00, but it is still available to meet reseed and B&P requests. Unfortunately, the typical flamer would prefer to spin that as being the horrible leecher "taking as much as possible, while giving next to nothing", which to many of us is much like Dubya saying "we've got to attack them there so they won't attack us here". Sorry, but we just know better. And, once someone seeds or uploads a show, it's out there, and the seeder has gotten his/her jollies, quite justifiably, for having offered it up. Various people then tap into that torrent and share the obtained music in their preferred, individual ways - there are indeed many shades of gray in this world. So in this format, it's not about taking versus giving back (equally) so much as it is about using current technology to acquire audio and video from a wealth of different sources, then redistributing that music, in various different ways, to other people who maybe aren't so fortunate or capable. Expected giving is just not a very cool thing, no matter how you look at it. It's kind of like feeling obligated to tithe 10% of your meager income to the local church, merely because that's their expectation of you and everybody does it, rather than because it’s something you freely elect to do or even can physically manage to do.

3) Some folks have great upload/download bandwidth. Good for them. Some do not, so they acquire what they can, when they can. Some, like me, have a pretty good download speed, but a very restrictive upload cap (mine is limited to about 28K, less than 10% of my maximum download speed). So any time my BT client is running, I am uploading at my maximum capacity, regardless of the number of torrents I have uploading at any given time. If I were to stop all of my downloading in order to capitulate to one selfish moron’s attempted browbeating of me to raise my ratio by uploading only, then guess what? I’m still only uploading at 28K, so that my rate (speed) of contribution to other downloaders remains exactly the same. And, I've been running nearly 24/7 since January 07. (Sorry, flamers, I just can't afford T1 right now in order to keep you happy.) Stopping the downloading, therefore, serves no rational, contributory purpose at all – it just curtails the acquisition and redistribution of new music, but in no way speeds the overall upload process. "Looking back to help others" (with reseed requests), while sounding noble, also corrects nothing ratio-wise because the upload rate remains the same no matter what combination of torrents I might choose to upload to (today I have 11 active ones). Just to illustrate how arbitrary and abused the ratio issue is, and how truly dense and cyber-power-hungry some of these non-mod gooberbrains can be: One challenged user recently had the gall to dictate to me that I should stop downloading until my ratio rises to at least 50%. To which I must ask – Based on what published mandate? And – Who died and left you dog-catcher, eh? Or - Is this some new standard you’ve just now conceived of and applied all by your smug little self? Impressive. So glad to hear it. Thanks again for the suggestion. Not.

4) If one were to halt downloads in order to increase ratio, that would mean one has temporarily stopped accumulating new material. Torrents die, such that by doing so you’d also increase the chances of missing out on one or more good shows as a result, such that you’d perhaps occasionally request a reseed, such that some other mindless flamer might well then decide to again stretch his puny ego by snooping into your stats and harping on you and your ratio. What fun!! So, I say to anyone reading this: People upload because it’s their hobby and they enjoy it. Other people download because it’s their hobby and they enjoy it. Still other people B&P like crazy, or simply burn and give away discs to special, grateful people who love the music, but don’t have the time, interest, and/or capability to download and burn it themselves - because it’s their hobby and they enjoy it! TTD is but one small facet on the face of a much larger trading/giving community concept that kind of mirrors the old Rastafarian philosophy of “from those that have, to those that have not”. That is, you should endeavor to share what you take, where you can, when you can, and with whomever you can, without any regard to some other person’s rate of sharing or giving, or their misguided expectations of you. This is the true spirit of “sharing the music”, and TTD would be a much better, kinder place without the few demented flamers who seem to believe otherwise, and routinely spoil it for everyone else, just for their squeaky little voices to be heard. I think that tossing out the ratio concept altogether would be highly constructive in removing an unfortunate opportunity for some sad souls to unfairly judge so many others who are just trying their best, and allow people of all shades to merge into the mosaic, in whatever fashion their individual preferences will support, effectively eliminating all this phony and unnecessary hierarchy garbage. That's what freedom is.

Happy Trading and Happy Sharing


P.S. - If you're a reader who keeps getting flamed by puffed-up jokers who have nothing better to do, no matter your effort to upload within the constraints of your particular system and/or budget, please jump in and say what you think. It's important for you to be heard rather than allowing that ratio flamer shit to, in any way, intimidate you into apologizing for your numbers. These people should be wholly ashamed, just like those now running our country (into the ground). Every kilobyte uploaded is a positive contribution from you to this system and community, regardless of what you receive from it, and as a recipient of some really good stuff, I, my friends, my family, and many receiving acquaintances are extremely thankful! :clap:

U2Lynne
2007-05-03, 05:28 PM
Dudogger, why is it that you think we should not show share ratios here? Do you download from the other big torrent sites like DIME or Tapecity or Lossless Legs or ....., cuz all the major torrent sites that I know of will show your ratio. Actually, they do even more, they ban for ratios less than .25 (some for even less than .5). It really is not unusual to show ratios at these sites. If the showing of ratio issue bothers you, I do know that etree does not show them, so that may be a torrent site that you will want to check out.

If you go to a user's profile page, if a person has offered B&Ps or Vines, we list those, along with shows they have offered through torrents. Keeping a good ratio, B&Ping, Vining, offering up new shows here, those are all are different ways for a person to share what they have and help out the community.

You may want to consider that maybe you are downloading more than you really need to. I have an upload cap that is a bit less than twice what yours is. In fact, if a poll were to be taken, I would say the majority of users will fall between 28-52 for their upload rates. It's a pretty standard upload rate. I've suggested to other people that if their ratio is getting low, then they may want to find an download buddy. Find someone with similar tastes in music and each download only half the shows you normally do and then copy and send along the shows to each other every month (or two, whatever you agree on). That will halve the amount you download, but at the same time keep your upload the same and you will end up doubling your upload 'rate' per month.

Just another note.... if you look in Technobabble, you will see some posts about users who have gotten notices from their ISPs for downloading 'too much' (and that amount never seems to be clear). If you have downloaded 500 GB since January, then you may want to slow down a bit and also look up your terms of service. As I said, the ISPs don't seem to want to define what 'too much' is, but if I recall, it seems to be somewhere in the 60-80GB a month range which is less than what your rate is.

toys
2007-05-03, 05:31 PM
Posted earlier today in response to yet another narrow-minded, ratio-fueled attack by someone whose sense of sharing and community has long-since escaped him. Hopefully, it will foster a little discussion regarding the rather distasteful class system that has resulted from the unnecessary use and public display of personal ratios by this site:

*******************************************************

:rolleyes: I guess I've now read so many of the baseless, ratio-related, pseudo-flame jobs that it's time to relay on to anyone who reads this a few observations I've made and thoughts I’ve had, about TTD-style "sharing" - especially to those of you who appear to be quite mathematically and cognitively challenged, and to those who are doing their very best to contribute, and yet still have to wade regularly through this kind of self-righteous pablum, just to be able to enjoy the music.

1) The arbitrary 1.00 ratio guideline is just that - a ratio and a guideline, and quite arbitrary. Here, ratio means upload volume divided by download volume, without any regard to individual bandwidth, drive capacity, etc. It is only a target, not a requirement, and one that is not readily attainable to many users who, nonetheless, still contribute in a very positive way. Thus TTD's suggestion that those who can't achieve 1.00 should try to B&P, vine, and so on. I imagine that a large number of participants, like me, are doing just that, yet it doesn't serve to stifle these impotent flamers much, does it? One yahoo recently boasted to me that his ratio was better than mine back when he used a laptop with a 56K modem. To which I ask - So what is your point? I mean, really, at 56K it likely took him a month to download one show. Then with a (hypothetical) 3.75 u/l divided by a 4.20 d/l, I guess I'd have to agree that his 0.89 ratio was better than mine. What a profound revelation that guy had, eh? So, a high ratio is really fairly meaningless, unless it is supported by a healthy upload volume. Without any regard to download volume, your absolute uploads are the true measure of one's contribution to any trading community, and not some poorly conceived, often-abused, arbitrary ratio threshold.

2) Occasionally, one downloads a show that is not worth keeping, burning, or sharing (due to poor quality), and in the user's opinion, shouldn't further pollute the trading pool by way of continued uploading. If one were then to delete that show/torrent, one might only have obtained a show-specific .17 ratio, for example. This can't be recouped for that deleted show, and that .17 ratio becomes a detriment to the user's overall ratio (as tracked by TTD), when in fact, he/she is doing the community a small favor by not enabling the spread of a crappy show. Other times, after a torrent's seeds/leeches drop to 0, and remains there for a number of days, that torrent is likewise deleted, though its individual ratio may still be well less than 1.00, but it is still available to meet reseed and B&P requests. Unfortunately, the typical flamer would prefer to spin that as being the horrible leecher "taking as much as possible, while giving next to nothing", which to many of us is much like Dubya saying "we've got to attack them there so they won't attack us here". Sorry, but we just know better. And, once someone seeds or uploads a show, it's out there, and the seeder has gotten his/her jollies, quite justifiably, for having offered it up. Various people then tap into that torrent and share the obtained music in their preferred, individual ways - there are indeed many shades of gray in this world. So in this format, it's not about taking versus giving back (equally) so much as it is about using current technology to acquire audio and video from a wealth of different sources, then redistributing that music, in various different ways, to other people who maybe aren't so fortunate or capable. Expected giving is just not a very cool thing, no matter how you look at it. It's kind of like feeling obligated to tithe 10% of your meager income to the local church, merely because that's their expectation of you and everybody does it, rather than because it’s something you freely elect to do or even can physically manage to do.

3) Some folks have great upload/download bandwidth. Good for them. Some do not, so they acquire what they can, when they can. Some, like me, have a pretty good download speed, but a very restrictive upload cap (mine is limited to about 28K, less than 10% of my maximum download speed). So any time my BT client is running, I am uploading at my maximum capacity, regardless of the number of torrents I have uploading at any given time. If I were to stop all of my downloading in order to capitulate to one selfish moron’s attempted browbeating of me to raise my ratio by uploading only, then guess what? I’m still only uploading at 28K, so that my rate (speed) of contribution to other downloaders remains exactly the same. And, I've been running nearly 24/7 since January 07. (Sorry, flamers, I just can't afford T1 right now in order to keep you happy.) Stopping the downloading, therefore, serves no rational, contributory purpose at all – it just curtails the acquisition and redistribution of new music, but in no way speeds the overall upload process. "Looking back to help others" (with reseed requests), while sounding noble, also corrects nothing ratio-wise because the upload rate remains the same no matter what combination of torrents I might choose to upload to (today I have 11 active ones). Just to illustrate how arbitrary and abused the ratio issue is, and how truly dense and cyber-power-hungry some of these non-mod gooberbrains can be: One challenged user recently had the gall to dictate to me that I should stop downloading until my ratio rises to at least 50%. To which I must ask – Based on what published mandate? And – Who died and left you dog-catcher, eh? Or - Is this some new standard you’ve just now conceived of and applied all by your smug little self? Impressive. So glad to hear it. Thanks again for the suggestion. Not.

4) If one were to halt downloads in order to increase ratio, that would mean one has temporarily stopped accumulating new material. Torrents die, such that by doing so you’d also increase the chances of missing out on one or more good shows as a result, such that you’d perhaps occasionally request a reseed, such that some other mindless flamer might well then decide to again stretch his puny ego by snooping into your stats and harping on you and your ratio. What fun!! So, I say to anyone reading this: People upload because it’s their hobby and they enjoy it. Other people download because it’s their hobby and they enjoy it. Still other people B&P like crazy, or simply burn and give away discs to special, grateful people who love the music, but don’t have the time, interest, and/or capability to download and burn it themselves - because it’s their hobby and they enjoy it! TTD is but one small facet on the face of a much larger trading/giving community concept that kind of mirrors the old Rastafarian philosophy of “from those that have, to those that have not”. That is, you should endeavor to share what you take, where you can, when you can, and with whomever you can, without any regard to some other person’s rate of sharing or giving, or their misguided expectations of you. This is the true spirit of “sharing the music”, and TTD would be a much better, kinder place without the few demented flamers who seem to believe otherwise, and routinely spoil it for everyone else, just for their squeaky little voices to be heard. I think that tossing out the ratio concept altogether would be highly constructive in removing an unfortunate opportunity for some sad souls to unfairly judge so many others who are just trying their best, and allow people of all shades to merge into the mosaic, in whatever fashion their individual preferences will support, effectively eliminating all this phony and unnecessary hierarchy garbage. That's what freedom is.

Happy Trading and Happy Sharing


P.S. - If you're a reader who keeps getting flamed by puffed-up jokers who have nothing better to do, no matter your effort to upload within the constraints of your particular system and/or budget, please jump in and say what you think. It's important for you to be heard rather than allowing that ratio flamer shit to, in any way, intimidate you into apologizing for your numbers. These people should be wholly ashamed, just like those now running our country (into the ground). Every kilobyte uploaded is a positive contribution from you to this system and community, regardless of what you receive from it, and as a recipient of some really good stuff, I, my friends, my family, and many receiving acquaintances are extremely thankful! :clap:
nice ratio :rolleyes:

saltman
2007-05-03, 06:13 PM
I'll preface my statements with I really don't get bent out of shape about ratios.

You clearly don't understand what a community is about (and rasta for that matter.) Do you think people would single you out if you had contributed anything to this site? I don't think so. You have no uploads, no vines started, no b+ps, etc. You are a leech plain and simple (and self-confessed at that.)

There are many leeches here. Your mouth is just a lot bigger than the others. Since you obviously get bent out of shape about who you are, I would recommend contributing in someway other than your rhetoric. Believe me we've heard it before.

Or just sit back and take what you deserve. That's ok too.

Chachi420
2007-05-03, 06:51 PM
cast your votes!

http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=37675

ssquirrel
2007-05-04, 12:05 AM
Oh please, Dudogger. You seem to think it's ok to not upload because it's not convenient for you. Do you think everyone who uploads does it because it's really easy for them? Some of us do it because we feel we have an obligation to share back. If no one went out of their way to upload, you wouldn't have anything to leech off of.

The LEAST you could do thank the people who've uploaded the hundreds of gigs worth of shows that you've downloaded by posting "thanks" but you don't even do that!


As a Mod posted above, what are YOU contributing to this community? You talk a lot about sharing.. so Dudogger.. how you are giving back to the Trader's Den?

Phishblowz
2007-05-04, 08:08 AM
the point that people don't get is that the more popular the site gets, the more trash we attract...like the dead in 89....they lost the privelidge to play some of the more sacred venues because of the lack of respect of the "party crowd" that really couldn't care less about the scene

we let this kind of trash ruin the GD scene and turn it into Deer Creek 95 :disbelief when will it stop...at what point do we put the foot down and stop the disrespectful from destroying what a few good people worked so hard to create :hmm:

this attitude is driving away the people this site was designed to attract in the first place...do we allow the good ones to slip away because of the rights of those who have no respect :hmm:

I just think some kind of enforcement is appropriate...maybe just .25 or .50, but something on record to show that there is a limit to the abuse...we require a high standard for our uploads to ensure the best possible torrents, so why not expect the same quality from the members that we expect from the torrents...just my .02, for whatever it's worth

schmoe75
2007-05-04, 10:06 AM
1) The arbitrary 1.00 ratio guideline is just that - and one that is not attainable to many users who nonetheless still contribute in a very positive way. Thus TTD's suggestion that those who can't achieve 1.00 should try to B&P, vine, and so on. I imagine that a large number of participants, like me, are doing just that?
It is attainable. Instead of downloading 11 shows at once, you download one, wait until you have uploaded the same amount of data back to other people, then download another show.
You have offered NO vines, b&p's, or freebies here.

2) Occasionally, one downloads a show that is not worth keeping, burning, or sharing (due to poor quality), and in the user's opinion, shouldn't further pollute the trading pool by way of continued uploading.
With all the appropriate info provided on a torrent, the user makes the decision as to whether a show meets their standard of quality and choose to dl or not, NOT YOU!

3) Some folks have great upload/download bandwidth. Good for you. mine is limited to about 28K...I’m still only uploading at 28K, so that my rate (speed) of contribution to other downloaders remains exactly the same. upload rate remains the same no matter what combination of torrents I might choose to upload to (today I have 11 active ones).
Refer to prior comment. Instead of downloading 11 shows at once, you download 1, upload the same amount you downloaded of that show, then start another torrent. 28K uploads right at 2 gigs in a 24 hour period. It's not about how fast your connection is, its what you do with it. You download 10 shows at a time, leech & run, thereby in, its 'unattainable' for you to have a 1:1 ratio

Some folks have great upload/download bandwidth. Some do not, so they acquire what they can, when they can.
There is this thing, its called the United States Postal Service. They sell envelopes & these things called stamps. If you fill out the envelope with an address, put stamps on it, put discs in it, & mail it to someone you've discussed a trade with, they will send you an envelope with stamps and discs in return. This may come as news, but in the time it takes to download a 4 gig show & upload back 4 gigs, someone can burn 10-20 discs and trade them.
SHOCKING...I know

4) If one were to halt downloads in order to increase ratio, that would mean one has temporarily stopped accumulating new material.
Breaking News....the world is coming to an end because Dudogger didn't acquire something new today.

Still other people (including me) B&P like crazy,
Happy Trading and Happy Sharing
If you only did either of those :rolleyes:

http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/member.php?userid=145598
Facts are:
Join Date: 12-27-06
Downloaded: 558.74 GB - Uploaded: 117.39 GB (0.21 ratio)
NO vines started by user
NO B&Ps offered by user
NO Torrents uploaded by user
12 out of 24 posts by user are "can i get a reseed" type comments
500+ gigs leeched in less than 4 months with nothing offered in return

k.crabbe
2007-05-04, 12:34 PM
As a newbie here I'll put in my .02 cents. I have a .70 ratio. Been here since 4/16. This site has BY FAR been the easiest to get my ratio going upward. The sheer volume and variety of torrents is astounding. I average about 85 kb/s down and about 20-25 up if things are flowing freely. Having a good ratio is important to me and I'm sure I'll be above 1 in the coming months. The reason it is (and should be) important to everyone is that this is a music SHARING site. We, as a community, share. That's what it's all about. It's really quite simple. I understand that some people can't share as much as others. That's fine. Those who just won't share are not people I want to be associated with, in person or by internet. There are a bunch of shows here I want. Once I get a good ratio I'll download one or two a week while downloading a current show to keep the pipes flowing both ways. I could find 10 shows easy to download now. Why be greedy? How much can I listen to anyway? Just a few rambling thoughts.--Kurt

Dudogger
2007-05-04, 02:41 PM
Yawn :yawn:

Phishblowz
2007-05-04, 05:35 PM
Yawn :yawn:

I wouldn't expect a conversation on decency and ethics to interest you :rolleyes:

but it furthers the cause of banning douchebags like yourself...it's not even so much the ratio issue (which is an inexcusable disgrace) but the arrogance with which you carry yourself, as though you have a right to be such an ass and we are a bunch of dicks for calling you out on it...what makes you so special??? should we thank you for leeching our shit??? :hmm:

I know some folks out there with poor ratios that make a point to be humble and thank the seeders for every torrent, but to be a worthless leech in our community AND to have such arrogance is offensive, and even if there is no ban for ratios, YOU personally shouldn't be allowed to have membership here, regardless of your ratio, just cause you're a disrespectful little bitch :nono:

ssquirrel
2007-05-04, 06:38 PM
Yawn :yawn:
:finger:

Festafarian
2007-05-04, 06:55 PM
Yawn :yawn:

Bad enough that you don't share with the community, but that's your answer when you're confronted with it? :disbelief

You made a few good points about ratios. I promise that if you offered up some vines or B&Ps, you wouldn't get flamed. My upload speed sucks too. I don't even try to upload, but I give back in other ways.

You would be surprised how it comes back to you. i have done tons of B&Ps and have had people send me things in appreciation, and made lots of good trade buddies.

Sami Dunn
2007-05-04, 08:01 PM
Yawn :yawn:

What a dick.
I have not offered up any vines,B&Ps,or freebies. I'm ignorant to the whole mailing stuff out thing. I have a good excuse though, I'm a quadriplegic and I mostly don't have someone to handle my mail for me. Every second my computer's online I'm seeding for this community though. I'm also constantly burning shows for family & friends which in turn are copied for their friends and familys. The only thing I don't have an excuse for is my 0.17 post average.

Phishblowz
2007-05-04, 10:21 PM
Bad enough that you don't share with the community, but that's your answer when you're confronted with it? :disbelief

You made a few good points about ratios. I promise that if you offered up some vines or B&Ps, you wouldn't get flamed. My upload speed sucks too. I don't even try to upload, but I give back in other ways.

You would be surprised how it comes back to you. i have done tons of B&Ps and have had people send me things in appreciation, and made lots of good trade buddies.

your upload sucks, and you make up for it other ways...which I know personally (thanx again) and yet you still manage a 1.0 ratio and you "don't even try to upload" so even the best excuse is nothing but a worthless excuse...now that doesn't mean "1 to 1 or you better run" or anything real hardcore, but there is a limit to what is excusable...and letting people run rampant and take endlessly with no efforts to give back is harmful to the progress of this community...if someone like you cn keep a 1:1 with virtually no effort, than how can someone fall below a .25 and honestly say they respect and appreciate the efforts of the others...it's simply disrespectful and inexcusable...I don't know for sure what ratio should put you in this category of members, but this dude is certainly in that category (more for his attitude than anything else too) :disbelief

please let your voice be heard in the poll elsewhere in this forum...maybe we can actually DO something instead of just grumbling about it :cool:

possessed
2007-05-05, 03:14 AM
Some, like me, have a pretty good download speed, but a very restrictive upload cap (mine is limited to about 28K, less than 10% of my maximum download speed).
My download speed is 500 and upload is 50 give or take few bytes. Some how I managed to get my ratio up. And I download from several torrent sites. And I have a 1+ ratio at all of them. Guess your argument is nothing but you trying to explain to the community why you must get but giving is just a nice by-product of you accidently leaving a torrent running longer than it took to download. It's a good think Lynne hasn't made me a MOD. I'd end up pruning losers like you left and right. Be happy Lynne's got a heart the size of Alaska.

My .02 and then some.

AAR.oner
2007-05-05, 07:16 AM
do you ever have those moments when you wish this online community could materialize into a real 3dimensional space, lets say the pub maybe...that way all the wankers with their assanine opinions. greedy justifications, and complete lack of respect for the community could be served a healthy dose of some SHUTTHEFUCKUP! pint glass to the head style

[i should probly be de-modded Lynne, maybe take a break from online trading...leechers are beginning to make me violent :lol: ]

possessed
2007-05-05, 07:25 AM
do you ever have those moments when you wish this online community could materialize into a real 3dimensional space, lets say the pub maybe...that way all the wankers with their assanine opinions. greedy justifications, and complete lack of respect for the community could be served a healthy dose of some SHUTTHEFUCKUP! pint glass to the head style

[i should probly be de-modded Lynne, maybe take a break from online trading...leechers are beginning to make me violent :lol: ]
Some day I'm gonna travel to the mountains of crackalackee and smack you in the mouth. Then, you, me and Heather are gonna laugh for hours on end whilst drinking PBR and jamming to Ska Punk and old school rap. But I digress, you have a point well taken. :D

AAR.oner
2007-05-05, 08:45 AM
Some day I'm gonna travel to the mountains of crackalackee and smack you in the mouth. Then, you, me and Heather are gonna laugh for hours on end whilst drinking PBR and jamming to Ska Punk and old school rap. But I digress, you have a point well taken. :D
bring it bitch! i got some warm pabst cans from last summer's fest run just for you ;)

possessed
2007-05-05, 08:06 PM
:drool mmmmm,warm PBR

:lol

Jerzeemon
2007-05-05, 09:25 PM
Yawn :yawn:

Holy Bejeezsus Mon Shit,
If you put one quarter of your mental energy into not being defensive and rationalizing, we'd all be sooooooooo much better off.................not to mention above a 1.00
Jerz

ssquirrel
2007-05-05, 10:22 PM
do you ever have those moments when you wish this online community could materialize into a real 3dimensional space, lets say the pub maybe...that way all the wankers with their assanine opinions.
Yeah I agree. People use the internet as a way of saying retarded things that they would never say in real life :grr:

Open up a can of whoop-ass on em! :thumbsup

But... since this only the internet all we can do is BRING DOWN THE BANHAMMER! :cool:

Phishblowz
2007-05-05, 11:58 PM
But... since this only the internet all we can do is BRING DOWN THE BANHAMMER! :cool:

unfortunately, all we can do is request the BANHAMMER...but thanx for your support...I think it's time for spring cleaning...let's take out the trash :D

Silver Stallion DVDs
2007-05-06, 11:22 AM
I don't give a fuck about ratios. I never look to see what ratio someone has attained and I never check to see what they've given back or taken by other means. I just film shows when I have a chance, author them to DVD, and upload them. And occasionally I download shows that look interesting.

If people download a show I've uploaded and don't say thank you - I don't give a fuck. I do, however, appreciate actual comments (both positive and critical) about the upload itself, i.e., the show, the way it was filmed or authored, etc.

Beyond that... I really don't think that worrying about ratios is worth the time.

Randy

Festafarian
2007-05-07, 01:01 AM
do you ever have those moments when you wish this online community could materialize into a real 3dimensional space, lets say the pub maybe...that way all the wankers with their assanine opinions. greedy justifications, and complete lack of respect for the community could be served a healthy dose of some SHUTTHEFUCKUP! pint glass to the head style

[i should probly be de-modded Lynne, maybe take a break from online trading...leechers are beginning to make me violent :lol: ]

Well said! :cheers:
You really gotta come see us... we got PBRs for $2.

We'll let you work the barricade at some hardcore show. Throwing kids back into the crowd for a coupla hours will get rid of some of that aggression. :lol

Dudogger
2007-05-07, 04:45 PM
I don't give a fuck about ratios. I never look to see what ratio someone has attained and I never check to see what they've given back or taken by other means. I just film shows when I have a chance, author them to DVD, and upload them. And occasionally I download shows that look interesting.

If people download a show I've uploaded and don't say thank you - I don't give a fuck. I do, however, appreciate actual comments (both positive and critical) about the upload itself, i.e., the show, the way it was filmed or authored, etc.

Beyond that... I really don't think that worrying about ratios is worth the time.

Randy

And this coming from a guy with a real u/l contribution under his belt, who, as I've said, derives his pleasure from the quality offerings he makes! How refreshing. Thanks for the unexpected support, I think.

**************************************************

I find that a couple of days out in mother nature is far superior to sitting in front of the monitor wringing one's hands about what some unknown forum groupie has opined, and chomping at the bit to get back at them. For that matter, I'd rather have a hemorrhoidectomy.

Unfortunately, I had to come back, so this reply mainly addresses U2Lynne's post, which was pretty much the only one I saw that contained anything more than the monotonous drumbeat of hapless souls, striving to achieve artificial levels of control, while quoting dutifully from their handy TTD playbooks. Really guys, I've read it all before, many times over, and it only serves to make you sound like a 9th-gen cassette recording of a bunch of starving cats locked in a hot U-Haul. Try fishing, it's good for your head!

Just a couple of specific comments, though:

Phishblowz - More pablum, as expected, but you sound like such a good soldier in the war of 'Us versus Them'. You spew out the company lines with such ease and venom. How amusing then, to read your recent Band posts over at Lossless Legs, where you cop the persona of 'I'm the new guy, please like me', and then, when you get precious litte return backpatting, you go back in to grovel for accolades. Perhaps it occurred to you later that going to LL with a name like Phishblowz was maybe not so advisable, eh? But, I see where you're coming from, regardless of the Divide and Conquer posture you portray here. I guess you gotta get those warm & fuzzys however you can, though so many others can derive their satisfaction more squarely from initiating a quality upload/sharing process - without needing the drivel of followup thankybabble in order to justify the effort (e.g., Silver Stallion).

Chachi - Just what I like: concise and to the point. Good job not wasting the reader's time with the same old tired rehash one seems to encounter in most every other thread on this site. I admire the restraint.

k.crabbe - So what? Are you therefore suggesting that if we all would do things just like you the BT world will become all hunky-dory?

ssquirrel - "Ok not to upload because it's not convenient for me"? I think you've swallowed too much blotter, buddy. As I explained, I always upload at the fastest allowable rate, and close to 24/7, even when on the road. Where in the world did you conjure up this nonsense about my convenience from? Yikes!

schmoe - I'm impressed by the time that you clearly invested in picking snippets of text out of my earlier post, so as to use them out of context in order ride on your soapbox once again. I'll bet the Bill O'Reilly factor could use some additional help. A couple of typical examples: 1) When I say I have 11 active torrents on my BT client, you instantly infer that I'm downloading them all simultaneously, using that as one of many dubious reasons to go off. How silly. I was only making the point that I have a number of good shows residing on my hard drive/BT client that I can upload at different times, often according to demand, and always at my maximum allowable upload speed. However, statistically speaking, if someone is uploading under a dismal 28 K cap, but is at max speed, it shouldn't matter how many torrents he uploads to. Whether you're upping to one torrent at 28K, or 4 torrents at an average of 7K, you're still putting back at 28K, and the cumulative contribution back to the community as a whole is just the same. Grasp the math, or go lecture someone else who doesn't know better. 2) When I reference B&P and sharing, and you see fit to announce to the world that I've done neither, your sheer arrogance is what allows you to make the unfounded assumption that I only B&P through TTD or that I don't share, just because it's not trackable by your snooping eyes. News Flash - If you had read more than every third sentence of my original post, you would have seen the part about sharing with many who are less fortunate or capable than I. At TTD, and other places, I only trade discs via PM or e-mail - my choice, unless there's something in the TTD manual I missed. Not that it's anyone's business, but the last one I mailed out via TTD was a copy of the 2001 Neil Diamond A&E show, burned and mailed to a nice TTD member in CA after the torrent had gone inactive, who then sent me some good stuff in return. Too bad if this all escaped your prying eyes. Btw, in my experience B&P is best used to describe the concept of "Burn & Post", where you copy and send out shows, with no selfish consideration whatsoever of what you might get in return. This is what sharing is, my friend, and as I said before, I can't upload any faster than my system physically allows, just to appease a few misguided jokers in the crowd who think that sharing equates to curtailing your downloads (an entirely separate undertaking - see below).

U2LYNNE - Simply stated, displaying an unenforced ratio 'benchmark' breeds animosity (readily apparent, given the responses I've gotten), which would seem to me to be entirely contrary to the ideals of a quality trading site. What I've observed over the past few months here is an almost vigilante attitude by some towards others, for one clear reason: the 1.00 'guideline'. Seems that many who 'have' have self-deputized themselves against those who 'have not' or 'have less', without regard to circumstances. On top of it, I view an unenforced ratio concept as the enabler of this problem. As one who was raised near ground zero of the civil rights struggle, and reside there still, I have to say I'm seeing an ugly parallel here, somewhat analagous to the days of my youth where, if you were white, all was okay, regardless of what you had or did. But a person of ethnicity often endured a crush of racism that was in direct proportion to the depth of his own color. And thus it is with the red ratio numbers, and the scarlett letter-style of display that puts them out there for people to discriminate against, at will.

My opinion is this: Downloads and uploads are not diametrical opposites. As I said once before, once a new upload is complete, and is being shared around, it's out there, plain and simple, and thus is the gift that keeps on giving - to a point. Downloads shouldn't, in any way, be used as a measure of contribution to the community, which is happening now by way of ratios. Here's a good analogy, I think:

A man plants a cherry tree in a place which, 30 years hence, becomes a community park, regularly patronized by the same now-old man. By now the tree is lush with ripe cherries each season, and the old man watches lovingly from a nearby park bench as children come around to gleefully fill their buckets with free cherries. They never knew he was the one who planted the tree, but he always encouraged them to take as much as they could, before the cherries were gone, deriving his only thanks from the absolute numbers of children who came around to partake of his gift. Neither would he generally be aware of how many people associated with those children would also enjoy the picked cherries after they were taken home. Then, a few of the children, who had slightly larger buckets on those picking days, were able to take excess cherries over to their needy elderly neighbors to enjoy, in that they would never be able to pick cherries themselves. They were exceedingly grateful to the children for the gift of cherries, even though the children had not planted the tree, but had merely brought some of the cherries home for all to enjoy. And for that, the old man who planted the cherry tree had all the thanks he would ever need in life.

[The analogies, especially for those that didn't make it all the way through my impromptu parable, are this: the old man is the original uploader; the cherry tree is the torrent; the children are us; the cherries are completed downloads; watching happy children pick equates to the uploader who is happy by the number of his upload's completes; giving cherries, or show seeds, or burned shows on discs to others is true sharing - something that an original uploader should be additionally proud of, without browbeating a cherry-giver based on some arbitrary, but expected, return giving. (The Moral: Receiving comes fairly easily, but giving takes an individual's conscious decision and effort to do so, each contributing to the extent of his/her ability, without criticism, because that's all one can really do. That's community.)]

Thanks, U2Lynne, I'm well-familiar with etree, lossless legs, dime, purelivegigs, rusties, etc., and their various criteria, and am long-since registered at many of those, as well as use the straight d/l sites like Live Music Archive. I go where the quality music is, rather than seeking any particular kind of community, but if one's a good community, that's a bonus. Saying, 'well, if you don't like it here, you should go somewhere else' does not really apply, because I like much of the music available here, just not the negativity I sometimes have to wade through to obtain it. I probably discard one in every four or five downloaded shows, just because it's video and/or audio quality does not make for something I'd ever watch again (regardless of how the original seeder may have described its quality). I realize it impacts my ratio every time I do this, but since I believe ratio to be an invalid concept, unless enforced equally for all, that's not very relevant. Since, to me, it really is about maximizing my upload speed, and not ever about "taking only what I want, then leaving before giving anything back" (a ludicrous, overused statement that's much like "you're either with me, or against me". Where do you suppose the 122+ GB I've contributed back has gone? Perhaps it was sucked up the black hole of Phishblowz's ass, benefitting no one, forevermore, eh?).

I also have to say thanks for the suggestion about contacting my ISP. While I found they do not constrict my upload speed based on volume downloaded, I was in a fortuitous position to take timely advantage of a service preview which should serve to at least double my upload speed for the remainder of 2007. As of this morning, I was getting upwards of 60K in upload speed, which is really more like it compared to my previous 28K. And, it will upload at this speed whenever my BT client is on, as always. For anyone reading this who has Charter Hi-Speed, but has not received this recent upgrade preview, I highly recommend you contact them for a free alteration of your modem settings. The imbeciles may try to charge you more, like they did me, but let them know that you know that this is a free preview promoted by Charter - and don't take any of their lame garbage!

I don't spend my time reading many old posts, and maybe this has been proposed before, but what I would suggest is that you convert to more of an ebay-style format, where everyone starts at zero and works up through various thresholds. Instead of ebay colored stars, maybe you'd use musical notes or something. But the idea would be based on a public display of absolute upload volume, only (say, for every 100GB uploaded, towards a 1TB gold star, for example). This way, you accentuate achievement of contribution to the community without any 'relative deficits' even figuring in. Viable alternatives would be to either privatize the statistics, or begin enforcing ratio in some fashion. Sometimes, the happy middle-ground just doesn't work so ideally as conceived, and perhaps needs a little tweaking on occasion. As such, I hope you'll accept this as constructively-intended commentary on my experiences with TTD, regardless of the vitriol flying around us. It's often only through honest feedback that we can affect positive change, and that's what this has been about.

In the meantime, I say just move the music folks, to the best of your ability, individually. That's all we each need to be doing here, without creating and applying false standards with which to measure ourselves against others we don't really know very well. This isn't the Army, where the shit really does flow downstream. The creepy, backbiting environment fostered here is just not where a lot of pure music lovers will want to spend their time.

Happy Trails -

Dudogger, of the
Ratio Manifesto


P.S. - If you'd like to discuss the validity of unenforced ratio, and put up a synopsis of why it's actually a good and constructive thing, please have your say - I'd really love to read more than one intelligible response!

Alternately, for those of you who only know to insult, you may now resume. :wave:

saltman
2007-05-07, 04:54 PM
And this coming from a guy with a real u/l contribution under his belt, who, as I've said, derives his pleasure from the quality offerings he makes! How refreshing. Thanks for the unexpected support, I think.

**************************************************

I find that a couple of days out in mother nature is far superior to sitting in front of the monitor wringing one's hands about what some unknown forum groupie has opined, and chomping at the bit to get back at them. For that matter, I'd rather have a hemorrhoidectomy.

Unfortunately, I had to come back, so this reply mainly addresses U2Lynne's post, which was pretty much the only one I saw that contained anything more than the monotonous drumbeat of hapless souls, striving to achieve artificial levels of control, while quoting dutifully from their handy TTD playbooks. Really guys, I've read it all before, many times over, and it only serves to make you sound like a 9th-gen cassette recording of a bunch of starving cats locked in a hot U-Haul. Try fishing, it's good for your head!

Just a couple of specific comments, though:

Phishblowz - More pablum, as expected, but you sound like such a good soldier in the war of 'Us versus Them'. You spew out the company lines with such ease and venom. How amusing then, to read your recent Band posts over at Lossless Legs, where you cop the persona of 'I'm the new guy, please like me', and then, when you get precious litte return backpatting, you go back in to grovel for accolades. Perhaps it occurred to you later that going to LL with a name like Phishblowz was maybe not so advisable, eh? But, I see where you're coming from, regardless of the Divide and Conquer posture you portray here. I guess you gotta get those warm & fuzzys however you can, though so many others can derive their satisfaction more squarely from initiating a quality upload/sharing process - without needing the drivel of followup thankybabble in order to justify the effort (e.g., Silver Stallion).

Chachi - Just what I like: concise and to the point. Good job not wasting the reader's time with the same old tired rehash one seems to encounter in most every other thread on this site. I admire the restraint.

k.crabbe - So what? Are you therefore suggesting that if we all would do things just like you the BT world will become all hunky-dory?

ssquirrel - "Ok not to upload because it's not convenient for me"? I think you've swallowed too much blotter, buddy. As I explained, I always upload at the fastest allowable rate, and close to 24/7, even when on the road. Where in the world did you conjure up this nonsense about my convenience from? Yikes!

schmoe - I'm impressed by the time that you clearly invested in picking snippets of text out of my earlier post, so as to use them out of context in order ride on your soapbox once again. I'll bet the Bill O'Reilly factor could use some additional help. A couple of typical examples: 1) When I say I have 11 active torrents on my BT client, you instantly infer that I'm downloading them all simultaneously, using that as one of many dubious reasons to go off. How silly. I was only making the point that I have a number of good shows residing on my hard drive/BT client that I can upload at different times, often according to demand, and always at my maximum allowable upload speed. However, statistically speaking, if someone is uploading under a dismal 28 K cap, but is at max speed, it shouldn't matter how many torrents he uploads to. Whether you're upping to one torrent at 28K, or 4 torrents at an average of 7K, you're still putting back at 28K, and the cumulative contribution back to the community as a whole is just the same. Grasp the math, or go lecture someone else who doesn't know better. 2) When I reference B&P and sharing, and you see fit to announce to the world that I've done neither, your sheer arrogance is what allows you to make the unfounded assumption that I only B&P through TTD or that I don't share, just because it's not trackable by your snooping eyes. News Flash - If you had read more than every third sentence of my original post, you would have seen the part about sharing with many who are less fortunate or capable than I. At TTD, and other places, I only trade discs via PM or e-mail - my choice, unless there's something in the TTD manual I missed. Not that it's anyone's business, but the last one I mailed out via TTD was a copy of the 2001 Neil Diamond A&E show, burned and mailed to a nice TTD member in CA after the torrent had gone inactive, who then sent me some good stuff in return. Too bad if this all escaped your prying eyes. Btw, in my experience B&P is best used to describe the concept of "Burn & Post", where you copy and send out shows, with no selfish consideration whatsoever of what you might get in return. This is what sharing is, my friend, and as I said before, I can't upload any faster than my system physically allows, just to appease a few misguided jokers in the crowd who think that sharing equates to curtailing your downloads (an entirely separate undertaking - see below).

U2LYNNE - Simply stated, displaying an unenforced ratio 'benchmark' breeds animosity (readily apparent, given the responses I've gotten), which would seem to me to be entirely contrary to the ideals of a quality trading site. What I've observed over the past few months here is an almost vigilante attitude by some towards others, for one clear reason: the 1.00 'guideline'. Seems that many who 'have' have self-deputized themselves against those who 'have not' or 'have less', without regard to circumstances. On top of it, I view an unenforced ratio concept as the enabler of this problem. As one who was raised near ground zero of the civil rights struggle, and reside there still, I have to say I'm seeing an ugly parallel here, somewhat analagous to the days of my youth where, if you were white, all was okay, regardless of what you had or did. But a person of ethnicity often endured a crush of racism that was in direct proportion to the depth of his own color. And thus it is with the red ratio numbers, and the scarlett letter-style of display that puts them out there for people to discriminate against, at will.

My opinion is this: Downloads and uploads are not diametrical opposites. As I said once before, once a new upload is complete, and is being shared around, it's out there, plain and simple, and thus is the gift that keeps on giving - to a point. Downloads shouldn't, in any way, be used as a measure of contribution to the community, which is happening now by way of ratios. Here's a good analogy, I think:

A man plants a cherry tree in a place which, 30 years hence, becomes a community park, regularly patronized by the same now-old man. By now the tree is lush with ripe cherries each season, and the old man watches lovingly from a nearby park bench as children come around to gleefully fill their buckets with free cherries. They never knew he was the one who planted the tree, but he always encouraged them to take as much as they could, before the cherries were gone, deriving his only thanks from the absolute numbers of children who came around to partake of his gift. Neither would he generally be aware of how many people associated with those children would also enjoy the picked cherries after they were taken home. Then, a few of the children, who had slightly larger buckets on those picking days, were able to take excess cherries over to their needy elderly neighbors to enjoy, in that they would never be able to pick cherries themselves. They were exceedingly grateful to the children for the gift of cherries, even though the children had not planted the tree, but had merely brought some of the cherries home for all to enjoy. And for that, the old man who planted the cherry tree had all the thanks he would ever need in life.

[The analogies, especially for those that didn't make it all the way through my impromptu parable, are this: the old man is the original uploader; the cherry tree is the torrent; the children are us; the cherries are completed downloads; watching happy children pick equates to the uploader who is happy by the number of his upload's completes; giving cherries, or show seeds, or burned shows on discs to others is true sharing - something that an original uploader should be additionally proud of, without browbeating a cherry-giver based on some arbitrary, but expected, return giving. (The Moral: Receiving comes fairly easily, but giving takes an individual's conscious decision and effort to do so, each contributing to the extent of his/her ability, without criticism, because that's all one can really do. That's community.)]

Thanks, U2Lynne, I'm well-familiar with etree, lossless legs, dime, purelivegigs, rusties, etc., and their various criteria, and am long-since registered at many of those, as well as use the straight d/l sites like Live Music Archive. I go where the quality music is, rather than seeking any particular kind of community, but if one's a good community, that's a bonus. Saying, 'well, if you don't like it here, you should go somewhere else' does not really apply, because I like much of the music available here, just not the negativity I sometimes have to wade through to obtain it. I probably discard one in every four or five downloaded shows, just because it's video and/or audio quality does not make for something I'd ever watch again (regardless of how the original seeder may have described its quality). I realize it impacts my ratio every time I do this, but since I believe ratio to be an invalid concept, unless enforced equally for all, that's not very relevant. Since, to me, it really is about maximizing my upload speed, and not ever about "taking only what I want, then leaving before giving anything back" (a ludicrous, overused statement that's much like "you're either with me, or against me". Where do you suppose the 122+ GB I've contributed back has gone? Perhaps it was sucked up the black hole of Phishblowz's ass, benefitting no one, forevermore, eh?).

I also have to say thanks for the suggestion about contacting my ISP. While I found they do not constrict my upload speed based on volume downloaded, I was in a fortuitous position to take timely advantage of a service preview which should serve to at least double my upload speed for the remainder of 2007. As of this morning, I was getting upwards of 60K in upload speed, which is really more like it compared to my previous 28K. And, it will upload at this speed whenever my BT client is on, as always. For anyone reading this who has Charter Hi-Speed, but has not received this recent upgrade preview, I highly recommend you contact them for a free alteration of your modem settings. The imbeciles may try to charge you more, like they did me, but let them know that you know that this is a free preview promoted by Charter - and don't take any of their lame garbage!

I don't spend my time reading many old posts, and maybe this has been proposed before, but what I would suggest is that you convert to more of an ebay-style format, where everyone starts at zero and works up through various thresholds. Instead of ebay colored stars, maybe you'd use musical notes or something. But the idea would be based on a public display of absolute upload volume, only (say, for every 100GB uploaded, towards a 1TB gold star, for example). This way, you accentuate achievement of contribution to the community without any 'relative deficits' even figuring in. Viable alternatives would be to either privatize the statistics, or begin enforcing ratio in some fashion. Sometimes, the happy middle-ground just doesn't work so ideally as conceived, and perhaps needs a little tweaking on occasion. As such, I hope you'll accept this as constructively-intended commentary on my experiences with TTD, regardless of the vitriol flying around us. It's often only through honest feedback that we can affect positive change, and that's what this has been about.

In the meantime, I say just move the music folks, to the best of your ability, individually. That's all we each need to be doing here, without creating and applying false standards with which to measure ourselves against others we don't really know very well. This isn't the Army, where the shit really does flow downstream. The creepy, backbiting environment fostered here is just not where a lot of pure music lovers will want to spend their time.

Happy Trails -

Dudogger, of the
Ratio Manifesto


P.S. - If you'd like to discuss the validity of unenforced ratio, and put up a synopsis of why it's actually a good and constructive thing, please have your say - I'd really love to read more than one intelligible response!

Alternately, for those of you who only know to insult, you may now resume. :wave:I feel so un-noticed. :disbelief Couldn't I at least gotten my name in italics.

Dudogger
2007-05-07, 05:49 PM
I feel so un-noticed. :disbelief Couldn't I at least gotten my name in italics.

My bad. Next time, I promise! But you've been here a while. Do tell why a casual ratio method is really the best way. What's the real purpose served? I'm all ears. Help me to wrap my headspace around the theory! :thumbsup

Festafarian
2007-05-07, 06:29 PM
Dudogger,

yeah, yeah.... we get you don't adhere to the ratio thing. but it's been said before and you still ignore the point: "why not B&P, vine or do freebies"? One or 2 freebies and you would never have to answer for your lack of ratio

ssquirrel
2007-05-07, 06:57 PM
*cherry tree analogy*
Interesting comparison (really). Although.. I will say that the cherry tree doesn't just grow magically by itself after the "old man" plants it once. You need to make sure destructive caterpillars and other insects aren't infecting and killing the tree. If there's a drought, you need to make sure the tree is getting enough water, etc. My point is just that after the old man dies, the children need to become adults and step up to help maintain the life of the tree.


I'll address Silver Stallion's post too, not because I'm trying to be confrontational, but I'm just trying to make a point. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that Randy has access to a really high speed internet connection (basing this on the fact that he's uploaded 15 TB). Since he can upload so quickly, then leechers who drop off after completing probably aren't an issue for him. But it is for the rest of us.
Like when Phishblowz for example seeded the Beatles Anthology Director's Cut. Five 8 gig sets. If the first four people who complete drop out in that swarm, it's a big deal, because it means he needs to stay around a lot longer than he thought he would (and that means DAYS longer). For someone like Randy, it wouldn't be as big an inconvenience so I can see where he's coming from. But I can also see where other uploaders are coming from.

When someone isn't close to 1.0 ratio, you could potentially be a very be big nuisance for uploaders or reseeders.

That's great that you're sharing outside of TTD. But when you're coming off as bitchy about getting flamed.. well I think you don't really have a leg to stand on especially considering most torrent sites do enforce ratios. And as everyone else has been saying, if you helped out at this site people wouldn't be too angry.

Phishblowz
2007-05-07, 07:12 PM
I appreciate the fact that much trading and sharing can be done without being acknowledged (via pm and such) and that does help to make things more difficult, and I hate to do it, but I'll have to agree with Dudogger that having ratios with no form of enforcement only leads to this type of problem...what's the point of pointing out how much or little someone does for the community if there is no enforcement...it only serves to agitate those who do so much when those who do so little act like dicks...if there is no "requirements" to be a member here and ratios are meaningless, than we might as well do away with them entirely...however, hiding the fact that someone is always taking and never giving doesn't remedy the problem, it only hides it.

we will simply have to agree to disagree on the sharing issue...you hang on to the claim that you do all you can, but everyone else agrees that you can do more if you choose to...you can do this by sharing more after completion or by taking less and giving more...when I was new I took everything in sight and my ratio paid for it...these days, having gotten so much, I find that I need less and have more time to spend uploading and sharing what I DO take and that boosts the ratio up...yes you upped 122gb and that's great, but when you've downed over 500gb it don't mean much...if I owe the bank $500 and give them $100, I am still in debt to them...they may give me time to pay, but I certainly wouldn't try to convince them that they should be grateful for what I DID pay back...it's not a favor to them...it was they who did me the favor by giving me the money in the first place...now banks have contracts and you know what the deal is when you sign on...that's not the case here, so it may be a bit much to knock you for disregarding a rule that doesn't really exist...but I remain steadfast in the belief that you could improve your ratio if you wanted to...and you've made it clear that you do what you feel is right, and don't care if you're right or wrong, and according to the rules, you don't have to care...my biggest gripe is against the administrators who allow this to happen, it's wrong to blame you for taking advantage of the situation, when it's the fault of the admin for allowing this situation to take place...but IMHO, and the opinion of many here, you are taking advantage of the site...and whether or not you agree is irrelevant

BTW...I don't mind all the kiddies pickin my cherries...but I resent the the snot-nosed brats that complain to me when the cherries are gone as though they are entitled to those cherries...those who take what is available and are happy with it are okay in my book (even if their ratio is poor) but those who complain about the free cherries and are still dissatisfied with what they got for nothing don't deserve the cherries...if those who didn't appreciate the cherries, didn't take them, then there would be more cherries for those who are grateful to have them...in other words, your inability to give back the amount of bandwidth you took to complete the torrent means less bandwidth for the rest of the bunch...and the responsible folks who don't rest on the fact that "they're doing the best they can do" are left sharing more than they should have to to make up for your share...either that or the torrent dies prematurely because there is no one left to share it back out

it's more about attitude than ratios, and not only is your ratio pathetic, but your attitude is even worse...and that's what really makes it obscene...I've never seen someone who has given so little to THIS community seem so proud of themselves, and that's a disgrace :disbelief

saltman
2007-05-07, 07:12 PM
My bad. Next time, I promise! But you've been here a while. Do tell why a casual ratio method is really the best way. What's the real purpose served? I'm all ears. Help me to wrap my headspace around the theory! :thumbsupMy take on the casual ratio system is that it is an attempt to accommodate the most people. It doesn't accommodate the extreme snatch and grabbers and it doesn't accommodate the habitual contributers.... but it makes the most people happy (if you believe in bell curve theory.) The people that share the most and care about it get there name in the lights. The people that snatch and run don't get banned (unless they become vocal and belligerent.) I personally value those that share to a 1.0 higher than those that don't. If I am asked to reseed something or jump on and save a torrent, I am much more likely to do so based on a 1.0 or higher share ratio, regardless of their physical limitations. I also check to see if they are a viner or do B+Ps here for the same reasons. I think many people here do the same. There are many notable members here who have a low to non-existent share ratio that I would drop what I was doing to help out in a second. That's because I know they contribute to the community through their recordings, mastering, or general discussion. I think you are being singled out for many reasons. Why are you so vocal about the ratio policy if it doesn't mean anything to you? People calling you out for it can't be that bad can it? That's part of the community here as far as I see. I think people don't see your contribution and the statements you leave read like you don't care to contribute.

k.crabbe
2007-05-07, 09:02 PM
Dudogger--No I'm not saying that things would be hunky-dory. Just stating the way I see and do things. Simple as that. I'll do things my way and you can do them yours. --Kurt

toys
2007-05-07, 09:52 PM
perhaps the problem isn't that we don't enforce ratios but that other sites do, so people have become trained through memberships at other sites to look towards them as a judge as to who is a good contributor to the community or not. the reason this site doesn't enforce a ratio requirement is that there are just too many other ways to share and give back to the community. there's no more point in forcing people to maintain a certain ratio than there would be to ban people who didn't offer up a certain number of B&P's. ratios are just one of many ways to give someone an idea as to what type of trader you are, and if you're going to keep insisting that users here adhere to the rules of other sites... well, you're most likely just pissing in the wind. hell just look at my ratio - why hasn't anyone ever flamed me for oversharing when its clear that i have personally prevented many a user from being able to reach a respectable level themselves? whole lot of evil oversharers around here, giving back way too much again and again, getting all the leeches to 100% well before the last people to join the torrent have a chance to give a little back.

quit having silly arguments!

oh wait, its the internet... continue as usual.

Silver Stallion DVDs
2007-05-07, 11:16 PM
I'll address Silver Stallion's post too, not because I'm trying to be confrontational, but I'm just trying to make a point. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that Randy has access to a really high speed internet connection
I've never had anything other than a home internet connection. It used to be better than it is now - currently capped at a 220K upload.

Having said that ~ I still don't give a fuck about ratios.

AAR.oner
2007-05-08, 06:52 AM
Well said! :cheers:
You really gotta come see us... we got PBRs for $2.

We'll let you work the barricade at some hardcore show. Throwing kids back into the crowd for a coupla hours will get rid of some of that aggression. :lol
werd! funny thing is, 10 years ago i was that hardcore kid gettin thrown back into the crowd :lol

wanted to come tape that Watain show, but weekdays are difficult...that Low show [opening for Wilco :wtf: ] looks mad dope tho!

paddington
2007-05-08, 11:43 AM
Alternately, for those of you who only know to insult, you may now resume. :wave:

Thanks for typing all that shit... I guess. You were uploading while you were typing, right? Might have been long enough to balance out your ratio a bit.

dcbullet
2007-05-08, 03:20 PM
I've never had anything other than a home internet connection. It used to be better than it is now - currently capped at a 220K upload.

That's pretty damn fast.

freezer
2007-05-08, 04:51 PM
Actually, Dudogger, you are going about this in the wrong way.

Fuck the ratio. Look at my ratio. :rolleyes: .....

The only 2 people to ever complain about my ratio got a horselaugh in their faces.

Don't sweat it.

Take my advice and I'll let you in on how to become one of the inner-circle at TTD.

What you want to do is head over to the Lounge and become a Post Whore.

It's that simple.

Your problems at TTD will be solved.

Become a part of the TTD community without ever having to listen to music ever again! There's Post Whores that are so very integral to the TTD family that still don't have the slightest clue that this is "obstensibly" a music-sharing site.

That will solve your problems, don't fight them .....join them....

Become a Post Whore.



Hey, they let jameskg and dcbullet do it, why not you?

And in order to make your life easier, there's a word association thread in the Lounge that allows you to post replies of one word.

Just think how quickly you too can become a member of the TTD family posting a few thousand times in the Word Association thread. Ask weesam about it.

Hell, I'll even give you a cute word to start with....

"analingus"

.....Try that word in the Lounge's Word Association thread.

You're sure to get some "spirit"-ed replies to THAT word.

yer pal,
freezer

:wave:

______________________________

You apple-knocking pig-fuckers! You don't know shit!

dcbullet
2007-05-08, 06:46 PM
Hey, they let jameskg and dcbullet do it, why not you?

And lookey, you too! :crazy:

direwolf-pgh
2007-05-08, 07:05 PM
blah..blah..blah..

:coffee: I'm sorry.. did you say something

freezer
2007-05-08, 07:53 PM
And lookey, you too! :crazy:


Ahhh, but the difference is that I didn't ask for it ... :wave:

and without a social life, you can't live without it...... :lol

_____________________________________

You wall-eyed apple-knocking pig-fuckers! You don't know shit!

dcbullet
2007-05-08, 08:04 PM
Ahhh, but the difference is that I didn't ask for it ... :wave:

Uhhh, nobody did.

and without a social life, you can't live without it...... :lol

:hmm: :lol

dcbullet
2007-05-08, 08:07 PM
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 4 (4 members and 0 guests)
dcbullet, direwolf-pgh, Beyond N Back, freezer

:wave:

Better get back to that "social life"

:roflol: :roflol:

freezer
2007-05-08, 08:28 PM
AT Today 06:07 PM Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 4 (4 members and 0 guests)
dcbullet, direwolf-pgh, Beyond N Back, freezer

:wave:

Better get back to that "social life"

:roflol: :roflol:

Then at.....All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:12 PM.
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 4 (4 members and 0 guests)
dcbullet, freezer

You know all about that glass house, don't ya, :wave:

Why don't you head back to that word association thread, ol' james-ky's getting grumpy cause its your turn, the word for your turn is "lineage"

:lol :lol :roflol: :roflol:



Don't get upset if its a word you don't comprehend.....

...Just make it up, why be different.
____________________________________________________
Well, then you are calling some serious Led Zep collectors liars.

You wall-eyed apple-knocking pig-fucker! You don't know nothing!

dcbullet
2007-05-08, 08:55 PM
You know all about that glass house, don't ya, :wave:

Since I'm not the one who brought up this mystical "social life" that you attend to instead of post here ( :rolleyes: ), no, I don't know about glass houses.

Read back a couple posts and try to engage your brain.

Why don't you head back to that word association thread, ol' james-ky's getting grumpy cause its your turn, the word for your turn is "lineage"

:lol :lol :roflol: :roflol:



Don't get upset if its a word you don't comprehend.....

...Just make it up, why be different.
____________________________________________________

Oh boy! The old lineage zinger, which has nothing to do with me.

Good one old man. Keep pulling those old, tired, crusty, meaningless insults out of your fetid old brain. Next will come Koolaid, 20 monkeys, why don't you tape your own shows, etc.

Beyond N Back
2007-05-08, 09:32 PM
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 4 (4 members and 0 guests)
dcbullet, direwolf-pgh, Beyond N Back, freezer

:wave:

Better get back to that "social life"

:roflol: :roflol:

I logged on and searched "freezer" to see if there were any new masters uploaded and found this thread (tough read for only 4 pages). I won't defend my social life or lack of, but I do have enough dignity not to ever get spotted lurking in one of those lounge threads. :nono:

Actually had a fairly social day today. Went on a field trip with about 100 high school kids and some volunteer zoologists, botanists and geologists to a few beautiful spots where we tracked different species and collected some interesting data. Nice group of kids and dedicated adults. Listened to a great Larry Raspberry Freezer master on my commute :clap:

Rest of the day won't be too social. Looking forward to watching the second half of the of the Cavs / Nets (I like the Cavs) and then the Spurs / Suns (don't like either, just hoping to see some more blood :wtf: ). I'll probably switch over to NCIS / House / Boston Legal if my girlfriend has her way with the remote.

Almost as boring as getting worked up over share ratios :rolleyes:

freezer
2007-05-08, 10:08 PM
Oh boy! The old lineage zinger, which has nothing to do with me.....


Sorry, bullet, I just looked at your lists, why else bring up lineages?
:lmao:



What's the matter, did that crack about lineages and your list hit too close to home, bullet? :thumbsup

Where's that violin so I can play "My Heart Bleeds For You"...poor baby.... :lol




Well, I'm sure someone in the lounge will explain about the metaphor of "glass houses" or maybe you can ask your junior high's remedial English teacher tommorrow in class.


____________________________________________


You wall-eyed apple-knocking pig-fucker! You don't know nothing!

freezer
2007-05-08, 10:25 PM
I logged on and searched "freezer" to see if there were any new masters uploaded and found this thread (tough read for only 4 pages). I won't defend my social life or lack of, but I do have enough dignity not to ever get spotted lurking in one of those lounge threads. :nono:

Listened to a great Larry Raspberry Freezer master on my commute :clap:


1. New Masters coming soon from the freezer. I recorded 40+ sets from 6 days of the 2007 New Orleans Jazz Fest.

2. Glad you enjoyed the Larry Raspberry.

3. DCBullet lives the Lounge...... :lol

4. The Lou Reed 11/8/74 torrent has disappeared. Why?

5. Nothing new coming from dcbullet except more of his same old gripes.

6. Are you ever going to offer anything ever, dcbullet? That is, except more of your griping.....


(Oh, that wacky bullet....he thinks it's an insult just to ask him when he'll finally contribute something back.....This is the perfect thread for dcbullet to brag about NEVER giving anything back......) :lol

_____________________________________________


Well, then you are calling some serious Led Zep collectors liars.

If the shoe fits......

U2Lynne
2007-05-08, 10:49 PM
4. The Lou Reed 11/8/74 torrent has disappeared. Why?

I know! I know! I know the answer to one of these!!! :wave:

It was an accident! You reported a double post (of yours) in the thread, and the Mod who went to delete the post accidentally hit Delete Thread instead of Delete Post. He was supposed to PM Emilio and explain what happened and ask him to put it back up again.

dcbullet
2007-05-08, 11:42 PM
5. Nothing new coming from dcbullet except more of his same old gripes.

6. Are you ever going to offer anything ever, dcbullet? That is, except more of your griping.....


Maybe you should click on my profile to see what I contribute before you open your mouth.

But thanks for being so predictable.

dcbullet
2007-05-08, 11:44 PM
Sorry, bullet, I just looked at your lists, why else bring up lineages?
:lmao:

What's the matter, did that crack about lineages and your list hit too close to home, bullet? :thumbsup

No Geezer, it doesn't hit home at all, that's why I said it has nothing to do with me. I can tell you get a chubby (Viagra assisted, of course) over the topic though.

dcbullet
2007-05-08, 11:45 PM
I logged on and searched "freezer" to see if there were any new masters uploaded and found this thread (tough read for only 4 pages). I won't defend my social life or lack of, but I do have enough dignity not to ever get spotted lurking in one of those lounge threads. :nono:

Actually had a fairly social day today. Went on a field trip with about 100 high school kids and some volunteer zoologists, botanists and geologists to a few beautiful spots where we tracked different species and collected some interesting data. Nice group of kids and dedicated adults. Listened to a great Larry Raspberry Freezer master on my commute :clap:

Rest of the day won't be too social. Looking forward to watching the second half of the of the Cavs / Nets (I like the Cavs) and then the Spurs / Suns (don't like either, just hoping to see some more blood :wtf: ). I'll probably switch over to NCIS / House / Boston Legal if my girlfriend has her way with the remote.

Almost as boring as getting worked up over share ratios :rolleyes:

Wasn't directed at you, but thanks for the hightlights of you day, sounds like fun.

paddington
2007-05-09, 02:24 AM
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml01/01016.jpg

freezer
2007-05-09, 11:13 AM
Maybe you should click on my profile to see what I contribute before you open your mouth.

But thanks for being so predictable.

:lol :lol :lol :lol

Maybe I did and saw nothing new there ....certainly nothing unique.......





No Geezer, it doesn't hit home at all, that's why I said it has nothing to do with me. I can tell you get a chubby (Viagra assisted, of course) over the topic though.


Wipe your chin, dcGullet.....you still thinking about what you ate for lunch today...... :rolleyes:

dcbullet
2007-05-09, 11:29 AM
:lol :lol :lol :lol

Maybe I did and saw nothing new there ....certainly nothing unique.......



Now geezer, when someone makes you look like an ass, try to take it like a man that you aren't.

dcbullet
2007-05-09, 11:30 AM
Wipe your chin, dcGullet.....you still thinking about what you ate for lunch today...... :rolleyes:

No one's interested in your NAMBLA fantasies geezer.

U2Lynne
2007-05-09, 11:31 AM
:lol :lol :lol :lol

Maybe I did and saw nothing new there ....certainly nothing unique.......
Nothing new or unique? Come on, freezer, he tapes and then shares his own recordings. Isn't that what you are always pushing people to do?

freezer
2007-05-09, 11:45 AM
Back to the word association thread with him and he can rant on about viagra and chubbies where everyone already thinks he's an idiot.

Maybe you can start a thread just for him there in the Lounge where he lives........

You can call it..... "dcbullet is an idiot"

You certainly wouldn't want to start a thread like that where the subject couldn't see it....How cowardly would that be.......

You can let him post in it to show his NAMBLA affiliations.

:lol :lol :lol

__________________

You wall-eyed apple-knocking pig-fuckers! You don't know nothing!

dcbullet
2007-05-09, 11:47 AM
Back to the word association thread with him and he can rant on about viagra and chubbies where everyone already thinks he's an idiot.

Maybe you can start a thread for him there........

"dcbullet is an idiot"

You certainly wouldn't want to start a threa

You can let him post in it to show his NAMLA affiliations.

I'll take that as an apology. :lmao:

freezer
2007-05-09, 11:50 AM
You have nothing to apologize for, you can't help being an idiot...... :rolleyes:

paddington
2007-05-09, 12:06 PM
Back to the word association thread with him and he can rant on about viagra and chubbies where everyone already thinks he's an idiot._

are you the spokesperson for "everyone" now? You do that a lot. Sort of like how Sharpton thinks he is the spokesperson for all black people?

I think that kind of false legitimization speaks to a need to hide your deep feelings of self ineptitude.

Even you don't believe your own bullshit so you allude to "everyone" being on the bandwagon of your latest rant, hoping, with clasped palms, that some will actually jump on - which usually ends up being the same couple of people. Then, you 'roar' to the forefront as the 'leader' of these sycophants, as will be demonstrated over the next few posts. It's kind of pitiful.

dementrium
2007-05-09, 12:44 PM
dcbullet & freezer, there's an special "Men seeking Men" thread already here:
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=37928

Chairwoman Administrator is handling room tickets for the happy couples there. :clap:

freezer
2007-05-09, 12:52 PM
^^^Yawn........

james-ky, the most pitiful thing about the entire internet is that it gives you a platform to whine to the whole fricking world. :rolleyes:





No, I never claimed to speak for everybody, but what percent of the entire population of TTD could actually give a fuck about the Lounge?

Christ, nobody here could give a fuck about ratios.....that was my point, too bad the crack about becoming a Post Whore hit so close to home for a couple of you..... :D





Christ, nobody here could give a fuck about ratios.....which is what this thread is 'supposed to be' about, before I hijacked it.




And it sure as shit is true that the more you post inanely in the Lounge, the more you're accepted here.

That was the point of bringing up the 'word association' thread.....

How many years did it take you in high school, james-ky, having to have EVERYTHING explained to you?






What's your post count, jamesky.....or is that your "TTD creditability" ratio?

If you hadn't become a post whore, you'd still be nothing more than the major butt of the jokes in the Lounge.





If it worked for you, why shouldn't it work for Dudogger?

That's legitimate and serious answer.

If it worked for you, and helped you get accepted at this site, then why shouldn't it work for Dudogger.....

He's already proved himself more articulate than you , james-ky.



If Dudogger does what you did, hang out in the Lounge and posts 200 times a day, why shouldn't he be as accepted as you? You think you're better than him?









However I'd bet that there have been some new visitors to the Lounge since this thread was hijacked...... :lol

With all those new visitors to the Lounge, it's a good time to bring up starting a "jameskg is an idiot" thread, but this time I suggest that such a thread be in a spot where everyone can participate.....

Of course since I don't post in the lounge, it's a great time for some coward to start a "freezer is an idiot" thread there.


____________________________________

You wall-eyed apple-knocking pig-fuckers! You don't know anything!

U2Lynne
2007-05-09, 12:58 PM
Christ, nobody here could give a fuck about ratios.....which is what this thread is 'supposed to be' about, before I hijacked it.
So, back to the topic......

freezer
2007-05-09, 01:05 PM
So, back to the topic......


At least you didn't deny the truth behind what I posted......thanks. :D









Now, what about that explicit ratio thing.....and how are you gonna do anything to help adjust my ratio?

saltman
2007-05-09, 01:06 PM
Now, what about that explicit ratio thing.....and how are you gonna do anything to help adjust my ratio?maybe you could start by recording something for yourself and share it with others.... all I hear is a mouth full of gimmee.





;)

freezer
2007-05-09, 06:03 PM
maybe you could start by recording something for yourself and share it with others.... all I hear is a mouth full of gimmee. ... ;)

I just recorded over 40 acts from the New Orleans Jazz Fest.....and some shows in clubs during and previous to the Jazz Fest....

A lot of sets where there were guests........ There were some out of town musicians climbing on stage with old rockers from the 'golden' days of New Orleans Swamp Pop...... ;)

I'm looking for a site that will allow jazz and blues and funk shows offered there as trades...... or you can PM me.....

Gotta warn you, I'm looking for "unique" recordings ..... not run of the mill humdrum crap.




I'm not interested in sharing on torrent anything any longer.....

Not enough people keep their ratios to a point where the chronic complainers won't keep their whiney asses in the lounge in the word association thread....... :D

saltman
2007-05-09, 06:07 PM
Not enough people keep their ratios to a point where the chronic complainers won't keep their whiney asses in the lounge in the word association thread....... :Dcool. I haven't been to jazz fest since 1996. Always a good time. Some of my pals were their video recording. can't wait to see it when they get back. :thumbsup

possessed
2007-05-09, 09:35 PM
Not enough people keep their ratios to a point where the chronic complainers won't keep their whiney asses in the lounge in the word association thread....... :D
As opposed to old whiny bastards who like to argue over the internet, thereby raising their post count. :D

Phishblowz
2007-05-09, 10:03 PM
maybe I'm just undereducated here, but I know I've seen a lot of "freezer" stuff (some of which I have liked and some I haven't...thanx for circulating them all the same) and although I haven't seen anything I recall coming from dcbullets efforts (be it taping, authoring or uploading) but it seems his ratio looks good, and he at least shared what he took (and then some) and all of you seem to have contributed in one fashion or another, and I personally appreciate all of your efforts, and as I don't know you guys personally, I have no gripes with any of you...so why then, if you have all been decent contributors here, are you all so hateful towards each other??? :hmm:

it's quite a bum trip guys...the hate seems rather personal...maybe that kind of jagged edge should be delivered via pm or something...you both seem to enjoy beatin each other up, but this seems a poor place to take up such matters...seems kinda strange too (I'm sure I'm missing much of the history, and don't wanna know either) sorry to see so much personal hatred here...I hope you all find a way to remain civil...sometimes it's best to agree to disagree :D

P.S. I'm aware that I could probably do well to take my own advice, and I too am working on trying to let things go, for the good of myself and those around me...this is an open forum and all kinds of assholes are welcome here...my kind, your kind, and every kind in between ;)

we're allowed to be assholes, if that's who we are, and it's up to the community to learn how to deal with it...it's sad but it's true...don't know if this helps any of you, but I thought I'd share it with ya :cool:

U2Lynne
2007-05-09, 11:24 PM
Phishblowz, freezer has sent a lot of shows to some users to seed here. His ratio will always be 0 even though he has shared who know how many new shows here (or elsewhere). So, he would be banned if we enforced a ratio ban here. Is that right?

I'll continue to state that I'm not crazy about ratio bans. I don't think ratios tell the whole story about sharing. Sharing is not all about torrents. I know it is frustrating to hop on a show and give your upload to someone who then jumps off.... I've done it tons of times... I've even posted in threads saying I hope so-and-so will stay on after I upload to them to continue sharing. But, in the long run, I realize I have to just share the shows.

Phishblowz
2007-05-09, 11:38 PM
like I said about these guys that are spreading a lot of hate towards each other...they seem to be good members...I said I got some things that were "freezer" tapes...and some I passed on (but am aware he is responsible for, and that's cool of him) so I was more curious as to why people who have done so much for the music preservation are bashing each other, that's all

as for the ratio issue, he could (and should) be credited for his efforts...these credits could be applied as upload credit to reflect his ratio in an overall aspect rather than a strict BT ul/dl issue...other sites have been known to creit uploads for donations, we could do so for bnp offers and vines and new offerings like "freezer" tapes and things like that...but in Freezers case, any way you look at it, he has a non-ratio...it is neither high nor low, therefore, as he has "taken" nothing, he wouldn't be required to "give back" to remain at an even level...0:0 is the same as 1:1...but yes I understand your point about good people getting shafted by an uneven policy...I think a credit system would balance it, but I have come to accept the inevitable, and I am okay with it...I don't wish to rant, and I'm sorry if some people I respect think ill of me for all of this, and I am sorry...everyone knows how I feel about it and I will leave it at that...I will continue to do what I think is right, and what other people do is there problem...it's not my cross to bear, and I will lay that burden down now...thanks for all the wise opinions by many of you on the matter...there have been good arguements on both sides, and a rather spirited debate...it's a shame that healthy debates tend to get ugly over the net, but it was a valuable experience (if nothing else)

thanks to most of you for the valuable input :wave:

freezer
2007-05-09, 11:40 PM
.....so why then, if you have all been decent contributors here, are you all so hateful towards each other???

I guess where it begins is with past arguements over false lineages.....

Particularly when it pertains to Led Zeppelin......some of the guys I make fun of (especially in this thread) may or may not have ever 'knowingly' passed off fake lineages.....but they sure as fuck take it personal whenever the word 'lineage' is mentioned.


In my case, I'm sure where it begins with "them that hates me" is that they know I have things they want and can't get.....The demands are usually followed by NOTHING but hatred. (Lots of denials will occur to this remark, but if the specific recording came available, they'd be asses and elbows all over it....)



You got it, there's a lot of hate involved.



I say it begins with the lineage frauds, I'm sure in the background is that I do have things they want. and I rub it in.....



Didn't you wonder about the "mouth full of gimme" remark?

I've used that on the takers, and if you like, it's yours to use on the uberleechers; I like to use it for the nose-picking jerks who feel the need to demand from tapers when they'll never dare to walk in a taper's shoes. (Is she here?)



Yeah, I'm old, older than almost all of you here, wouldn't trade it for the world. :cool:

First band taped: John Fred and his Playboy Band in September of 1967....not a stealth job either.....they were riding on a hit named "Agnes English" just having "Up and Down" off the charts in May 67. I got to see them do their new song, "Judy In Disguise" before it was released.

First stealth jobs were in 1968....lousy recordings, but a start. Animals...Steppenwolf....



Also, I'm not much of a subscriber to the "community" thing.

I'm a trader.

In order for me to be able to operate as a trader looking for rare material, I have to have material that doesn't circulate.....and in most cases, they're recordings I made myself.

You see old recordings from me popping up only to try to shake loose something I'm looking for....

You see new recordings from me because I like the music and I know certain folks here like it or 'should' like it. Or because I'd like to see some unknown/new/old act get some attention.

But that's my motives for sharing.

I'm looking for only a few specific recordings and after I find 'em (or if I just give up the search) I'm a gone pecan.

I'm not interested in every live recording by every band.....been there - done that....its boring...and I never got back the same quality of recordings I was putting out.



........and I'm not going to archive the history of any band. That's anal-retentive.....and I ain't a librarian.

Hell, I don't even believe that my recordings are part of the "history of Rock n Roll" or "historical documents". (if a band wanted to be documented they should do it themselves....don't look to me for help....I'm not interested.)



I'm mostly interested in recordings of the shows I've seen.

And what keeps me around is I'm still searching for the soundboard recording of 12/12/70 Doors in New Orleans.

I'll trade for that, name what I have you want.....then I'm a hiistory lesson.





So if you want to get rid of me, just come up with that soundboard recording of the last Doors show with Jim Morrison, and I'm gone......

And then the jerks can lie about lineages all they want......

U2Lynne
2007-05-09, 11:51 PM
I guess where it begins is with past arguements over false lineages.....
No, no, and no.

Not all arguments on this site are over lineage. In fact, until you mentioned it as a word in a Lounge thread (we aren't in The Lounge!!!!) it wasn't brought up.

NEXT!

No more lineage in this thread.

Back on track for this thread now. And I'm serious. :whip:

freezer
2007-05-10, 12:09 AM
No, no, and no.

Not all arguments on this site are over lineage. In fact, until you mentioned it as a word in a Lounge thread (we aren't in The Lounge!!!!) it wasn't brought up.

NEXT!

No more lineage in this thread.

Back on track for this thread now. And I'm serious. :whip:



So what are you going to do about MY ratio?

Silver Stallion DVDs
2007-05-10, 12:25 AM
as for the ratio issue, he could (and should) be credited for his efforts...these credits could be applied as upload credit to reflect his ratio in an overall aspect rather than a strict BT ul/dl issue...other sites have been known to creit uploads for donations, we could do so for bnp offers and vines and new offerings like "freezer" tapes and things like that...
I've offered to give away 200 gigs to any TTDer in need. But apparently it can't be done...or can it? I'd gladly give it all away. It damn sure ain't doin' me any good.

U2Lynne
2007-05-10, 12:33 AM
So what are you going to do about MY ratio?
Nothing. We aren't banning anyone over ratios (have we ever said we would?). This is a discussion thread. Are we not allowed to discuss here?

freezer
2007-05-10, 01:30 AM
Nothing. We aren't banning anyone over ratios (have we ever said we would?). This is a discussion thread. Are we not allowed to discuss here?

Are we?

Then why did you stop me from mentioning ..........

Are we allowed to discuss here? Freely discuss?

I dunno, you make the rules, you decided I couldn't use a certain word to even explain myself.

In reply to a previous post

Hell I wouldn't even be in this thread if certain people hadn't referred to me.

Why invoke the devil if you already know you won't like him for telling the truth?



Now you say 'this is a discussion thread" ......

Well that's ALL I was trying to do. discuss.....


goddam, you know I really love you but sometimes you send such mixed signals.
:hmm:








Now, are you sure we shouldn't discuss my ratio? You forgetting how many times you had to quiet down that looney-bird?

dcbullet
2007-05-10, 02:55 AM
Hell I wouldn't even be in this thread if certain people hadn't referred to me.

Which post was that?

U2Lynne
2007-05-10, 10:55 AM
Hell I wouldn't even be in this thread if certain people hadn't referred to me.
I just looked through the thread.... you showed up at post 51, but I can't find you mentioned prior to that. :hmm:

toys
2007-05-10, 11:07 AM
I just looked through the thread.... you showed up at post 51, but I can't find you mentioned prior to that. :hmm:
check post #7 made by me. i guess when freezer read through this thread he didn't like the cute responses by DCbullet and Jameskg so felt he had to jump into the ratio discussion to pick a fight with them.

Trader Dave
2007-05-10, 01:58 PM
do you ever have those moments when you wish this online community could materialize into a real 3dimensional space, lets say the pub maybe...that way all the wankers with their assanine opinions. greedy justifications, and complete lack of respect for the community could be served a healthy dose of some SHUTTHEFUCKUP! pint glass to the head style

[i should probly be de-modded Lynne, maybe take a break from online trading...leechers are beginning to make me violent :lol: ]
Let me get this straight. you wish Dudogger could say his opinion to you in a bar face to face so you can break a bottle over his head for having a different opinion than yours and other ppl here want to drink beer with you after you said that?

I understand where Dudogger is coming from. Some of you guys sound like you are defending America from the Muslims. :hmm:

guygee
2007-05-10, 02:08 PM
Share Share Share...Even tapers leach off of the bands, and bands leach off of the fans...it is a circle, and may it remain unbroken.

Phishblowz
2007-05-10, 02:12 PM
Let me get this straight. you wish Dudogger could say his opinion to you in a bar face to face so you can break a bottle over his head for having a different opinion than yours and other ppl here want to drink beer with you after you said that?

I understand where Dudogger is coming from. Some of you guys sound like you are defending America from the Muslims. :hmm:

FWIW, I think Dudogger has the wrong attitude...he does nothing to contribute here in any way and is proud of it...I disagree with his attitude and think he is wrong in the matter...but I don't think it's appropriate to wish harm on others like that...if the conversation breaks down that far, we should agree to disagree and leave it at that...which is where I left it...some people have really kicked it up a notch, and that's a little discouraging...spirited debate shouldn't turn into a mosh pit, but that's just my opinion :disbelief

Trader Dave
2007-05-10, 02:42 PM
FWIW, I think Dudogger has the wrong attitude...he does nothing to contribute here in any way and is proud of it...I disagree with his attitude and think he is wrong in the matter...but I don't think it's appropriate to wish harm on others like that...if the conversation breaks down that far, we should agree to disagree and leave it at that...which is where I left it...some people have really kicked it up a notch, and that's a little discouraging...spirited debate shouldn't turn into a mosh pit, but that's just my opinion :disbelief
I thought he was just saying that the share ratio isn't a fair way to judge others and a lot of ppl are using it to bash others?

Anyway, that's what i thought i read. :hmm:

freezer
2007-05-10, 03:48 PM
check post #7 made by me. i guess when freezer read through this thread he didn't like the cute responses by DCbullet and Jameskg so felt he had to jump into the ratio discussion to pick a fight with them.

Hello "games".....so good to see you again...... :wave:

Phishblowz
2007-05-10, 05:16 PM
it's a little more complicated than that, but for a simple look at it, people pick on people with low ratios asking for reseeds and artwork and shit, because it's felt that if they aren't giving the community shit, what right do they have to ask for more...they should be happy enough with what they get...and my opinion is that it's right to verbally abuse someone who deserves it, but if we are only looking at the ratio to determine the "value" on the site (which I too commonly do, and am trying to curb that behavior) then we should have the ratios reflect all their involvement on the site (vines bnp and other offerings...not just upload numbers) but again, that's a very short-sighted overview of the whole thing (the way I see it, at least)

but to your point, all of this can be discussed rationally (to some degree) and the idea of wanting to resort to violence to make your point is excessive, which I said in regards to your original comment (agreeing that this is getting out of hand)

ssquirrel
2007-05-10, 06:02 PM
Phishblowz, freezer has sent a lot of shows to some users to seed here. His ratio will always be 0 even though he has shared who know how many new shows here (or elsewhere). So, he would be banned if we enforced a ratio ban here. Is that right?

To get a ratio you take what a person uploads and divide it by what they downloaded right? Doing that with Freezer's stats would mean dividing zero by zero, and well.. I don't know what happens when you divide by zero. Very, very dangerous territory there! :eek3: :wtf:

freezer
2007-05-10, 08:08 PM
Share Share Share...Even tapers leach off of the bands, and bands leach off of the fans...it is a circle, and may it remain unbroken.


:rolleyes:

Phishblowz
2007-05-10, 08:13 PM
like I said, Freezer has a non-ratio...if you don't take anything, you don't give anything back...it's still balanced and not a defecit...but freezer should have major upload credited to his ratio stats for all his "behind the scenes" efforts in recording and circulating the things he has worked on like that...I have said several times that many of the folks here with these bad attitudes have done no wrong in my book...either their ratio looks good or I am conciously aware of their other efforts (like in Freezers case) so they're all cool by me...hopefully none of them have taken any offense to what i said...I they they are acting childish amongst each other, but the few encounters I've had with any of them, they were decent to me, so I can't speak against them...they have done no wrong by me

but about this ratio issue...say for instance a 5gb credit to your account for every vine offer, or bnp fulfilled, etc...all the people who download without uploading but give back in other ways, would receive credit for what they do and it would balance the ratio...the only people who would have poor stats would be those who contribute nothing in any fashion here...it could be done, and it would settle a lot of the inaccuracies with the ratio...I even offered the idea of abandoning the ban idea, but still finding a way to make the ratio about your overall efforts, and not just your bandwidth count...but no one has said ANYTHING about it...is it a bad idea???

I just think that most folks who are very active in the vines and bnps are getting shortchanged when people see a lousy ratio and think they don't contribute...why not credit them so they are recognized and appreciated for the effort...that's why we post ratios here, is for the recognition of your effort (or lack thereof) so why not apply the credit properly...if this is not JUST a torrent site, then why are the ratios specific to the torrents, and not the whole site...would anyone opine on whether this idea sounds good (or even makes sense to anyone but me)...PLEASE!!! it sounds like the answer to a lot of these problems, and no one said a word about it...don't you viners and bnpers want to get credit for your efforts??? :hmm:

heymnaooh1
2007-05-10, 08:32 PM
don't you viners and bnpers want to get credit for your efforts??? :hmm:They already get credit by being seen as good, reliable traders/viners/bnpers by others i.e. they get referrals by word of mouth. Unreliable, bad traders/viners/bnpers get outed privately and/or publicly, losing credibility not only on TTD but other live music trading communities as well.

toys
2007-05-11, 08:29 AM
for what its worth, the perecentage of members here with a ratio below .5 is less than 10%

meanwhile, the percentage of firewalled members currently on the tracker is around 40%

U2Lynne
2007-05-11, 10:31 AM
...if this is not JUST a torrent site, then why are the ratios specific to the torrents, and not the whole site...would anyone opine on whether this idea sounds good (or even makes sense to anyone but me)...PLEASE!!! it sounds like the answer to a lot of these problems, and no one said a word about it...don't you viners and bnpers want to get credit for your efforts??? :hmm:
Trying to give someone a 'credit' in their ratio everytime they post a Vine or give a B&P would be a nightmare for Staff. It's much easier for us to list those items on their profile page. And, if we did decide to credit their ratio, trying to decide how much to credit them for each Vine/B&P would also be difficult to decide. The torrent ratio should show what they do on torrents. The Vines and B&Ps list shows how many shows they have offered in those ways. Maybe if I have a bit of time, I can add a link under their ratio that shows if they are a Viner or B&Per. Perhaps that would help to 'instantly' see what this person is contributing here.

Powderfinger
2007-05-11, 01:30 PM
but about this ratio issue...say for instance a 5gb credit to your account for every vine offer, or bnp fulfilled, etc...all the people who download without uploading but give back in other ways, would receive credit for what they do and it would balance the ratio...the only people who would have poor stats would be those who contribute nothing in any fashion here...it could be done, and it would settle a lot of the inaccuracies with the ratio...I even offered the idea of abandoning the ban idea, but still finding a way to make the ratio about your overall efforts, and not just your bandwidth count...but no one has said ANYTHING about it...is it a bad idea???

I just think that most folks who are very active in the vines and bnps are getting shortchanged when people see a lousy ratio and think they don't contribute...why not credit them so they are recognized and appreciated for the effort...that's why we post ratios here, is for the recognition of your effort (or lack thereof) so why not apply the credit properly...if this is not JUST a torrent site, then why are the ratios specific to the torrents, and not the whole site...would anyone opine on whether this idea sounds good (or even makes sense to anyone but me)...PLEASE!!! it sounds like the answer to a lot of these problems, and no one said a word about it...don't you viners and bnpers want to get credit for your efforts??? :hmm:

If ratios mean nothing - which has been stated time and time again on this site - they should just be removed from clear public view.

As for giving "credits" to people who do B&P or vines, who the fuck is going to go through all of THAT effort?? The staff here are not paid (although I do think that the Cover Art Mod should get some sort of reward, for his job is a tough one) and to expect them to wade through 20 miles of bullshit in order to give Skippy-La-HaHa his credit due for doing a B&P on a Weezer show taped on a radio shack handheld is just fucking idiotic.

Ratios are only good for one thing - making fun of cocksuckers who have low ones.

End of story.

Don't be an idiot.

:wave:

Powderfinger
2007-05-11, 01:33 PM
meanwhile, the percentage of firewalled members currently on the tracker is around 40%

In the words of the Wicker Man - "Firewalled and don't give a fuck..."

And still have over a 4.0 ratio....

Fresh for 2007, you suckers.

:finger:

freezer
2007-05-11, 02:08 PM
Well........ after that!!! ^^^ ...... I ain't worried about no ratios no more.....

Goddam, P'finger, you sure set things straight in only a few well-chosen words.... :clap: :clap: :clap:




no mo' worries 'bout them ratios.....

free at last...free at last.................

:lol














_____________________________________

Well, then you are calling some serious Led Zep collectors liars.

You wall-eyed apple-knocking pig-fuckers! You don't know shit!

Powderfinger
2007-05-11, 02:33 PM
no mo' worries 'bout them ratios.....

free at last...free at last.................

:lol


Bro...anyone who doesn't know about your contributions to this site aren't worth fucking with...

screw 'em.

Now....gimmee, gimme, gimmee....

and much obliged!!!

:wave:

Phishblowz
2007-05-11, 02:38 PM
points well taken regarding credits to the ratio...a good idea, but virtually impossible to actually accomplish...though a link to their other contributions would be a good idea so folks have "instant" access to the rest of the story before we flame people...it's a more reasonable solution to the problem...probably won't fix anything, but it's a step in the right direction...thanx for all the input on the subject, I've really given a lot of thought to the more legitimate points made here, and I appreciate the flow of "decent" ideas :thumbsup

Trader Dave
2007-05-11, 05:10 PM
Dudogger, why is it that you think we should not show share ratios here? Do you download from the other big torrent sites like DIME or Tapecity or Lossless Legs or ....., cuz all the major torrent sites that I.....
You're kidding about major sites, right?
I went to Lossless Legs one time and it looked like a dead head fan site.
Anyway, THE REALLY BIG SITES like pirate bay, mininova, and the other BIG torrent sites don't use share ratios. It's the small sites like Lossless Legs and tapecity that do. ;)

freezer
2007-05-11, 05:22 PM
Bro...anyone who doesn't know about your contributions to this site aren't worth fucking with...

screw 'em.

Now....gimmee, gimme, gimmee....

and much obliged!!!

:wave:

C'mon, P.... you know there's "members" at TTD that live to take on freezer.

I could say it's a nice day and some busy body would HAVE to argue about it. :lol



No, let's discuss MY explicit ratio.........since it was already discussed on page one in this thread.....and subsequently referenced in further discussion.


Remember the original "Where do New Sources of old zeppelin shows come from" thread and how somebody just had to make a nasty comment in the first few posts?

WELL...using that thread's beginning ONLY as an example -- my point is:
"Would doing something to my ratio help remedy in keeping something like that from happening again?"

No -- ratio wouldn't have mattered.....That was purely a personal attack.




We're still discussing explicit ratio here.......MY explicit ratio.......OK......and using my unique situation as the case in point --- in almost every case where someone's complained about MY ratio or what I've shared or didn't share ...in almost every case....its been personal.

Ratios wouldn't have mattered.

Look at the original "new sources" thread. Remember mort? remember the looneybird SPECIFICALLY complaining about MY explicit ratio? All personal attacks.

Would it make any difference if I had a ratio at all?

Ratios wouldn't matter because the 'members' that wanted to take on freezer couldn't care about explicit ratios .... they had axes to grind.




So, still discussing ratios.....my ratio as an example.......

Do I need a ratio?

The site owner pretty much said no.

I never thought I ever NEEDED a ratio because I don't take anything back......nobody will share what I want....(Doors 12/12/70 soundboard)

And a ratio won't stop any attacks, any arguements or any resentments.



Dudogger doesn't need a ratio. If he posts frequently in the Lounge, he'll fit right in all over TTD.......hell, who knows, maybe he'll fit in so well, he'll be asked to be the "assistant cover mod".




SO..........Does anyone else need an explicit ratio?

Ask the site owner for one simple and final answer and use that quote as a signature. That ought to shut up anything but a personal attack.




Case closed............now what about them awful 'spider-bots' ..... :rolleyes:




______________________________________
Well, then you are calling some serious Led Zep collectors liars.





You wall-eyed apple-knocking pig-fuckers! You don't know shit!

dcbullet
2007-05-11, 05:25 PM
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=persecution+complex

freezer
2007-05-11, 07:13 PM
dc bullet -- this is not the word association thread.

We're discussing ratios here.


Did'ya get lost looking for the Lounge again????????



Well, don't go away empty-handed; here's some help with a word you're probably unfamiliar with.....

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=unique

dcbullet
2007-05-11, 07:37 PM
Well, don't go away empty-handed; here's some help with a word you're probably unfamiliar with.....

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=unique

God damn you got me there! None of the shows I contribute are unique at all. :lol

digital_rich
2007-05-11, 08:11 PM
meanwhile, the percentage of firewalled members currently on the tracker is around 40%


That's kind of misleading. Many times I have the red firewalled message when I'm
connected, even though my ports are properly forwarded.

paddington
2007-05-11, 08:54 PM
Bro...anyone who doesn't know about your contributions to this site aren't worth fucking with...

screw 'em.

Now....gimmee, gimme, gimmee....

and much obliged!!!



why don't you two get a fucking room?

paddington
2007-05-11, 08:55 PM
God damn you got me there! None of the shows I contribute are unique at all. :lol When he's down, he just makes shit up so he can post.

freezer
2007-05-11, 10:13 PM
Amazing, just discuss specific trolls and goddam if jameskg and dcbullet don't take the cue and chime in....




why don't you two get a fucking room?

Why don't you be nice for a change and try to add something to the discussion?

All you've done in this thread is troll.


Be nice and maybe you could get to be a 2nd Assistant Cover Mod, jameskg.

Phishblowz
2007-05-11, 11:25 PM
if I may add something relevant to the thread, we now have neat little links that announce our contributions on the right side of our header now...thanks for that...it's by no means a cure, but it's a step in the right direction...thanks for that...here's hoping for a little civility (I know it's a lot to ask, but this is getting a little excessive guys) :(

Trader Dave
2007-05-12, 12:07 AM
if I may add something relevant to the thread, we now have neat little links that announce our contributions on the right side of our header now...thanks for that...it's by no means a cure, but it's a step in the right direction...thanks for that...here's hoping for a little civility (I know it's a lot to ask, but this is getting a little excessive guys) :(
I'm glad i don't do any of those things because that thing looks ugly. :lol

U2Lynne
2007-05-12, 01:30 AM
I'm glad i don't do any of those things because that thing looks ugly. :lol
You don't have to see it. Go to your User CP > Options tab and go to the bottom and turn it off.

I could be mean and instead of saying who *does* do uploads/vines/b&ps, I could state the opposite. :D

Phishblowz
2007-05-12, 01:43 AM
You don't have to see it. Go to your User CP > Options tab and go to the bottom and turn it off.

I could be mean and instead of saying who *does* do uploads/vines/b&ps, I could state the opposite. :D

not a bad idea, but that's a fight waiting to happen :lol

we probably shouldn't add any accelerant to the fire :lmao:

Trader Dave
2007-05-12, 01:43 AM
You don't have to see it. Go to your User CP > Options tab and go to the bottom and turn it off.

I could be mean and instead of saying who *does* do uploads/vines/b&ps, I could state the opposite. :D
Doesn't matter to me. can you put post whore contributor on mine? I want to be different.

U2Lynne
2007-05-12, 01:52 AM
Doesn't matter to me. can you put post whore contributor on mine? I want to be different.
One time only change... it's there, but you change it and I won't do it again unless you ask.

Trader Dave
2007-05-12, 01:56 AM
One time only change... it's there, but you change it and I won't do it again unless you ask.
It's there? :hmm:

U2Lynne
2007-05-12, 01:58 AM
It isn't? somewhere....?

*groan*

dcbullet
2007-05-12, 05:01 AM
When he's down, he just makes shit up so he can post.


This is a true statement. Never before have I seen such a collection of lies, misrepresentations, and falsehoods as what has come from geezer's arthritic fingers.

He lied about selling his tape, he lied about what I have contributed, he's lied about what other's have said, pretty much he's a liar - pretty simple.

Powderfinger
2007-05-12, 09:11 AM
Does Jelly-KY call up DPull-it everytime he posts and ask for back up, or do you guys send each other PMs that say...

"Haha...look what I told Freezer!! Now you say this....."

Somebody needs to throw water on you two, cause obviously you guys are locked up and stuck....

http://animalpicturesarchive.com/ArchOLD-1/1096716226.jpg

jcrab66
2007-05-12, 09:28 AM
:yawn:

Festafarian
2007-05-12, 11:14 AM
They already get credit by being seen as good, reliable traders/viners/bnpers by others i.e. they get referrals by word of mouth. Unreliable, bad traders/viners/bnpers get outed privately and/or publicly, losing credibility not only on TTD but other live music trading communities as well.

Well said. :clap:

AAR.oner
2007-05-12, 12:23 PM
Let me get this straight. you wish Dudogger could say his opinion to you in a bar face to face so you can break a bottle over his head for having a different opinion than yours and other ppl here want to drink beer with you after you said that?

I understand where Dudogger is coming from. Some of you guys sound like you are defending America from the Muslims. :hmm:
america from the muslims? lost me on that one

but to answer yer question, sure...thats exactly it :rolleyes:

dcbullet
2007-05-12, 03:12 PM
Does Jelly-KY call up DPull-it everytime he posts and ask for back up, or do you guys send each other PMs that say...

I call it a happy coincidence.

freezer
2007-05-12, 03:48 PM
I call it a happy coincidence.

You're nothing but a troll....and that's no lie.

:thumbsup



You're not even a very "unique" troll, because you've done nothing but poorly imitate what jameskg was doing at TTD long before you perfected your peculiar little trolling act.

:lol :lol :lol

Trader Dave
2007-05-13, 05:36 PM
america from the muslims? lost me on that one

I figured you could understand that analogy the best. :hmm:
You know god and country, lynne and TTD? ;)

Trader Dave
2007-05-14, 12:26 AM
america from the muslims? lost me on that one

but to answer yer question, sure...thats exactly it :rolleyes:
If this isn't god and country with a bang i have no idea what is. :hmm:

do you ever have those moments when you wish this online community could materialize into a real 3dimensional space, lets say the pub maybe...that way all the wankers with their assanine opinions. greedy justifications, and complete lack of respect for the community could be served a healthy dose of some SHUTTHEFUCKUP! pint glass to the head style

lets try changing some words for fun
do you ever have those moments when you wish the Muslims I see on the news talking trash could materialize into a real 3dimensional space, lets say the pub maybe...that way all the wankers with their assanine opinions. greedy justifications, and complete lack of respect for the community could be served a healthy dose of some SHUTTHEFUCKUP! pint glass to the head style

dcbullet
2007-05-14, 12:34 AM
I'm feeling Deja Vu.

Powderfinger
2007-05-14, 02:08 PM
It's a cult...

Look it up.

bot
2007-05-14, 05:02 PM
i rarely download. most of the music here is crap. most of the recordings are crap.
I collect my music the old fashion way. I steal CD's when I'm at a party.

Phishblowz
2007-05-14, 07:40 PM
i rarely download. most of the music here is crap. most of the recordings are crap.
I collect my music the old fashion way. I steal CD's when I'm at a party.

WOW you must be trying for member of the year with that attitude :lol

keep that up and you'll fit right in :D

Tubular
2007-05-14, 11:04 PM
http://www.gamespot.com/pages/unions/read_article.php?topic_id=22122024&union_id=181

Digdogger:

This is the fifth level boss and he is really easy. In its large form you can't hurt it, so you blow the whistle and it will turn into little eyeball things. Then you can easily kill them.

Remember The Legend of Zelda on the NES? :lol

Tubular
2007-05-14, 11:15 PM
Seriously though, does everyone expect all the dsl users with 15 kb/s upload speeds to keep a 1.00 ratio if they don't vine/seed/trade? The people with mega upload speeds (100 kb/s and above) pick up the slack for them in my opinion. Leaving people stranded sucks though.

paddington
2007-05-15, 04:05 AM
i rarely download. most of the music here is crap. most of the recordings are crap.
I collect my music the old fashion way. I steal CD's when I'm at a party.
:clap::clap:
:lmao: :clap: :clap::clap::clap:

Tubular
2007-05-15, 08:50 AM
From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. Wait, does that make me a commie? :lol

markknopfler
2007-05-15, 06:42 PM
Posted earlier today in response to yet another narrow-minded, ratio-fueled attack by someone whose sense of sharing and community has long-since escaped him. Hopefully, it will foster a little discussion regarding the rather distasteful class system that has resulted from the unnecessary use and public display of personal ratios by this site:

*******************************************************

:rolleyes: I guess I've now read so many of the baseless, ratio-related, pseudo-flame jobs that it's time to relay on to anyone who reads this a few observations I've made and thoughts I’ve had, about TTD-style "sharing" - especially to those of you who appear to be quite mathematically and cognitively challenged, and to those who are doing their very best to contribute, and yet still have to wade regularly through this kind of self-righteous pablum, just to be able to enjoy the music.

1) The arbitrary 1.00 ratio guideline is just that - a ratio and a guideline, and quite arbitrary. Here, ratio means upload volume divided by download volume, without any regard to individual bandwidth, drive capacity, etc. It is only a target, not a requirement, and one that is not readily attainable to many users who, nonetheless, still contribute in a very positive way. Thus TTD's suggestion that those who can't achieve 1.00 should try to B&P, vine, and so on. I imagine that a large number of participants, like me, are doing just that, yet it doesn't serve to stifle these impotent flamers much, does it? One yahoo recently boasted to me that his ratio was better than mine back when he used a laptop with a 56K modem. To which I ask - So what is your point? I mean, really, at 56K it likely took him a month to download one show. Then with a (hypothetical) 3.75 u/l divided by a 4.20 d/l, I guess I'd have to agree that his 0.89 ratio was better than mine. What a profound revelation that guy had, eh? So, a high ratio is really fairly meaningless, unless it is supported by a healthy upload volume. Without any regard to download volume, your absolute uploads are the true measure of one's contribution to any trading community, and not some poorly conceived, often-abused, arbitrary ratio threshold.

2) Occasionally, one downloads a show that is not worth keeping, burning, or sharing (due to poor quality), and in the user's opinion, shouldn't further pollute the trading pool by way of continued uploading. If one were then to delete that show/torrent, one might only have obtained a show-specific .17 ratio, for example. This can't be recouped for that deleted show, and that .17 ratio becomes a detriment to the user's overall ratio (as tracked by TTD), when in fact, he/she is doing the community a small favor by not enabling the spread of a crappy show. Other times, after a torrent's seeds/leeches drop to 0, and remains there for a number of days, that torrent is likewise deleted, though its individual ratio may still be well less than 1.00, but it is still available to meet reseed and B&P requests. Unfortunately, the typical flamer would prefer to spin that as being the horrible leecher "taking as much as possible, while giving next to nothing", which to many of us is much like Dubya saying "we've got to attack them there so they won't attack us here". Sorry, but we just know better. And, once someone seeds or uploads a show, it's out there, and the seeder has gotten his/her jollies, quite justifiably, for having offered it up. Various people then tap into that torrent and share the obtained music in their preferred, individual ways - there are indeed many shades of gray in this world. So in this format, it's not about taking versus giving back (equally) so much as it is about using current technology to acquire audio and video from a wealth of different sources, then redistributing that music, in various different ways, to other people who maybe aren't so fortunate or capable. Expected giving is just not a very cool thing, no matter how you look at it. It's kind of like feeling obligated to tithe 10% of your meager income to the local church, merely because that's their expectation of you and everybody does it, rather than because it’s something you freely elect to do or even can physically manage to do.

3) Some folks have great upload/download bandwidth. Good for them. Some do not, so they acquire what they can, when they can. Some, like me, have a pretty good download speed, but a very restrictive upload cap (mine is limited to about 28K, less than 10% of my maximum download speed). So any time my BT client is running, I am uploading at my maximum capacity, regardless of the number of torrents I have uploading at any given time. If I were to stop all of my downloading in order to capitulate to one selfish moron’s attempted browbeating of me to raise my ratio by uploading only, then guess what? I’m still only uploading at 28K, so that my rate (speed) of contribution to other downloaders remains exactly the same. And, I've been running nearly 24/7 since January 07. (Sorry, flamers, I just can't afford T1 right now in order to keep you happy.) Stopping the downloading, therefore, serves no rational, contributory purpose at all – it just curtails the acquisition and redistribution of new music, but in no way speeds the overall upload process. "Looking back to help others" (with reseed requests), while sounding noble, also corrects nothing ratio-wise because the upload rate remains the same no matter what combination of torrents I might choose to upload to (today I have 11 active ones). Just to illustrate how arbitrary and abused the ratio issue is, and how truly dense and cyber-power-hungry some of these non-mod gooberbrains can be: One challenged user recently had the gall to dictate to me that I should stop downloading until my ratio rises to at least 50%. To which I must ask – Based on what published mandate? And – Who died and left you dog-catcher, eh? Or - Is this some new standard you’ve just now conceived of and applied all by your smug little self? Impressive. So glad to hear it. Thanks again for the suggestion. Not.

4) If one were to halt downloads in order to increase ratio, that would mean one has temporarily stopped accumulating new material. Torrents die, such that by doing so you’d also increase the chances of missing out on one or more good shows as a result, such that you’d perhaps occasionally request a reseed, such that some other mindless flamer might well then decide to again stretch his puny ego by snooping into your stats and harping on you and your ratio. What fun!! So, I say to anyone reading this: People upload because it’s their hobby and they enjoy it. Other people download because it’s their hobby and they enjoy it. Still other people B&P like crazy, or simply burn and give away discs to special, grateful people who love the music, but don’t have the time, interest, and/or capability to download and burn it themselves - because it’s their hobby and they enjoy it! TTD is but one small facet on the face of a much larger trading/giving community concept that kind of mirrors the old Rastafarian philosophy of “from those that have, to those that have not”. That is, you should endeavor to share what you take, where you can, when you can, and with whomever you can, without any regard to some other person’s rate of sharing or giving, or their misguided expectations of you. This is the true spirit of “sharing the music”, and TTD would be a much better, kinder place without the few demented flamers who seem to believe otherwise, and routinely spoil it for everyone else, just for their squeaky little voices to be heard. I think that tossing out the ratio concept altogether would be highly constructive in removing an unfortunate opportunity for some sad souls to unfairly judge so many others who are just trying their best, and allow people of all shades to merge into the mosaic, in whatever fashion their individual preferences will support, effectively eliminating all this phony and unnecessary hierarchy garbage. That's what freedom is.

Happy Trading and Happy Sharing


P.S. - If you're a reader who keeps getting flamed by puffed-up jokers who have nothing better to do, no matter your effort to upload within the constraints of your particular system and/or budget, please jump in and say what you think. It's important for you to be heard rather than allowing that ratio flamer shit to, in any way, intimidate you into apologizing for your numbers. These people should be wholly ashamed, just like those now running our country (into the ground). Every kilobyte uploaded is a positive contribution from you to this system and community, regardless of what you receive from it, and as a recipient of some really good stuff, I, my friends, my family, and many receiving acquaintances are extremely thankful! :clap:

If you spent half as much time giving back as you did writing that brainless diatribe you wouldn't have such a shitty share ratio. :wave:

paddington
2007-05-15, 07:23 PM
ZING!! :lmao:


but it's not that shitty, in all fairness

freezer
2007-05-15, 07:59 PM
If you spent half as much time giving back as you did writing that brainless diatribe you wouldn't have such a shitty share ratio. :wave:


I thought the site owner said ratios don't matter.....are we still flogging that horse?


:horse:




Besides if Dudogger posts another 2000 words in the Lounge and even if the posts all happen to be single word posts in the "word Association" thread, he'll be as accepted around here as james-ky.....

_________________________________
You wall-eyed apple-knocking pig-fuckers! You don't know nothing!

possessed
2007-05-15, 10:17 PM
I thought the site owner said ratios don't matter.....are we still flogging that horse?


:horse:




Besides if Dudogger posts another 2000 words in the Lounge and even if the posts all happen to be single word posts in the "word Association" thread, he'll be as accepted around here as james-ky.....

_________________________________
Isn't about time you found a Led Zeppelin thread to go and whine in? Or maybe a guitar to glue? :)

paddington
2007-05-15, 10:28 PM
what ever happened to the guitar gluer? I miss him. miss him, miss him. NUmber 9, number 9

direwolf-pgh
2007-05-16, 12:03 AM
If you spent half as much time giving back as you did writing that brainless diatribe you wouldn't have such a shitty share ratio. :wave:
:clap: :clap: :lol :clap: :clap:

freezer
2007-05-16, 04:07 PM
...Hello 'possessed'.......the word association thread is in the Lounge.....You should have taken a left turn at Albuquerque, maroon.

:rolleyes:












This site jumped the shark when it allowed the "word association thread" trolls like 'possessed' to roam freely throughout.

Does he even have a clue that this is a music site?

Maybe he needs the site owner to s-l-o-w-l-y explain the r-a-t-i-o situation to him alone, so he needn't troll in the music area any longer. :down:

_____________________________________
You apple-knocking pig-fuckers! You don't know nothing!

paddington
2007-05-16, 04:16 PM
I just realized this thread is not in the lounge.. I had assumed it was, due to the content... I appologize to the suggestion mod(s) for talking shit in here. Maybe this should be moved to the lounge? It hasn't been very constructive.

freezer
2007-05-16, 04:23 PM
I just realized this thread is not in the lounge.. I had assumed it was, due to the content... I appologize to the suggestion mod(s) for talking shit in here. Maybe this should be moved to the lounge? It hasn't been very constructive.

I saw this thread as VERY productive, since the site owner told everyone once what she thinks of ratios...PERIOD. Maybe this thread isn't productive to those that can't change her mind?

Maybe this thread should be in the Lounge though.

Keep the trolls like jameskg and possessed in one place. :thumbsup

dcbullet
2007-05-16, 04:50 PM
Does he even have a clue that this is a music site?

Seems like he uploads shows. :hmm:

Keep the trolls like jameskg and possessed in one place.

And dcbullet. :cool:

U2Lynne
2007-05-16, 04:51 PM
I saw this thread as VERY productive, since the site owner told everyone once what she thinks of ratios...PERIOD. Maybe this thread isn't productive to those that can't change her mind?

I voiced *my* opinion on ratios, sure, but other people have different opinions. If policy here was to be changed, then the majority of Staff would have to agree to change it - not just me.

But yeah, guys, this thread is to discuss what the original poster brought up - whether we have a ratio policy. If you guys want to continue to lounge post, y'all know where The Lounge is.

Posts for the sake of personal bashing may be deleted.

dcbullet
2007-05-16, 04:53 PM
If you guys want to continue to lounge post, y'all know where The Lounge is.

But freezer's not allowed there.

<<snicker>>

freezer
2007-05-16, 06:51 PM
.....
Posts for the sake of personal bashing may be deleted.

uh-huh......well........The Lounge is just the place for this thread now that any and all dissenting opinions are met with a few trollish remarks......let 'em bash one another lights out over there.



Maybe that's why it's been suggested to move this thread.



You might have noticed that I am out of the Lounge since 2006 and I've refused to ask for the 'privledge' to return.

Best that I stay out of an area so over-run with sanctioned and official trolls.

I see ol 'bullet noticed this while he's still trolling this thread. <snicker>

Nothing gets past Mr. Jambalaya...... :lol


What I've noticed......repeatedly....I've noticed that dissenting opinions are usually less than tolerated by certain overly-dogmatic individuals at TTD....




However, I thought we were talking about ratios here.


Looks like I mis-understood that when Lynne made a remark that it was an 'opinion' and not 'policy'. I apoloogize, Lynne.


Is there any chance of a decision about ratios that can be written down?

Something in concrete?

__________________________________

U2Lynne
2007-05-16, 07:31 PM
This thread isn't going to be moved, however it is tempting to go prune out the non-ratio related posts in this thread.

What is there to write down? We currently do not ban anyone for low ratios, thus there is nothing that states "You Will Be Banned If Your Ratio Goes Below .XX". We've always emphasized sharing on this site in many different ways and that is what our response has always been in threads like this and it is even written on the front page of the site (I'm pretty sure). But, that doesn't mean users can't bring up the idea of banning for low ratios. They get frustrated when people leech and run and they should be allowed to talk about it cuz it IS frustrating! So, we discuss it and talk about why we don't ban for low ratios. Now, if things got to be really bad, and where that line is I don't know, then we may start to seriously think about banning for low ratios. But I don't currently see things being that bad.

FBM
2007-05-17, 03:53 PM
I do know that i have a shit ratio, and im actually sorry for that.
I did not read the whole thread, perhaps this was mentioned before, but i think you should not ban people, as you said this is a trading site, just make them not download anything, so, when they fall under e.g 0.20 they can't download anything or so.

BTW im trying to put my ratio up to 1.0
Cheers

Festafarian
2007-05-17, 06:22 PM
I do know that i have a shit ratio, and im actually sorry for that.
I did not read the whole thread, perhaps this was mentioned before, but i think you should not ban people, as you said this is a trading site, just make them not download anything, so, when they fall under e.g 0.20 they can't download anything or so.

BTW im trying to put my ratio up to 1.0
Cheers

And that's the difference, you are trying, not bitching. You have only d/l about 5 dvds worth of stuff. It takes a while before you can get caught up.

I think that's the best reason to not have ratio enforcements. Gives the new folks a chance to get in on it.

Trader Dave
2007-05-17, 09:03 PM
And that's the difference, you are trying, not bitching.

can you explain what bitching is and who and why are they bitching please?

U2Lynne
2007-05-17, 11:16 PM
can you explain what bitching is and who and why are they bitching please?
No.

Trader Dave
2007-05-17, 11:27 PM
No.

If she's talking about the guy everyone went after I don't get it. I thought he agreed with everyone that the ratio system was unfair to judge others with and had a lot of reasons for the way he felt. Then it all went over my head... i still can't figure what made everyone mad at him. :hmm:Was he bitching? (whatever that means) is that why? maybe someone could explain that to me? :hmm:

U2Lynne
2007-05-17, 11:41 PM
If she's talking about the guy everyone went after I don't get it. I thought he agreed with everyone that the ratio system was unfair to judge others with and had a lot of reasons for the way he felt. Then it all went over my head... i still can't figure what made everyone mad at him. :hmm:Was he bitching? (whatever that means) is that why? maybe someone could explain that to me? :hmm:
Research, Spe, research.

This thread was 'bumped' because of another thread. :rolleyes:

Trader Dave
2007-05-17, 11:46 PM
Research, Spe, research.

This thread was 'bumped' because of another thread. :rolleyes:
Oh okay. I really couldn't understand all the hatred.
Probably not worth my time to look for it then.

KoolKat
2007-05-18, 04:44 AM
If you feel some sort of ratio enforcement should happen for the ubers ,do what i've started doing chaps........some probably noticed during the seeding of KKDvD050.

I wait till theres say 50-75 hooked on.Then i quickly run through the members leeching & check the ratios/info.
Anyone who was just a plain obvious uber got noted and with the right torrent client and a bit of savvy you can work out what ip tallys.

That goes onto a list.txt

When i'm done...that list goes into peerguardian2 :lol :lol

They will end up with the file i know ,but at least the "propers" get it 1st and the ubers can't "brake" the seeding.

Fooking funny seeing them turn up to the thread ...you know they're trying to figure out something.
They do drop down the list.
You see all the non-firewalled and members who know the game rising and the file gets seeded quicker.


So.....
anyone wanting my files who has a ratio of .30 or less, is just a plain uber & has offered nowt to the community,i wouldn't bother getting on until it's seeded.

Let the big boys go 1st eh!! ;)

K_K

beeerlover
2007-05-18, 10:46 AM
hehehe, good one KK
I do the same thing, but I go about it comlpetely oposite of what you explained:

When seeding, I like to find 3 or 4 of those users who are uploading the fastest & add them to 'trusted IPs'

then set firewall to 'tight security' which blocks everyone who isn't trusted :lmao:

end result is the same--those who share well get the goods first :thumbsup

Phishblowz
2007-05-18, 02:56 PM
thanx for that KK...it's not even a matter of bashing the ratio whores, the real bother to me is those who take first and drop off w/o sharing, and also those who hop on late and beg for help when they've never helped anyone...I don't care if they get stuff, but I want the right folks to get priority, and the uberleechers can have what's left...like you said, let the big boys go first...not only, but just first (and foremost)

I've had issues where I've seeded for days to get folks completed and the first few over the hump drop off and continue to leave me holding the bag...you don't really "owe" me anything, but is it not common courtesy to help others enjoy what you just completed...don't you feel at least a little responsible for those who are stranded or struggling with pathetic speeds??? I've waited for days to get things crawling in at less than 5k...every k is important, especially when they are the only k's available for the torrent (i.e. new ones, first ones to complete, or dying torrents) so that argument is worthless to me...some guy w/15k stuck around forever to get me a dying torrent...his ratio wasn't so good, but the upload he spent was spent where it would be most valuable...so really I guess we should all just think more about the other guy, and less about ourselves...it has nothing to do with ability...it's not about ratios as much as about character...the kinds of folks who couldn't care less about the others in the community by hit and running all the time are problematic...it's true that many good folks have bad ratios, and it's also true that a strict ratio policy would allow some assholes who oughta go to be allowed to stay, while some folks who shouldn't get the boot may get booted, so it's a sticky wicket to be certain, but I would hope there is some kind of limit to U2Lynnes kindness to those who don't deserve it...hopefully she is willing to remove those who truly abuse the site...maybe not on a ratio policy or anything, but I expect she knows an uberdouche when she sees (hears/reads) one and hopefully she will prune those who don't belong here...it's all about courtesy and respect for others...ratios are but one aspect of a members character...but usually those who fall into the asshole category usually find themselves in the shitty ratio category too...coincidence :hmm: :rolleyes: :disbelief

Trader Dave
2007-05-18, 03:09 PM
If you feel some sort of ratio enforcement should happen for the ubers ,do what i've started doing chaps........some probably noticed during the seeding of KKDvD050.

I wait till theres say 50-75 hooked on.Then i quickly run through the members leeching & check the ratios/info.
Anyone who was just a plain obvious uber got noted and with the right torrent client and a bit of savvy you can work out what ip tallys.

That goes onto a list.txt

When i'm done...that list goes into peerguardian2 :lol :lol

They will end up with the file i know ,but at least the "propers" get it 1st and the ubers can't "brake" the seeding.

Fooking funny seeing them turn up to the thread ...you know they're trying to figure out something.
They do drop down the list.
You see all the non-firewalled and members who know the game rising and the file gets seeded quicker.


So.....
anyone wanting my files who has a ratio of .30 or less, is just a plain uber & has offered nowt to the community,i wouldn't bother getting on until it's seeded.

Let the big boys go 1st eh!! ;)

K_K
So let me see if I get it straight.. those who share .30 or more get it an hour before everyone else? :lol

bot
2007-05-18, 03:14 PM
thanx for that KK...it's not even a matter of bashing the ratio whores, the real bother to me is those who take first and drop off w/o sharing, and also those who hop on late and beg for help when they've never helped anyone...I don't care if they get stuff, but I want the right folks to get priority, and the uberleechers can have what's left...like you said, let the big boys go first...not only, but just first (and foremost)

I've had issues where I've seeded for days to get folks completed and the first few over the hump drop off and continue to leave me holding the bag...you don't really "owe" me anything, but is it not common courtesy to help others enjoy what you just completed...don't you feel at least a little responsible for those who are stranded or struggling with pathetic speeds??? I've waited for days to get things crawling in at less than 5k...every k is important, especially when they are the only k's available for the torrent (i.e. new ones, first ones to complete, or dying torrents) so that argument is worthless to me...some guy w/15k stuck around forever to get me a dying torrent...his ratio wasn't so good, but the upload he spent was spent where it would be most valuable...so really I guess we should all just think more about the other guy, and less about ourselves...it has nothing to do with ability...it's not about ratios as much as about character...the kinds of folks who couldn't care less about the others in the community by hit and running all the time are problematic...it's true that many good folks have bad ratios, and it's also true that a strict ratio policy would allow some assholes who oughta go to be allowed to stay, while some folks who shouldn't get the boot may get booted, so it's a sticky wicket to be certain, but I would hope there is some kind of limit to U2Lynnes kindness to those who don't deserve it...hopefully she is willing to remove those who truly abuse the site...maybe not on a ratio policy or anything, but I expect she knows an uberdouche when she sees (hears/reads) one and hopefully she will prune those who don't belong here...it's all about courtesy and respect for others...ratios are but one aspect of a members character...but usually those who fall into the asshole category usually find themselves in the shitty ratio category too...coincidence :hmm: :rolleyes: :disbelief
why are you equating a traders ratio to their character ? You make these heart on the sleeve statements as if Utopia was just around the corner.
Share what you have and get on with your life. Does it truly keep you up at night if some dude is 'stealing' a free show that you dont own in the first place.
Yes, when you seed some may not linger - big fucking deal.
As for that chap Kooky_Kat .. on the rare day that you seed something worth grabbing.. I wait, catch a ride once it is well seeded & split immediately. I do this just because I dont enjoy your arrogance, chap.

Get over yourselves. Ill take what I want when i want it. And Ill share back when I feel like it. :lmao:

Trader Dave
2007-05-18, 03:21 PM
but I expect she knows an uberdouche when she sees (hears/reads) one and hopefully she will prune those who don't belong here...it's all about courtesy and respect for others...ratios are but one aspect of a members character...but usually those who fall into the asshole category usually find themselves in the shitty ratio category too...coincidence :hmm: :rolleyes: :disbelief
Is this what people call an "us against them mentality"?

direwolf-pgh
2007-05-18, 03:22 PM
So let me see if I get it straight.. those who share .30 or more get it an hour before everyone else? :lol
exactly.. it makes no sense.. funny :lol

U2Lynne
2007-05-18, 03:30 PM
Actually, it does make sense at times. If you are seeding a show and the people who finish it first them immediately jump off, you are stuck still seeding that show. If you make sure the first people to finish it are 'sharers' and that they will continue to stick around, then you can jump off the show as the seeder a bit earlier. If you seed a lot of shows, then it makes sense to do this.

Trader Dave
2007-05-18, 03:34 PM
Actually, it does make sense at times. If you are seeding a show and the people who finish it first them immediately jump off, you are stuck still seeding that show. If you make sure the first people to finish it are 'sharers' and that they will continue to stick around, then you can jump off the show as the seeder a bit earlier. If you seed a lot of shows, then it makes sense to do this.
Can someone do a Scientific study of this and see how much time is actually saved?

It sounded to me like in his mind he was rewarding ppl for sharing and not concerned that much with saving his time. :hmm:

direwolf-pgh
2007-05-18, 03:40 PM
Actually, it does make sense at times. If you are seeding a show and the people who finish it first them immediately jump off, you are stuck still seeding that show. If you make sure the first people to finish it are 'sharers' and that they will continue to stick around, then you can jump off the show as the seeder a bit earlier. If you seed a lot of shows, then it makes sense to do this.when you seed out a show it is 'nice' if the first few stick around.
but maybe they have to leave for work.. or maybe their kids need something.. or maybe the cops are at their door.
Ive seen a lot of people jump off - only to jump back on later.
Doesnt bother me in the least. I wanted to seed out - why should it bring me down.

Blocking a few leechers just because you deem them 'unworthy' is ridiculous.
Once seeded, it is out & up for grabs for any and all - no time for whiners & ratio vigilantes :rolleyes:

Trader Dave
2007-05-18, 03:45 PM
when you seed out a show its 'nice' if the first few stick around.
but maybe they have to leave for work.. or maybe their kids need something.. or maybe the cops are at their door.
Ive seen a lot of people jump off - only to jump back on later.
Doesnt bother me in the least. I wanted to seed out - why should it bring me down.

Blocking a few leechers just because you deem them 'unworthy' is ridiculous.
Once seeded, it is out & up for grabs for any and all - no time for whiners & ratio vigilantes :rolleyes:

Nope there is no way of knowing how many ppl turn there computer off at night to turn it back on in the morning to seed a show.

Most of what i read here IS faulty logic.

direwolf-pgh
2007-05-18, 03:47 PM
Most of what i read here is faulty logic.
specifics please

bot
2007-05-18, 03:49 PM
specifics please
certainly. Kooky_Kat sounds Kooky ! :lmao:

Trader Dave
2007-05-18, 03:52 PM
specifics please
Do i really have to go into that?

Just read the stuff i said.

KoolKat
2007-05-18, 06:50 PM
certainly. Kooky_Kat sounds Kooky ! :lmao:

Its pricks like you who don't know the game.

Ever been on a torrent that is really slow?You are being braked for speed by an uber.You are connected to him,he is feeding you that 1/2k that he can spare because he's K flagged the seeders client and downloading for himself only oh..and you cant go no further until you share that piece he has given you,..when hes actually finished giving it to you.

As i said..i know they/you will get it ,but the point is that by blocking them from getting pieces directly from me during seeding means the people who deserve it 1st & get it 1st get it faster thus seeding it quicker...and crap like you can do what you want when you want.
4 birds killed with one stone

PS: when i seed something worth getting :lol good one

Looking forward to your....1st one ...to see your cut.FAQs show you how to make a torrent........chap ;)

PPS: Isn't bot another name for ass?You know...for a baby?

K_K

KoolKat
2007-05-18, 07:23 PM
As for that chap Kooky_Kat .. on the rare day that you seed something worth grabbing.. I wait, catch a ride once it is well seeded & split immediately. I do this just because I dont enjoy your arrogance, chap.

Actually ,thats quite a profound statement from someone who only joined this month has made 138 posts with 98% being in the troll area.

Penny has dropped.....you're a wind-up bot.

K_K

diggrd
2007-05-18, 08:25 PM
I gotta say sounds more like work than a hobby doing all ths investigative work just to "teach" some children to share. Even at work where I expect to be dealing with adults I understand that folks are who they are and rules and threats are gonna do little to change things. I know I don't respond well to rules, my ratio will stay at 1 or below at any site that demands I maintain a ratio. I just like the music cause Information is not Knowledge
Knowledge is not Wisdom
Wisdom is not Truth
Truth is not Beauty
Beauty is not Love
Love is not Music
Music is THE BEST
Wisdom is the domain of the Wiz, which is extinct.
Beauty is a French phonetic corruption of a short, cloth, neck ornament…currently in resurgence.

Phishblowz
2007-05-19, 12:28 AM
As for that chap Kooky_Kat .. on the rare day that you seed something worth grabbing.. I wait, catch a ride once it is well seeded & split immediately. I do this just because I dont enjoy your arrogance, chap.

Get over yourselves. Ill take what I want when i want it. And Ill share back when I feel like it. :lmao:

it's very nice of you to screw all the leechers because you think KK is a dick...that oughta really teach him a lesson :rolleyes:

it's you're attitude that makes you suck...like I said, it's just common for assholes who don't give a damn about the community to have a poor ratio as well...but frankly I'd rather ban the assholes that are deliberate in their abuse, rather than actually enforcing a ratio...if everyone felt like you there would be nothing to share, and if there was something, there would be no one to share it...the fact that this is something that needs to be explained is pitiful...

continue to do as you please (as I'm sure you will) but know that people with your "fuck everyone but me" attitude are what makes online sharing less enjoyable for those who actually respect all the time and effort being put into the community, and one of these days when bit torrent is ruined (like the GD summer tour 95) know that people like you are the reason why...without a basic respect of your environment, you will destroy it...that's why the GD were banned from all the great venues, because the fans didn't respect the place, and they were asked not to come back...Alpine Valley received most of their income from the GD community when they came through town but still had to ask them not to return in light of the damage and debris left behind in 89...one of these days, as more and more members shit where they eat (so to speak) this place is bound to shut down...be it because of the headaches the members give admin, or because of a lack of uploaders to provide material to host...one way or another, it's bound to fail as your attitude begins to dominate the net...it's pretty sad really...I have made enough friends and built enough of a collection to be satisfied if the whole shithouse goes up in flames tomorrow...if I need or want anything, I can work it out in the mail thru my friends, so it's all the same to me...but in the last years I have been downloading, it's meant a lot to me, and I'm sure it will continue to do so for others if it doesn't fall apart...I just hope people would have a little more decency and consideration for the others that also want to download...someone was kind enough to share these things with you, is it too much to ask that you be kind and also share it with someone else :hmm:

Festafarian
2007-05-19, 09:54 AM
I love your GD analogy. :lol

Tubular
2007-05-19, 09:55 AM
:lol I don't think bot's comments are meant to be taken seriously....It may not be your type of humor (insult comics like Don Rickles) but what is even more hilarious is that you guys are getting all indignant about it. :lol

he's downloaded 387 MB, so that is at most 1 audio torrent.

U2Lynne
2007-05-19, 10:49 AM
:lol I don't think bot's comments are meant to be taken seriously....
I think you are right, Tubular. I see most of bots posts over in The Lounge.

Phishblowz, luckily, I think most of the people you will run into here are pretty good sharers. I think the hit-and-run guys are not the norm around here - at least in my experience. Yeah, they are frustrating, but really, are they worth getting your knickers in a twist? Nope.

Trader Dave
2007-05-19, 12:28 PM
:lol I don't think bot's comments are meant to be taken seriously....It may not be your type of humor (insult comics like Don Rickles) but what is even more hilarious is that you guys are getting all indignant about it. :lol

he's downloaded 387 MB, so that is at most 1 audio torrent.
That only proves these guys take themselves way too serious.

Did you see the size of blowfish's post?

Tubular
2007-05-19, 01:07 PM
"Bittorrent Etiquette In Theory and Practice" just cracked Amazon's top ten. 500 pages, hardcover, $39.99 :lol

dementrium
2007-05-19, 06:50 PM
"Bittorrent Etiquette In Theory and Practice" just cracked Amazon's top ten. 500 pages, hardcover, $39.99 :lol

Please, seed it.

Tubular
2007-05-19, 07:01 PM
it will be scanned and seeded before midnight :lmao:

look for it right next to the missing watergate tapes torrent (high resolution transfer) :lmao:

U2Lynne
2007-05-19, 07:07 PM
You know, I actually went and looked for it..... :disbelief





:lol :lol :lol

Tubular
2007-05-19, 07:10 PM
You know, I actually went and looked for it..... :disbelief





:lol :lol :lol

:clap: :clap: :roflol:

bot
2007-05-19, 11:19 PM
I love your GD analogy. :lol
:popcorn: no doubt. It made as much sense as the whole ratio enforcement idea.

I think we should ban users that flame other bands with their username.

Its rude, dont you think Phishblows :lmao:

dcbullet
2007-05-20, 03:57 AM
Except that phish does blow. :hmm:

Phishblowz
2007-05-20, 09:18 AM
dcbullet is right on the money, but really it's not my intention to flame Phish exactly, or to be rude about it...it's more of an upfront acknowledgement that I don't like Phish...I do lots of mail trading and such and I don't want people to waste time tryin to trade with me for Phish stuff, nor would I be interested in seeing the Phish portion of their trade list...I don't have any contempt for their fans (there's some really good people who dig them) or anything like that, it was really a formality...but to be honest, I've received lots of mail over the years about it...and those who laught their ass off beat out those who are offended by a solid 3 to 1

and I realize that bot isn't necessarily supposed to be taken seriously, but he has said some things that struck me as hateful...as did several around here, and I just find it discouraging...but to each their own, it's not my place to enforce decency...and as for U2Lynne, don't you worry about my knickers babe, I still put em on one leg at a time ;)

as that guy in the Fantastic Four would say...FLAME ON!!!!!! :lol

Tubular
2007-05-20, 09:34 AM
In other words, it went over your head. :lol Some people might find your username "hateful" and "discouraging" :lol If it was your place to enforce decency, would you ban ironic, sarcastic humor? :lol

Tubular
2007-05-20, 09:51 AM
At first I thought your screenname was ironic (that you really dug them), but I see you are serious. How sad that you dedicated your identity (on a site that is all about sharing, no less) to disrespecting a band and its fans. I think I'm gonna change my screenname to "JimiHendrix_was_a_wanker" :lol

Tubular
2007-05-20, 10:12 AM
If you don't want to trade for a band, here is a brilliant idea: don't include that band on your ISO list. Or a simple "I'm not interested in Phish" would have sufficed. Instead, and this is what I find to be absolutely HI-larious, you probably get a lot of PM's from people who think your name is ironic (that you really dig them) and they want to trade some Phish!!!! :roflol: :lol :lol

direwolf-pgh
2007-05-20, 01:05 PM
dcbullet is right on the money, but really it's not my intention to flame Phish exactly, or to be rude about it...it's more of an upfront acknowledgement that I don't like Phish...I do lots of mail trading and such and I don't want people to waste time tryin to trade with me for Phish stuff, nor would I be interested in seeing the Phish portion of their trade list...I don't have any contempt for their fans (there's some really good people who dig them) or anything like that, it was really a formality...but to be honest, I've received lots of mail over the years about it...and those who laught their ass off beat out those who are offended by a solid 3 to 1

and I realize that bot isn't necessarily supposed to be taken seriously, but he has said some things that struck me as hateful...as did several around here, and I just find it discouraging...but to each their own, it's not my place to enforce decency...and as for U2Lynne, don't you worry about my knickers babe, I still put em on one leg at a time ;)

as that guy in the Fantastic Four would say...FLAME ON!!!!!! :lol

:disbelief :disbelief :disbelief dont feed us bullshit & then expect us to respect your thoughts.

Bot made some valid points ..in its own Bot way -sorry the truth stings (and yes bot likes to gently tease).

Dont take people for idiots Phishblowz...it pisses them off... babe.

Tubular
2007-05-20, 01:09 PM
Phishblowz needs to grow up....and lose the pompous, self-important attitude.

U2Lynne
2007-05-20, 01:10 PM
Oh, well, phooey! I post about something that was edited above. :cool:

direwolf-pgh
2007-05-20, 01:12 PM
Was direwolf's post removed by a mod? I thought it was a good post....He was right, Phishblowz needs to grow up....and lose the pompous, self-important attitude. sorry about that lynne & tubular... sometimes its best to get a thought out of your system.. then delete it.

dementrium
2007-05-20, 02:24 PM
Phishblowz needs to grow up....and lose the pompous, self-important attitude.

Personally, I'm all for some more written-on-stone gospel.


Now, excuse me, they are calling me in the string section...

:boohoo: :boohoo: :boohoo: :boohoo: :boohoo: :boohoo:
:boohoo: :boohoo: :boohoo: :boohoo: :boohoo:
:boohoo: :boohoo: :boohoo: :

Phishblowz
2007-05-20, 04:46 PM
:disbelief :disbelief :disbelief dont feed us bullshit & then expect us to respect your thoughts.

Bot made some valid points ..in its own Bot way -sorry the truth stings (and yes bot likes to gently tease).

Dont take people for idiots Phishblowz...it pisses them off... babe.

I'm very sorry you feel this way...I meant no harm, but obviously offense has been taken...I meant the U2Lynne comment in good fun...she's a great person (from what i know of her online) and she is right that I shouldn't get my knickers twisted...I was just acknowledging that, but I guess it wasn't taken right...sorry

I'm not entirely sure which bullshit you thought I was feeding you, but I'm sorry you feel the way you do...I simply feel that people who are intentionally hateful to other people aren't kind people, and there seems to be a lot of that, and I guess I fell into a little of it myself (for which I am sorry) and I guess I don't expect people to "respect" my thoughts as much as just understand how I feel about things, regardless if it's right or wrong...I am very open to the idea of being wrong and being corrected, but that can't happen unless I am honest about how I feel and get honest feedback (which is proving hard to do around here, and I too may not have been as constructive as I should be...unfortunately, and I'm sorry)

as far as a screename goes I think phish blowz and thought I'd share that with people...I really didn't know anyone online and didn't really give it a whole lotta thought, just thought it was cute, and ran with it...lots of folks think it's great, and there are a lot of folks who don't like phish who had to pm me with their approval (and dismay that they didn't think of it first) but I guess some may find it rude...but we are allowed to like and dislike whatever band we choose, and advertise the fact if we want to, but that shouldn't mean that I am attempting to offend their fans as well...my opinion of the band has nothing to do with my opinion of the fans...I love the Dead but that doesn't mean there weren't a fair share of assholes n the crowd...I'm sure many phish fans are good people...I've always enjoyed your efforts here, and try to be kind and post nice things and such on the torrents, and I am a little surprised that you would take me that way, so I must have come off rather poorly...for that I apologize once again

I think now that I have discussed the issue at length and received lots of helpful feedback on the matter, I have come to this...originally I felt that a ratio enforcement would ban many of the people that abuse the site, but then I realized (through constructive feedback) that it would ban good people too, and then I figured we could adjust the ratio to reflect the other efforts of sharing (bnp and vines, etc.) but it was pointed out that it would be a statistical nightmare for admin so I abandoned that idea...then I said we should ban people who are intentionally hateful and obnoxious, but it has become apparent that I, while trying to be a decent person, have come across as the same type of asshole I complain about (I feel pretty bad about that BTW) so I think we are left with only one solution...submission to the status quo...but I am left with just one question...

can't we all just get along :hmm: :lol :hmm:

sorry I offended some folks...some I intended to offend and some took offense who I didn't intend to, but hopefully all this can be put behind us...I haven't got much else to add on the thread topic, because truly there is no answer but to leave it alone, or just shut the whole friggin thing down...there is no reasonable grey area on this one...so I will leave it alone...hopefully I will be forgiven for being a bit aggressive...I let it get to me, and I am working hard to let it go, and be a better person...and to reiterate...phish DOES blow, but they have some cool fans...please don't be offended by that, but I am known as who I am and to change that now would be a real pain in the ass...in retrospect I wish I had picked something cooler, but it's my name, and I live with it...I hope you can too...I love this place (I think we all do for watever our reasons are) so we all have something in common...hopefully we can build on that and not harbor resentment against each other...peace and love people (sorry I let hate and contempt seep in)

Respectfully,
Will

Tubular
2007-05-20, 05:28 PM
:D It's all good man, not that you need my approval or anything. :thumbsup I understand how those hit-and-runners (with good upload speeds) can be extremely frustrating.

direwolf-pgh
2007-05-20, 05:33 PM
can't we all just get along :hmm: :lol :hmm:
:) absolutely !

I personally wish to thank you for all the great seeds that you have offered here - You would be surprised how many of them have brought me endless enjoyment. Your contribution & efforts have not gone unnoticed :thumbsup

-craig

& what tubular said... its all good!

Tubular
2007-05-20, 07:24 PM
Phishblowz: give Phish 8-17-96 (Clifford Ball) set 2 a listen. If it doesn't do anything for you, they probably aren't for you. :D Though I would guess you have probably given them a fair chance already.

Clifford Ball
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=25182

Phishblowz
2007-05-20, 08:29 PM
thanx guys...nice to know that water can still flow under the bridge without taking it out...I also appreciate your suggestion as to what constitutes a "good" phish show...I am not necessarily unreasonable, and I appreciate the gesture...there's too many good folks out there to spend my time trying to crucify the fuckers of the bunch...besides, to a handful, I'm one of the fuckers, so live and let live...I'm allowed to think uberleechers are douchebags, and they allowed to think whatever the hell they please...it's not my place to give a damn what they think and do, and vice versa...believe it or not, for all the bullshit in this thread (a bunch of which I am responsible for) I actually gained a lot of useful info from this thread...hopefully I can put it to practice

and as for direwolf-pgh...ditto bro, thanx for the good times...I've spent many a disc on your generosity...and I thank you for it :cool:

bot
2007-05-20, 09:06 PM
and they lived happily ever after ! The End :lmao:

Silver Stallion DVDs
2007-05-20, 11:14 PM
I'm very sorry you feel this way...I meant no harm, but obviously offense has been taken...I meant the U2Lynne comment in good fun...she's a great person (from what i know of her online) and she is right that I shouldn't get my knickers twisted...I was just acknowledging that, but I guess it wasn't taken right...sorry

I'm not entirely sure which bullshit you thought I was feeding you, but I'm sorry you feel the way you do...I simply feel that people who are intentionally hateful to other people aren't kind people, and there seems to be a lot of that, and I guess I fell into a little of it myself (for which I am sorry) and I guess I don't expect people to "respect" my thoughts as much as just understand how I feel about things, regardless if it's right or wrong...I am very open to the idea of being wrong and being corrected, but that can't happen unless I am honest about how I feel and get honest feedback (which is proving hard to do around here, and I too may not have been as constructive as I should be...unfortunately, and I'm sorry)

as far as a screename goes I think phish blowz and thought I'd share that with people...I really didn't know anyone online and didn't really give it a whole lotta thought, just thought it was cute, and ran with it...lots of folks think it's great, and there are a lot of folks who don't like phish who had to pm me with their approval (and dismay that they didn't think of it first) but I guess some may find it rude...but we are allowed to like and dislike whatever band we choose, and advertise the fact if we want to, but that shouldn't mean that I am attempting to offend their fans as well...my opinion of the band has nothing to do with my opinion of the fans...I love the Dead but that doesn't mean there weren't a fair share of assholes n the crowd...I'm sure many phish fans are good people...I've always enjoyed your efforts here, and try to be kind and post nice things and such on the torrents, and I am a little surprised that you would take me that way, so I must have come off rather poorly...for that I apologize once again

I think now that I have discussed the issue at length and received lots of helpful feedback on the matter, I have come to this...originally I felt that a ratio enforcement would ban many of the people that abuse the site, but then I realized (through constructive feedback) that it would ban good people too, and then I figured we could adjust the ratio to reflect the other efforts of sharing (bnp and vines, etc.) but it was pointed out that it would be a statistical nightmare for admin so I abandoned that idea...then I said we should ban people who are intentionally hateful and obnoxious, but it has become apparent that I, while trying to be a decent person, have come across as the same type of asshole I complain about (I feel pretty bad about that BTW) so I think we are left with only one solution...submission to the status quo...but I am left with just one question...

can't we all just get along :hmm: :lol :hmm:

sorry I offended some folks...some I intended to offend and some took offense who I didn't intend to, but hopefully all this can be put behind us...I haven't got much else to add on the thread topic, because truly there is no answer but to leave it alone, or just shut the whole friggin thing down...there is no reasonable grey area on this one...so I will leave it alone...hopefully I will be forgiven for being a bit aggressive...I let it get to me, and I am working hard to let it go, and be a better person...and to reiterate...phish DOES blow, but they have some cool fans...please don't be offended by that, but I am known as who I am and to change that now would be a real pain in the ass...in retrospect I wish I had picked something cooler, but it's my name, and I live with it...I hope you can too...I love this place (I think we all do for watever our reasons are) so we all have something in common...hopefully we can build on that and not harbor resentment against each other...peace and love people (sorry I let hate and contempt seep in)

Respectfully,
Will
Dude ~

Nice post. But... aren't you overdoing the apology thing a bit? I mean... you say you're sorry ~ and usually that should suffice. If you really did something bad... sure it's OK to apologize a second time later in the post. But for crying out loud... you must have apologized six or seven times (I didn't bother counting... maybe even more).

Cheers,

Randy

guygee
2007-05-21, 01:29 AM
I'm very sorry you feel this way...I meant no harm, but obviously offense has been taken...I meant the U2Lynne comment in good fun...she's a great person (from what i know of her online) and she is right that I shouldn't get my knickers twisted...I was just acknowledging that, but I guess it wasn't taken right...sorry

I'm not entirely sure which bullshit you thought I was feeding you, but I'm sorry you feel the way you do...I simply feel that people who are intentionally hateful to other people aren't kind people, and there seems to be a lot of that, and I guess I fell into a little of it myself (for which I am sorry) and I guess I don't expect people to "respect" my thoughts as much as just understand how I feel about things, regardless if it's right or wrong...I am very open to the idea of being wrong and being corrected, but that can't happen unless I am honest about how I feel and get honest feedback (which is proving hard to do around here, and I too may not have been as constructive as I should be...unfortunately, and I'm sorry)


Phishblowz you are a good man and a good trader, a good sharer and an asset to whatever site you frequent. TTD is lucky that you are here. Fuck the trolls, they infest this site. You do not have anything to be sorry for.

Powderfinger
2007-05-21, 10:00 AM
Except that phish does blow. :hmm:

I thought it was mostly just Trey who did all the blow???

:hmm:

Phishblowz
2007-05-21, 07:12 PM
I thought it was mostly just Trey who did all the blow???

:hmm:

friggin hilarious :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

and I know I need not apologize, and I know I can stand on my merits as a trader and all around good guy, but when I realized that some people I respected thought I was being a dick, that I had crossed a line that really kinda bothered me personally...I apologize more to myself for being caught up in this (I should be more mature than that) and so I say what I said...it was more for me than anyone and it made me feel better...also seemed to quell the rising storm too

thanx for bearing with me...being a top notch uploader doesn't give me the right to be an asshole, but it hopefully makes it easier to forgive me :D

looks like the cable company cut my upload in half but didn't reduce the bill any :disbelief so sharing is now more of a bitch, but I'll offer somethin up before too long...been awhile since I shared something...I'm afraid I might get rusty :lol

Phishblowz
2007-05-21, 07:18 PM
Dude ~

Nice post. But... aren't you overdoing the apology thing a bit? I mean... you say you're sorry ~ and usually that should suffice. If you really did something bad... sure it's OK to apologize a second time later in the post. But for crying out loud... you must have apologized six or seven times (I didn't bother counting... maybe even more).

Cheers,

Randy

now that you mention it, maybe it was a bit excessive...damn!!! I didn't realize I was quite so apologetic, but I meant it and so I stand by it...I feel a debt to the community and all those who made my collecton what it is...it angers me that I feel so obligated to give back while so many couldn't care less, but this is my cross to bear, and I am still happy to share..."letting the bastards grind me down" would be my own fault for allowing it...and so with that I move on to more productive things...take care friends :wave:

Trader Dave
2007-05-21, 08:16 PM
Phishblowz you are a good man and a good trader, a good sharer and an asset to whatever site you frequent. TTD is lucky that you are here. Fuck the trolls, they infest this site. You do not have anything to be sorry for.
Nice guy = Person i agree with

Troll = person who has a different opinion than mine and keeps making me post.

Trader Dave
2007-05-21, 08:21 PM
I was on a torrent for a couple days on Demonoid and ppl kept jumping off after they reached a hundred% leaving me to stay on. I just figured the ppl who get stuck will learn a lesson if it's something they want bad enough and help others next time. I did end up coming back and seeding but i only did it for a couple hours a day. ;)

with that said i have never been stuck and not got what i wanted using bittorrent.

Trader Dave
2007-05-21, 08:34 PM
it angers me that I feel so obligated to give back while so many couldn't care less, but this is my cross to bear, and I am still happy to share..."letting the bastards grind me down" would be my own fault for allowing it...and so with that I move on to more productive things...take care friends :wave:
Wow i think you just figured out my secret.

Phishblowz
2007-05-21, 08:52 PM
I was on a torrent for a couple days on Demonoid and ppl kept jumping off after they reached a hundred% leaving me to stay on. I just figured the ppl who get stuck will learn a lesson if it's something they want bad enough and help others next time. I did end up coming back and seeding but i only did it for a couple hours a day. ;)

with that said i have never been stuck and not got what i wanted using bittorrent.

bear in mind that, although I am not disagreeing with you, you are punishing the leechers for the actions of the completes...that's not really fair, but then again, that IS what we're talkin about...what's fair and what's not...but demonoid is terrible for hit and runners, moreso than any other place I ever seen...good man helpin out...better to punish them with torturously slow speed or sporadic seed help rather than screw em outright

and BTW...FU for not sharin your secrets sir...I wrestled with this for quite some time, and you had the answer I was lookin for all along...where the hell were you??? ;) :lol

oh well, at least I know now...better late than never...now if you'll excuse me, I hear the short bus honkin :imslow:

Trader Dave
2007-05-21, 09:04 PM
bear in mind that, although I am not disagreeing with you, you are punishing the leechers
I'm not punishing anyone. I could care less if ppl leave.
I just wondered how the ppl who leave early would feel if they got stuck themselves. Lets get this straight i have no intention to punish anyone.

Phishblowz
2007-05-22, 12:24 AM
I was on a torrent for a couple days on Demonoid and ppl kept jumping off after they reached a hundred% leaving me to stay on. I just figured the ppl who get stuck will learn a lesson if it's something they want bad enough and help others next time. I did end up coming back and seeding but i only did it for a couple hours a day. ;)


I took that to mean that you decided to dump the torrent in frustration in response to the hit and runners, which would be punishing the leechers that didn't have a chance to show if they would dump it or not...if I misunderstood, then my mistake...but if you said what I thought you said (or how I interpreted it) then that would be punishing (or "teaching a lesson") to the wrong folks...but regardless of that, on the bigger picture of things, you're right, so many folks take it for granted that these torrents are just there...like magic...and they figure that their insignificant little upload speeds can't make a difference in the overall scheme of things, and it's just not true...maybe getting stranded would wise them up to the fact that a simple 20k or even less would have been heaven sent, but chances are they'll just consider that losing 1 in a million torrents is just par for the course and it probably wouldn't change a thing...but what do I know :hmm:

as far as not caring about the hit and runners, you must admit (well, I guess you don't HAVE to admit) that it IS a bitch when you want to do something else with your bandwidth and feel obligated to help people complete the torrent...it sucks being the lone seeder and waiting for the completes just to watch em go as fast as they came...I guess it's not the end of the world, but it definately sucks ass...why do they feel okay about ditching all the other folks waitin to complete while I would lose sleep over it...sometimes having a conscience REALLY blowz ;)

direwolf-pgh
2007-05-22, 02:04 AM
i seed because people enjoy it... :hmm: why am i supposed to get upset

ezytouch
2007-09-03, 08:05 PM
i seed whenever i'm online (i only just worked out that Shareaza can do it!)... everytime my ratio starts to look good i see another show that i want desperately and so it drops again. i figure that eventually i will have fulfilled these desperations and my presence here will be as a seeder far more than a downloader. this keeps me positive.

incidentally, most of these shows that we're downloading/uploading are beautiful things (many of them indeed recorded during the era of love and peace and psychotropic elevation in music), and therefore the process should not evoke the kind of aggressive negativity that i've read throughout this thread.

not that i'm criticising, in fact i think its kinda funky when you start beating up on each other.

Labonza
2007-09-05, 06:48 PM
Hi.I'm kind of new here and was wondering if there was a specific policy.

My ISP "throttles" or speed-reduces torrent traffic. They used to do it on everything, but now it's mostly on uploads.ATM, my d/l speed is 105-110 kbs/sec and the u/l speed is 3.5 kbs/sec. This seems to be fairly typical the last few days,give or take.I dont think I've seen the u/l speed ever go above 10 kbs/sec.

So what do I do here? Leave uTorrent running 24/7/365 to try and let the ratio catch up? Other local ISPs that claim to have no throttling arent anywhere near as reliable as this one according to their users and cost more.I guess I'll be branded a Big Time Leech for awhile.

*looks for leech smiley*

U2Lynne
2007-09-05, 07:05 PM
No, we don't have an explicit ratio policy. We ask that people do whatever they can to help share - keep your ratio up, offer B&Ps, start Vines/Trees/Loops, make artwork, help people in Technobabble, donate, etc - anything to help the site out.

With the way some ISPs are throttling traffic (blocking uploads after downloading), it may be best to throttle your own download speed so you can upload for as long as possible. Sure, this will slow down your download, but it will also ensure you will get to upload for longer.

If possible, it's suggested to set one or two shows to upload when you are not using your computer - I set mine to upload overnight all the time.

schmoe75
2007-09-05, 07:41 PM
Stop downloading 6 dvd's at once.
1 or 2 at the time, leave them open till you upload back what you took down.
THEN start a new download, after giving back NOT while you're giving back.
This is 1 or 2 total, not per site, assuming you dl from other sites as well.

Welcome :wave:

Labonza
2007-09-05, 09:17 PM
If possible, it's suggested to set one or two shows to upload when you are not using your computer - I set mine to upload overnight all the time.

I just noticed that uTorrent has an auto-scheduler feature to run itself at specific times. As soon as I get it set, I'll let it run all night.

Labonza
2007-09-05, 09:22 PM
Stop downloading 6 dvd's at once.
1 or 2 at the time, leave them open till you upload back what you took down.
THEN start a new download, after giving back NOT while you're giving back.
This is 1 or 2 total, not per site, assuming you dl from other sites as well.

Welcome :wave:

I seem to be running rapidly out of hard disk space so I cut 4 d/ls back to 2. :D
As soon as they're done, I'll run it at night on an scheduler.

Until I offload some of this stuff to DVDs or another drive, i wont be d/ling anything for a while. :wtf:

:wave:

splumer
2007-09-06, 09:23 PM
Can someone figure out the math on this one for me: In order for some people to have a ratio over 1, isn't it necessary for some people to have a ratio below 1? Is it possible for all users to have a ratio over 1, or would the highest average ratio possible for all members be 1.0?

Chachi420
2007-09-06, 09:47 PM
Can someone figure out the math on this one for me: In order for some people to have a ratio over 1, isn't it necessary for some people to have a ratio below 1? Is it possible for all users to have a ratio over 1, or would the highest average ratio possible for all members be 1.0?
you are correct. The average of all users should equal 1.0 in a steady state system. Input = Output

Tappy
2007-09-12, 07:10 AM
The way i try and keep my ratio up is to have a ratio of 1:1.5, that way if for whatever reason I cant seed a show I have downloaded my ratio is still around 1. Every torrent site I am a member of my ratio is above 1 except one (which after approx 50GB i have downloaded I have uploaded over 40Gb, which is approx 0.8 ratio). Just keep the torrent open for a week, you'll find 9 times out of 10 you will upload more than you downloaded unless you jumped on the torrent very very late. Personally I don't see why people need to close a torrent as soon as they have finished downloading it.

Just my two cents... :)

possessed
2007-09-12, 08:13 PM
you are correct. The average of all users should equal 1.0 in a steady state system. Input = Output
But you forget all the hash fails that are introduced into the equation. I've had 500 MB torrents with 30 MB failed. This can throw off the whole system. It still counts toward your ratio even if it isn't useful. You or I may up/down a piece into the mix but it may be worthless. Someone who has a few minor gigs is negligible, but someone who ups/downs 100's of gigs (or even TB's), this can count a large chunk into the whole ratio. This is one of the many variables that can effect a ratio (bad trackers, flaky clients, stopping/starting in the middle of a torrent etc).

Welcome to steady state. :D

splumer
2007-09-13, 05:03 PM
But you forget all the hash fails that are introduced into the equation. I've had 500 MB torrents with 30 MB failed. This can throw off the whole system. It still counts toward your ratio even if it isn't useful. You or I may up/down a piece into the mix but it may be worthless. Someone who has a few minor gigs is negligible, but someone who ups/downs 100's of gigs (or even TB's), this can count a large chunk into the whole ratio. This is one of the many variables that can effect a ratio (bad trackers, flaky clients, stopping/starting in the middle of a torrent etc).

Welcome to steady state. :D

Thus... people who flame those with low ratios are wankers. :lol: OK, I guess the moral of the story is that good ratios should be encouraged, but if it's less than 1.0, that keeps those of us above 1.... above 1.

possessed
2007-09-13, 06:50 PM
Thus... people who flame those with low ratios are wankers. :lol: OK, I guess the moral of the story is that good ratios should be encouraged, but if it's less than 1.0, that keeps those of us above 1.... above 1.
I have nothing against someone with a ratio under one if...I repeat, IF...they are just starting or the ratio is close to one. It's the leechers with a .14 ratio and have downloaded 356 gigs. The only way to explain that is simple selfishness and greed.

Silver Stallion DVDs
2007-09-13, 09:40 PM
I have nothing against someone with a ratio under one if...I repeat, IF...they are just starting or the ratio is close to one. It's the leechers with a .14 ratio and have downloaded 356 gigs. The only way to explain that is simple selfishness and greed.
Have you ever not been able to download something here at TTD because of another member's low share ratio?

possessed
2007-09-13, 09:59 PM
Have you ever not been able to download something here at TTD because of another member's low share ratio?
yes.

There have been times when I missed a show (gone away from the home computer for a few weeks) and found the torrent on it's last legs. The 1 or 2 seeds left on it have jumped ship before us leechers have finished. I always check ratios of the members before downloading. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. Not everyone uses a client like Azureus (like myself) and jumps back on torrents that need seeds when needed. I try to keep torrents in Azureus as long as they are active in case some one needs a seed or the S/L ratio gets low. After that I delete them. Right now I have 19 torrents in my finished list and jump on those that need help whenever I have can.

Silver Stallion DVDs
2007-09-13, 10:07 PM
yes.

There have been times when I missed a show (gone away from the home computer for a few weeks) and found the torrent on it's last legs. The 1 or 2 seeds left on it have jumped ship before us leechers have finished. I always check ratios of the members before downloading. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. Not everyone uses a client like Azureus (like myself) and jumps back on torrents that need seeds when needed. I try to keep torrents in Azureus as long as they are active in case some one needs a seed or the S/L ratio gets low. After that I delete them. Right now I have 19 torrents in my finished list and jump on those that need help whenever I have can.
Umm......other than the first word in your post, what has any of this got to do with my original question?

Alright...getting back to that "yes" answer. Please give a specific example of a show you were not able to download because someone here at TTD had a low SR.

direwolf-pgh
2007-09-14, 06:35 PM
:wave: happy birthday

indementia
2007-09-16, 01:31 PM
I've read that you can change your port number to something out of the "normal" range and beat your ISP from throttling your upload speed on torrents. My ISP doesn't do it but if they did I'd give that a shot.

I'm using port #65534 but I think 6551 is the normal.

starchild67
2007-09-21, 11:47 PM
fuck the ratio , they have one choice ,let it go or close the site :mad: :D :wave:

possessed
2007-09-25, 09:59 PM
Umm......other than the first word in your post, what has any of this got to do with my original question?

Alright...getting back to that "yes" answer. Please give a specific example of a show you were not able to download because someone here at TTD had a low SR.
Sorry for taking so long to respond. Don't check this forum often.

The shows in question are long gone and deleted so I have no idea what they were. Sorry I don't have specifics.

As far as my extra response to the original post, I keep shows in my Azureus queue for several months. When they are dead they get deleted. I was only pointing out that it isn't hard for the average person to keep their ratio up by checking shows that need help. If I can jump on an old torrent that needs help when I'm not downloading, so can anyone. I suck my provider for every drop of bandwidth they provide. :)

possessed
2007-09-25, 09:59 PM
:wave: happy birthday
thanks Bea Otch. :)

Audioarchivist
2007-09-26, 04:23 AM
I keep just about everything active in Azureus - currently about 240 torrents.
I regularly look at the list in order by number of peers. It then shows who's leeching what, and how many seeds are on each one. Then I look for all the zero seeds, and jump on accordingly.

gunfighter_001
2007-11-27, 09:36 PM
Hi there,

first, many thanks and congrats for this nice place.

Question: Why do I need to have a nice ratio (I mean, higher than 1.0)?
Answer: You don't need to. It's ratio free.

So, I don't need to. Nobody needs too. And how/why the sistem is still working and surviving? Because some people is paying the bill, and not exactly because I/We love to do it. We have no option if we want some gigs.

And that's why The Genesis-Movement has the best SRE. The first 24 hours are for the best ratios. After that, you just stay if you want to or need. What I like, specially, is that I don't need to share my bandwidth with leechers.
People with nice ratios can share and so, after that, the leechers can TRY to get the gigs (and I wonder how, if they just don't like to share... but that's their problem, not mine).
That's a sugestion.

Thanks again,

gun.

PS: I'm not under a powerful bandwidth, it's really hard to keep and mantain a nice ratio.

dementrium
2007-11-27, 10:40 PM
^^ :hmm: I don't understand what you're saying. :hmm: I mean, you answered and asked your own question? :hmm: :hmm:
Also, what is a Genesis-Movement? :hmm:

door71
2007-11-28, 10:38 AM
I find it fairly easy to keep a good ratio if you don't cut and run after downloading a show.

dementrium
2007-11-28, 02:37 PM
^^ Please, define your take on the word "easy".

In my particular case, to achieve what you have done on 7 months (600 Gb), would take me almost 2 years as long as I put my bt client solely on seeding mode with "perfect" conditions: that is, people getting all my bw all the time.

On the other hand, believe it or not, I hate too the "hit and run" thing. More than that, sometimes I feel there are people that dl a batch of shows, then run and register with another name, without even bother to post a crap or two (people with 0 posts, I mean).

door71
2007-11-28, 03:53 PM
I guess my Verizon FIOS kicks ass. :D

dementrium
2007-11-28, 04:26 PM
I guess my Verizon FIOS kicks ass. :D
:cool:
So, let me be in your place for one month to raise my stats! I would trade that for my bbq'ing skills, as long as there we can get real meat with real fat, and real wood to make real fire. :kat:

I'd rephrase the question here as:

Is there an interest for a ratio post policy and anti-aliasing mechanism here?

The ratio post would sound stupid, but at least could be a way to lessen the anonimity :wtf:

gunfighter_001
2007-11-28, 05:34 PM
Hi there,

first, many thanks and congrats for this nice place.

Question: Why do I need to have a nice ratio (I mean, higher than 1.0)?
Answer: You don't need to. It's ratio free (TTD).

So, I don't need to. Nobody needs too. And how/why the sistem is still working and surviving? Because some people is paying the bill, and not exactly because I/We love to do it. We have no option if we want some gigs.

And that's why The Genesis-Movement [ http://torrent.genesis-movement.org/ ] has the best SRE. The first 24 hours are for the best ratios. After that, you just stay if you want to or need. What I like, specially, is that I don't need to share my bandwidth with leechers.

People with nice ratios can share and so, after that, the leechers can TRY to get the gigs (and I wonder how, if they just don't like to share... but that's their problem, not mine).
That's my sugestion.

Thanks again,

gun.