Ban Unknown Analog Lineage and Remasters!

[Spider_Web]

My take on music sharing via bittorrent and the Internet is to preserve and document the recording history as well as share things "AS IS"! Ban remasters! Why do some people feel it's necessary to "remaster" a recording and re-distribute it? Anyone these days can "remaster" a show on their computer. That's fine, but don't circulate it - you are taking away from the integrity of the recording. Polluting the waters. Remasters should be banned from distribution. Leave things AS IS. I'm not the only one who has voiced their displeasure with so called "remasters" by average Joe's who have computers and think they have an ear for sound. I personally don't give a rat's ass if someone's EQ job makes the sound better to a few people - it's all arbitrary anyway. You have now tainted the recording. Polluted the water. Let the listener adjust the controls if they choose.

Also, ban the unknown cassette lineage! I hope people realize that the term "lossless" means a whole heck of a lot more than just that a recording has never been converted to a lossy digital format such as MP3 or MiniDisc. Lossless truly means that one has a non-manipulated recording that has never suffered any analog or digital loss. The entire lossless thing is a joke. So much garbage gets torrented, but becuase it has never been converted to MP3 or MiniDisc, it's OK? So many shows are taken from unknown sources. Generation unknown. Yeah, that's real good.

Gee, let's torrent show from 1988 from a cassette that was bought at a flea market 5 years ago. It's probably been high-speed dubbed 7 times, and is 10 generations away from the master cassette. But because it's never been converted to MP3 or MiniDisc, it's considered lossless and OK to torrent. How absolutely preposterous.

Any true master tape or hard drive recording is lossless. A master DAT tape that has been dubbed to another DAT tape via an optical or coaxial cable (a clone) is lossless. A digital conversion to MP3 is lossy. Anything that goes through an analog signal is lossy. A master analog cassette that gets dubbed to another cassette has lost quality. First, second and third generation cassettes aren't bad; one knows the generational history, and it's not always possibly to source a recording back to the master cassette or reel. Don't let "silver" CD's fool you, they can very easily be lossy - and most are. Bootleg companies are evil! Most of them could care less what source they use to press a show on CD. It's all about money. In most cases, we have no idea what generation tape was used in creating a bootleg "silver" CD. We should all prefer tape or digital sourced material with generational lineage as opposed to the bootleg releases.

Converting a show from analog to digital technically is lossy, but one has to get it into the digital domain. The analog to digital conversion if done with good equipment loses less than an analog to analog copy. When a show is converted from analog to digital, it should be played back on a decent cassette deck or reel to reel machine with clean heads, and a good analog to digital converter should be used. Once the recording is in the digital domain, it should now be converted from wave to a lossless format such as FLAC or SHN, and LEFT ALONE. The same goes for DAT or digital hard drive recordings. Convert them to lossless FLAC or SHN, and THAT'S IT.

Also, list the type of recording equipment and unit model and well as microphones used (if you know them) when seeding or trading a show. And most people here do.

Traders Den does the best of all the BT sites is regards to promoting quality. But letting an unknown cassette sourced show be seeded completely defeats the entire purpose. Dimeadozen has turned into a freakin' germ pool, and it gets tiring wading through all the piss. I know more "pro lineage" people are here on Traders Den.

Thanks for reading my opinion. What's yours?

[v8juice]

I'm for banning so called remasters. Let me decide if I want to fuck things up, please. In order to do that, I'd need the original...

[U2Lynne]

While I do agree with a lot of what you wrote, I do have these comments:

Remasters - we do ask that people label these as such and we do like to get remastering notes. Usually these are remasters of things that had been previously torrented and so the 'raw' version is already out there and available. I have a couple of remastered shows that I actually prefer over the original, but they are done by people that are 'known' for their remastering abilities. I also have some shows that I prefer the 'raw' mix and not the remastered version. I have never tried my hand at remastering and never will, so I'm glad I do have those few remastered versions I obtained. But, as I said, I *know* they are remastered and I would never trade them as anything else (if I were still trading). Back when I was trading, I actually had some people ask for the raw source over the remastered source, so that's what they got. Anyway, what I'm really trying to say is that I don't have a problem with remastered stuff as long as it's labeled as remastered.

Unknown cassette lineage - I'm a bit iffy on this. I think it's great if someone actually does know the generation on a cassette, however we are usually talking about shows from the 70s and 80s here and most people just didn't know or keep track of that back then (most, not all). So, if someone has some cassette stashed away in storage and they decide to transfer it and torrent it, we have allowed it.

Silver CDs - yes, we know that the bootleggers are just out to make money and so they press whatever generation of the recording they finally manage to get their hands on. We have pulled shows torrented from a Silver CD for being lossy. We always (whenever we notice or it's brought to our attention) pull shows if it is any generation removed from the Silver. If you have a show you want to torrent from a Silver CD, it must be from the actual Silver CD. We have pulled many shows from having a CDR in the lineage after the Silver CD. We don't disallow Silver CDs however because their actually are some tapers who tape to sell to the bootleggers. So, we do want to liberate those.

Those are my immediate thoughts on this. I'll post if I have most to add after rereading your post when I have more time.

[Spider_Web]

Lynne: I understand your thoughts on the remasters, hopefully the people here at TTD do mark things as such. I have more of an issue with people on DIME who grab a recording within a day, screw with it on their computer, and reseed as THEIR remastered version. That's about them wanting glorification, not the music. Next thing you know, you have 5 "remasters" by 5 people floating around.

I also understand that back in the 70's, 80's, 90's (and sadly even now), people haven't always kept track of their analog cassette generations. I've been taping and trading for over 20 years, I've taped over 200 shows, have over 1000 DAT tapes, and over 3000 analog tapes. (Yes, I've been obsessed with the live music experience for most of my life - and thank god my wife puts up with an attic full of tape). Anyway, I was fortunate enough to make some great contacts back in the days of mail trading, and I was able to keep track of the generations for most of my shows. Obviously, there were cases where someoene had a show that I wanted but didn't know the generation. It's more about communicating to people that the SOURCE of the recording is important. If forced to choose, I'd rather take a Jimi Hendrix audience tape that was taken directly from the master and converted to MP3 than the same tape taken from an unknown analog generation and converted to FLAC. I suppose the choice is up to the downloader, and as long as it's labled as "C?" (cassette generation unknown), people know what they could be in for.

My purist side gets the best of me sometimes.

Anyway, keep up the good work here. Slowly but surely I'm gonna convert the cream of my collection to FLAC, and seed things here on TTD. Especially some Zeppelin stuff from master tape sources. Culling stuff from master sources makes the "silver" cds not so interesting!

[Lou]

I'm OK with unknown gen cassette if there's no known gen out there of the show. What I absolutely can't stand (and will not download) is this:

unknown gen cass>unknown transfer>CDR(x)>EAC>WAV>FLAC

I don't see the point of torrenting something that you are COMPLETELY clueless about.

As far as remastering goes, I don't care for it but I wouldn't ban it so long as the remastering process is spelled out in detail. If the lineage however simply states it was "remastered" with nothing more, I'd ban it because that's a crap lineage.

[freezer]

My take on music sharing via bittorrent and the Internet is to preserve and document the recording history as well as share things "AS IS"! Ban remasters! .........

Also, ban the unknown cassette lineage! ....

My friend, my friend, where were you when we were discussing Led Zeppelin lineages?

:cool:


I'm OK with unknown gen cassette if there's no known gen out there of the show. ...

C'mon, Lou...what's your best guess?

What do you think:

What percent of the circulating body of Led Zeppelin recordings have verifiable lineages?

And what percent of them Van Halen recordings have verifiable lineages?

:wave:

[Fact]

Thanks for reading my opinion. What's yours?

I am also for banning resampling/converting sample rates. If the DAT is 48 khz then share it 48khz whether it be 48 khz flacs or making a DVD out of them. Time to get with the 21st century. For Zeppelin I've only seen Bobbyplant and Presence do this so far.

[freezer]

I am also for banning resampling/converting sample rates. If the DAT is 48 khz then share it 48khz whether it be 48 khz flacs or making a DVD out of them. Time to get with the 21st century. For Zeppelin I've only seen Bobbyplant and Presence do this so far.

Well, so, how many Led Zeppelin master tapes were originally recorded on DAT?

[Fact]

None. Are you saying all analog recordings should never be brought into the digital domain? I'm just saying that once a recording is sampled into the digital world resampling should not be done.

[freezer]

None. Are you saying all analog recordings should never be brought into the digital domain?

Nope.

You may be misunderstanding something.

How did you extrapolate that idea from what I said?

[Spider_Web]

Do BobbyPlant and Presence know the digital lineage of stuff they are converting? All my Zeppelin on cassette, CDR and DAT (200 of them) all have proper lineage. As an example, not CM>DAT(X). For instance, my 7/21/69 is CM>DAT>DAT.

And for the most part, I also know the names of the people that were involved in the lineage (taper, converter, traders, etc..). 20+ years of this stuff. Documentation is huge.

[the phantom engineer]

All my Zeppelin on cassette, CDR and DAT (200 of them) all have proper lineage.

For instance, my 7/21/69 is CM>DAT>DAT.

And for the most part, I also know the names of the people that were involved in the lineage (taper, converter, traders, etc..). 20+ years of this stuff. Documentation is huge.

if you are going to share these shows, can you post this information and let us see what will become available?

it would be interesting to hear what (if any) upgrades you have

thanks

[Spider_Web]

I will be sharing lots of things; unfortunately time is limited due to two little ones running around the house!

[freezer]

Do BobbyPlant and Presence know the digital lineage of stuff they are converting? All my Zeppelin on cassette, CDR and DAT (200 of them) all have proper lineage. As an example, not CM>DAT(X). For instance, my 7/21/69 is CM>DAT>DAT.

And for the most part, I also know the names of the people that were involved in the lineage (taper, converter, traders, etc..). 20+ years of this stuff. Documentation is huge.

Cool......

.......so what lineage do you have for Led Zeppelin 2/28/75 Baton Rouge?

[Spider_Web]

Baton Rouge C1>D2 (cassette1>DAT>DAT). I'm guessing you either did that one Freezer, or know who did. You may have already posted this info, but it would be cool to know what type of deck and mics were used for that show, and for the '72 Stones Mobil, '73 Zep NO and '75 Fleetwood Mac NO. If you want to know who I got my DAT from for the Baton Rouge, PM me, I don't like to publically mention old traders. Has the Baton Rouge been circulated from the master>FLAC? It's a great show - Bon Soir!

[freezer]

Baton Rouge C1>D2 (cassette1>DAT>DAT). I'm guessing you either did that one Freezer, or know who did. You may have already posted this info, but it would be cool to know what type of deck and mics were used for that show, and for the '72 Stones Mobil, '73 Zep NO and '75 Fleetwood Mac NO. If you want to know who I got my DAT from for the Baton Rouge, PM me, I don't like to publically mention old traders.......

Your lineage ABSOLUTELY is dead wrong.......Whoever you got it from didn't tell you the truth......

Has the Baton Rouge been circulated from the master>FLAC? It's a great show - Bon Soir!

Nope.....

It's available only as "Unverified generation" ........

[Spider_Web]

Your lineage ABSOLUTELY is dead wrong.......Whoever you got it from didn't tell you the truth......



Nope.....

It's available only as "Unverified generation" ........

Well, then you are calling some serious Led Zep collectors liars. PM me and I'll tell you who I got it from. I don't play games. If you have the master, great. But you have circulated the show, so how do you know I don't have it from a person that you gave it to? I've been doing this shit far to long to start playing games with a 70's taper who wants to retain lineage control of his recordings. If you have the master, congrats, and you seeding it from the master would be a lineage upgrade for all. If not, that's your choice, but don't start trying to disprove my credibility.

All I will say publically is that I've had multiple copies of the 2/28/75 dating back for years. The first gen to DAT I got was an upgrade to all my previous versions, and sounds great. The collector I got it from is well-known by all hardcore Zep collectors, is a great guy, does not lie, and has been trading with me for 15 years. And I'm happy with my 1st gen.

I have NOTHING to hide. 20 years of tracking this stuff. And I'm here to play nice. If you want to know who I got it from, PM me. If not, then you say your story and I'll stick with mine.

If you want to attempt to retain control of all lineage to this show, have fun. I don't play petty bullshit. It's just music. And when I seed stuff it's the good shit. The real shit.

[paddington]

Spider_Web, you missed the bazillion post thread about this show and the subsequent bullshit that went on with a public payoff for a trade of a tape that was subsequently chewed up... it was a huge debacle and I promise you it's not worth your time.


Cool......

.......so what lineage do you have for Led Zeppelin 2/28/75 Baton Rouge?

:rolleyes: :yawn: I wondered how this simple thread had turned into two pages... This guy obviously didn't read the other 700 page thread and was just asking the question... and you called him down like a dog or something.

What is it with you and this show? Does all that negative karma have to reinfect TTD now?

[Spider_Web]

Spider_Web, you missed the bazillion post thread about this show and the subsequent bullshit that went on with a public payoff for a trade of a tape that was subsequently chewed up... it was a huge debacle and I promise you it's not worth your time.

Does all that negative karma have to reinfect TTD now?

James: you are right, I missed it. I hate negative crap as well. I never taped a show in the 70's, and the folks that did were pioneers. I taped my first show in the 80's, and got addicted quick. 200+ masters on Sony D3, D6, and DAT with mics varying from Sony tie clips to Microtech Gefells, and I've sort of hung it up now. We all get older, and see priorities change. For me, it's now family and sharing/converting a pretty extensive archival collection that I worked hard to amass. I also lost my best friend and taping partner Matthew Pickett (RIP Buddy!) in the Warwick nightclub fire, he was taping Great White near the stage and didn't make it out. Puts things in persepective.

Anyway, if anybody including Freezer is interested in who I have dealt with over the last 20 years in regards to my Led Zep collection, PM me. I don't claim to have "the best"; but my collection is legit as far and lineage and I do have some good shit. I've traded with most all the big collectors over the years from Japan, Europe and the States, some of the people have written the Zep fanzines, written books, etc....

I don't bullshit and I don't lie.

BTW: Thanks for the Coverdale/Page Osaka DVD, nice job!

[freezer]

Jameskg, :nono:

I called nobody down like a dog. I asked some questions in a civil manner and got civil answers.

I saw where this could go in the first posting.

The first post in this thread stated the opinion that unknown generational recordings should be banned...

Now I asked a question about lineage on one show, just one specific show......because its the one singular solitary show I am positive that circulates with false lineage.

Jameskg, even you know LZ 2/28/75 is circulating with bogus lineage....and only available as "generation -UNKNOWN". And that is the truth....and that is NO bullshit.



Does all that negative karma have to reinfect TTD now?

No, of course not, but do we want to infect the trade pool with false lineage?

Jameskg, you and I will just have to disagree on this one. If the lineage is BS, I call BS. And since I taped the show and know what gen was 'given' out way back then, I am the only person who knows the correct lineage.

And look at the reply I got.....the lineage quoted is totally incorrect....and you know that, jameskg.

So do we ban Spider_Web's version of Led Zeppelin 2/28/75 or not?

The lineage on his version can't be proven nor verified.

The taper says his lineage is incorrect....Is his version still fair game -- even though technically it is sourced from an audio cassette of "unknown generation"?


Maybe that's why TTD's rules insist on no cd-r rips of silver bootlegs.


For all we know, Spider_Web's version of 2/28/75 might just be nothing more than a tape of one of the bootlegs. It certainly cannot be verified as anything more than just "unknown generation".


There is a concentrated effort here at TTD not to pollute the trade pool. That's where I thought this discussion was headed. Instead you ask about negative karma? Tch, tch... Lets just agree to disagree, jameskg, OK?









Anyway, if anybody including Freezer is interested in who I have dealt with over the last 20 years in regards to my Led Zep collection, PM me. I don't claim to have "the best"; but my collection is legit as far and lineage and...., etc....

I don't bullshit and I don't lie.


I did not say you lied, didn't even allude to that hypothesis.

I said were given incorrect information. How you wish to deal with the correct information in absolutely tantamount to your original opinion that unknown generation audio tapes be banned.



Spider_Web, you are correct that I did circulate that recording YEARS ago, but for you to assume that you got if from the person I gave that copy to is where you are incorrect....and your lineage is still wrong....PM me and we'll discuss this.


Yes, I have the master, and as well I should; I recorded it. And it's NEVER been out of my hands.

Oh, yes.....You want to discuss this show in private, I would love to know who passed on that lineage to you. Please PM me and let me and let me know about your version of LZ 2/28/75........




Well, then you are calling some serious Led Zep collectors liars.

No, you, my friend, look at this in a different fashion than I do.....I see some "serious Led Zep collectors" as infecting the trade pool by spreading false lineage, and I'm trying to set it straight about only this one particular show.

Let's not call your friends a pack of liars, nobody needs to go there, but, hey let's see if maybe they'd like someone to correct their mistake.

[paddington]

I like it when you are civil.

Of course, you are correct. I just don't think it's Spider_Web's fault. As far as posting the show, I thnk it's safe to say that no one will ever believe any lineage posted for that recording and he should just provide the linage given and state that "this is the lineage I was given with the recording" and leave it at that.

It is a great recording, just like STL's Blueberry Hill tape, which he posted and really had no idea what the lineage was for sure. I'm still glad he posted it because it sounds great. While I'd love them to all be 100% accurate, that's just a pipe dream when it comes to Zep tapes, isn't it?

[Spider_Web]

I have no desire to seed my 2/28. It's a no win situation. If I do, Freezer will cry bloody murder and say my generation is false.

We will never know if he truly never circulated 1st gen copies, or if he is just saying that now. I think he's full of shit.

He's not the first person to claim that they "never used their master" or "made multiple dubs" or "purposely sabotaged" a show. Easy to say now. And because he taped the show, no one will ever know what he really did. A guy who taped some Black Crowes 1996 shows on analog tried this with me when I torrented his versions on Etree. He knows I have DAT dubs from his master. For 10 years that was what I had. But becuase he is such a controlling person now, he screams to the community that he "told" me 10 years ago it was from the master but he really used a 1st gen for my DAT, a safety copy from the master. All basically becuase I torrented it.

Pretty sad. If you need a tape to make you feel important, you've missed the boat.

Plus if the master still exists, I'd just as soon wait for Freezer to circulate a version culled from his analog masters. If he is so concerned with other versions, why doesn't he make all other versions obsolete and circulate his master?

The real question is that. Why not Freezer? Is your whoobie that important? It's just a tape. This is a place to share, not hoard.

Thanks to Freezer for being visionary enough to tape and achive good sound back in the 70's.

No thanks to Freezer for playing games. I'm getting to old for this shit.

Maybe a SBD of 2/28 will surface. Problem solved!

In the meantime, I'll listen to my 1st gen 2/28 (which Freezer will claim is an unknown gen) - it's pretty damn good. And if you have been collecting/taping/trading for 20 years, you can tell if a tape sounds like a 1st gen. Mine sure does. But in the end, it's one friggin' show!

A few people have PM'd me saying, "that was an interesting thread you started, too bad Freezer jumped in, before you know it, the thread will be off topic and all about him". Boy, were you folks right! LOL

[freezer]

http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=122253&page=0#startcomments

C'mon Spider.....you neglected to say that you reneged on your offer to discuss this in private. You offered to name your source, but you went back on your word....

What's the deal?

Why would you NOT want to tell me who passed on the bogus lineage on to you, especially since you repeatedly offered as much in public in this thread.

Let's set your friend straight. You don't want to pollute the trade pool, hmmmm? Well, then, you need to tell the truth....



C'mon, you also seem like a decent fellow, don't you want to step up and honor your words....if you truly believe that the trading pool should not be polluted, then you'll admit in this public thread that you had incorrect lineage on 2/28/75 and you are now aware of the only correct lineage.

Step up and act a man, go on and admit what you know to be the truth: your lineage on 2/28/75 was incorrect and you know now that the only correct lineage is "unknown generation".


If you want, I'll even help you correct your friend.

You don't want him polluting the trade pool.....as he did to you. He's gonna thank you for setting him straight. You would want him to tell you, wouldn't you?

Step up. Go on and be a man and tell the truth......

:wave:

[Spider_Web]

We have been discussing it in private, you won't leave me alone! LOL! I have deemed it pointless to name people to you, regardless of the name you will say that you never gave the said person the tape.

You don't seem like someone who is on the same page as I. All you care about is protecting a recording you made. If you really wanted to hoard it, you should have never let it out in the first place.

You like hoarding and protecting a music recording.

I like sharing.

[freezer]

Why won't you circulate a torrent from your master? I'll lay 100-1 odds that you will not answer this simple question.

You lose.....I already sent you a private message with that answer.

You first, pal. You want answers, you need to answer a question yourself.

You offered to tell in private where you got this bogus low gen 2/28/75 show from, but when I PM'ed you.....you reneged on your word.

You want an answer, you need to answer that question first.

Maybe I'll say the odds of you owning up ate way greater than 100-1.....

Let's see you stand up like a man first, and honor your word.

You will honor your word before any demanding answers, right, Spider_Web?





I like sharing.

Then go ahead and share the information you ALREADY offered to share. What's stopping you?????





You like hoarding and protecting a music recording.

Now this is the stupidest comeback I've ever seen..... How in the hell am I hoarding a recording you already claim to have?

You intend on polluting the gene pool too?

Seriously, you really didn't think that comeback through before you hit send?

How am I hoarding something you claim to have? And if you are intent on claiming a 1G>DAT>DAT....even though you know the lineage to be bogus, how am I hoarding something you claim is "low-gen"....


Are you serious?

[freezer]

I have deemed it pointless to name people to you, regardless of the name you will say that you never gave the said person the tape.

This is more deep deep and obvious Bull Shit....Come up with a correct name and I'll tell the truth....


Why won't you tell the truth, Spider?

[Spider_Web]

You want all to believe your bullshit. Hoard your master. My copy is good enough. You are everything that's wrong with sharing music. You started this whole thing. I'm ending it. I'm done.

[freezer]

You want all to believe your bullshit. Hoard your master. My copy is good enough. You are everything that's wrong with sharing music. You started this whole thing. I'm ending it. I'm done.

Can you end it by telling the truth?

I know it might be tough, but you can do it.

That's a great start.

[U2Lynne]

Guys, cool it, or rather take it to PMs. This is NOT a thread about hoarding shows or about the lineage of a particular show. Read the first post in the thread and get back on topic, please.

[freezer]

Guys, cool it, or rather take it to PMs. This is NOT a thread about hoarding shows or about the lineage of a particular show. Read the first post in the thread and get back on topic, please.

Lynne, I was on topic the entire time.

This thread is about keeping the trade pool clean, that what we were talking about.

If someone suggest that all recordings with "Unknown analog lineage" be banned, then it's important to know that many older recording do not have correct lineage.

I pointed one out, the only one I know positively about.

Re-read the thread....we were entirely on topic.

How can someone post any version of that particular LZ show without giving the ONLY correct lineage in circulation......"UNKNOWN GENERATION". Otherwise the lineage is bogus, fake, fraudulent....and that is the same as "Unknown analog lineage" -- now isn't it?

That ties is perfectly with the first post in this thread.

Now, if you don't want to open that can of worms---that someone would purposefully falsify lineage in order to get a show posted on a torrent site that adheres to that sort of strict rules.

But that also falls in line with the topic.

But, hey, you and I both know that a cdr copy of a boot of that 2/28/75 Led Zep show was posted here and was up for a few days before being pulled....and there's still a torrent of one of the boots of 2/28/75 available at DaD. (Oh, but there couldn't be, because someone just accused me of hoarding that show.....while he's listening to that same tape. Amazing, ain't it?)

Well, I'll be good Ms Lynne, but for the life of me, I thought I was on topic the entire time......




_________________________________________________________

http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=122253&page=0#startcomments

[theface07]

I have more of an issue with people on DIME who grab a recording within a day, screw with it on their computer, and reseed as THEIR remastered version. That's about them wanting glorification, not the music.

How do you know the purpose and intent of anyone who remasters a recording? As far as I know, people remaster recordings in an attempt to make them sound better! If you don't think the remaster is better than don't download it. There's no need to go on a tirade trying to bad remasters like a whiny little girl who just got here lollypop taken from her. Stop complaining about free music. Try "listening" to the recordings you're condemning before you start spurting your mouth...

I've been taping and trading for over 20 years, I've taped over 200 shows, have over 1000 DAT tapes, and over 3000 analog tapes. (Yes, I've been obsessed with the live music experience for most of my life - and thank god my wife puts up with an attic full of tape).

Who did you say is looking for glorification? Enough said...

[TheEnforcer3]

He's just expressing his opinion and he's entitled to do that. The business in PM's between him and Freezer are none of our concern unless they choose to make it ours. If Freezer says that he never circulated a 1st Gen then I tend to believe him, after all he is the taper and would know better than anyone else. It's a definite possibility that Spider was lied to. We all know the Zep community can be seedy at times :wtf:

Chas

[Spider_Web]

He's just expressing his opinion and he's entitled to do that. The business in PM's between him and Freezer are none of our concern unless they choose to make it ours. If Freezer says that he never circulated a 1st Gen then I tend to believe him, after all he is the taper and would know better than anyone else. It's a definite possibility that Spider was lied to. We all know the Zep community can be seedy at times :wtf:

Chas

Enforcer: yes, he is the taper, and the Taper can say what ever he wants and it's tough to disprove. Although I've never taped Zeppelin, I taped many acts in the 80's and early 90's on a Sony WM-D6C analog deck. I have at one point or another traded most of of masters out to people when I was heavily into mail trading. Now, if someone were to torrent a show I taped saying it was a 1st gen, I could easily go batty and say that I never dubbed anything from my masters and that the lineage is false If I chose. No matter what the person said, some people would believe me. It's all a game to Freezer, and becuase he taped some classic shows back in the day, he thinks he's entitled to something. Power.

It's an easy out for him. He realizes that people want Zep shows from the master sources, and he's got one. So why not say "I've never yada yada yada..." It makes him (in his mind) look all that more important. He has already admitted that he did make a 1st gen for at least one person, but he says the person is now dead. How convenient. And who's to say that people didn't get a copy from that guy?

There is NO WAY he can prove that all copies in circulation are "generation unknown". There is NO WAY he can prove anything. But, there is NO WAY I can prove anything either.

From this guy's track record and his thirst for control over a tape, I don't see how anyone can believe him.

Who really cares anyway? I'm upset that I ever ran into this guy. If he were helpful, that would be great. He's not.

Some people may worship him becuase he hit a record button while Led Zep was playing a live gig. I'm not one of them.

Maybe one day he will grow a pair and get the best possible version out there from his master. That's the real way to get some appreciation. Share.

[freezer]

Enforcer: yes, he is the taper, and the Taper can say what ever he wants and it's tough to disprove. Although I've never taped Zeppelin, I taped many acts in the 80's and early 90's on a Sony WM-D6C analog deck. I have at one point or another traded most of of masters out to people when I was heavily into mail trading. Now, if someone were to torrent a show I taped saying it was a 1st gen, I could easily go batty and say that I never dubbed anything from my masters and that the lineage is false If I chose. No matter what the person said, some people would believe me. It's all a game to Freezer, and becuase he taped some classic shows back in the day, he thinks he's entitled to something. Power.

Spider_ ,
You rationalize very well for someone who’s just been caught lying.

Let’s talk POWER, ok?

What do you call the rants and tirades you’ve done at DaD trying to MAKE people trade and listen to music the way YOU demand?

http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=122253&viewcomm=1469310#comm1469310

You're on a POWER TRIP, Spider_Web, and its obvious.

Its an easy out for you, Spider_Web. You are saying now.... "My friend told me that when I got it from him,,,,and ni, I won't tell you his name OR go back and tell him he was wrong." What a crock........

You are on a big-time POWER TRIP, Spidey.....




there is NO WAY he can prove that all copies in circulation are "generation unknown". There is NO WAY he can prove anything.

But I can prove it, and did in a PM, which is when Spider.Web went back on his word to give up the name of the person who told him he has a “1G>DAT>DAT” of 2/28/75. (I never gave out any 1G cassettes....wheich is what I've said all along.....and that's the truth....not Spider_Web's rationalization....)




His refusal to honor his word makes me suspicious that his entire collection is filled with FAKE, FALSE, and BOGUS lineages.

In any case, obviously, Spider- Web is as guilty of POLLUTING the trade pool as are the remasters he’s been whining about.




Maybe one day he will grow a pair and get the best possible version out there from his master. That's the real way to get some appreciation. Share.

Share the information you already promised to divulge in this thread, Spider….Go on and stand up like a man and grow some yourself.

Stop lying Spider_Web and tell the truth for a change.

[U2Lynne]

I do believe that this thread is NOT going to get back on topic, so I'm closing it. If someone wants to continue one of the original thoughts, please feel free to start a new thread and hopefully it will stay on topic. :cool:

[rspencer]

Party pooper. :mad: