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micovitch
2008-05-25, 06:46 PM
Someone recently said he/she had never seen any West, Bruce & Lang boots before the one posted here yesterday or today. I've got one that I got from the Pink Robert site, but all I know about it (from the info file) is listed below. The artwork suggests it was probably originally a silver CD. Is this an acceptable lineage, and if not, do you have any suggestions.

Lineage: sbd > Silver CD > ?? > flac (Pink Robert site)


WEST, BRUCE & LAING
More Live & Kickin'

Live outtakes from the projected Live & Kickin' double album,
plus backing tracks from the Why Dotcha album.

Excellent stereo soundboard

1. Play With Fire (21:38)
2. Sunshine Of Your Love (12:57)
3. Shake Ma Thing (3:09)
4. unknown song (2:50)
5. Polution Woman (3:40)

tracks 1-2: live, unknown location, 1973
tracks 3-5: backing tracks, 1972

Leslie West - guitar, Jack Bruce - bass, Corky Laing - drums

vittori
2008-07-11, 09:46 AM
I Need Help
Pleaseeeeee
Seeding this dvd
Guns N' Roses 1991-05-16 The Secret Gig (NTSC)
please man
pleaseeeeeeee

Dizcipline
2008-07-25, 08:09 AM
Hi folks,

i have a live dvd and even after reading posts im not sure whether it is allowed to be seeded here. The info is marginal but it is a classic pfunk concert and the info is all i have. Could u have a look?
Thx,
Diz

PRO SHOT
NTSC
Source: Multi gen VHS
Quality: VG

Parliament Funkadliec
Landover, MD
2/1/1979
The Motor Booty Tour DISC 2

Setlist:
....

U2Lynne
2008-07-25, 10:41 AM
Hi folks,

i have a live dvd and even after reading posts im not sure whether it is allowed to be seeded here. The info is marginal but it is a classic pfunk concert and the info is all i have. Could u have a look?
Thx,
Diz

....
Hey Diz,

You should probably sent a PM to the Video Torrent Mods:
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/images/buttonsttd/sendpm.gif (http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/private.php?do=newpm&u=4993) saltman (http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/member.php?u=4993) - Jonathan
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/images/buttonsttd/sendpm.gif (http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/private.php?do=newpm&u=14404) schmoe75 (http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/member.php?u=14404) - Joe

I think they will be able to help you with making sure all the Video requirements are taken care of when you write up the text file.

Paul56
2008-08-17, 11:44 AM
Are we to assume that all bootlegs with or without a company name are all produced as Silvers?

U2Lynne
2008-08-17, 11:54 AM
Are we to assume that all bootlegs with or without a company name are all produced as Silvers?
Hmm, well, no. There are some recent bootlegs that are simply CD-Rs. There is a name for that, and it escapes me at the moment. But, they are simply mass made as CD-Rs, but come with artwork and a booklet.

rspencer
2008-08-17, 12:58 PM
There is a name for that, and it escapes me at the moment.

I believe "weaselly crap" may be the words you're looking for. :)

The CD-R bootlegs started back in the 1990s. There are evn a few CD-R only "labels." Can't hink of any by name at the moment, but I remember at least one used to run big ads in the back of Goldmine.

Paul56
2008-08-17, 06:28 PM
Hmm, well, no. There are some recent bootlegs that are simply CD-Rs. There is a name for that, and it escapes me at the moment. But, they are simply mass made as CD-Rs, but come with artwork and a booklet.

I have a John Lennon bootleg and the publisher is Green Grape, how do I know if it was produced as a Silver? Is there some list that the mods use to decide? or a place to confirm lineage? www.bootlegzone offers only the tracks and the cover.

Thanks, Paul

U2Lynne
2008-08-17, 07:15 PM
I have a John Lennon bootleg and the publisher is Green Grape, how do I know if it was produced as a Silver? Is there some list that the mods use to decide? or a place to confirm lineage? www.bootlegzone (http://www.bootlegzone) offers only the tracks and the cover.

Thanks, Paul
No, I wish we had some super-duper bootleg file that would answer all our questions. Unfortunately, we just have to use our awesome Google skills. :cool: However, my googling led me to this site (http://misitio.fibertel.com.ar/estebanfbootlegs/Product23784.shtml) where they list the Green Grape show as coming from a "bootleg CD" as compared to other shows coming from Silver CD. My mad google skills are letting me down here cuz I'm not getting any good hits when googling this - green grapes seems to be a term associated more with wine than with bootlegs! Anyway, if you have something that has artwork but is a CD, it could very well be a Bootleg CD (funnily enough, that was the term eluding me this morning, not "weaselly crap" :) ).

glens
2008-08-26, 03:08 AM
"weaselly crap" is still a good phrase, though...... :lol:

Wizardry007
2008-11-10, 08:15 AM
Hi,
I downloaded a show years and years ago, and was thinking about sharing it here, but I have a few problems with the linage.

I know it's from an FM broadcast, and I've looked at all the other people who have the show as well on etree, and none of them can give an exact linage. I never received it on CDR but it must have been at some point.
Sooo I came up with this:
FM SBD > CDR(x) > Unknown transfer > flac

will it do, or should I just keep the boot to myself ?

I have of course checked the quality and there is no diginoise or gaps on the tracks..

thanks :)

U2Lynne
2008-11-10, 10:15 AM
Hi,
I downloaded a show years and years ago, and was thinking about sharing it here, but I have a few problems with the linage.

I know it's from an FM broadcast, and I've looked at all the other people who have the show as well on etree, and none of them can give an exact linage. I never received it on CDR but it must have been at some point.
Sooo I came up with this:
FM SBD > CDR(x) > Unknown transfer > flac

will it do, or should I just keep the boot to myself ?

I have of course checked the quality and there is no diginoise or gaps on the tracks..

thanks :)
For older shows that is perfectly acceptable lineage especially since you did some homework and looked around. Go for it! :thumbsup

Wizardry007
2008-11-10, 11:33 AM
For older shows that is perfectly acceptable lineage especially since you did some homework and looked around. Go for it! :thumbsup

Thanks for the quick response :thumbsup

martin boccuto
2008-11-16, 06:33 AM
i uploaded a show but my it won't seed. says failure-too many connections. this does not sound right. help!!!

U2Lynne
2008-11-16, 11:10 AM
i uploaded a show but my it won't seed. says failure-too many connections. this does not sound right. help!!!
I suspect that you did not download the torrent file from the thread and thus you were trying to seed with a non-personalized torrent file and getting a tracker error.

(You really should start a thread for problems since this thread is aimed towards lineage issues for seeders. Also, your torrent threads were pulled, which will also give a tracker error. You really need to read over our Audio Seeding Policy and make sure your seeds conform to the rules we have set up.)

dukenukem555
2009-03-17, 08:42 PM
Hi!

There is a dead torrent: http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=36090&highlight=Dire+Straits+cologne

Somebody ask for a reseed (http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=70977)

I got that show as well, but it looks like I got this from a different source (I dunno where I downloaded it).

The infofile I got is not that good:

DIRE STRAITS

ROCKPALAST 1979

[...]tracklist[...]

Studio-L. Cologne, Germany, 16th February 1979.

Additional comments:
This soundboard recording has absolute amazing sound!

Original Bootleg
EAC to WAVE, to FLAC, to U.


Is it still ok if I upload it because I dont have any information about "original bootleg"?

U2Lynne
2009-03-17, 10:49 PM
It looks to me like it is a different source, so it isn't exactly the same as the original which is why the source information is not as complete. You can probably do a google search to see if you can find out more information on the original bootleg that your files are from.

dukenukem555
2009-03-18, 07:51 AM
It looks to me like it is a different source, so it isn't exactly the same as the original which is why the source information is not as complete. You can probably do a google search to see if you can find out more information on the original bootleg that your files are from.

I already did. I found more than one tracklist for bootlegs with the same name as mine, but no tracklist fits. The only thing which really fits (by the setlist) is a video. Maybe it is better to ask a real dire straits pro to upload the best version ;)

TargetMassAppeal
2009-03-18, 01:29 PM
not sure if this is the right thread for this question...
i've searched the FAQ and wasn't able to come up w/ a solution to my dilemma.

after attempting this a.m. to get back on some shows i've uploaded for seeding purposes, my Bit Torrent client is showing my status at 0% and begins DL'ing two of the shows all over again as if i don't already have them:

http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=70331
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=70693


yet this one reloaded and is seeding just fine:
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=70597

i've done nothing to alter any of these shows' particular folders though i have deleted other files/folders within the master folder where i keep all the music on my harddrive (hope that makes sense), not sure if that makes a difference.

this is also occurring for shows that i've previously DL'd but had been seeding for the past couple of weeks... haven't relocated any of the folders in question.

sorry if this is a redundant topic, couldn't find anything specific to this matter... thanks so much.

scott

U2Lynne
2009-03-18, 02:00 PM
Hey Scott, take a look at this faq item, it may help you - I'm trying to seed my show but I keep showing up as a leecher, not a seeder. Help! (http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/faq.php?faq=bittorrent#faq_wrong_folder)

TargetMassAppeal
2009-03-18, 02:01 PM
jumped the gun on this one fellas/ladies... seems the torrents were being defaulted to open in a folder different than their origin...

:rolleyes:

superhokie
2009-03-19, 01:33 PM
Need to get a lineage check on the following:

Dire Straits - ROCKPALAST '79
02/16/79
WDR TV Studio

MSR > FM Broadcast

Lineage: Original Silver->EAC->SHN(Me)=>SHN(You)


01 Introduction
02 Down To The Waterline
03 Six Blade Knife
04 One Upon A Time In The West
05 Lady Writer
06 Single Handed Sailor
07 Water Of Love
08 In The Gallery
09 Follow Me Home
10 News
11 What's The Matter Baby ?
12 Lions
13 Sultans Of Swing
14 Wild West End
15 Where Do You Think You're Going ?
16 Eastbound Train

Is that acceptable to post at TTD?

Thanks,

superhokie

U2Lynne
2009-03-19, 01:44 PM
It looks fine to me. Did you do the Silver > EAC ? If so, it's a good idea to include the eac log with the files. Also, make sure you make/post shntool st5s, not standard md5s with the show.

superhokie
2009-03-19, 01:49 PM
It looks fine to me. Did you do the Silver > EAC ? If so, it's a good idea to include the eac log with the files. Also, make sure you make/post shntool st5s, not standard md5s with the show.

OK, thanks!

plumb
2009-04-17, 05:43 PM
I have a dvd with the lineage:

TV broadcast(1994.)>VHS>AverMedia Volar HX (uncompressed .avi file)>TMGENC 3.0 xpress(VOB files)>TMPGENC DVD AUTHOR (chaptering)>YOU

Am I correct in assuming that I can't seed it here due to the .avi.

I don't see that format listed in the FAQ.

plumb
2009-04-17, 06:26 PM
I also have an audio show that has the lineage:

Master>Cass>DAT>CDR>EAC>TLH>FLAC

Is this not acceptable due to the Cass even though there is no master>dat in out there?

Just trying to pull up out of uberleech now that I've portforwarded and I remembering back when I had a show pulled even though it had a shin id from etree and was and was the best available copy out there.

rspencer
2009-04-17, 08:37 PM
I also have an audio show that has the lineage:

Master>Cass>DAT>CDR>EAC>TLH>FLAC

Is this not acceptable due to the Cass even though there is no master>dat in out there?

Just trying to pull up out of uberleech now that I've portforwarded and I remembering back when I had a show pulled even though it had a shin id from etree and was and was the best available copy out there.

What was the master (cassette/reels or DAT, analog versus digital)?

You'll need any generational info possible for the cassette/DAT/CDR stages.

While there is no explicit rule concerning digital > analog > digital, obviously that would best be avoided if possible. If the master was DAT, transferred to a cassette copy, then transferred again to DAT and then to CDR...well, that's not preferable, but there are many shows that have no closer source digitally.

schmoe75
2009-04-17, 09:28 PM
Am I correct in assuming that I can't seed it here due to the .avi.
As long as you haven't changed the format (PAL to NTSC, NTSC to PAL), that is seedable and the preferred capture/encoding method for VHS/Hi8/MiniDV.

plumb
2009-04-18, 03:29 AM
The audio show in question's master is from '73 so it's analog for sure. I don't know about the format though (reel size, speed or whatever). I'm a'gonna upload it since it's a great show with great sound and it seems to meet the standard. Thanks for the clarification on both counts.

jabulon
2009-04-19, 05:36 AM
If a show is listed on dbetree (with lineage, setlists etc), does that automatically means that show meets the TTD requirements for uploading.

e.g. Lineage: FM (2005 rebroadcast) => Hifi VCR => PC => CD Wave (track splits) => flac level 6 (TLH) will do?

superhokie
2009-04-19, 08:35 AM
Hi there...

I have a lineage question about the following SBD I received in trade in FLAC format:

-------------------------------------------
Jeff Beck, Carlos Santana & Steve Lukather
Venue: Prince Hotel, Karuizawa, Japan
Date: 1 Jun 1986
Taper: Unknown
Source: Soundboard
Lineage: ProDVD > unknown audio transfer to CD > EAC > FLAC Level 8 > you
Sound Quality: A-/A

Disc 1
1 Primera Invasion
2 Black Magic Woman
3 Open Invitation
4 Starcycle
5 Cause We’ve Ended As Lovers
6 Wild Thing
7 Freeway Jam
8 Going Down
9 Escape

Disc 2
1 Superboogie
2 Lotus Blues
3 People Get Ready
4 Johnny B. Goode
5 Love Will
6 Ambitious
7 Goodbye Pork-Pie-Hat
8 Stop, Look And Listen
9 Blue Wind

Steve Lukather - Guitars
Carlos Santana - Guitars
Jeff Beck - Guitars
Beck's band:
Jan Hammer - Keyboards
Simon Phillips - Drums
Jimmy Hall Vocals & Sax
Doug Wimbish - Bass
Santana's band:
George Miles - Vocals
Chester Thompson - Keyboards
Armando Peraza - Congas
Orestes Vilato - Timbales
Tom Coster - Keyboards
Graham Lear - Drums
Paul Rekow - Percussion
---------------------------

I noticed there is a ProDVD torrent (not seeded) here at TTD, but it is only partial whereas this audio source is the complete show.

The only mysterious part of the lineage is how the audio was extracted from prodvd.

Is this an acceptable SBD audio upload?

thanks,

Hokie

U2Lynne
2009-04-19, 11:33 AM
If a show is listed on dbetree (with lineage, setlists etc), does that automatically means that show meets the TTD requirements for uploading.

e.g. Lineage: FM (2005 rebroadcast) => Hifi VCR => PC => CD Wave (track splits) => flac level 6 (TLH) will do?
Not necessarily, no. For instance, someone could like a Minidisc recording over there from 2008 and it wouldn't be allowed here. They could list a Silver CD > CDR > whatever show and it wouldn't be allowed.

The one you listed looks like it should be fine.

Hi there...

I have a lineage question about the following SBD I received in trade in FLAC format:

-------------------------------------------
Jeff Beck, Carlos Santana & Steve Lukather
Venue: Prince Hotel, Karuizawa, Japan
Date: 1 Jun 1986
Taper: Unknown
Source: Soundboard
Lineage: ProDVD > unknown audio transfer to CD > EAC > FLAC Level 8 > you
Sound Quality: A-/A

Disc 1
1 Primera Invasion
2 Black Magic Woman
3 Open Invitation
4 Starcycle
5 Cause Weve Ended As Lovers
6 Wild Thing
7 Freeway Jam
8 Going Down
9 Escape

Disc 2
1 Superboogie
2 Lotus Blues
3 People Get Ready
4 Johnny B. Goode
5 Love Will
6 Ambitious
7 Goodbye Pork-Pie-Hat
8 Stop, Look And Listen
9 Blue Wind

Steve Lukather - Guitars
Carlos Santana - Guitars
Jeff Beck - Guitars
Beck's band:
Jan Hammer - Keyboards
Simon Phillips - Drums
Jimmy Hall Vocals & Sax
Doug Wimbish - Bass
Santana's band:
George Miles - Vocals
Chester Thompson - Keyboards
Armando Peraza - Congas
Orestes Vilato - Timbales
Tom Coster - Keyboards
Graham Lear - Drums
Paul Rekow - Percussion
---------------------------

I noticed there is a ProDVD torrent (not seeded) here at TTD, but it is only partial whereas this audio source is the complete show.

The only mysterious part of the lineage is how the audio was extracted from prodvd.

Is this an acceptable SBD audio upload?

thanks,

Hokie
ProDVD as in off the TV? It really depends on the audio from the DVD. If the audio was AC3, which is lossy, then no. If the audio was LPCM, and it wasn't a commericially released DVD, then it should be OK.

superhokie
2009-04-19, 12:54 PM
ProDVD as in off the TV? It really depends on the audio from the DVD. If the audio was AC3, which is lossy, then no. If the audio was LPCM, and it wasn't a commericially released DVD, then it should be OK.

I'm pretty sure it was taken from a TV broadcast. Unfortunately I do not know if it was AC3 or LPCM.

Here's a spectral analysis....

http://www.hockey-rocker.com/images/spectral.bmp

Does that look lossy?

U2Lynne
2009-04-19, 01:05 PM
Does that look lossy?
To me, the non-expert on lossy/lossless? It looks just fine. :D However, I do know that when looking at SA, it is best to grab a 2 second capture to look at it and see if it's blocky. You may want to do an FA also.

Five
2009-04-19, 11:59 PM
^yeah looks like it was straight from the broadcast, lossless

superhokie
2009-04-20, 07:23 AM
^yeah looks like it was straight from the broadcast, lossless

Thanks for the info, appreciate the help...I will post this show sometime this week. I'll use the lineage that is in my first post as long as you guys are okay with that:

Lineage: ProDVD > unknown audio transfer to CD > EAC > FLAC Level 8 > you

.......thanks again

jabulon
2009-04-21, 11:28 AM
I've got a show here with an incomplete or inaccurate setlist. The orginal taper and seeder I got it from didn't know all the 17 songs. He didn't know 4 songs (but I do or think I do) and named some others a bit different. Now I've read your faq and it says:

Any items missing this information may be deleted from our tracker.

How can I prevent my upload from being pulled for this reason. Is it just as simple as to give the correct setlist in the thread and in my info file, while leaving the rest of the original files unchanged of course.

U2Lynne
2009-04-21, 12:04 PM
That line is referring to if you omit the text file. Having an incomplete setlist is OK. I usually see users list it like:

1 (unknown)
2 Elevation
3 (unknown)

Or just put a blank. Putting up a setlist like that usually encourages the users to fill in the blanks and hopefully put together a setlist for you.

rspencer
2009-04-21, 05:21 PM
If you can supply the missing songs, do so. Edit the text file, but "save as" revised-info.txt or such. That way you keep all the original files, but also supply the new additional info.

jabulon
2009-04-22, 06:15 AM
Or just put a blank. Putting up a setlist like that usually encourages the users to fill in the blanks and hopefully put together a setlist for you.
If you can supply the missing songs, do so. Edit the text file, but "save as" revised-info.txt or such. That way you keep all the original files, but also supply the new additional info.

:thumbsup Thanks for your replies.

nimble
2009-08-09, 01:36 AM
Just downloaded Phish at Shoreline Ca from Demonoid and never seeded a show before so how does the lineage go with this. All the text file included says is SBD/FLAC.

paddington
2009-08-09, 01:38 AM
Just downloaded Phish at Shoreline Ca from Demonoid and never seeded a show before so how does the lineage go with this. All the text file included says is SBD/FLAC.

have a look at the faq / rules for seeding.. links in my sig.

rspencer
2009-08-09, 01:59 AM
A Phish soundboard is either an officially sold show, or if it was one of the freebies like Hampton, it was mp3 originally, as far as I know.

nimble
2009-08-09, 11:48 AM
A Phish soundboard is either an officially sold show, or if it was one of the freebies like Hampton, it was mp3 originally, as far as I know.
Demonoid did have it as both mp3 and flac but wonder which was first.
i could check with Cool Edit. With Phish, how do you know if it's official or not.

rspencer
2009-08-09, 04:59 PM
A Phish soundboard is either an officially sold show, or if it was one of the freebies like Hampton, it was mp3 originally, as far as I know.
Demonoid did have it as both mp3 and flac but wonder which was first.
i could check with Cool Edit. With Phish, how do you know if it's official or not.

It's official. They sell their board recordings, so it's have to be. Nobody else allowed to punch into the board. It's at livephish.com.

http://www.livephish.com/live-music/0,471,136/Phish-mp3-flac-download-8-5-2009-Shoreline-Amphitheatre--Mountain-View-CA.html

uni-fi
2009-08-10, 03:29 PM
So I recently came across a great two nights of Halloween 96 soundboard of Gov't Mule. While I will post the lineage here, and it is in flac, the actual size of the file makes it suspect to me, and I would rather run it through here first to see what your thoughts are...


Gov't Mule
Beacon Theatre
New York, NY
1996-10-30


SBD>DAT>FLAC


Notes that came with the FLAC disc(these notes were contained on the original downloads):


All the 96 recordings are from Warrens Masters and were given to me via Mike Hassell


and


Gov't Mule
Beacon Theatre
New York, NY
1996-10-31


Source: SBD DAT>CDR>EAC (secure mode)Wav>Flac


Notes that came with the FLAC disc(these notes were contained on the original downloads):


All the 96 recordings are from Warrens Masters and were given to me via Mike Hassell


respectively, the 10-30-96 show is only 218Mb, and the 10-31-96 is 232Mb...but both are in flac format

Any thoughts before I post would be greatly appreciated.

rspencer
2009-08-10, 04:06 PM
How long are the shows? What's the freq response? Are they in mono? Lots of things can allow for deeper compression.

uni-fi
2009-08-10, 08:28 PM
the 10-30-96 show has a total runtime of 37:11

the 10-31-96 show has a total runtime of 39:11

I don't want to assume anything about the audio itself, so if you know of an easy way to find out if they are mono or stereo, I am all ears. I have looked for a gspot style informational tool for audio, but I came up empty handed. I use WMP for my flac files, but it doesn't give me any information other than track times.

saltman
2009-08-10, 08:31 PM
try here.

http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4288

rspencer
2009-08-10, 11:34 PM
So I recently came across a great two nights of Halloween 96 soundboard of Gov't Mule. While I will post the lineage here, and it is in flac, the actual size of the file makes it suspect to me, and I would rather run it through here first to see what your thoughts are...

respectively, the 10-30-96 show is only 218Mb, and the 10-31-96 is 232Mb...but both are in flac format


the 10-30-96 show has a total runtime of 37:11

the 10-31-96 show has a total runtime of 39:11


That's reasonable for those running times. That's about your average opener set length, and most of the openers I've taped have been a bit over 200MB (210-245 or so).

nimble
2009-08-14, 08:04 PM
OK another little help required on correct lineage. I have a flac copy of the Genesis Zurich 77 show considered to be the best 77 show according to the Genesis Movement. Been looking for it for a while and found it on a bootleg site. It's downloaded and ready to go but the lineage just says
CD-R>EAC>FLAC.
It's Zurich Revisited version 2 with a soundboard/audience mix that has extra tracks after The Musical Box closing number. They are taken from other shows earlier on in the tour that weren't played at Zurich. It's definitely the one to have from 77 but I was just being carefull about posting it.
Thanks

U2Lynne
2009-08-14, 08:12 PM
OK another little help required on correct lineage. I have a flac copy of the Genesis Zurich 77 show considered to be the best 77 show according to the Genesis Movement. Been looking for it for a while and found it on a bootleg site. It's downloaded and ready to go but the lineage just says
CD-R>EAC>FLAC.
It's Zurich Revisited version 2 with a soundboard/audience mix that has extra tracks after The Musical Box closing number. They are taken from other shows earlier on in the tour that weren't played at Zurich. It's definitely the one to have from 77 but I was just being carefull about posting it.
Thanks
That is a pretty old show, so we are a little bit more lenient on lineage for them. If you have done a search and can't find a better source for this show (one with a defined source that is earlier gen), then it is OK to post it.

nimble
2009-08-14, 11:26 PM
Great thanks - about time I posted something!

billybaroo
2009-09-25, 03:49 PM
I posted this torrent http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=76212 then downloaded it but it doesn't seem to be seeding. suggestions?

U2Lynne
2009-09-25, 03:53 PM
I posted this torrent http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=76212 then downloaded it but it doesn't seem to be seeding. suggestions?
Take a look at this - I'm trying to seed my show but I keep showing up as a leecher, not a seeder. Help! (http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/faq.php?faq=bittorrent#faq_wrong_folder)

blurryeyes
2009-10-15, 08:30 PM
I got a Question.

When I download From this site The torrents wont seed for me, this is only a problem on this site, so does anyone know how to fix this?

U2Lynne
2009-10-15, 11:03 PM
I got a Question.

When I download From this site The torrents wont seed for me, this is only a problem on this site, so does anyone know how to fix this?

You are currently the only seeder on this show - Disturbed 2009-05-06 Peoria, IL (NTSC) (http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=74171) - so I'm not sure what you mean.

blurryeyes
2009-10-16, 03:33 AM
Well when I asked that It wasent seeding About an hour or less it started. so sorry for not telling you that it started.

stripeydave
2010-02-18, 12:32 PM
I have a lineage question. I pm'd a mod but haven't heard a reply yet. Forgive me for the duplication.

Regarding a 4 disc set of Gillian Welch early material, I posted a question in the lossy/not lossy thread here:http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=79940

It appears to be OK to torrent yet I have no known lineage other than I grabbed it from another site as FLACs. A friend sent me a link to some artwork which yielded a bit of info on the 4th disc, saying it was a handheld walkman recorder for that show.

How may I properly torrent this set of music which I believe will be happily received by the legions of fans here? It is thanks to one member getting me into that particular site that I was able to find this gem, and I'd like to pay it forward/back by sharing the fileset here first, then taking it to another popular site.

Thanks for reading!
Dave

Oops! Just got a reply from Mod JamesKG... says it's a no-go. Would it be OK to just seed the 4th disc with the limited info I do have, and a "caveat emptor" along with it?

Sorry for any trouble and thanks again. If it's still no good, I'll just put up some of my other masters to say thanks. Just trying to spread the love of Gil...

U2Lynne
2010-02-18, 11:43 PM
Oops! Just got a reply from Mod JamesKG... says it's a no-go. Would it be OK to just seed the 4th disc with the limited info I do have, and a "caveat emptor" along with it?

Sorry for any trouble and thanks again. If it's still no good, I'll just put up some of my other masters to say thanks. Just trying to spread the love of Gil...
If you already have James ear, you might as well ask him about that also since he is one of the mods who approves what goes up here.

stripeydave
2010-02-19, 11:39 AM
Thank you Lynne! Will do.

emanedur
2010-04-10, 06:41 PM
Hi I'm relatively new here and I want to start sharing my own shows,most that were acquired through snail trade,and are pre 2000.How would I go about noting the lineage for these if it's unavailable.If it's a pro shot that obviously been taped off the telly and then transferred to PC would it go something like this
Proshot>?>VHS> digital transfer to DVD
If Aud shot
Audshot>?>digital transfer to DVD
Obviously I'd be including all the bitrate,FPS,format etc but am I on the right track.If not what else do I need.
I always find this lineage thing a bit overwelming
Cheers
Mark

U2Lynne
2010-04-10, 08:44 PM
emandedur, have you looked at our Video Seeding Guide? It will probably answer a lot of questions for you.

emanedur
2010-04-10, 11:35 PM
Thanks Lynne.
This is what I came up with.

Artist::Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds
Location:Pink Pop Festival Langraaf
Date:1990-04-06
Setlist :
Black Betty
The Witness Song
I'm Gonna Kill That Woman
The Carny
The Mercy Seat
Deanna
The Ship Song
City of Refuge
From Her to Eternity

TV Proshot>Med Gen VHS>HD>Trade>HD>TMPGEnc 4
Audio Codec:AC3
Audio Bitrate:256 kbps
Video System:NTSC 29.97fps

Menu:Yes
Chapters:Yes

9a386a149d8740bce7f7f8aff86132ab *VIDEO_TS/VIDEO_TS.BUP
9a386a149d8740bce7f7f8aff86132ab *VIDEO_TS/VIDEO_TS.IFO
22ef67355998b449bd3ea3810ac21ef0 *VIDEO_TS/VTS_01_0.BUP
22ef67355998b449bd3ea3810ac21ef0 *VIDEO_TS/VTS_01_0.IFO
71af7f6344c9e49daf785a8b7d1d4bd0 *VIDEO_TS/VTS_01_0.VOB
79b286f7da1147b5b7e97bd7459b5aac *VIDEO_TS/VTS_01_1.VOB
a86c8d5e70cc2057559b396bcb2dbb8f *VIDEO_TS/VTS_01_2.VOB
32cc6210d160e9a3515f683fc36f2911 *VIDEO_TS/VTS_01_3.VOB
bd673cd716e7d13bb3b97d9ca428140f *VIDEO_TS/VTS_01_4.VOB

Received in trade,reauthored with menu and chapters.No re-encoding took place.
Does it look okay?If not what am I missing?
Cheers

U2Lynne
2010-04-11, 12:34 AM
emandedur, that is probably OK, however the best person to run it by is an VBT mod:

http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/images/buttonsttd/sendpm.gif (http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/private.php?do=newpm&u=4993) saltman (http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/member.php?u=4993) - Jonathan
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/images/buttonsttd/sendpm.gif (http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/private.php?do=newpm&u=14404) schmoe75 (http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/member.php?u=14404) - Joe

emanedur
2010-04-11, 01:27 AM
Cool.Will do.Fingers crossed.Thanks U2Lynne

Roger Daltrey
2010-05-12, 01:42 AM
I have some dvd's I received in a trade a few years back, was wanting to upload them but would like to get the lineage info correct. The only info I have is - Panasonic NV-DS65 w/Sony ECM-719

Also, what is the best way to rip these dvd's to my HD (i'm on a mac)?

U2Lynne
2010-05-12, 10:25 AM
I have some dvd's I received in a trade a few years back, was wanting to upload them but would like to get the lineage info correct. The only info I have is - Panasonic NV-DS65 w/Sony ECM-719

Also, what is the best way to rip these dvd's to my HD (i'm on a mac)?
You don't 'rip' them to your HD like you do an audio CD. You simply create a folder on your Mac for the show and then drag/drop the VIDEO_TS folder into it and it should copy over. Create an EXTRAS_TS folder in there also to put all the info files and md5 files, etc.

As for lineage, sometimes you can get more by googling and finding the show on other lists. Or, just by asking around. You may want to read our DVD Seeding Policy and Video Seeding Guide for more information.

Roger Daltrey
2010-05-12, 12:47 PM
You don't 'rip' them to your HD like you do an audio CD. You simply create a folder on your Mac for the show and then drag/drop the VIDEO_TS folder into it and it should copy over. Create an EXTRAS_TS folder in there also to put all the info files and md5 files, etc.

As for lineage, sometimes you can get more by googling and finding the show on other lists. Or, just by asking around. You may want to read our DVD Seeding Policy and Video Seeding Guide for more information.

Thanks for the reply, i'll see if I can find more info on the dvd.

One other question, I downloaded a dvd a while back, the only source info that came with it was -
Skystar2>HDD>Womble MPEG Wizard>TMPGEnc DVD Author

I burned this DVD a while back, and just copied the files back to a new folder on my HD. I'm thinking the lineage would be something like this -
TV Broadcast > Skystar2 > HDD > Womble MPEG Wizard > TMPGEnc DVD Author > DVD > HD

Thanks for the help!

jabulon
2010-05-14, 04:10 AM
Hi. I've got this authored (nerovision) trade dvd I would like to share, but this dvd (menu?) has some issues.

* According to GSpot the aspect ratio is 4:3 (LB), but when I put the dvd in my standalone player or play it on my pc with VLC, it is been displayed as 16:9. The result is that the picture is pressed together and a bit stretched out (wrong ratio). When I play it with VLC and change the aspect ratio from standard to 4:3 it is been displayed in the correct ratio, but when there is a song change (chapter points) it switches back to a 16:9.
* Video and audio are slightly out of sync.

My question is, if I give this dvd a new menu (with the correct ratio) and sync video and audio, will I still be able the seed it here, or would this be considered as re-encoding?

jabulon
2010-05-18, 02:25 AM
Hi. I've got this authored (nerovision) trade dvd I would like to share, but this dvd (menu?) has some issues.

* According to GSpot the aspect ratio is 4:3 (LB), but when I put the dvd in my standalone player or play it on my pc with VLC, it is been displayed as 16:9. The result is that the picture is pressed together and a bit stretched out (wrong ratio). When I play it with VLC and change the aspect ratio from standard to 4:3 it is been displayed in the correct ratio, but when there is a song change (chapter points) it switches back to a 16:9.
* Video and audio are slightly out of sync.

My question is, if I give this dvd a new menu (with the correct ratio) and sync video and audio, will I still be able the seed it here, or would this be considered as re-encoding?
:wave: .. is there any body out there?

AAR.oner
2010-05-19, 10:48 AM
Hi. I've got this authored (nerovision) trade dvd I would like to share, but this dvd (menu?) has some issues.

* According to GSpot the aspect ratio is 4:3 (LB), but when I put the dvd in my standalone player or play it on my pc with VLC, it is been displayed as 16:9. The result is that the picture is pressed together and a bit stretched out (wrong ratio). When I play it with VLC and change the aspect ratio from standard to 4:3 it is been displayed in the correct ratio, but when there is a song change (chapter points) it switches back to a 16:9.
* Video and audio are slightly out of sync.

My question is, if I give this dvd a new menu (with the correct ratio) and sync video and audio, will I still be able the seed it here, or would this be considered as re-encoding?
:wave: .. is there any body out there?

depends how you do it, and if the authoring prog you use automatically re-encodes

but yes, you can re-author without re-encoding...demux the vob's, re-sync vid/aud streams within yer authoring prog, and build new menus

jabulon
2010-05-19, 12:18 PM
:wave: .. is there any body out there?

depends how you do it, and if the authoring prog you use automatically re-encodes

but yes, you can re-author without re-encoding...demux the vob's, re-sync vid/aud streams within yer authoring prog, and build new menus

thanks for your answer.

jabulon
2010-07-18, 05:35 AM
If something is officially released as audio on a CD (or LP/Cas) but not as video on a DVD (or VHS/LD) is it allowed to seed the video here? I mean the audio part probably came from the same source for both? I have this Muddy (http://db.etree.org/lookup_show.php?shows_key=57718) vid I would like to share, but I'm not sure if that's okay hence the question.

rspencer
2010-07-18, 12:57 PM
PM the mods (or just report this post). Send us the set list from the video & the official release.

Without more info, the answer is just "it depends..." :)

daddyray
2010-07-18, 02:50 PM
That Muddy Waters show (as audio let alone vid) is not a real commercial release.......no musicians got paid for that nor was the band informed of the recording...I recall reading about those shows in particular when the cd revolution hit n the guys who had been in the band mentioned being surprised they had even been recorded for what that's worth.
If jabulon has video of this I suspect to should be allowed here...please share it..I would love to see it, ya know I am nuts for Muddy waters stuff
that's my two cent.

daddyray
2010-07-18, 02:51 PM
please please please....especially if he takes the time to get the sync straight we should eat that up boys n girls.

jabulon
2010-07-18, 04:58 PM
PM the mods (or just report this post). Send us the set list from the video & the official release.

Without more info, the answer is just "it depends..." :)

okay the show in question is: Muddy Waters 1976-10-22, Warsaw Poland (see http://db.etree.org/lookup_show.php?shows_key=57718). The video I have is taken from a recent satelite re-broadcast by TVP Kultura (Polish TV station). The audio on this video is from the TV broadcast (mp2), not the 'allegedly' commercial released audio (2LP).

The set list is:
Floyd's guitar Blues (missing in this broadcast)
G.P.S. Boogie (missing in this broadcast)
Baby Please Don't Go
Soon Forgotten
Corinne Corinna
Hoochie Coochie Man
Howlin' Wolf
Blow Wind Blow
What's A Matter With A Meal
Kansas City
Caldonia (missing in this broadcast)
Screamin' & Cryin' (missing in this broadcast)
I Got My Mojo Working (missing in this broadcast)
Gabbage Man (missing in this broadcast)

here are some links I could find about the audio being released.
http://www.answers.com/topic/live-at-jazz-jamboree-76-1976-album-by-muddy-waters
http://www.softshoe-slim.com/lists/w/waters_muddy.html#18
http://www.artistdirect.com/nad/store/artist/album/0,,183213,00.html

hope this is enough info for you guys.

rspencer
2010-07-18, 06:33 PM
The question of whether the band was justly compensated is, sadly, inconsequential. We can't allow the many Parliament/Funkadelic releases from the '70s just because Westbound ripped off George & the guys.

From what I've found, this show has been released a number of times, under various titles by various labels. That can happen to bootlegs of course, but happens to legit older releases too, especially those on minor labels.

I don't see how we can blanket negate all of the releases, nor do I see how we can possibly check the "legitimacy" of every version.

So I'd say putting it up here would be a no-go. But I'm reporting the post to get opinions from the other mods.

jabulon
2010-07-19, 03:00 AM
I'll await your definite answer, thanks in advance.

Aimee Wilbury
2010-08-21, 10:11 PM
Is there any way to share videos with absolutely no lineage whatsoever?

rspencer
2010-08-22, 12:42 PM
Not here.

jabulon
2010-10-01, 07:48 AM
HD2DVD ... are these dvd's allowed to be torrented here?

I have a trade dvd with the following lineage/source:

Lineage: ATSC broadcast > AverMedia Volar > TSReader (record) > TS Packet Editor
Authoring: DGIndex (demux) > ProCoder3 (Conversion, master quality) > Encore CS4 (authoring)

is this allowed here?

U2Lynne
2010-10-01, 10:24 AM
You'd do best to PM one of the video mods about that. I think this thread is only viewed by the audio mods.

jabulon
2010-10-01, 10:55 AM
You'd do best to PM one of the video mods about that. I think this thread is only viewed by the audio mods.
Thanks U2Lynne for your reply.

Lordaj92
2010-12-17, 08:00 AM
I'd like to share a Rolling stones' show (Knebworth 76) but all I've got is this crappy lineage :

Source: 2 Multicolor LP's > Lossless FLAC quality.

I suppose it's not okay and there is nothing I can do, right ? ;)

bstrohl
2010-12-17, 10:36 AM
And the troll of the week award goes too ... :)

I'd like to share a Rolling stones' show (Knebworth 76) but all I've got is this crappy lineage :

Source: 2 Multicolor LP's > Lossless FLAC quality.

I suppose it's not okay and there is nothing I can do, right ? ;)

Darn, I thought I had it.

Five
2010-12-21, 03:20 AM
tape source will usually be better than vinyl source if not then there are vinyl copies out there to do a properly documented transfer. so don't bother with that transfer probably bad turntable > bad soundcard

MasterSandman II
2011-01-18, 04:26 AM
Trying to figure out lineage for some shows I just received in a trade. Just looking for something basic so it has lineage from here on out. Normally...if it was burned as an AUDIO CD then I would use something like this:

CDR(x) > EAC > WAV > FLAC

But these shows were burned as a data disc so all I had to do was copy the audio files to my hard drive. What would the lineage be now?

rspencer
2011-01-18, 06:28 AM
It would just be ".wav" rather than "CDR."

But your issue is what came before that. :dunno:

boyerlaurier
2011-01-25, 09:41 AM
OK, I need help. I'm not technically inclined, so please don't hammer me with techno babble.

I uploaded this torrent a few hours ago, but it's locked at 99.9% I have no clue how to solve it efficiently, and yes, I read the FAQ.

I used trader's little helper to create checksum, and I use UTorrent 2.2

http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=89069

U2Lynne
2011-01-25, 10:32 AM
OK, I need help. I'm not technically inclined, so please don't hammer me with techno babble.

I uploaded this torrent a few hours ago, but it's locked at 99.9% I have no clue how to solve it efficiently, and yes, I read the FAQ.

I used trader's little helper to create checksum, and I use UTorrent 2.2

http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=89069
I am seeding a show, but no one can complete past 99.9% Why? (http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/faq.php?faq=bittorrent#faq_99)

paddington
2011-01-25, 10:56 AM
OK, I need help. I'm not technically inclined, so please don't hammer me with techno babble.

I uploaded this torrent a few hours ago, but it's locked at 99.9% I have no clue how to solve it efficiently, and yes, I read the FAQ.

I used trader's little helper to create checksum, and I use UTorrent 2.2

http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=89069


You have a couple files that no longer match the .torrent file you uploaded.

Based on your situation, my guess is that your text file was changed after you made the .torrent file. The Track 18 problem is likely happening because part of that data piece included the txt file, so it cannot complete, either.


The only way to fix something like this is to re-make your .torrent, then upload without changing anything else.

The current .torrent post cannot be fixed, so I have pulled it so you can re-upload when you are able.

http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1548984#post1548984

junebug
2011-02-12, 10:23 AM
I wanted to seed a 1980's KBFH FM with 3 tracks I added from another source which only had FM broadcast in its lineage for the complete broadcast. And no the missing tracks are not officially released. I can only figure they were left off the original because of time constraints. I have checked with spectrum analysis also.

Lineage: LP > CDR > SHN > FLAC > Added Missing tracks (from rebroadcast source date unknown) and tweaked in Toast > exported to Flac

jabulon
2011-03-06, 03:59 PM
Hi folks, I have a EAC-extracted copy of a silver (complete with logs, cues etc), but it is one big FLAC file (one track instead of the 8 tracks as on the silver). What is the right way to split this file into the original 8 tracks (and be able to upload it here)? Do I use audacity (or a similar program like that), split the file into the 8 tracks, TLH>FLAC (SB's etc).

The final lineage would be:
Silver>EAC>WAV>FLAC>WAV>Audacity(split tracks)>WAV>FLAC
:wave:

rspencer
2011-03-06, 04:11 PM
Audacity will do it. CDWave, Sound Forge, etc.
And, as you noted, make sure you check to align on sector boundaries when you re-FLAC.

Splitting it isn't absolutely required, but obviously it would be preferred.

jabulon
2011-03-06, 04:12 PM
Audacity will do it. CDWave, Sound Forge, etc.
And, as you noted, make sure you check to align on sector boundaries when you re-FLAC.

Splitting it isn't absolutely required, but obviously it would be preferred.

Thanks for your swift reply!

Unidecker
2011-03-07, 09:38 AM
cd wave ftw

danasan
2013-04-01, 06:29 AM
I've got a problem now. I was just going to share a bootleg here called "Simply Red - The Colour Red live in Montreux, July 8th, 1986"

This can be found here:

http://www.musik-sammler.de/album/170620

I was doing some search to make sure it wasn't released officially when I was stumbeling... There is a bonus - DVD with that concert, which can be found here:

http://www.amazon.de/Picture-Book-Simply-Red/dp/samples/B0018BDAM0

Anybody out there who can say if it is the same source?

If these two items came from different sources, would it be allowed to share them here?

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

FLashfan
2013-10-30, 10:58 AM
I am a new member here with firewall issues. I have done everything to correct the problem, but nothing works. I have learned from my experience on another tracker that I am one of those whose firewall issues can not be corrected.

I plan to start by uploading a few of my masters to bring my ratio up before I download anything. My first attempt today brought 2 error messages:

1. No torrent file attached. I have tried to attach the torrent file using the "Manage Attachments" button, but it still tells me no torrent file attached.

2. No fingerprints included. I have an .ffp file, but I don't know how to add fingerprints.

Am I even close to doing this correctly? Is there a step-by-step guide to walk me through this?

Thanks for listening.

overhead
2013-10-30, 11:19 AM
Did you remember to upload the torrent file? You browse to select it,then upload it to the tracker.(I often forget that bit.)

The ffp file can be opened with notepad,then copy and paste onto your post.

aikowolf
2013-10-30, 02:17 PM
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/faq.php?faq=rules#faq_audioguide

FLashfan
2013-10-31, 01:19 PM
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/faq.php?faq=rules#faq_audioguide

OK, I figured out how to add the fingerprints, but now when I try to upload the torrent file, I get a failure message. I was able to upload the torrent file before, but now it fails. I deleted the torrent file and created a new one, and tried it again, but still getting failure message.

AAR.oner
2013-11-01, 04:27 AM
this may help shed some light:
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=105410


sometimes there's a glitch here & there...send U2Lynne a message, she can straighten it out on the tracker:
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/member.php?u=1

mr breeze
2014-05-24, 08:14 PM
hi,
I uploaded a Van Morrison torrent (burning ground, San Jose 1998) this morning and went out of town. I just got back and went to check on the torrent and it is gone from the listing of torrents.
I can search for Van Morrison 1998 and find it but its not on my list of uploaded torrents either.
how do I find out what happened?
thanks

Tappy
2014-05-24, 08:27 PM
hi,
I uploaded a Van Morrison torrent (burning ground, San Jose 1998) this morning and went out of town. I just got back and went to check on the torrent and it is gone from the listing of torrents.
I can search for Van Morrison 1998 and find it but its not on my list of uploaded torrents either.
how do I find out what happened?
thanks

Check here: http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=110847

mr breeze
2014-05-24, 08:55 PM
> Check here: http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/...wpost&t=110847

thanks Tappy,
I see its in the pulled torrents list page.
it struck me funny I had already uploaded 3 or 4 VM torrents and they weren't pulled although I see from your link VM is on the non allowed list, which is apparently out of date as they have been uploading VM at dime for a year and a half!

Sabbathomaniac
2015-05-26, 03:03 AM
Many thanks for this thread. My question: I have a direct rip (done with EAC) of a silver-disc bootleg. The artwork of the silver disc says it is straight from the master tape. This kind of claim on the artwork of a silver-CD bootleg may of course simply be wrong; on the other hand, in this case may well be true since the great sound of the recording indicates no generational quality loss. Moreover, even if the claim is true and thus the source of the silver was the master tape, we do not know what kind of mastering/compression/whatever procedures they applied to it.
Now, putting up that show, which lineage shall I give? I can think of at least three different options:
AUD > ? > Silver CD > EAC > WAV > FLAC
AUD > master tape > Silver CD > EAC > WAV > FLAC
AUD > master tape> unknown edits/mastering etc.? > Silver CD > EAC > WAV > FLAC
Which would be best, or maybe there's another, better option? Please let me know what you think.
(I already uploaded two such shows and chose the first option above, but I think that the master-tape claim on the artwork, especially if the name of the taper is mentioned there too, might be valuable information for downloaders and thus be mentioned in the lineage.)

U2Lynne
2015-05-26, 10:55 AM
Any of those would be fine. I would probably put an * next to the second step and then just explain that "* according to the artwork, which may or may not be true, this is from the Master Tape". Something like that.

Sabbathomaniac
2015-05-27, 03:16 PM
Any of those would be fine. I would probably put an * next to the second step and then just explain that "* according to the artwork, which may or may not be true, this is from the Master Tape". Something like that.

Many thanks for the helpful reply! :-)

jamesd
2017-04-11, 10:50 AM
Artist Prince had these "alternative" bootleg record companies. Can I post these sets? Or is this out of scope for this website.
Some sets have no Silver pressings, 4DF, FBG or DFB fan made for fans. Some are more commercial.
This stuff was recorded when i was running around in nappies. :)

AUD > ? > CDr > EAC > WAV > FLAC

Example of a small set, another 4DF contains like 90 cd's.

Akashic Records Catalogue :

Dakota II
fDeluxe & Sheila E - A Family Affair at BB King's
George Clinton & Parliament-Funkadelic
Morris Day & The Time - Funk Fest 2012
LA3: Club Nokia
LA3: The Conga Room
Live Out Loud at the Joint
Love or $
Montreal Square
The Excelebration
The Love We Make in Tempe 2013
The Revolution - My Purple Heart
The Roots - Purple Bowl
W2A: Opening Night
What Happens in Vegas

rstone5
2017-11-01, 06:44 PM
Hello, would appreciate advice. Hope this is appropriate venue?

Have had recent feedback from a member about torrent (gd, 1977-11-04, Colgate, flac). He notes 3SBD sources on etree for this show, probably same source. He regrets he gave me an ID to #2595 based on track times. "This is almost certainly not an endorsement"

He commented again today. Doesn't want to see the pool contaminated with bad dl's, a better site for these files. I replied - mistake. Tried to leave out contentious parts but my reply isn't posted - probably I failed and was just right out of line. Any advice other than to keep my mouth shut? Rod