PDA

View Full Version : Vinyl analogue to FLAC transfers


alg
2005-09-21, 07:17 AM
Right I have several vinyl LZ boots bought in the early 80s that I would like to convert to FLAC.

I have read a few threads but would like to clarify the best route.

The setup is REGA3 tt with excellent cartridge/needle via preamp into creative audigy2 SC with nero 6 (megaplug in pack inc FLAC and SHN).

I may consider seeding them however the aim initially is for personnal use.

Questions
1 Should I use software to 'clean up' recordings? If yes what have people had experience with
2 Will nero 6 cope with analogue to digital conversion or do I need additional software ?
3 Do I plug the preamp into the Logitec surround sound controller line in port or into the soundcard ? Does it matter ?
4 Finally I am struggling to clearly identify all the vinyl ? anyone know of a good vinyl LZ boot website ? CD/DVD are everywhere !

AAR.oner
2005-09-21, 08:01 AM
first off, ALOT of the LZ vinyl boots are in circulation, so you might wanna find out if these have already been transferred to lossless first. as to a good website/database, i'm unsure, other than db.etree...i'll see if i can find out some LZ specific sites and post back here


1 Should I use software to 'clean up' recordings? If yes what have people had experience with
NO, unless its only for personal use only...alot of audio progs have Noise Reduction, Pop/Click removal, etc, but they will *wreck* your recording...unless yer an *experienced* engineer with lots of remastering knowlege, i'd leave them be as is [apart from a possible Normalize to rise the overall levels]

if you wanna play with "clean-up" i would save and archive the "Raw" recording, then copy it to yer HD and fool with the "Copy" files...if you ever seed it, ONLY seed the "Raw" version
2 Will nero 6 cope with analogue to digital conversion or do I need additional software ?
stay away from Nero except for burning discs. if you don't have access to a higher-end Audio prog, you can go with Audacity which is freeware...you can record the analogue signal, tracksplit, resample [if necessary], etc with this prog http://audacity.sourceforge.net/
3 Do I plug the preamp into the Logitec surround sound controller line in port or into the soundcard ? Does it matter ?
not knowing what kinda outs you have on yer pre, most likely you'll be going RCA outs > line in jack on yer soundcard...

of course, using SPDIF Coax or another digi form of connection would be ideal, but i'm pretty sure the Audigy 2 didn'thave these capabilites [working off memeory]

as a note, i figure since you have a decent turntable, yer cartridge is good as well...i'd give the vinyl a good cleaning or two before hand, and if the cartridge is very used, replace before doing this...a great resource for vinyl related gear [at good prices] is turntablelab.com

alg
2005-09-21, 08:07 AM
Thanks for that. I had already downloaded Audacity. :)

AAR.oner
2005-09-21, 08:25 AM
audacity is good...fwiw, when i'm transferring shows from DAT to the computer, i use it to cature instead of one of the pro-level recording programs...simple and accurate!

Five
2005-09-21, 11:48 PM
alg,

go to royal-orleans.com and ask about these boots there. the ppl there are very cool and will help you out.

the vinyl boots you have are probably available in better quality but its always good to double-check.

out of curiosity, what are the titles of the vinyl boots? I used to collect vinyl zep boots, too.

alg
2005-09-22, 04:04 AM
alg,

go to royal-orleans.com and ask about these boots there. the ppl there are very cool and will help you out.

the vinyl boots you have are probably available in better quality but its always good to double-check.

out of curiosity, what are the titles of the vinyl boots? I used to collect vinyl zep boots, too.

Checked out all major LZ sites. Used royal orleans +++ great site Lots of info re CD boots but I would like to trace the versions I have.
Badge Holders 2LP
Destroyer box 4LP
Two double LP sets from 1980 tour venues unclear ? Berlin for one

The 1977 ones I can trace the show but wonder how many reissues from original I am. If you get my drift.

AAR.oner
2005-09-22, 08:46 AM
alg--you might wanna search the net for Rare Record Collecting Guides that are out there...i'm unsure whether these include boots or not, but it might be a start...good luck!

bowman
2005-09-22, 10:11 AM
Questions
1 Should I use software to 'clean up' recordings? If yes what have people had experience with
2 Will nero 6 cope with analogue to digital conversion or do I need additional software ?
3 Do I plug the preamp into the Logitec surround sound controller line in port or into the soundcard ? Does it matter ?
4 Finally I am struggling to clearly identify all the vinyl ? anyone know of a good vinyl LZ boot website ? CD/DVD are everywhere !

1. Not to disagree with Aaron, but noise/click pop removal will not wreck your recording if you use it at an extremely low setting. Typically, its only good for getting rid of the small, nearly inaudible clicks. It will get rid of some of the bigger sounds, but make sure you listen to the recording carefully after running click removal.

That being said, Sonic Foundary's Noise Removal is pretty damn awesome.

For 95% of the clicks and pops in vinyl, I manually remove the clicks/pops. After a while, you really start to get used to what the clicks and pops look like and you're able to instantly delete each pop.

2. Technically, the A>D isnt handled by *any* software, its handled by your soundcard.

3. Depends on the manuf. but make sure that your record player does not need to run into a reciever before running into the line input. Record player recievers have something called an RIAA curve and this curve may or may not exist in your 'preamp' so if your first attempt at recording sounds terrible, this is why.

AAR.oner
2005-09-22, 11:15 AM
i've noted that Bowman...yer catchin a beatdown next time i come down off the mountain :lol

nah, i just usually discourage using any sort of processing simply because most folks don't have the audio engineering knowlege, equipment, or "ear" to properly clean up a recording...if you [the universal "you"] got the knowlege, by all means give it a go! otherwise, its best to leave it in a "raw" form, and others can clean up for personal listening as they see fit

as to the preamp, most preamps designed for turntables basically work as a "receiver"...for instance, my "preamp" is my mixer...to transfer, i run my turntables > mixer > comp line in [for "basic" soundcard setup, not my highend setup ;) ]

what you *don't* want to do is boost yer turntable's signal with the preamp, and then boost it again with the soundcard...hence using the line-in only, and not mic-in or similar...

hope that makes sense...i'm on a coffee binger right now

Five
2005-09-22, 01:12 PM
Checked out all major LZ sites. Used royal orleans +++ great site Lots of info re CD boots but I would like to trace the versions I have.
Badge Holders 2LP
Destroyer box 4LP
Two double LP sets from 1980 tour venues unclear ? Berlin for one

The 1977 ones I can trace the show but wonder how many reissues from original I am. If you get my drift.
which Badge Holders? the one with Jimmy on the front or the one with Robert or do you have both? They were sold separately. I believe the original was the dragonfly pressing, with a pic of a dragonfly printed on the centre of the records themselves. the 2nd pressing had plain white no dragonfly as I recall, but I'll have to look that up.

there are a lot of versions of Destroyer, it was Clevland '77 the earlier versions were aud then sbd destroyers showed up. one version came in a plastic case.

Berlin '80? maybe this is the last show (I think that's 1980-07-07).

I've got the really old books detailing all this stuff... if you could give me more info I'll look it up for you in the next couple days. It would be helpful to know a) what the covers look like, are they loose "slicks" or are they printed right on the sleeves, colour or b&w, b) what's on the record labels themselves, and c) all the matrix numbers (scratched in the runoff close to the centre of the record). each side should have a matrix #.

we should be able to identify them all. fwiw, I'm pretty sure that there are better quality and more complete versions of all of these shows circulating.

alg
2005-09-23, 04:22 AM
which Badge Holders? the one with Jimmy on the front or the one with Robert or do you have both? They were sold separately. I believe the original was the dragonfly pressing, with a pic of a dragonfly printed on the centre of the records themselves. the 2nd pressing had plain white no dragonfly as I recall, but I'll have to look that up.

there are a lot of versions of Destroyer, it was Clevland '77 the earlier versions were aud then sbd destroyers showed up. one version came in a plastic case.

Berlin '80? maybe this is the last show (I think that's 1980-07-07).

I've got the really old books detailing all this stuff... if you could give me more info I'll look it up for you in the next couple days. It would be helpful to know a) what the covers look like, are they loose "slicks" or are they printed right on the sleeves, colour or b&w, b) what's on the record labels themselves, and c) all the matrix numbers (scratched in the runoff close to the centre of the record). each side should have a matrix #.

we should be able to identify them all. fwiw, I'm pretty sure that there are better quality and more complete versions of all of these shows circulating.

Thanks for that I will get the details this W/E. All my old books are in the parents attic.
Badge holders JP twin neck b/w on blue background. 2 LP in single card sleeve loose 'slicks' no dragonfly AFAIK
Destroyer 4 LP boxed set JP on stars/stripes effect background two tone mauve/blue no labels on records cannot check runoff details at work card track listing inside refers to made in USA thanks to Bonzo etc
1980 one sepia tone 'zeppelin going down' gatefold printed on card
1980 one yellow cover with pics of band swissair on LP labels printed on card

That is from memory. I will post more this W/E

Five
2005-09-23, 12:09 PM
cool

I'll grab my books and see what I can find (I'm at work right now)

post up more info when you get the chance

also check what mustardpie is posting over at royal-orleans

alg
2005-09-23, 02:44 PM
More details as promised

Zeppelin over Europe 'eye thank yew' yellow printed front cover pics from 1980 tour of all band members
back cover b/w knebworth pics D.HIP 001 top R corner copyright happy hippo records miami japan (sic)
1 NFBM 2 BD 3 ITE 4RS 5HD 6AML 7TUF 8SIBLY 9ALS 10WS 11 KASH 12STH 13RR 14HB
Labels ii records swissair run out ZZYZX030/D 2 lp ONE SLEEVE

ZOSO 80 ? title 1980 TOUR NO OBVIOUS TITLE SEPIA TONE GATEFOLD pepso france run out ZM-278-ABCD made in france
1BD 2ITE 3RS 4 HD 5AML 6TUF 7SIBLY 8ALS 9WS 10KASH 11STH 12RR 13WLL

I have not played these for years but I am sure one or both kick off with Train kept even tho not listed

FBHO part 1 original masters reissue series 1981 sh-human vinyloids an oleg kirov presentation no label on disc run off BHI-SIDE 1 ETC
1 SA 2HFBM 3OTHAFA 4SIBLY 5TYG 6TBFE 7GTC 8BMS 9KASH 10TUF 11STH 12 WLL 13 RR WITH KEITH MOON

DESTROYER DRGM505 STEREO MADE IN USA DRGM505 run out

range_hood
2005-09-24, 03:25 PM
[...]i'd give the vinyl a good cleaning or two before hand, [...]:thumbsup
to me this is essential, manual pop/click remolval (if itīs caused by dirt) is always better beforehand.
what method do you use? I use Holgers "cheap thrill".

Five
2005-09-24, 03:30 PM
More details as promised

Zeppelin over Europe 'eye thank yew' yellow printed front cover pics from 1980 tour of all band members
back cover b/w knebworth pics D.HIP 001 top R corner copyright happy hippo records miami japan (sic)
1 NFBM 2 BD 3 ITE 4RS 5HD 6AML 7TUF 8SIBLY 9ALS 10WS 11 KASH 12STH 13RR 14HB
Labels ii records swissair run out ZZYZX030/D 2 lp ONE SLEEVE

ZOSO 80 ? title 1980 TOUR NO OBVIOUS TITLE SEPIA TONE GATEFOLD pepso france run out ZM-278-ABCD made in france
1BD 2ITE 3RS 4 HD 5AML 6TUF 7SIBLY 8ALS 9WS 10KASH 11STH 12RR 13WLL

I have not played these for years but I am sure one or both kick off with Train kept even tho not listed

FBHO part 1 original masters reissue series 1981 sh-human vinyloids an oleg kirov presentation no label on disc run off BHI-SIDE 1 ETC
1 SA 2HFBM 3OTHAFA 4SIBLY 5TYG 6TBFE 7GTC 8BMS 9KASH 10TUF 11STH 12 WLL 13 RR WITH KEITH MOON

DESTROYER DRGM505 STEREO MADE IN USA DRGM505 run out
I haven't got the books with me right here (I'm at my gf's house right now) but I flipped thru them yesterday and believe I have all the information necessary to identify these for you. I'll post back in the next few days stay tuned.

AAR.oner
2005-09-24, 06:38 PM
:thumbsup
to me this is essential, manual pop/click remolval (if itīs caused by dirt) is always better beforehand.
what method do you use? I use Holgers "cheap thrill".
depends...for normal cleaning i usually D4 or GruvGlide, whatevers around

for "restoring" old vinyl, or if theres liquid or mold stains, i use Groovy Cleaner...that stuff is the ISH!!! fer real, well worth the 20 buckz to order...i've used maybe half the bottle in the last few years...i got it from these cats [who i've bought gear/vinyl from for years] -- http://turntablelab.com/index1.html [bottom of the dj accessories page 1]

alg
2005-09-25, 02:29 AM
I haven't got the books with me right here (I'm at my gf's house right now) but I flipped thru them yesterday and believe I have all the information necessary to identify these for you. I'll post back in the next few days stay tuned.

eye thank ewe

range_hood
2005-09-25, 02:39 AM
1/3 isopropyl
2/3 distilled water
One drop non lathering detergent
micro fibre clothes
goes for under 10 euros.

btw I do the cleaning wet.

Sure one of those (http://www.bluedanube.at/eng/e_welcome.html) would be nice to have.:)

alg
2005-09-29, 07:35 AM
eye thank ewe

Just to answer my own question. There is a vinyl LZ boot guide at the 'Tight but Loose' Dave Lewis site. Its the link to jeff Hoff collectors guide which lists vinyl

AAR.oner
2005-09-29, 10:50 AM
good to know alg...thanks for the info

Five
2005-09-29, 12:34 PM
what's the link for that? I'd love to have a peek

I'll be back with the info from my books in a few days when I get the net at home again.

alg
2005-09-29, 04:36 PM
http://www.tightbutloose.co.uk/tbllinksfs.html then Jeff Hoff link

rockthing
2005-10-12, 12:19 PM
Nice!
I love Zep boot vinyl.
I don't know why, when there are nice clean (and complete)
cd releases of the same shows in abundance.

Some really good info here about tt/record maintanence too.

Nice to meet some other vinyl enthusiasts. You folks outpace me by a mile, but
I'll be happy to have some knowledgable superiors about. :)

>alg>
I recognize two of the records you have. I have them too.
The book I use to ID my vinyl is by Robert Godwin.
It's old now and he has published newer editions I think.
Never ran across a record he didn't know about. He doesn't seem to have a web-site.

I'd never noticed the vinyl link on TBL. I'll have to check that out myself.

Did you find the info you were looking for?

I guess so, since this no one has posted to this thread for weeks.
I just noticed that after I looked up the info on your records and typed it into the message.

Actually, I did find that "Strange Tales From The Road
had the labels and matrix numbers switched on the last two discs.
He didn't mention that.... I'll have to check out TBL

Five
2005-10-12, 01:28 PM
I'll post the info soon from the old Godwin guides ... still waiting to get connected at home :(

rockthing
2005-10-12, 10:02 PM
Well, I can post it right now, if you don't mind and were intending to do it anyway.
Seemed like the question had already been answered, though.
Here are the cliff's notes to save bandwidth, if anybody wants the full details
I can edit the post.
This info came from Robert Godwin's
"The Illustrated Collector's Guide To Led Zeppelin" 3rd Edition;
1990 Robert Godwin Canada
(as well as a few of my own notes based on pieces in my collection)

The blue bg with Jimmy in sunglasses and white suit playing the doubleneck.
I knew that one immediately.

"For Badge Holders Only"
L.A. Forum 1977/06/23
LP Label: Ruthless Rhymes
Company: Dragonfly
Matrix Numbers: RE ONE TWO THREE FOUR

S1: SA, NBFBM, OTHAFA, Black Country Woman; S2: SIBLY, TYG, BOE
S3: GTC, WS/BMSide/Kashmir, TU; S4: STH, WLLove/RnR*
*with special guest Keith Moon (doing something er other)

Colored vinyl = reissue but only 100 ltd ed.
also
Original Masters Re-issue Series, Matrix Numbers: BH1 1-4 = re-issue, different plates
(Robert Godwin doesn't mention any dragonfly lp labels in the 3rd edition)
I'm pretty sure this is an AUD recording.
-------------------------------

"Destroyer"
I'm not 100% certain of the jacket you describe, but this should be the SBD Destroyer.
They played Cleveland two nights in a row in 77 and both boots
are commonly known as some variation of 'Destroyer'.
The SBD is available for the first night, 4/27.
If the matrix numbers are DRGM 505 A-H you've got the US issued SBD Destroyer.
Robert Godwin says that audience noise has been added to the recording.
I don't have this one, so that's all I can say.

"Black Country Woman" is left off the set list on the jacket.
It should open S7.

First issue came in a carrying case of some sort.
Re-issue has no case and further re-issues are yellow and black.
There is colored vinyl as well.
R.Godwin says that the colored vinyl has the same Mtx numbers as the European issue.
The only difference being that one has crowd noise 'piped in' and the other doesn't.
Again, I'm only retyping (and slightly rephrasing) what I've read here.

FWIW the second show is generally regarded as a superior performance, but
save the whole band getting totally lost in Kashmir
(a---nd a few sticky fingers episodes here and there)

it's not as bad as some people make it out to be.
------------------------------------------------------------------

The sepia one is "Zoso80". I recognized this one right off the bat as well.
Mannheim Germany 1980/07/02
'Train Kept a Rollin' is on the record, but not listed.
It should come at the end of side 2 after SIBLY.

Though most of the 1980 shows are SBD, this one sounds like an AUD to me,
but it's a really good recording.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Eye Thank Yew" could actually be stuff from TSRTS soundtrack
recorded at MSG 1973/07/27.
OR
could be the re-issue of "Swiss Made".

alg's matrix numbers match the latter.
In this case it would be a
SBD
from Zurich Switzerland 1980/06/29.

I don't own this record, but This show is widely available.
It was the first Zep boot tape I ever got
(many years after buying a thin sounding lp version of Earl's Court... nice cover, though)
There have been several re-issues of the CD titled "Tour Over Europe 1980" even.

Robert Godwin points out that the cheap pirating* of not only the movie soundtrack
but also of the original "Eye Thank Yew" jacket is also detectable by a sticker that
covered the original song titles.

*my words


Again, if anyone wants this typed up in a more systematic fashion I can always
edit this post and include full setlists.

rockthing
2005-10-14, 05:18 PM
Actually, TBL says that the "Eye Thank Yew" one is an AUD
I didn't know there was an AUD of Zurich.

Great link, thanks

freezer
2005-10-14, 06:12 PM
Just to answer my own question. There is a vinyl LZ boot guide at the 'Tight but Loose' Dave Lewis site. Its the link to jeff Hoff collectors guide which lists vinyl



Lots of misinformation on the Hoff site.


At least I see the misinformation as it pertains to all of the 4 Led Zeppelin shows that I recorded.

I also see misinformation on shows that I got directly from the tapers. But we'll not speak of that again. Let those master tapers come forward to speak of that.

Maybe Mr. Hoff is working in a vacuum, or maybe he has another agenda entirely, or maybe he isn't quite the expert he makes himself out to be.

Or maybe someone in the Led Zeppeliin trading community has so clouded the waters on the entire Led Zeppelin live recorded legacy that no one will ever be able to straighten it out...Gee, I wonder who could or would have done such a thing? Well, it doesn't take much presence of mind to figure that who would be behind such an occurance.


Again, I am no overall expert on Led Zeppelin, but I am 'the' expert on 4 specific recordings, only because I was at those shows and it's my recording which circulates (or is not in common circulation.) On these listings, Mr. Hoffs is dead wrong. (I can point out my voice on these recordings and I have done so to certain Led Zeppelin collectors, if verification is needed that I actually recorded these tapes.)


The question then begs: So, On how many other instances could Hoff be wrong, if on my work he is 100% dead wrong?

rockthing
2005-10-17, 03:00 PM
Lots of misinformation on the Hoff site.


At least I see the misinformation as it pertains to all of the 4 Led Zeppelin shows that I recorded.

I also see misinformation on shows that I got directly from the tapers. But we'll not speak of that again. Let those master tapers come forward to speak of that.

Maybe Mr. Hoff is working in a vacuum, or maybe he has another agenda entirely, or maybe he isn't quite the expert he makes himself out to be.

Or maybe someone in the Led Zeppeliin trading community has so clouded the waters on the entire Led Zeppelin live recorded legacy that no one will ever be able to straighten it out...Gee, I wonder who could or would have done such a thing? Well, it doesn't take much presence of mind to figure that who would be behind such an occurance.


Again, I am no overall expert on Led Zeppelin, but I am 'the' expert on 4 specific recordings, only because I was at those shows and it's my recording which circulates (or is not in common circulation.) On these listings, Mr. Hoffs is dead wrong. (I can point out my voice on these recordings and I have done so to certain Led Zeppelin collectors, if verification is needed that I actually recorded these tapes.)


The question then begs: So, On how many other instances could Hoff be wrong, if on my work he is 100% dead wrong?
"Presence" of mind... nice one...

Thanks for your input on the site.
I noticed that it certainly wasn't complete, but have no other means of verifying his info.
I, for one, have absolutely no idea who 'in the Zeppelin trading community' could be
clouding the waters or why.... I don't know, ... could it be.... SATAN!
(sorry, you had to be watching 'Saturday Night Live' in the 80s to get that)
Unless it could be one or both of the sources quoted above.

Personally,
I've only ever come across one instance where Robert Godwin failed to mention
a detail about a record that I picked up. As far as I can tell. When it comes to vinyl,
he knows all.

Am I crossing a line unknown to the layman by asking you what shows you taped?
Just curious, as I've never even seen a live Led Zeppelin show. :disbelief

freezer
2005-10-17, 11:42 PM
Am I crossing a line unknown to the layman by asking you what shows you taped?
Just curious, as I've never even seen a live Led Zeppelin show. :disbelief

I've never seen 'em either, if you ask the undead.......... :rolleyes:

(sorry, you'd have to believe 21 year old TTD 'lounge lizards' in 05 to get that)

Let's just say that I am the taper of LZ 2/28/75 Baton Rouge....and we'll leave it at that.

alg
2005-10-18, 06:05 AM
Lots of misinformation on the Hoff site.


At least I see the misinformation as it pertains to all of the 4 Led Zeppelin shows that I recorded.

I also see misinformation on shows that I got directly from the tapers. But we'll not speak of that again. Let those master tapers come forward to speak of that.

Maybe Mr. Hoff is working in a vacuum, or maybe he has another agenda entirely, or maybe he isn't quite the expert he makes himself out to be.

Or maybe someone in the Led Zeppeliin trading community has so clouded the waters on the entire Led Zeppelin live recorded legacy that no one will ever be able to straighten it out...Gee, I wonder who could or would have done such a thing? Well, it doesn't take much presence of mind to figure that who would be behind such an occurance.


Again, I am no overall expert on Led Zeppelin, but I am 'the' expert on 4 specific recordings, only because I was at those shows and it's my recording which circulates (or is not in common circulation.) On these listings, Mr. Hoffs is dead wrong. (I can point out my voice on these recordings and I have done so to certain Led Zeppelin collectors, if verification is needed that I actually recorded these tapes.)


The question then begs: So, On how many other instances could Hoff be wrong, if on my work he is 100% dead wrong?

Thanks for the tantalising post......which begs the question. Do you know of a 'reliable' source of infomation ? I mean I have old hot wacks books but they make little comment beyond track listings. Most Zep sites now concentrate on CD versions rather than vinyl.
With regards to your question. The generic answer is that 'experts' rarely if ever 'are wrong' whatever the field.
Oh and are any of my tiny vinyl collection 'yours' ?

freezer
2005-10-18, 12:34 PM
Thanks for the tantalising post......which begs the question. Do you know of a 'reliable' source of infomation ? I mean I have old hot wacks books but they make little comment beyond track listings. Most Zep sites now concentrate on CD versions rather than vinyl.

Not really...what I was pointing out is that the 'expert' mentioned was wrong about the shows I recorded.

I only recorded 4 Led Zep shows.

If I (who am not an expert on Led Zep) can see that this 'expert' is wrong just on the 4 shows I am positive about, the question obviously is, how many of his other entries are wrong?

Basically, that 'expert' is only expounding his own opinion, correct?

And we all know what opinions are like.......


With regards to your question. The generic answer is that 'experts' rarely if ever 'are wrong' whatever the field.

Its been my experience that "experts" in bootlegs and live audience recordings and "ROIRs" are self proclaimed experts.

Ask a self-proclaimed expert if he's wrong?

What do you think he'll say....

mort
2005-10-18, 12:38 PM
Lots of misinformation on the Hoff site.


At least I see the misinformation as it pertains to all of the 4 Led Zeppelin shows that I recorded.

I also see misinformation on shows that I got directly from the tapers. But we'll not speak of that again. Let those master tapers come forward to speak of that.

Maybe Mr. Hoff is working in a vacuum, or maybe he has another agenda entirely, or maybe he isn't quite the expert he makes himself out to be.

Or maybe someone in the Led Zeppeliin trading community has so clouded the waters on the entire Led Zeppelin live recorded legacy that no one will ever be able to straighten it out...Gee, I wonder who could or would have done such a thing? Well, it doesn't take much presence of mind to figure that who would be behind such an occurance.


Again, I am no overall expert on Led Zeppelin, but I am 'the' expert on 4 specific recordings, only because I was at those shows and it's my recording which circulates (or is not in common circulation.) On these listings, Mr. Hoffs is dead wrong. (I can point out my voice on these recordings and I have done so to certain Led Zeppelin collectors, if verification is needed that I actually recorded these tapes.)


The question then begs: So, On how many other instances could Hoff be wrong, if on my work he is 100% dead wrong?



YOU THINK YOUR THE ONLY ONE WHO WAS RECORDING THOSE SHOWS
THEN THAT VERIFIES JUST HOW NAIVE YOU BE

freezer
2005-10-18, 12:44 PM
HO MOrt

GoOD TO HEER FROM YOU AGAIN. Oh, KING OF MISINFORMATION

SO WHERE"S ALL YOUR ALTERNATE ZAPPA SHOWS FROM BAToN ROOGUE????

DO THEY EXIST THIS WeeK OR NOT?

......

Mort/Ninja,

You make me laugh out loud.

Good to see you slithered out from under that rock...... :rolleyes:

alg
2005-10-18, 02:26 PM
YOU THINK YOUR THE ONLY ONE WHO WAS RECORDING THOSE SHOWS
THEN THAT VERIFIES JUST HOW NAIVE YOU BE

I don't do capitals mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm88888888888888

alg
2005-10-18, 02:33 PM
Not really...what I was pointing out is that the 'expert' mentioned was wrong about the shows I recorded.

I only recorded 4 Led Zep shows.

If I (who am not an expert on Led Zep) can see that this 'expert' is wrong just on the 4 shows I am positive about, the question obviously is, how many of his other entries are wrong?

Basically, that 'expert' is only expounding his own opinion, correct?

And we all know what opinions are like.......




Its been my experience that "experts" in bootlegs and live audience recordings and "ROIRs" are self proclaimed experts.

Ask a self-proclaimed expert if he's wrong?

What do you think he'll say....

Agreed. I guess I am expert in the shows I taped a 'lifetime ago' however not Zep which I regret. But there you go......the mistakes of youth :)

rockthing
2005-10-19, 03:54 AM
whoa, whoa, turn down the flames,

my wax is startin' to melt! :lol

So anybody have the 10 record set called 'Strange Tales From The Road'?
If you do I have a question about the last four sides.

alg
2005-10-19, 06:15 AM
whoa, whoa, turn down the flames,

my wax is startin' to melt! :lol

So anybody have the 10 record set called 'Strange Tales From The Road'?
If you do I have a question about the last four sides.

Back to sense again. Sorry I don't but curious re the question

Five
2005-10-19, 11:11 AM
whoa, whoa, turn down the flames,

my wax is startin' to melt! :lol

So anybody have the 10 record set called 'Strange Tales From The Road'?
If you do I have a question about the last four sides.
I used to have it but traded it away

somebody seeded a transfer of it on ezt a while back

Five
2005-12-10, 07:42 PM
More details as promised

Zeppelin over Europe 'eye thank yew' yellow printed front cover pics from 1980 tour of all band members
back cover b/w knebworth pics D.HIP 001 top R corner copyright happy hippo records miami japan (sic)
1 NFBM 2 BD 3 ITE 4RS 5HD 6AML 7TUF 8SIBLY 9ALS 10WS 11 KASH 12STH 13RR 14HB
Labels ii records swissair run out ZZYZX030/D 2 lp ONE SLEEVE

ZOSO 80 ? title 1980 TOUR NO OBVIOUS TITLE SEPIA TONE GATEFOLD pepso france run out ZM-278-ABCD made in france
1BD 2ITE 3RS 4 HD 5AML 6TUF 7SIBLY 8ALS 9WS 10KASH 11STH 12RR 13WLL

I have not played these for years but I am sure one or both kick off with Train kept even tho not listed

FBHO part 1 original masters reissue series 1981 sh-human vinyloids an oleg kirov presentation no label on disc run off BHI-SIDE 1 ETC
1 SA 2HFBM 3OTHAFA 4SIBLY 5TYG 6TBFE 7GTC 8BMS 9KASH 10TUF 11STH 12 WLL 13 RR WITH KEITH MOON

DESTROYER DRGM505 STEREO MADE IN USA DRGM505 run out
okay I finally got that info for ya... this is proof that it is time for me to buy a fucking scanner :lol

the stuff with ** is added by me to help describe the little pic in the book. the information varies a little across the three books I have that mention these boots. It seems that they're all reissues, and "eye thank yew" aka zeppelin over europe is perhaps the most rare and valuable.

From "The Illustrated Led Zeppelin Collection" by Robert Godwin (Canada April, 1984).

Destroyer

A European bootleg done from a sound board recording, thus no audience noise at all. By far the best of all the "Destroyers" available. The cover doesn't mention Black Country Woman. Released as DRGM #505. The cover is a red blue & black wrap around. Deluxe labels carrying the right date. The cover says Seattle Aug 77, but it is the first night in Cleveland 27th April 1977.

**cover is Jimmy with the doubleneck, head and shoulders visable. Above him is written "LED ZEPPELIN", below is "DESTROYER", all in the Physical Graffiti font.

Side 1.
Song Remains/Sick Again (9:52)
Nobody's Fault But Mine (6:25)

Side 2.
In My Time Of Dying (10:36)
Since I've Been Loving You (8:05)

Side 3.
No Quarter (19:20)

Side 4.
Ten Years Gone (8:43)
Battle Of Evermore (5:42)
Going To California (4:06)

Side 5.
Guitar Intro.Achilles Last Stand (19:30)

Side 6.
White Stummer/Black Mountain Side/Kashmir (13:15)
Stairway To Heaven (9:52)

Side 7.
Black Country Woman/Bron-y-Aur Stomp (6:45)
Rock & Roll (3:03)
Trampled Underfoot (6:26)

Side 8.
Out On The Tiles/Moby Dick (15:56)

Destroyer

The American alternative to the European bootleg "Destroyer".

Recorded on the same night but with audience noise. The cover was a large plastic carrying case which says recorded June 24th 1977 Cleveland. A re-issue with a yellow insert sleeve says Seattle August 77. It is in face Cleveland 27th April 1977.

Kashmir is abruptly interrupted with pieces of Stairway To Heaven.

Carries the same serial # as the European DRGM 505. Still very good stereo but no where near as good as the European version. The cover doesn't mention Black Country Woman. Same track listings as the European version.

**Cover is Jimmy visible from the knees up wearing his white suit playing his Les Paul & a cheesy outer-space background. Text says:

DRGM ENTERPRISES AND THE LED ZEPPELIN FAN CLUBS INTERNATIONAL
present
LED ZEPPELIN
DESTROYER
Unique Permanent Zeppelin Storage Case

Eye Thank Yew

A European re-issue of "Swiss Made".

Deluxe full colour sleeve. The pictures are from the book "In The Light" by Howard Mylett & Richard Bunton. Released on Happy Hippo records serial # D HIP 001. Cover says only 500 pressed.

The title is from a catch phrase used by Plant throughout the 1980 European tour.

For Badge Holders Only Part One

First released on Dragonfly records LZ1234. The original has labels that say "Ruthless Rhymes". An excellent stereo recording from 23rd June 1977 at the L.A. forum. Paper insert sleeve. Keith Moon does drum intros etc on Whole Lotta Love / Rock & Roll. The band destroys Kashmir & Page's guitar breaks down during Trampled Underfoot. Black Country Woman is not listed on the sleeve. Re-issued on OMRS 5472 with a blue black & white wrap around insert sleeve. Not from the original plates.

Side 1.
Sick Again (6:06)
Nobody's Fault But Mine (6:20)
Over The Hills & Far Away (6:24)
Black Country Woman (1:41)

Side 2.
Since I've Been Loving You (8:21)
Ten Years Gone (9:05)
Battle Of Evermore (4:44)

Side 3.
Going To California (5:12)
White Summer/Black Mountain Side/Kashmir (12:09)
Trampled Underfoot (6:51)

Side 4.
Stairway To Heaven (11:17)
Whole Lotta Love/Rock & Roll (5:38)

Swiss Made

Japanese bootleg recorded in Zurich Switzerland 29th June 1980. Deluxe green & white sleeve taken from the dust sleeve of "In Through The Out Door" Album. Good Stereo recording. Rare due to it being Japanese and the limited number pressed. The first album to appear of the 1980 tour. Released serial # S8006.

Side 1.
Nobody's Fault But Mine (5:12)
Black Dog (4:43)
In The Evening (7:49)
The Rain Song (7:09)

Side 2.
Hot Dog (3:00)
All My Love (5:24)
Trampled Underfoot (7:49)
Since I've Been Loving You (9:03)

Side 3.
Achilles Last Stand (8:52)
White Summer/Black Mountain Side (9:03)
Kashmir (10:03)

Side 4.
Stairway To Heaven (10:36)
Rock & Roll (3:18)
Heartbreaker (8:48)

Zoso '80

This one has no title on the cover. Song separation. European bootleg with a really nice deluxe brown & white gatefold sleeve.

Recorded on the first night in Mannheim, 2nd July 1980. Very Good stereo recording. The cover doesn't mention Train Kept a Rollin'. Serial # ZM 278. Deluxe lables listing the songs.

Side 1.
Black Dog (4:58)
In The Evening (7:06)
The Rain Song (6:36)
Hot Dog (3:01)

Side 2.
All My Love (5:05)
Trampled Underfoot (8:09)
Since I've Benn Loving You (8:33)
Train Kept A Rollin (2:51)

Side 3.
Achilles Last Stand (8:57)
White Summer/Black Mountain Side (8:40)
Kashmir (9:27)

Side 4.
Stairway To Heaven (7:04)
Rock & Roll (3:13)
Whole Lotta Love (6:38)

From The Illustrated Collectors Guide To Led Zeppelin (Revised Edition) by Robert Godwin (Canada, 1987)

Reference # 30
Title: Destroyer
Source: Cleveland
Date(s): 4/27/77
Cover: Wrap around glossy Blue Red & Black slcik
Labels: Deluxe DRGM
Quality: Excellent Stereo
Company: DRGM
Matrix # DRGM 505 1-8
Country Of Origin: European
Comments: Taken from a soundboard recording. This is by far the best of the various different "Destroyers". The cover says it is from Seattle August 77, however the labels have the correct date on them.

Side 1.
Song Remains-Sick Again (9:52)
Nobody's Fault But Mine (6:25)

Side 2.
In My Time Of Dying (10:36)
Since I've Been Loving You (8:05)

Side 3.
No Quarter (19:20)

Side 4.
Ten Years Gone (8:43)
Battle Of Evermore (5:42)
Going To California (4:06)

Side 5.
Achilles Last Stand (19:30)

Side 6.
White Stummer-Black Mountain Side-Kashmir (13:15)
Stairway To Heaven (9:52)

Side 7.
Black Country Woman-Bron-y-Aur Stomp (6:45)
Rock & Roll (3:03)
Trampled Underfoot (6:26)

Side 8.
Out On The Tiles-Moby Dick (15:56)

Reference # 31
Title: Destroyer
Source: Cleveland
Date(s): 4/27/77
Cover: Custom Plastic Carrying Case
Labels: Deluxe DRGM
Quality: Very Good Stereo
Company: DRGM
Matrix # DRGM 505 A-H
Country Of Origin: U.S.A.
Comments: This is the American alternative to the European "Destroyer". Recorded the same night but with audience noise. The original came in a very nice carrying case. Later re-issued without the case, & then subsequently with a yellow & red slick. Also available as a very limited pressing on colored vinyl.

Comes with the same Matrix # as the European version but it is not from the same plates. Although this is a nicer package, it is inferior to the European original. The cover does not mention "Black Country Woman".

Side 1.
Song Remains-Sick Again (9:52)
Nobody's Fault But Mine (6:25)

Side 2.
In My Time Of Dying (10:36)
Since I've Been Loving You (8:05)

Side 3.
No Quarter (19:20)

Side 4.
Ten Years Gone (8:43)
Battle Of Evermore (5:42)
Going To California (4:06)

Side 5.
Achilles Last Stand (19:30)

Side 6.
White Stummer-Black Mountain Side-Kashmir (13:15)
Stairway To Heaven (9:52)

Side 7.
Black Country Woman-Bron-y-Aur Stomp (6:45)
Rock & Roll (3:03)
Trampled Underfoot (6:26)

Side 8.
Out On The Tiles-Moby Dick (15:56)


Reference # 42
Title: Eye Thank Yew
Source: Re-issue of "Swiss Made"
Date(s): 6/29/80
Cover: 4 color front, b&w back
Labels: 11 Records
Quality: Good Stereo
Company: Happy Hippo
Matrix # ZZYZX 030A-D
Country Of Origin: Germany
Comments: The cover says only 500 made.

Reference # 43
Title: Eye Thank Yew
Source: New York
Date(s): 7/27/73
Cover: 4 color deluxe front, black & white back
Lables: Plain White
Quality: Excellent Stereo
Company: Happy Hippo
Matrix # LZ-A1-2
Country Of Origin: Germany
Comments: This is all material taken from the movie "Song Remains The Same". The jacket is exactly the same as the double "Eye Thank Yew" except for a sticker over the song titles on the back.

Side 1.
Bron-y-Aur (0:57)
Black Dog (3:41)
Since I've Been Loving You (8:13)
Stairway To Heaven (10:58)

Side 2.
Dazed & Confused (27:53)

Reference # 52
Title: For Badge Holders Only
Source: L.A. Forum
Date(s): 6/23/77
Cover: Slick
Labels: Ruthless Rhymes
Quality: Excellent Stereo
Company: Dragonfly
Matrix # RE ONE TWO THREE FOUR
Country Of Origin: U.S.A.
Comments: Keith Moon does a guest appearance on "Whole Lotta Love-Rock & Roll". "Black Country Woman" is not listed on the cover. Re-issued as a limited edition of 100 numbered copies on colored vinyl as part of the LXXXIV series. Also re-issued by Original Masters Re-issue Series with the matrix # BH1 1-4, not the original plates, this had a blue black & white wrap around slick.

Side 1.
Sick Again (6:06)
Nobody's Fault But Mine (6:20)
Over The Hills & Far Away (6:24)
Black Country Woman (1:41)

Side 2.
Since I've Been Loving You (8:21)
Ten Years Gone (9:05)
Battle Of Evermore (4:44)

Side 3.
Going To California (5:12)
White Summer-Black Mountain Side-Kashmir (12:09)
Trampled Underfoot (6:51)

Side 4.
Stairway To Heaven (11:17)
Whole Lotta Love/Rock & Roll (5:38)

Reference # 183
Title: Swiss Made
Source: Zurich Switzerland
Date(s): 6/29/80
Cover: Deluxe green & white
Labels: Plain white
Quality: Good Stereo
Company:
Matrix # S 8006A-D
Country Of Origin: Japan
Comments: This is the first album to be released of the 1980 tour. There is no company logo or name. This is quite rare.

Side 1.
Nobody's Fault But Mine (5:12)
Black Dog (4:43)
In The Evening (7:49)
The Rain Song (7:09)

Side 2.
Hot Dog (3:00)
All My Love (5:24)
Trampled Underfoot (7:49)
Since I've Been Loving You (9:03)

Side 3.
Achilles Last Stand (8:52)
White Summer-Black Mountain Side-Kashmir (19:06)

Side 4.
Stairway To Heaven (10:36)
Rock & Roll (3:18)
Heartbreaker (8:48)

Reference # 206
Title: Zoso 80
Source: Mannheim
Date(s): 7/2/80
Cover: Deluxe brown & white Gatefold
Lables: Deluxe
Quality: Very Good Stereo
Company: Pepso
Matrix # ZM 278A-D
Country Of Origin: Europe
Comments: This has no title on the cover. Song separation. Nice gatefold sleeve. The cover doesn't mention "Train Kept A Rollin".

Side 1.
Black Dog (4:58)
In The Evening (7:06)
The Rain Song (6:36)
Hot Dog (3:01)

Side 2.
All My Love (5:05)
Trampled Underfoot (8:09)
Since I've Benn Loving You (8:33)
Train Kept A Rollin (2:51)

Side 3.
Achilles Last Stand (8:57)
White Summer-Black Mountain Side-Kashmir (9:27)

Side 4.
Stairway To Heaven (7:04)
Rock & Roll (3:13)
Whole Lotta Love (6:38)

Hot Wacks Book XV "The Last Wacks" by Robert Walker (Canada, 1995)

R = Recording: Ex = excellent, Vg = very good, G = good, s = stereo, m = mono.

S = Source.

C = Comments: Eb = European bootleg, Dcc = Deluxe color cover, Dbw = deluxe black & white cover, GF = gatefold, DL = deluxe label, CV = colored vinyl, MCV = multi-colored vinyl, SS = song separation.

Destroyer
DRGM 505
S1: Song Remains The Same/Sick Again/Nobodys Fault But Mine
S2: In My Time Of Dying/Since I've Been Loving You
S3: No Quarter
S4: Ten Years Gone/Battle Of Evermore/Going To California
S5: Guitar Solo/Achilles Last Stand
S6: White Stummer/Black Mountain/Kashmir/Stairway To Heaven
S7: Bron-y-Aur Stomp/Rock & Roll/Trampled Underfoot
S8: Out On The Tiles/Moby Dick
R: Exs. S: Cleveland Apr. 27 '77. C: Deluxe blue & red box set from the UK. Cover incorrectly gives date as Seattle Aug. '77. U.S. copy called 'Sweet Jelly Roll' (RSR 42777) with a Dcc released in '87. 'Destroyer' 2 CD sets minus S8 released by Archive Productions in '89 & The Swingin' Pig in '90. Dcc & insert book. Exs.

Destroyer
DRGM 505
R: Vgs. S: Cleveland Apr. 27 '77. C: US version of 'Destroyer' (DRGM 505). Not from same plates despite same matrix number. Available as a box set or with a unique plastic carrying case which holds the box set.

For Badge Holders Only
Dragonfly Recs. LZ1234
S1: Sick Again/Nobody's Fault But Mine/Over The Hills & Far Away
S2: Since I've Been Loving You/Ten Years Gone/The Battle Of Evermore
S3: Going To California/Black Mountain Side/Kashmir/Trampled Under Foot
S4: Stairway To Heaven/Medley: Whole Lotta Love/Rock 'N' Roll*
R: Exs. S: L.A.Forum June 23 '77. C. (*) intro and drums - Keith Moon. Rereleased from original plates with a Dcc. Part of 'The Final Option'.

For Badge Holders Only Part 1
OMRS5472D
R. Exm, crackles. C: Copy of 'For Badge Holders Only' (Dragonfly Recs.).

For Badge Holders Only
LXXXIV Series #13
C: Rerelease of 'For Badge Holders Only' on pink & MCV discs. Approx. 100 numbered copies.

Swiss Made
S8006
S1: Nobody's Fault But Mine/Black Dog/In The Evening/The Rain Song
S2: Hot Dog/All My Love/Trampled uner Foot/Since I've Been Loving You
S3: Achilles Last Stand/White Summer/Black Mountain Side/Kashmir
S4: Stairway To Heaven/Rock & Roll/Heartbreaker
R: Gm. S: Zurich, Switzerland June 29 '80. C: Japanese. Dbw.

Zeppelin Over Europe
Happy Hippo Records D. HIP 001
S1: Instrumental/black Dog/Since I've Been Loving You/Stairway To Heaven
S2: Dazed & Confused
R: Exs. C: Eb with a Dcc. 500 made. SS.

Zoso '80
ZM-278
S1: Black Dog/In The Evening/The Rain Song/Hot Dog
S2: All My Love/Trampled Under Foot/Since I've Been Loving You
S3: Achilles Last Stand/White Summer/Kashmir
S4: Stairway To Heaven/Rock & Roll/Whole Lotta Love
R: Exs. S: Mannheim July 2 '80 C: Eb. Deluxe brown & white cover. SS.

alg
2005-12-12, 04:09 AM
Only one answer Eye Thank Yew :)