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Kush
2004-12-04, 10:17 PM
I know there are two forms of matrices out there. One that is mixed in live time and another done after the show at home. I was wondering if there was a different way of naming them since technically they are different?

U2Lynne
2004-12-05, 12:20 AM
For our naming purposes, we are putting them in the same category (same icon). However, in the text file, it should definitely explain what exactly is being shared.

wazoo2u
2004-12-05, 11:22 AM
There are several ways to achieve a "matrix" mix, almost all of them inaccurately named, as a true matrix mix is derived from a physically aligned pair of cardiod microphones that are decoded at the mixing board (preamp) before they are recorded.

In reality, the combination of a Soundboard and Audience source of the same show should be technically considered a "blend", since the origination sources are not aligned in time or necessarily, in phase.

In addition, if an analog audience source is re-syncronized to a soundboard source after the fact, it may not run at the same speed/pitch as the SBD, making their recombination a potentially excruciating process.

There are a whole bunch of other issues that arise when discussing these type of recordings, mostly involving the physics of sound and how it travels through the air and everything else that affects the reproduction of physical sound, up to and INCLUDING the weather conditions, both indoor and outdoor at the time of the gig. (I kid you not).

eburks
2004-12-07, 12:36 AM
Just a little FYI

The reason (that I know of) we have many sbd + audience recordings called matrix mixes is because Dan Healey (gdead) called his mixes matrix mixes and acomplished them as follows in the 1984-1989 timeframe

Using a beta recorder with beta HI-FI sound and a PCM-F1 digital encoder he did the following (or variations of)

he put the Soundboard into the F1 which fed the video track and he put the microphone (which was usually located dead center in front of the board and delayed, into the beta HI-FI audio track. Usually was a single point stereo mic... can't remember a model; in 1987 and 1988 an AKG (212??? 412???)

So... post show he could take a cassette and record the show onto it with the level between audience and SBD adjusted as he preferred

I don't know who to attribute the word ultramix and ultramatrix to as these were both used in dead trader circles probably in reference to ultrasound a label for their sound system during that period (crest amps, gamble board, meyer sound lab speakers, active feedback and a host of other items

eburks
2004-12-07, 12:52 AM
oops I meant delay the SBD input

He also had a little weather station at the board sometimes to help define those conditions he was adjusting for


Just a little FYI

The reason (that I know of) we have many sbd + audience recordings called matrix mixes is because Dan Healey (gdead) called his mixes matrix mixes and acomplished them as follows in the 1984-1989 timeframe

Using a beta recorder with beta HI-FI sound and a PCM-F1 digital encoder he did the following (or variations of)

he put the Soundboard into the F1 which fed the video track and he put the microphone (which was usually located dead center in front of the board and delayed, into the beta HI-FI audio track. Usually was a single point stereo mic... can't remember a model; in 1987 and 1988 an AKG (212??? 412???)

So... post show he could take a cassette and record the show onto it with the level between audience and SBD adjusted as he preferred

I don't know who to attribute the word ultramix and ultramatrix to as these were both used in dead trader circles probably in reference to ultrasound a label for their sound system during that period (crest amps, gamble board, meyer sound lab speakers, active feedback and a host of other items

wazoo2u
2004-12-07, 07:38 AM
Just a little FYI

The reason (that I know of) we have many sbd + audience recordings called matrix mixes is because Dan Healey (gdead) called his mixes matrix mix
This is correct. I'm sure (as brilliant as Healy is) that he had a reason to call these matrix recordings. There's probably an article floating around that describes the technique. Unfortunately, he muddled the issue because the term is normally reserved for M-S (mid-side) encoded recordings. OTOH, there's a huge difference between a time-aligned blend, and an after the fact combination of random mic and desk recordings.

Kush
2004-12-07, 02:23 PM
<So... post show he could take a cassette and record the show onto it with the level between audience and SBD adjusted as he preferred >

I always thought Healy did these in real time on a slight delay. You can hear him playing around with the fader to set the audience levels during the songs. If it was done after show wouldn't he have just set them and left them go?

eburks
2004-12-08, 12:41 AM
sometimes yes ... sometimes no; we are talking about hundreds of recordings. There are mixes that were broadcast and mixes that were traded and there were "ticket office mixes' for the folks in the trenches that missed the showcause they needed to work. Some of the stuff in circulation is just what he fiddled it to be when he put it on to cassette... and Dan was not the only one with access to his masters :-)

Some 85 SBD's in circulation are TERRIBLY dry; nothing but SBD and that is probably recorded from a patch at the show. The May 5, 6 ,1989 frost amphitheater shows were broadcast and have an outragously rich mic blend that could be from the pre-FM or might be a healy postmix (and they just might have had access to DAT at that time but I think that was later in the year)


<So... post show he could take a cassette and record the show onto it with the level between audience and SBD adjusted as he preferred >

I always thought Healy did these in real time on a slight delay. You can hear him playing around with the fader to set the audience levels during the songs. If it was done after show wouldn't he have just set them and left them go?