Lossy or lossless? Any opinions?

[Sabbathomaniac]

Hi again!
I noticed that you people are really helpful in determining lossiness vs losslessness, so here's another recording that is controversial: Black Sabbath live in Pittsburgh in 1978. It is Pre-FM or SBD. Actually I have two versions of this recording - one claims to be a clone of the master tape, one comes without any lineage info. Both look a bit different, So here I uploading spectral & frequency pics of both, the 'Master clone' and the 'Different version'. Any opinions are welcome!
Thanks and best,
Linda

[Luke_of_Mass]

looks more post-fm from your pics

[Sabbathomaniac]

looks more post-fm from your pics

Thanks for the response! I assume that "post-FM" means: lossy-sourced?

[tonebloke]

Considering the year this was recorded it's not lossy based. More than likely the equipment used at the time.

[Sabbathomaniac]

Considering the year this was recorded it's not lossy based. More than likely the equipment used at the time.

Thanks!!!

[Sabbathomaniac]

Years later, and with further information gathered, I am now fairly sure that this is sourced from the MP3 320K files on Wolfgang's Vault.

[magoo666]

Hi, could anyone help me determine if this is lossy or lossless?

https://i.ibb.co/SrPQrBg/Capture-d-cran-2020-04-05-12-02-46.png (https://ibb.co/SrPQrBg) https://i.ibb.co/cxNSSg9/Capture-d-cran-2020-04-05-12-03-05.png (https://ibb.co/cxNSSg9)

[pawel]

Can be anything of TV, FM or DAB imo. When it was broadcast?

[magoo666]

Can be anything of TV, FM or DAB imo. When it was broadcast?

Its from a 2000 audience recording, not sure of exact equipment used.

[pawel]

Then maybe this: http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8003

[magoo666]

Then maybe this: http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8003
Yeah I did wonder about minidisc but I only know of DAT sources for this concert.
It could be that it has gone wav>mp3>wav

[pawel]

It's hard to determine if high quality mp3 like 320 kbps was used

[Sabbathomaniac]

Hi, could anyone help me determine if this is lossy or lossless?

https://i.ibb.co/SrPQrBg/Capture-d-cran-2020-04-05-12-02-46.png (https://ibb.co/SrPQrBg) https://i.ibb.co/cxNSSg9/Capture-d-cran-2020-04-05-12-03-05.png (https://ibb.co/cxNSSg9)

IMO it looks like it was either denoised or from lossy codec.

[magoo666]

Ok folks, thanks for the help

[Five]

not denoised, it is lossy for sure

not certain what codec

[magoo666]

Hi, wonder if anyone can help determine if this is minidisc or DAT sourced?
Thanks

https://i.ibb.co/XWf8pT1/Image1.jpg

[Sabbathomaniac]

Hi, wonder if anyone can help determine if this is minidisc or DAT sourced?
Thanks

https://i.ibb.co/XWf8pT1/Image1.jpg

it is hard to say (for me, anyway) based on these pics, since the spectreal screenshots only show up to 8kHz which is usually way below the cutoff if there is any cutoff - we need to see everything up to 22.05 kHz (or 24 kHz respectively, and in this frequency analysis I don't see the kHz value. Any chance that you share a short (2 seconds would be enough) flac audio sample instead?
it also depends on the sample rate of the dat. a dat with a 32kHz sample rate will appear lossy (and actually IS lossy, in a way, because 32kHz is substandard now), and i would probably not be able to tell the difference from minidisc or mp3. a dat recording at 48 kHz, however, would be perfectly lossless.

[magoo666]

Hi, thanks for your reply, here's a sample if that helps

[Sabbathomaniac]

Hi, thanks for your reply, here's a sample if that helps
Thanks, yes, this helps. This is not an exact science, but here's my 2 cents:
If I didn't know anything about this recording, I would say it has to be either lossy-sourced or crudely denoised. That's what the "lego block" pattern at the border of the colored and the black areas in the attached screenshot tells us. If you know that this is either from DAT or from MiniDisc and that it hasn't been denoised, I am 99% sure it is from MiniDisc.

[magoo666]

Thanks, yes, this helps. This is not an exact science, but here's my 2 cents:
If I didn't know anything about this recording, I would say it has to be either lossy-sourced or crudely denoised. That's what the "lego block" pattern at the border of the colored and the black areas in the attached screenshot tells us. If you know that this is either from DAT or from MiniDisc and that it hasn't been denoised, I am 99% sure it is from MiniDisc.

Ok that's great, thanks for your help :thumbsup. I was told it was DAT0 but had suspicions that it may be from a md source instead.

[Five]

I agree it is MD. scroll down this thread (http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8003).