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Lossy or Lossless? Please use this forum to post spectral and frequency analysis posts about shows you have your doubts about.

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  #16  
Old 2005-07-02, 10:44 AM
ffooky ffooky is offline
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Re: Not sure if its lossy...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five
there's some very similar looking SAs posted here:
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/...ead.php?t=4332

I still can't find the thread with the Hendrix show I keep talking about. Maybe we talked about it at TOTM or something. But there's some FA and SA for a Blind Melon show that I got pulled from EZT where it had this lego skyscraper pattern pretty much identical to the SA we're seeing posted in this thread. I have the original legoless version of that melon show and the SA doesn't have that!
Dead right about the Blind Melon being the same as this.

So is the consensus that stairs in the FA/Skyscrapers in the SA=Minidisc ? Sounds feasible to me but what I'd really like is for someone to take a 100% kosher file and replicate those features with minidisc.
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  #17  
Old 2005-07-02, 09:59 PM
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Re: Not sure if its lossy...

well I don't think it's MD I think it's high bitrate cbr mp3. but we all agree that it is lossy as f*ck.
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  #18  
Old 2005-07-02, 10:59 PM
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Re: Not sure if its lossy...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tate
Hmmm, so stairstep/skyscraper doesn't always equal lossy??
As of yet I am quite confident that it's safe to say that stairstep/skyscraper implies lossy. However the reverse (lossy implies stairstep) is not always the case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ffooky
So is the consensus that stairs in the FA/Skyscrapers in the SA=Minidisc ?
The exact kind of skyscrapers presented in this thread seems to imply MD source. However, MD sources do not always look like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five
well I don't think it's MD I think it's high bitrate cbr mp3.
Well I don't think it's high bitrate cbr mp3, I'm pretty sure it's MiniDisc. (I'm referring to pics posted in this thread. If you're referring to something else, sorry, I'm way too tired to read properly now -_-)
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  #19  
Old 2005-07-03, 12:19 AM
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Re: Not sure if its lossy...

oops I meant high bitrate vbr. I know you hate hearing that but it's my opinion. I'm gonna try to figure out how to get that lossy signature and post it up.
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  #20  
Old 2005-07-03, 05:14 AM
ffooky ffooky is offline
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Re: Not sure if its lossy...

Does anyone know how Shorten's lossy coding affects things (the second type described here <http://mi.eng.cam.ac.uk/reports/ajr/TR156/node7.html#SECTION00040000000000000000>) ?

I've never managed to get anything approaching the twin characteristics here from any MP3 encoder or AAC and I must say I've never seen them in anything with MD stated in the lineage.

Just an idea.
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  #21  
Old 2005-07-03, 04:29 PM
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Re: Not sure if its lossy...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five
oops I meant high bitrate vbr. I know you hate hearing that but it's my opinion.
Same difference. I'm going to say it over and over again and again, it's generally not possible to tell vbr from cbr just by looking at the spectrum of an mp3 file.

Anyway, the pics presented here are neither vbr nor cbr mp3, they're MD.
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  #22  
Old 2005-07-03, 05:49 PM
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Re: Not sure if its lossy...

doesn't look like any MD signature I've ever seen. if you can up a sample that looks anything like this (or the bmelon) that is sourced from MD I would be shocked to see it. where can I get this sample? nowhere.
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  #23  
Old 2005-07-03, 09:46 PM
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Re: Not sure if its lossy...

This is very interesting reading all your comments. Whenever you think you got no more to learn about detecting lossy sources, there's always something to discover. Thanks for the help. Keep on discussing....
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  #24  
Old 2005-07-05, 04:27 PM
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Re: Not sure if its lossy...

Looks like Atrac Type R.
Sample is from Hydrogen Audios Listening Test Forum.

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  #25  
Old 2005-07-05, 05:12 PM
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Re: Not sure if its lossy...

well, there it is I was wrong.

I just couldn't accept the fact that somebody out there is archiving to MD and then converting back to FLAC. it just seemed too far-fetched but it is true.

range_hood, is it okay if we make Minidisc atrac3 LP2/LP4 spectrals into a more generic MiniDisc SA and FA and add this pic?
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  #26  
Old 2005-07-05, 07:33 PM
ffooky ffooky is offline
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Re: Not sure if its lossy...

Where are the steps in the FA and the corresponding bands in the SA ?
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  #27  
Old 2005-07-05, 07:58 PM
ffooky ffooky is offline
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Re: Not sure if its lossy...

OK, here they are
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Picture 4.pdf
( 519.1 KB, 9 views)
 
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  #28  
Old 2005-07-05, 08:54 PM
Tate Tate is offline
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Re: Not sure if its lossy...

OK, now I'm a bit confused Since I've never heard of Atrac Type R..... is this a legit format? Have shows been recorded often under that format? (cause I haven't come across these stairsteps/skyscrapers very often..)

Is it an acceptable "lossy" format like MD?
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  #29  
Old 2005-07-06, 04:01 AM
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Re: Not sure if its lossy...

Atrac Type R is one possible codec used by MD (right?). MD is "acceptable" when it is the master source, meaning that a minidisc was recorded at a live show either from mics or sbd not from radio and most certainly not after a CDR/DAT/FLAC/whatever.

e.g.

Mics > MD > EMU0404 > Audacity > FLAC = okay

Mics > DAT(m) > MD(0) > CDR(2) > EAC > FLAC = not okay!

so unless your show was actually recorded using minidisc (highly highly doubtful) it is not a good source for trading.
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  #30  
Old 2005-07-06, 05:13 AM
Tate Tate is offline
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Re: Not sure if its lossy...

OK OK, now I get it. So the bootleg I have was most likely archived on MD... that sucks, the way I see it, that's pretty much the same as converting to MP3

Thanks for the explination.
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