The Traders' Den  

  The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble > Lossy or Lossless?
 

Notices

Lossy or Lossless? Please use this forum to post spectral and frequency analysis posts about shows you have your doubts about.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #31  
Old 2004-11-25, 10:19 PM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: Is this mp3 sourced?

That jives with what I've seen so far, anyways.

btw I was referring to the "MP3 file with a similar spectrogram profile" that Dr. Bob was using as an example. A little off-topic, I know.
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #32  
Old 2004-11-25, 10:27 PM
Rider's Avatar
Rider Rider is offline
11.76 GB/25.98 GB/2.21
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Re: Is this mp3 sourced?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five
That jives with what I've seen so far, anyways.

btw I was referring to the "MP3 file with a similar spectrogram profile" that Dr. Bob was using as an example. A little off-topic, I know.
K so many people going off on tangents it's hard to keep up.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #33  
Old 2004-11-25, 11:06 PM
Doctor Bob Gordon's Avatar
Doctor Bob Gordon Doctor Bob Gordon is offline
114.29 GB/46.28 GB/0.40
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: undisclosed location
Re: Is this mp3 sourced?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rider
K so many people going off on tangents it's hard to keep up.
Someone asked if his lossless files are MP3 sourced, based on spectral and frequency analysis. I just tried to help, I said I believe the screen caps are from a lossy-sourced file (MD use lossy compression) but I added that sometines spectral and frequency analysis are not conclusive, and I included some caps from a MP3 file, that doesn't have the usual cut on the highs. That's all. I can't see how I'm "going off on tangents"...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five
this must be high bitrate. I'd like to see a SA zoomed in to 1.5 seconds if you could...
Yes it's a 320kbps file (I'm not sure about the encoder). Sometimes MP3 don't look too much like MP3.

dBG
Attached Images
File Type: jpg mp3.jpg
( 414.1 KB, 68 views)
 

Last edited by Doctor Bob Gordon; 2004-11-25 at 11:12 PM.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #34  
Old 2004-11-26, 12:08 AM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: Is this mp3 sourced?

hmm... at the higher bitrates, it sure it more difficult to tell. This segment you've posted the pic of has hardly any audio in it at all. With lossy sources I can always seem to find the distinctive "blocks" in the SA when I zoom in, perhaps thanks in part to some settings I changed as per ssamadhi97's advice way back when. I'll post those recommended settings for CEP/Audition up here once I find them (or perhaps ssamadhi97 will drop by and post them before that).

Anyhow, it seems that every one of these "is this mp3" threads goes off into the discussion of "it's hard to tell anything for certain" which is a fact, but this doesn't stop us from mining the data that is available.

Now with the case in point, I have procured a ten second sample.

SA of the full 10 seconds:
Attached Images
File Type: gif 5sa10seconds.gif
( 355.7 KB, 66 views)
 
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #35  
Old 2004-11-26, 12:12 AM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: Is this mp3 sourced?

What we can tell so far is that this is not cbr mp3-sourced, since the "black" at the top doesn't appear as a straight line.

What can also be gathered is that this is a lossy source of some kind, due to the appearance of "blocks" in the closeups.
Attached Images
File Type: gif 5sa1.gif
( 334.2 KB, 14 views)
 
File Type: gif 5sa2.gif
( 315.1 KB, 11 views)
 
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #36  
Old 2004-11-26, 12:15 AM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: Is this mp3 sourced?

also, the FA looks great, except when you hover over the last section of this sample a steep drop-off just below 13kHz can be seen:
Attached Images
File Type: gif 5fa1.gif
( 29.1 KB, 65 views)
 
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #37  
Old 2004-11-26, 12:24 AM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: Is this mp3 sourced?

This file has the "lego" look of an MD source. It also slightly resembles VBR mp3, but all the VBR mp3-sourced stuff I've analyzed has had smaller "blocks" visible where there's transients.

So, from my best analysis & gut feeling, I'd call this MD-sourced (like Rider said).

This portion particularly resembles another MD-sourced show I have on my drive:
Attached Images
File Type: gif 5sa3lego.gif
( 331.4 KB, 65 views)
 
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #38  
Old 2004-11-26, 12:26 AM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: Is this mp3 sourced?

...and last time I checked, shows recorded on MD are acceptable to be seeded at TTD (somebody correct me if I'm wrong)
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #39  
Old 2004-11-26, 12:31 AM
Punkishlyevil Punkishlyevil is offline
30.63 GB/42.38 GB/1.38
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Shorewood, Wisconsin, USA
Re: Is this mp3 sourced?

MD makes sense because on www.SPFC.org the hideout shows were recorded with an MD. But what doesn't make sense still is how this got out. Quinto never released flacs, and it was always in MP3 before.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #40  
Old 2004-11-26, 12:41 AM
Rider's Avatar
Rider Rider is offline
11.76 GB/25.98 GB/2.21
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Re: Is this mp3 sourced?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Punkishlyevil
MD makes sense because on www.SPFC.org the hideout shows were recorded with an MD. But what doesn't make sense still is how this got out. Quinto never released flacs, and it was always in MP3 before.
One Frank said he was going to put it out if he coudl find the masters. Two if you think Frank has never given this stuff to other people you are crazy.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #41  
Old 2004-11-26, 12:44 AM
Punkishlyevil Punkishlyevil is offline
30.63 GB/42.38 GB/1.38
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Shorewood, Wisconsin, USA
Re: Is this mp3 sourced?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rider
One Frank said he was going to put it out if he coudl find the masters. Two if you think Frank has never given this stuff to other people you are crazy.
Yeah I know he said he would put up the masters, but according to what he said in the hub, he didn't.

From the hub:

[09:18 PM] Quinto> i haven't gotten around to make a lossless version of hideout comp 2 yet
[09:18 PM] Quinto> i haven't had time. i've been soooooo busy
[09:19 PM] Quinto> so i don't know where the lossless version thats on the hub is from. but it's not from me.
[09:19 PM] Quinto> and i didn't give the flacs to anybody

The < in front of his username had to be taken out, because when they were in it didn't appear to show the username
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #42  
Old 2004-11-26, 12:52 AM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: Is this mp3 sourced?

Somebody got the mp3 version of this show? A direct comparison could help at this point
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #43  
Old 2004-11-26, 12:52 AM
Punkishlyevil Punkishlyevil is offline
30.63 GB/42.38 GB/1.38
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Shorewood, Wisconsin, USA
Re: Is this mp3 sourced?

Yeah I got it. Should I email you a clip of an mp3 or the whole song?
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #44  
Old 2004-11-26, 12:54 AM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: Is this mp3 sourced?

If you could email me the track that the last clip came from that would be cool.
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #45  
Old 2004-11-26, 12:57 AM
cid92's Avatar
cid92 cid92 is offline
16.80 GB/3.73 GB/0.22
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Near Chicago
Re: Is this mp3 sourced?

As of right now I am going to get Hideout II unshared from the hub until a definitive answer can be given. I've looked at some of this through WaveLab and the unpacked FLAC version and the MP3 version are very, very similar.

Also, since Frank has come out and said he didn't release this in lossless, the current "lossless" version on the hub is more than likely converted MP3 files.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
Reply

The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble > Lossy or Lossless?

Similar Threads
Thread Forum Replies Last Post
mp3 or MD sourced? - mrright Lossy or Lossless? 8 2006-06-22 11:22 AM
Is it VCD sourced DVD - Tutanchamon Lossy or Lossless? 2 2006-06-17 07:36 PM
how do you tell if a dvd is vcd sourced? - kidrocklive Technobabble 5 2006-05-08 11:57 AM
Is This Mp3 Sourced ? - mort Lossy or Lossless? 10 2005-10-24 08:20 AM
lossy-sourced or not? - pandora18 Lossy or Lossless? 9 2005-05-04 12:55 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forums


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:46 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - , TheTradersDen.org - All Rights Reserved - Hosted at QuickPacket
no new posts