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  #91  
Old 2010-08-10, 11:13 PM
sabkisscrue sabkisscrue is offline
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Re: TTD Staff: Why don't you follow your own rules?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rspencer View Post
I hold no delusions of grandeur just because I own a recorder & know how to use it.

This discussion is moot anyway. The policy is posted. If it's to be changed, it will be Lynne's decision to change it. Prior to a change such as that, she'll likely discuss it with the mods. And since roughly 0% of the mods (who include a number of tapers) are against the policy, it's not likely to change.
It isnt a moot discussion. To see those who should be on the side of the tapers/filmers and who should have the most respect for those who provide the material that is uploaded onto this site, to see them so very anti-bootleg, anti-taper/filmer and copping out of their duties, its fascinating.

But also if Lynne is willing to change the policy, id enforce it myself.

Also as far as "delusions of grandeur" this has to do with ones own recording, not ones ego.

Last edited by sabkisscrue; 2010-08-10 at 11:21 PM.
  #92  
Old 2010-08-10, 11:37 PM
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Re: TTD Staff: Why don't you follow your own rules?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sabkisscrue View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskg View Post
yada yada yada.
.........

I gotta say this, dont bite the hand that feeds you. Tapers are what provide not just TTD but the entire trading and downloading community the material that we have. Be on the side of them. I dont care whether you are a Mod or a downloader, have some respect for those who bust their asses and deserve more respect than they are getting
especially from the people who have posted in this thread.
My friend, you are pissing in the wind -- should you continue this 'arguement'; does the term "taper-unfriendly" mean anything to you?

Not only are some bands "taper-unfriendly" but many sites like this one can be incredibly "taper unfriendly", thanks to the SOME people chosen to moderate, and their style of moderating.

Biting the hand that feeds you? The hallmark of this hobby since Bram Cohen crawled out of his closet is just that, chomping hard on the hand is more like it.

I understand both sides of the debate, and I can see that both sides wouldn't know the term "courtesy" if it was tattooed on their frigging foreheads.


Could the torrent have been taken down?


Sure, and done quietly, with a pm to the seeder about courtesy,
nobody would have had this wonderful debate to take sides on....

Could FM99 have just said to himself, screw it, live and learn
....

sure he could, and known what NOT to do in the future



And I'm not saying that any of the TTD mods responding in this thread are doing anything less than their "sworn duty"....

Not a one of 'em has done anything less than what was expected of 'em....

Could be they discussed the subject in private, so they could all be on the same page? You bet'chum, Red Ryder. And they've done a great job of trying to explain the site's viewpoint, whether it was stridently, or with an eye to smoothing over ANY ruffled feathers.



Realize that ol' FM99 had lost the arguement long before he began it. In fact, his arguement isn't with TTD or the staff, his problem is with the person he gave it to, whether that be Carina or someone else.

FM99's best bet would be to beat the living crap out of whomever disrespected his wishes, bust a kneecap or two and permanently disable the cocksucker.... although that might open a new can of worms. probably dealing with laws and lawyers and jail time, but I'll bet ya, after that nobody would disrespect his wishes... and if made public, especially all over the internet, it might even make one or two assclown think twice.

Unless ol' FM99 has figured it out and gives nothing away ever again. Which is his perrogative.


I think we'd all find that funny, no matter which side of this debate we favor.
To hear of some taper beating the living fuck out of someone who asked for it by disrespecting his wishes, no matter who owns the music copyrights, yeah, we'd all laugh at that.



__________________________________________________________


Truthfully, the best way not to have a clandestine recording circulate in any way is to not let ANY copies out.

There are ways to curb circulation, but most "modern" collectors don't give a rat's ass about anything except their own greed, many of 'em download stuff they'll never listen to, just because they can. Some of 'em have more music downloaded then they'll ever be able to listen to in their lives and still wanna suck down more.....

You have been given some absolutely great advice (rspencer) and some self-serving advice in this thread by people who wouldn't deign to ever do any recording.

Time to let go, my friend, because you ain't gonna win. You are pissing in the wind, trying to convince someone with entitlement issues about biting the hand.


There are things you can do that will make you feel better about the numerous greed-heads out there, sabotaging a recording before putting it in circulation, but in the long run it isn't gonna matter...

There are dozens of idiots who live for those sort of recordings because then they get to REMASTER and slap their names on 'em.

Also, never forget that there are ten times that many idiots who enjoy lying about lineage anyway.

The hobby is fueled by entitlement and that ain't gonna change no more, no more no more, so Hit The Road Jack, Your recording belongs to them now.


ENTITLEMENT.... go back and read some of the replies you got, and see if that isn't what the motivation is.


ENTITLEMENT.....sometimes known as biting the hand that feeds you........

__________________
Quote:
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I don't think I troll anyone, other than freezer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by U2Lynne View Post
You wall-eyed apple-knocking pig-fuckers! You don't know shit!

Last edited by freezer; 2010-08-10 at 11:43 PM. Reason: adding the word ENTITLEMENT a few more times to drive the point home
  #93  
Old 2010-08-11, 12:18 AM
sabkisscrue sabkisscrue is offline
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Re: TTD Staff: Why don't you follow your own rules?

Good post. Courtesy and entitlement. I like that guy.
  #94  
Old 2010-08-11, 12:59 AM
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Re: Generation Question - Master or 1st Gen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rspencer View Post
A ............

And that's that. If the lowest circulating copy is 5th generation, it is not a master. Not even if all earlier gens no longer exist. It's a 5th gen copy of a show in which lower gens don't exist, nothing more.

.............
My dear young friend,

You are ABSOLUTELY never going to be a low-gen Led Zeppelin collector...



Have you never heard the term...."THAT WHICH PASSES FOR THE MASTER"....?

A Led Zep low-gen collector in Burbank coined that one.

It was a standard LZ low-gen term, until the advent of B/T and lying about generations became de rigueur.



good golly, young Spencer, you need to do a bit more study on the history of the hobby.



(However, Reggie, you are a goddam genius, for your neat and sussinct phrasing of the obvious....although it probably won't make you any friends among the trolls.)
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskg View Post
I don't think I troll anyone, other than freezer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by U2Lynne View Post
You wall-eyed apple-knocking pig-fuckers! You don't know shit!
  #95  
Old 2010-08-11, 01:19 AM
chinajoe chinajoe is offline
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Re: TTD Staff: Why don't you follow your own rules?

havent seen any posts from carina, the volbeat uploader. in fact, its been quite awhile
since their last appearance...

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in fact, this is now at dime. the uploader there joined on june 20th as well and has only this one upload.

one runs the risk of seeing a show elsewhere, if its traded out. but there is something
to be said about having a trusted source. lots of shows from many bands have seen very limited to zero circulation and remain as such for various reasons. (take the sabbath dumfries show, or the elusive doors nola tape) it takes years to have a trusted trader,and it seems most of that attitude passed on shortly after the birth of the burner.

everythings gonna be all right. things could be a lot worse. but arguing to remove a show, when its a little hard to prove beyond any doubt that you are the taper, is just futile.

Last edited by chinajoe; 2010-08-11 at 01:25 AM.
  #96  
Old 2010-08-11, 03:06 AM
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Thulani Thulani is offline
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Re: TTD Staff: Why don't you follow your own rules?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sabkisscrue View Post
Dont be naive.
You wouldnt have a lot of what you have in your collection if money wasnt exchanged to begin with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabkisscrue View Post
A trader screwing over another trader is one thing but a terrible policy is what we are talking about here and a general consensus among traders where filmers/tapers wishes are disrespected and thats a huge problem.
You should have the policy where a filmer can request a show of his taken down, regardless if that policy has been misused or abused before. You should on the side of the filmer and a filmer's wishes should supercede any Mod or any policy. Thats how it should be, thats how its always been because these are the ones who provide the material and they deserve the respect. I dont know how you could see it any differently.
What a load of crap. You're asking money on other forums to buy tapes from tapers, which are screwing the artists who gave the permission to film (or not), but you're upset on traders who cheat other traders.
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  #97  
Old 2010-08-11, 03:23 AM
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paddington paddington is offline
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Re: TTD Staff: Why don't you follow your own rules?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sabkisscrue View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskg View Post
with one exception - those artists actually own that work.

In this case, the taper is simply a fan and, while very much appreciated, his recording isn't subject to his whims once he gives it out.

but yes, it is the same result. If lawsuits and bully tactics can't stop it in the RIAA's case, why would anyone think some torrent mods could stop it? Besides, as has been noted, it was tried and proved impossible. And people don't like it. If we ban it, it'll just go up 30 secs later in 5 other places.. then it will show up here again when we aren't looking.


Freedom, man. Hard to control it.
Thats just your way of giving up and copping out of your duties as a Mod.
not really. I don't feel like a cop... or copper...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sabkisscrue
"If we take it down its gonna go up elsewhere".
Thats not an excuse for doing nothing and pissing off someone who can torrent several of his masters, which you may not care about but I'm sure theres plenty of people who would like that alot.
Im gonna say this again, its irrelevant who gets a hold of a tapers recording.
The whole notion, that once he gives out its no longer his, is absurd.
never said it was no longer his, just that he no longer has control over it. You fail to grok the subtle difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sabkisscrue
I gotta say this, dont bite the hand that feeds you. Tapers are what provide not just TTD but the entire trading and downloading community the material that we have. Be on the side of them. I dont care whether you are a Mod or a downloader, have some respect for those who bust their asses and deserve more respect than they are getting
especially from the people who have posted in this thread.
You absolute dense fuck, I have already posted about this directly above. TTD is one of the most taper-friendly sites on the net. You do not suddenly speak for all tapers just because none of us want to revisit this tired, old topic AGAIN.

You are preaching to the choir, here. I'm sorry tapes get traded when people ask others not to do it - but it isn't a new thing did you just tape your first concert or what? If there's a better version to be had, we'll do a swap. We always do. We WILL NOT PULL A SHOW BECAUSE SOME GUY DECIDES HE NO LONGER WANTS IT TRADED after he's handed out copies.

and please do not start that bullshit again about how the show was uncirculated before it was torrented here. That isn't possible.


Many of us have been where you are - but you have to learn you cannot control everything. When the tape goes out, it's out. You cannot moderate the entire internet and the shit you are taping doesn't belong to you, anyway.
__________________
"There are some of these recordings where it is just a whirring, and you cannot hear the music. " - Jimmy Page, 2007 / JUL / 26
  #98  
Old 2010-08-11, 07:39 AM
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mooncusser mooncusser is offline
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Re: TTD Staff: Why don't you follow your own rules?

but I want an Oompa-Loompa now!!!!

mobile PWing device
  #99  
Old 2010-08-11, 10:18 AM
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Re: TTD Staff: Why don't you follow your own rules?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mooncusser View Post
but I want an Oompa-Loompa now!!!!

mobile PWing device
You're entitled, right?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskg View Post
I don't think I troll anyone, other than freezer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by U2Lynne View Post
You wall-eyed apple-knocking pig-fuckers! You don't know shit!
  #100  
Old 2010-08-11, 12:59 PM
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Re: TTD Staff: Why don't you follow your own rules?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskg View Post
I think it is important to make note, here, that we do not disrespect tapers' wishes at TTD.

We cannot control what the general public does. We do not have the time to keep a running list of what shows are not to be torrented because the taper has changed his mind or gave a copy out to someone he shouldn't have trusted.

There are 136,000+ files being swapped right now on the tracker bwetween 10,000+ peers. We cannot keep track of which ones come with stipulations.
Really - you and dcblowjob seemed to jump all over that freezer recording I upped because "magic", plastic microphones and stand-alone recorders was something that you could not comprehend.

Personally - if a taper asked to take it down TTD should honor the request but the reality is once he trades it out all bets are off!
  #101  
Old 2010-08-11, 01:01 PM
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pmonk pmonk is offline
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Re: TTD Staff: Why don't you follow your own rules?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sabkisscrue View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rspencer View Post
You record a show.

If the band allows it, then they also usually expect free distribution. It's a way to give something extra to their fans.

If they don't allow it, then the "rights" & rules of the label, management, venue & band have likely been "violated." Yet you expect the taper to have some rights to control a recording he let out, in perpetuity?
Irrelevant. You definitely shouldnt be Moderating a bootleg torrent site or calling yourself a taper, thats for sure.
Hate to burst your bubble - by rspencer is correct. Once you trade out a recording, you no longer have the "right" to stop it from being circulated!

Even Freezer can agree with that!
  #102  
Old 2010-08-11, 01:07 PM
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paddington paddington is offline
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Re: TTD Staff: Why don't you follow your own rules?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmonk View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskg View Post
I think it is important to make note, here, that we do not disrespect tapers' wishes at TTD.

We cannot control what the general public does. We do not have the time to keep a running list of what shows are not to be torrented because the taper has changed his mind or gave a copy out to someone he shouldn't have trusted.

There are 136,000+ files being swapped right now on the tracker bwetween 10,000+ peers. We cannot keep track of which ones come with stipulations.
Really - you and dcblowjob
objection. Pejorative.
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  #103  
Old 2010-08-11, 01:59 PM
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Re: TTD Staff: Why don't you follow your own rules?

Meanwhile in the real world:
Quote:
AEG Live sues concert bootleggers before they bootleg

Just because the Mile High Music Festival this weekend in Denver hasn't happened yet, and just because the bootleggers haven't yet set up shop, doesn't mean that hundreds of individuals haven't already been sued.

AEG Live has jumped on a growing legal trend in the concert world by filing a trademark infringement claim against hundreds of John Does and Jane Does. According to AEG's new complaint, "only the plaintiff has the right to sell merchandise bearing the Festival Trademarks at and near the Festival."

AEG is asking a federal court in Colorado to order the US Marshal, local and state police, off duty officers, and AEG agents to seize and impound bootlegged merchandise.

The complaint follows a similar lawsuit filed earlier this summer by UMG's merchandising division, Bravado International Group, in anticipation of a series of concerts by Lady Gaga at New York's Madison Square Garden. That action opened some eyes in the concert industry, showing other outfits how to use the once-rare John Doe trademark lawsuit to get law enforcement involved.

Now, AEG is hoping to replicate Bravado's success. No damage has yet been done. And any follow-up legal action after the concert is doubtful. But of course, one would hardly expect anybody to show up this week in a Colorado court to contest AEG's lawsuit. A supporting brief filed in the case says that defendants do have that opportunity, although AEG submits that "experience shows it is doubtful they will do so."

The brief also says the unnamed defendants "are not neophytes, but rather somewhat sophisticated businessmen who operate in stealth to thwart the legitimate rights of Plaintiff."

Some lawyers defend the action as appropriate. One trademark lawyer pointed out to us that on the criminal side, courts empower police officers with the discretion to execute temporary remedies. And that in this instance, bootleggers are too nomadic to be served summons.

We're less than convinced. The threat of bootleggers is real, of course, but it's based purely on speculation, without evidence of the kind of past specific misconduct that might trigger temporary remedies as seen in criminal proceedings. That seems odd, and perhaps a slippery slope. Why can't any company in America file John Doe trademark action and get police to seize goods they believe will be infringing? What stops this beyond the concert venue?
http://thresq.hollywoodreporter.com/...in-denver.html
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  #104  
Old 2010-08-11, 02:27 PM
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Re: TTD Staff: Why don't you follow your own rules?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kill_them_all1000 View Post
Meanwhile in the real world:
Quote:
AEG Live sues concert bootleggers before they bootleg

Just because the Mile High Music Festival this weekend in Denver hasn't happened yet, and just because the bootleggers haven't yet set up shop, doesn't mean that hundreds of individuals haven't already been sued.

AEG Live has jumped on a growing legal trend in the concert world by filing a trademark infringement claim against hundreds of John Does and Jane Does. According to AEG's new complaint, "only the plaintiff has the right to sell merchandise bearing the Festival Trademarks at and near the Festival."

AEG is asking a federal court in Colorado to order the US Marshal, local and state police, off duty officers, and AEG agents to seize and impound bootlegged merchandise.

The complaint follows a similar lawsuit filed earlier this summer by UMG's merchandising division, Bravado International Group, in anticipation of a series of concerts by Lady Gaga at New York's Madison Square Garden. That action opened some eyes in the concert industry, showing other outfits how to use the once-rare John Doe trademark lawsuit to get law enforcement involved.

Now, AEG is hoping to replicate Bravado's success. No damage has yet been done. And any follow-up legal action after the concert is doubtful. But of course, one would hardly expect anybody to show up this week in a Colorado court to contest AEG's lawsuit. A supporting brief filed in the case says that defendants do have that opportunity, although AEG submits that "experience shows it is doubtful they will do so."

The brief also says the unnamed defendants "are not neophytes, but rather somewhat sophisticated businessmen who operate in stealth to thwart the legitimate rights of Plaintiff."

Some lawyers defend the action as appropriate. One trademark lawyer pointed out to us that on the criminal side, courts empower police officers with the discretion to execute temporary remedies. And that in this instance, bootleggers are too nomadic to be served summons.

We're less than convinced. The threat of bootleggers is real, of course, but it's based purely on speculation, without evidence of the kind of past specific misconduct that might trigger temporary remedies as seen in criminal proceedings. That seems odd, and perhaps a slippery slope. Why can't any company in America file John Doe trademark action and get police to seize goods they believe will be infringing? What stops this beyond the concert venue?
http://thresq.hollywoodreporter.com/...in-denver.html
Gee, now that begs these questions:

Will any stealthed recordings that may possibly captured at the Mile High Music Festival be allowed through the auspices of The Trader's Den?

Considering this may be a wonderful opportunity for some of the 'entitlement crowd' to test their legal rights, will any staff members of TTD be willing to show up this week in a Colorado court to contest AEG's lawsuit?

What a terrific opportunity for some of you folks to put your money where your mouth is.


Jameskg and dcbullet could represent the entire bootlegging industry via their staff positions at TTD, because you can be goddam motherfucking sure that AEG Live's team of attorneys won't make any distinction between "free distribution" and "selling for a profit" in a court of law; the challenge of making the distinction will fall squarely on the defendants shoulders.


Best of luck to James and Billy-Bob!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskg View Post
I don't think I troll anyone, other than freezer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by U2Lynne View Post
You wall-eyed apple-knocking pig-fuckers! You don't know shit!
  #105  
Old 2010-08-11, 03:06 PM
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Homebrew101 Homebrew101 is offline
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Re: TTD Staff: Why don't you follow your own rules?

Quote:
Originally Posted by freezer View Post
Gee, now that begs these questions:

Will any stealthed recordings that may possibly captured at the Mile High Music Festival be allowed through the auspices of The Trader's Den?

Considering this may be a wonderful opportunity for some of the 'entitlement crowd' to test their legal rights, will any staff members of TTD be willing to show up this week in a Colorado court to contest AEG's lawsuit?

What a terrific opportunity for some of you folks to put your money where your mouth is.


Jameskg and dcbullet could represent the entire bootlegging industry via their staff positions at TTD, because you can be goddam motherfucking sure that AEG Live's team of attorneys won't make any distinction between "free distribution" and "selling for a profit" in a court of law; the challenge of making the distinction will fall squarely on the defendants shoulders.


Best of luck to James and Billy-Bob!
based on this part
Quote:
"only the plaintiff has the right to sell merchandise bearing the Festival Trademarks at and near the Festival."
I interpret the lawsuit to only have bearing on merchandise like t-shirts etc. that might name the festival not recordings made at the fest
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