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Lossy or Lossless? Please use this forum to post spectral and frequency analysis posts about shows you have your doubts about.

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  #16  
Old 2005-05-26, 06:12 PM
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Re: source question killers 2005-02-25.

that kind of "hole" can very well be part of a normal speech signal
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  #17  
Old 2005-05-26, 06:51 PM
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Re: source question killers 2005-02-25.

It is a little fuzzy...

I thought you said this was probably mp2?

maybe closeups from another couple spots might help
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  #18  
Old 2005-05-28, 08:55 AM
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Re: source question killers 2005-02-25.

It's well known that FM broadcasts have a spike at 19KHz (the "pilot tone"), and are also subject to a frequency roll-off at around 15KHz.

Stereo FM signals are modulated with one part of the signel (L+R) transmitted in the 0-15KHz range, and the other part (L-R) transmitted in the 23KHz-53KHz range - as shown by this diagram:

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu.../radio.html#c2

But back to the subject - how do you think the radio signals travel from the original broadcaster to the cable company's distribution center? Even if the cable company is rebroadcasting from a local analogue FM transmitter, how does the signal travel to that FM transmitter?

The answers to these questions are generally unknown, but I have read that France uses MP2 compression via satellite, and the UK (specifically, the BBC) uses NICAM digital signals. Someone has mentioned that the BBC have now switched to MP2 distribution for their FM transmitters, but I haven't found any secondary sources to back that up - the fact that they use (used?) NICAM in the past is well documented.

So whilst we don't know for sure how the Cable company got the radio signal, an MP2 feed is a common method, and the spectral analysis seems to confirm that. The radio station in question (FM4) broadcasts via digital satellite in Europe (at 192kbps), which would seem a likely source for the cable company to tap into.

And we still don't know how the satellite transmission is fed....

Dave.

EDIT: If anyone wants to compare the sound of this torrent with the digital satellite version, the original 192kbps MP2 data is torrented here:

http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-d...id=42814&hit=1

As I write this, there are four seeders, and no leechers, so a good time to hop on - and it's only 77MB (being the original MP2 data).
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  #19  
Old 2005-05-28, 05:51 PM
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Re: source question killers 2005-02-25.

Here it is.
That`s the right channel of both at about the same track position.
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  #20  
Old 2005-05-28, 07:22 PM
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Re: source question killers 2005-02-25.

This is from brighteyes2005-04-03:

fm > wav 44.1/16bps (note: no cableFM)
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  #21  
Old 2005-05-30, 04:45 PM
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Re: source question killers 2005-02-25.

So, let me say... I think the fm broadcast is superior to the satellite one.
Is this allowed to be torrented here (f. e. bright eyes)? I think thereīs something lossy in it.

Next question, does anyone bother about this to be seeded or not

Last edited by range_hood; 2005-05-30 at 04:52 PM.
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  #22  
Old 2005-05-30, 04:59 PM
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Re: source question killers 2005-02-25.

yeah, the FM looks a little fuller in the SA.

these days it seems that more and more non-internet (or at least not exclusively net) stations are broadcasting lossy.

unfortunately lossy isn't allowed here unless its master MD or a DVD.
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  #23  
Old 2005-06-01, 06:24 AM
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Re: source question killers 2005-02-25.

I could record it on MD too. They repeat the cast tonight. It would be MD(M).
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  #24  
Old 2005-06-01, 04:11 PM
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Re: source question killers 2005-02-25.



I'll have to find a way to word things more carefully. MD is only okay for something recorded at the show like sbd, mics or whatever. And no loopholes recording the radio simulcast from the audience or something silly like that!

truth is, when we started this site there was quite a discussion on the topic of allowing mp2/webcasts when they are unique sources. My interpretation of our final decision is that it will help surface the non-lossy sources faster. Since sometimes lossless sources never surface it is often worth it to share mp2/webcasts, just not on this site. We ended up keeping the MD exception so in the end our stance on lossy sources is pretty much the same as it was at STG (altho many other things are different).
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  #25  
Old 2005-06-01, 04:47 PM
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Re: source question killers 2005-02-25.

...


hm... so, ... what I want to share (f.e. brighteyes) is neither webcast nor mp2 stream. Itīs plain old terrestrial FM (as you get it here in vienna at 103.8MHz). As this is a soundboard recording you will get no better sbd unless itīs postFM or another soundboard patch.
Sure, I would be glad to get true lossless.
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  #26  
Old 2005-08-27, 12:43 PM
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Re: source question killers 2005-02-25.

correction:
hm... so, ... what I want to share (f.e. brighteyes) is neither webcast nor mp2 stream. Itīs plain old terrestrial FM (as you get it here in vienna at 103.8MHz). As this is a soundboard recording you will get no better sbd unless itīs preFM or another soundboard patch.
Sure, I would be glad to get true lossless.
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  #27  
Old 2005-08-27, 03:15 PM
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Re: source question killers 2005-02-25.

yeah, seed the non-mp2 version anytime. the sa looks just like the one we were discussing in the bbc thread so go for it.
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