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View Poll Results: Do remasters fit with the site's mission statement?
Yes 13 43.33%
No 17 56.67%
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

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  #46  
Old 2009-09-30, 10:39 PM
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Re: do remasters fit with the site's mission statement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcbullet View Post
We don't pull shows at the tapers request.
Maybe that should be clearly stated as part of the site's mission statement. Very clearly stated.


But, yeah, we all remember those U2 threads about just that.

And I remember that a certain tape in question was already acknowleged to be that of the guy making the complaints.

And he got nowhere, we all remember it well. (Even though Pete Schweddy and his attorney might not be visible any longer....)




Quote:
Originally Posted by dcbullet View Post
If the taper doesn't want his show messed with, he shouldn't circulate it.
No kidding.

Maybe that should be stated as part of the site's mission statement also.





Quote:
Originally Posted by dcbullet View Post
And I'm not going to try to police and figure out which taper is real or not. This is the internet. How the hell do I know who is who?
Well, maybe it shouldn't be left up to you if you can't tell. Honestly, why should you be expected to do a job or task you can't figure out?

Maybe there needs to be someone on staff that specializes in knowing about master recordings and the myriad remaster-ers that now abound.


This is only a discussion, these are only suggestions.

Hell, the site could continue with the status quo and a mod can kill this discussion and that's the end of that.

You folks don't need to ban remasters or even "remasters of remasters", especially when there are multiple versions of the same show from different bootleggers already available here. And doing quite well, bringing in lots of new members, many of whom don't really care about who what when where and why, as long as it sounds 'good'.


Maybe this discussion about "quality over quantity" as a part of the site's mission statement is a non-issue considering what percent of the site's traffic in only interested in the "tunez" -- not where the recording came from nor how many levels of eq are now layered on said recording.



TTD might only need a way to sort out all the "remaster-ers"....after all, "you can't tell the players without a scorecard" -- right?
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  #47  
Old 2009-09-30, 11:43 PM
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Re: do remasters fit with the site's mission statement?

it is stated clearly in the FAQ:
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/..._taper_removal
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  #48  
Old 2009-10-01, 08:47 AM
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Re: do remasters fit with the site's mission statement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AAR.oner View Post
cool, it says that THIS site's policy is similar to that at a "major torrent site".

Obviously that was written before TTD became a major torrent site.

However, we are discussing a possible clarification to the current TTD policy on remasters.

Maybe staff will have to reconsider this part of TTD's mission statement also, as it will come as a part of banning remasters.

There are always mitigating circumstances.

Every case is NOT always the same.
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  #49  
Old 2009-10-01, 02:31 PM
scoobie scoobie is offline
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Re: do remasters fit with the site's mission statement?

Remasters should at least be regulated by an official qualified definition.

Within reason, certain modifications must be allowed to address tape flaws, but certain other adjustments should not be permitted.

Correct for speed, etc., but it's a pain in the neck when someone screws around with the EQ before I get the tape. Some of the recent Nirvana uploads, for example.
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  #50  
Old 2009-10-01, 07:22 PM
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Re: do remasters fit with the site's mission statement?

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  #51  
Old 2009-10-02, 01:34 AM
chinajoe chinajoe is offline
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Re: do remasters fit with the site's mission statement?

if you limit what can be done, then how about limiting which software could be used?
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  #52  
Old 2009-10-02, 02:24 AM
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Re: do remasters fit with the site's mission statement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chinajoe View Post
if you limit what can be done, then how about limiting which software could be used?
Exactly. Just like Sony Vegas is banned from the video torrents.
Re-Masterers seem to forget that all software imparts a unique sound upon the music. Cubase, Logic, Pro-Tools all have their own sound. It may be a very subtle variance, but it exists.
Every digital generation added to a lineage is in some form a convolution of the original recording, no matter how expensive or professional the software.

On the issue of proving that people are telling the truth about lineage or taper identities... well, i don't trust many lineages at many other places. I download the stuff because i want the music, no matter what; but that's not in line with this site's unique mission statement. i don't know why people lie about lineages; it seems that there are people who are desperate to have their name related to the music in some form. Over at Dime i am constantly amazed by the number of people that have miraculously obtained access to 40-year-old Master recordings. A lot of Master>DAT and Master>WAV>FLAC stuff; you have to wonder if these people are looking for more from the sharing experience than merely sharing. I think the insistence upon "unknown generation" becoming a mandatory aspect of any lineage that can not be varified is a good thing.

With all of that trash going on, remasters just add a whole load of rotting vegetables to the pot. Stew 'em up for long enough and even the good vegetables taste like mush and the rotten vegetables get lost in the mix. That's not a suitable attitude for the 21st Century. My grandparents boiled the shit out of their vegetables, but in this day and age we understand the benefit of nutrition -- and that means steaming our vegetables gently so that they keep their flavor, their color and their crunch.
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  #53  
Old 2009-10-02, 12:35 PM
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Re: do remasters fit with the site's mission statement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kung Poo
Just like Sony Vegas is banned from the video torrents.
No it isn't. If you're gonna post using a bullshit alias, get a fucking clue & get the facts straight.
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  #54  
Old 2009-10-02, 01:05 PM
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Re: do remasters fit with the site's mission statement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rspencer View Post
Thus making any alteration merely that, not remastering. It can be EQed, normalized, pitch-corrected, sped up or slowed down, but without using the master, it is not remastering.
Ahhhh what? This is not correct at all. A remastered recording is simply a recording that has been altered from its original state in a specific format. This does not include remixing, which could be done if the original multitrack master was available. A remastered recording does not have to come from the original master. You're confusing terminology here. I have MANY recordings, released officially, that have been remastered but are not from the original master tapes as they were either damaged or unavailable as I'm sure a lot of other people do as well. Any edits to a recording that alter the frequency response, channel levels, compression levels, pitch, etc. are EXACTLY remastering!

EX: The US Who's Next remastered audio disc from I believe it was 95 or 96, prior to the release of the deluxe edition, was remastered from the best available tapes. It was NOT remastered from the original master tapes. It was missing at the time. The subsequent deluxe edition was remastered from the original tapes after they were recovered.

Again, it's important people recognize the terms used and the proper definitions.
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  #55  
Old 2009-10-02, 01:15 PM
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theface07 theface07 is offline
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Re: do remasters fit with the site's mission statement?

Since no one is going to agree whether remastered recordings should be allowed or whether they are superior to the source recordings, it should be necessary that the person who uploads the remastered recording provide samples of each version to let the user compare the 2 and decide whether its worth a download. There's no way to say "THIS IS DEFINITELY THE SUPERIOR VERSION THAT EVERYONE WILL PREFER."
I know some people here think they have that ability but they are speaking for themselves and that's it, as much as they might think they are an authority or official spokesmen for everyone using the site. Perception of sound is subjective and varies from person to person. I don't see why an alternate version should be banned if there are users who appreciate them.
As far as all these childish personal comments go, these are the people who should be silenced. They do nothing but add negativity and the tendency towards blind ignorance to this great site.
I mean seriously, does someone who adds the following tags for this thread:
"ban the face07, face07 is a tool, face07 is just a tweaker, live & let live - right?, playing with software, theface07 curried mutton, tweaker!"
really have anything worthwhile to contribute? Maybe so. If they do, I've completely missed the point of free trade and technical discussions about audio data manipulation..
I guess my gargantuan ego is too big for me to notice any purpose.
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  #56  
Old 2009-10-02, 01:22 PM
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theface07 theface07 is offline
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Re: do remasters fit with the site's mission statement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kung Poo View Post
Exactly. Just like Sony Vegas is banned from the video torrents.
Re-Masterers seem to forget that all software imparts a unique sound upon the music. Cubase, Logic, Pro-Tools all have their own sound. It may be a very subtle variance, but it exists.
Every digital generation added to a lineage is in some form a convolution of the original recording, no matter how expensive or professional the software.

On the issue of proving that people are telling the truth about lineage or taper identities... well, i don't trust many lineages at many other places. I download the stuff because i want the music, no matter what; but that's not in line with this site's unique mission statement. i don't know why people lie about lineages; it seems that there are people who are desperate to have their name related to the music in some form. Over at Dime i am constantly amazed by the number of people that have miraculously obtained access to 40-year-old Master recordings. A lot of Master>DAT and Master>WAV>FLAC stuff; you have to wonder if these people are looking for more from the sharing experience than merely sharing. I think the insistence upon "unknown generation" becoming a mandatory aspect of any lineage that can not be varified is a good thing.

With all of that trash going on, remasters just add a whole load of rotting vegetables to the pot. Stew 'em up for long enough and even the good vegetables taste like mush and the rotten vegetables get lost in the mix. That's not a suitable attitude for the 21st Century. My grandparents boiled the shit out of their vegetables, but in this day and age we understand the benefit of nutrition -- and that means steaming our vegetables gently so that they keep their flavor, their color and their crunch.
Nice vegetable analogy. I guess you have no technical way of explaining your point other than to say IT SUCKS LIKE OVERCOOKED VEGETABLES!
Audio editing software does NOT alter a recording just by being within the DAW. This is preposterous. A WAV file put in a DAW and then saved as a WAV file will be IDENTICAL to the original WAV file. If you make edits or adjustments within the DAW, obviously the sound will be altered. Whether it is better or worse is obviously up for debate.
It's unfortunate that you seem more concerned with lineage than the "actual" sound. Yes, history of a recording is important but if someone has a better sounding version of an already circulating recording, albeit one with less complete lineage, it would be stupid to fault that person or ban them because of such a bureaucratic reason. Maybe if you're working for an accounting firm or in an office somewhere this would be right. But when it comes to audio, the AUDIO should be the benchmark.
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  #57  
Old 2009-10-02, 01:36 PM
Kung Poo
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Re: do remasters fit with the site's mission statement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by schmoe75 View Post
No it isn't. If you're gonna post using a bullshit alias, get a fucking clue & get the facts straight.
My bad. Excuse me. As for Aliases being bullshit.... we'll hasn't everyone got one?
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  #58  
Old 2009-10-02, 01:43 PM
Kung Poo
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Re: do remasters fit with the site's mission statement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by theface07 View Post
A WAV file put in a DAW and then saved as a WAV file will be IDENTICAL to the original WAV file. If you make edits or adjustments within the DAW, obviously the sound will be altered.
well yeah, i think the essence of this debate takes for granted that alterations will be made during a remaster.
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  #59  
Old 2009-10-02, 02:52 PM
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theface07 theface07 is offline
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Re: do remasters fit with the site's mission statement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kung Poo View Post
well yeah, i think the essence of this debate takes for granted that alterations will be made during a remaster.
Takes for granted? Do you mean assumes?
When it comes to digital editing, there is no generational damage done to an audio file if kept in the same format, regardless of if it is opened in a DAW. It's not like a physical tape...
I believe that was one of your claims and thus, my rebuke.
Please clarify your point.
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  #60  
Old 2009-10-02, 03:09 PM
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AAR.oner AAR.oner is offline
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Re: do remasters fit with the site's mission statement?

want to point out that the poll results at the top are not accurate due to certain users voting multiple times using alias accounts

just a fwiw
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