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  #61  
Old 2009-01-19, 07:13 PM
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Re: tape transferring

Five... I trust your opinion and so do a lot of us here at TTD. The real comparison would be to do two transfers... one xsfer in 24/96 and another xsfer 16/44. Then, I would suggest comparing the 24/96 with the downsampled version. And then compare those with the 16/44. I realize that many of us can't playback 24/96 today... but the tapes are getting old in some cases. How long before we all listen and share 24/96? I feel more comfortable archiving 24/96 on my aging masters. What is your opinion?
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  #62  
Old 2009-01-19, 08:40 PM
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Re: tape transferring

I can do that Five, no problem. Tomorrow when I get to work, I''ll do a partial tune and we can compare.

I'm still not saying every example will sound "better", but I would rather add a little "good" noise than take the chance of quantization errors. To me it just feels like a nominal difference thats worth it's weight.
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  #63  
Old 2009-01-19, 09:57 PM
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Re: tape transferring

thanks! I used to preach the gospel of dither until a friend of mine told me to stop using it... I thought he was crazy until I tried it for myself. maybe I was using a bad setting or something. looking forward to checking out your post
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  #64  
Old 2009-01-19, 10:00 PM
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Re: tape transferring

I'd have to open SF to get the exact wording, but there are different types of dithering. Some better than others.
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  #65  
Old 2009-01-19, 10:52 PM
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Re: tape transferring

Quote:
Originally Posted by cicada View Post
Five... I trust your opinion and so do a lot of us here at TTD. The real comparison would be to do two transfers... one xsfer in 24/96 and another xsfer 16/44. Then, I would suggest comparing the 24/96 with the downsampled version. And then compare those with the 16/44. I realize that many of us can't playback 24/96 today... but the tapes are getting old in some cases. How long before we all listen and share 24/96? I feel more comfortable archiving 24/96 on my aging masters. What is your opinion?
thank you kindly

I think you have the right idea. Archiving at 24/96 is the best digital quality we can achieve at this time, altho its been said that korg 1bit technology is beyond all that and who knows what's coming up in the future. Another possibility would be archiving to 30ips half-track analog (!!) since that is as transparent as an analog generation can get and keeps digital right out of it. You always lose something when you convert analog to digital, the copy is close but not quite the same as listening right off the analog master.

Personally, I archive at 16bit/44.1 or 24bit/44.1 and keep the analog tapes in a cool, dry place. And on special occasions (5+ years or so) I pull out the original masters and give them a spin at full volume--that's what they're for!! I guess I would archive at 24/96 if I was better at keeping track of my digital stuff.

Never playing the masters is like restraining yourself from having enthusiastic sex with your wife for fear of wearing out her you-know-what, then one day you wake up and you're both 80+ years old and her you-know-what isn't anything you'd want to wear out anymore anyways. does that make sense? (did I really just say that? )

anyhow its a personal decision & there's lots of good info in this thread to make it an educated decision
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  #66  
Old 2009-01-20, 03:39 AM
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Re: tape transferring

[quote=Five;1072866]
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Originally Posted by cicada View Post
... on special occasions (5+ years or so) I pull out the original masters and give them a spin at full volume--that's what they're for!! I guess I would archive at 24/96 if I was better at keeping track of my digital stuff.

Never playing the masters is like restraining yourself from having enthusiastic sex with your wife for fear of wearing out her you-know-what, then one day you wake up and you're both 80+ years old and her you-know-what isn't anything you'd want to wear out anymore anyways. does that make sense?
Well, to continue the analogy, if your enthusiasm actually wore out her you-know-what every time you participated, I'm sure you'd take more care.

That's the situation we're in with a lot of tape masters - to play them is to actually find the oxide dropping off the tape, leaving the master in a worse state than before. So in my case, the older reel-to-reels get played when they're getting transferred, and at no other time.

Archive to 30ips reel-to-reel ???? Have you SEEN the cost of reel-to-reel tape recently?
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  #67  
Old 2009-01-20, 10:17 AM
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Re: tape transferring

I couldn't get the attachments to stick so heres a link to external download.

https://www.yousendit.com/download/W...QzNtUUdGa1E9PQ

This source started as 24/48. I used r8brain pro to do the src to 24/44.1, then I used Izotope ozone 3 to dither with the mbit + option down to 16. the other was simply saved with no dither as a 16/44.1 in my editing software. See what you think.
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  #68  
Old 2009-01-20, 03:25 PM
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Re: tape transferring

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Originally Posted by Five View Post
analog master.

Never playing the masters is like restraining yourself from having enthusiastic sex with your wife for fear of wearing out her you-know-what...
yeah, that kind of stuff should definitely be saved for the mistress.
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  #69  
Old 2009-01-20, 08:49 PM
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Re: tape transferring

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Originally Posted by Five View Post
If you cannot set wavlab exactly to 24bit for capture use audacity.
Ah. I've done this in the past. Make sure that you lots and lots of space allocated to audacity when you do this. With me it froze up a good few times. There is nothing worse then being half way though a transfer and the whole thing collapses.
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  #70  
Old 2009-01-21, 05:42 AM
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Re: tape transferring

Thanks so far for all of your comments and sharing your opinions on the best way to capture the audio files. I guess the safest way would be to make a 24/96 transfer to start with. I have some master recordings that Iíll have to restore to the original taper in matter of time, so I guess making a 24/96 would be the safest solution because I wonít be able to retransfer it after a few years (when maybe 16/48, or any other capturing mode, would be old fashion)
Which programs are preferred for the down sampling, so Iíll be able to share those recordings? Iíve got wavelab 5 and audition 3 on my pc so far, but I saw zeek mentioning some other programs as well.
Iíve got a last question on adjusting the azimuth. Iíve got my cassette deck hooked up into my soundcard and Iíve got my soundcard hooked up into my amp. Would you prefer to directly adjusting the azimuth on the amp (leaving the soundcard out) or wonít it make much difference? I guess going directly to the amp would be the best.
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  #71  
Old 2009-01-21, 06:35 AM
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Re: tape transferring

Do you maen listening through the amp to adjust the azimuth? I always go straight into the tape deck headphone jack to adjust azimuth. I don't know that it matters a ton if you have accurate playback and a good ear, but I like to go straight to the component I'm dealing with.

For ease and consistant quality. I would use r8brain free(link above). It dithers and does src in one fell swoop. Izotope ozone 3 (if you have it for wavelab) is also a really good option using the mbit + setting, but it's not free. The src and dither options that come with wavelab are pretty lame for current standards and will give you sub par results compared to the two mentioned above imo.

Good luck.
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  #72  
Old 2009-01-21, 07:24 AM
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Re: tape transferring

Seconded - headphones on the cassette deck to adjust stuff
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  #73  
Old 2009-01-21, 09:07 AM
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Re: tape transferring

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five View Post
Archiving at 24/96 is the best digital quality we can achieve at this time, altho its been said that korg 1bit technology is beyond all that and who knows what's coming up in the future.
uh Five, aren't you forgetting about 24/192 ?


i've been curious about that 1Bit technology for the past year...if you know anyone using it, PM me...i'd be interested in hearing their take on it...just waitin on them to drop a 4ch recorder and i'll be lookin to upgrade
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  #74  
Old 2009-01-21, 09:48 AM
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Re: tape transferring

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Originally Posted by AAR.oner View Post
uh Five, aren't you forgetting about 24/192 ?


i've been curious about that 1Bit technology for the past year...if you know anyone using it, PM me...i'd be interested in hearing their take on it...just waitin on them to drop a 4ch recorder and i'll be lookin to upgrade
It is not at least for pcm audio. The reason being is this once you go above 96000kHz samplerate all the soundcards that can do higher add noise into the signal. Each card is different on the how, where and how much but to my knowledge none of them can sample without adding extraneous noise into the signal at 192. There is a reason why high end stuff like pro tools doesn't support 192 samplerates. You also have the law of diminishing returns kicking in at this point since the there is no perceptable difference when listening to something at 96 or 192. It maybe a more accurate reproduction of the original analog signal but the trade off is double the filesize with no audible advantage. If you want higher than 96 then the way to go is dsd encoding like what is used for sacd.
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  #75  
Old 2009-01-21, 10:16 AM
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Re: tape transferring

werd, i'm not saying to use 192, just makin a crack at my buddy Five...i honestly feel even 24/96 is overkill for non-studio ish, but to each there own...

like you said, DSD and other 1-bit formats seem to be the future of digi recording, at least at the moment...we'll have to wait and see but its still digi--i'd be luggin 2in reel-to-reel to tape shows if i could afford it!
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