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  #16  
Old 2008-10-16, 05:41 PM
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Wink Re: Saying Thanks to the Seeder...

Quote:
Originally Posted by U2Lynne View Post
It is open for discussion and I am reading this thread to see what people think.
Good, I have a few thoughts on the subject as someone who was a part of the hobby for a long time and have seen too many changes.

I don't upload or download, but I made more master recordings than quite a lot of your "community" put together.

I'd been supplying UNCIRCULATED recordings to people at this site, and I watch as the recordings are taken to other sites.

Many times the source info and lineage is retained, but just as often it isn't, it's removed by some "good" member of the "community" who wants credit for something he did little more than move to another site.

At certain sites, the removal of proper source info and lineage is encouraged by the site staff.

THAT is not the case here at TTD, and I applaud the audiophile standards that are tried to be upheld at this site.



Quote:
Originally Posted by U2Lynne
Do you think new users just don't think about it? As was already brought up, there are a lot of users who have downloaded stuff and never made a single post. Why is that? Are they afraid to say Thanks or do they just not think about it?
I think it's the modern sense of entitlement that prevades the "community" now that is the root of your problem, Lynne.

Why thank somebody for something you feel ENTITLED to own?

Sharing? That's become a bullshit term in today's version of the hobby.

It's not sharing when you're ENTITLED to a copy, and many newer collectors don't feel the need to thank anyone for something they believe is already theirs.




Certain b/t sites foster that sense of entitlement.

It's why more and more tapers from the past are NOT fully opening their collection vaults.

It's why certain older recordings will never see the light of day, or be passed around in any form except a very highly generated version with edits and tracks removed.

And that HAS become the standard rather than the exception.





My David Bowie 1978-04-11 Baton Rouge recording was booted years ago, oh well....

Well, that boot was torrented at this site earlier this year. That torrent was picked up by another bootlegger and bootlegged again. (Maybe you remember me telling someone who seeded the recording that it was an audience tape and I made it....His comment? WHO cares where it came from. Need to be pointed to where that exchange was made or which TTD member made that reply???)

Unfortunately, the Bowie Baton Rouge boot is VERY highly edited and the original source info was removed long ago. Oh well...

Consequently, there are "good" collectors passing that recording off as a 'soundboard' recording, because they can't hear the audience between the songs.... It was removed, along with Bowie's stage patter. It's a garbage copy in circulation. And even though a better copy could be in circulation, the boot is what will be passed around from this point on.

Garbage in.....garbage out.....

Also it gives me very little impetus to put the master of the Bowie show in circulation. Why bother, when even the collector who seeded the bootleg doesn't give a good hearty goddam about getting a better copy?



You know me to be vociferous, and that causes the trolls in your "community" to come out and want to bait arguements over UNCIRCULATING recordings rather than just politely asking. We're seeing that again today in the Lounge area, aren't we?



However, to address the use of a "Thanks" button or whether it's better to add a personalized thanks:

I'd prefer to see comments on the sound quality of the recording, or the performance by the artists, or the reaction of the audience, or the set list.

THAT'S where the real thanks lies......A response on how the show was appreciated AFTER a listen......

HOWEVER: That would mean taking a bit of effort to actually listen to the d/l'ed show and forming a comment and then typing it up.....and that's something that the new members of the "community" don't want to think about.....It decreases their sense of entitlement.



But, say, Lynne, ....imagine what the next few years will bring to the "community" if the trend YOU noticed continues......



You think it'll get any better? I doubt it.

You better institute that thank you button to go off automatically upon each completed download, IF you want to see it in use when the next new wave of teenagers hit TTD in force.


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  #17  
Old 2008-10-16, 11:27 PM
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Re: Saying Thanks to the Seeder...

I try to thank everyone for their uploads, but I usually wait until the download completes so I can check it out first. While I appreciate all the effort to share shows, I feel that the quality of the torrent dictates the thanks. Fortunately, I haven't had too many 'klunkers', and I've been able to sample most shows and abort those that just don't measure up.

There are, however, a lot of douche-bags that think they have a right to anything they can glom, and that thanks aren't worth their effort. In that respect, TTD is just like real-life.
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  #18  
Old 2008-10-16, 11:36 PM
chinajoe chinajoe is offline
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Re: Saying Thanks to the Seeder...

cant say i care one way or another if someone thanks me. page after page of thanks would get boring real quick. i agree that commenting on the quality of the recording is a good idea as it may help the taper do better in the future. sometimes, people add info about what happened at the show. things like people picking up urine soaked cards and putting it in their back pocket, or some superfat surfer falling flat on his ass.

a thanks button would be somewhat impersonal. but, if you have an option where you can edit it like a signature then it becomes more personal.
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  #19  
Old 2008-10-17, 01:33 AM
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Re: Saying Thanks to the Seeder...

Well, I always say thanks as part of my d/l ritual...

But I feel stupid just saying "thanks" using the same wording every time.

I am so far behind on listening to shows that I have d/l I have no clue as to the quality, sound, etc. etc. so I just say thank you.

The sites that have the button are lame...I feel that taking the time to say thanks is sincere...pressing a button has no value.

So...As always, thank you!!
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  #20  
Old 2008-10-17, 03:34 AM
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Re: Saying Thanks to the Seeder...

Quote:
Originally Posted by freezer View Post
At certain sites, the removal of proper source info and lineage is encouraged by the site staff.
I have to say I have never heard of a site, torrent, mail trading, FTP or whatever that removal of proper source info and/or lineage is encouraged by users or staff.

Even with pirate sites and 'scene' releases.

Can you point me in the direction of such a place? (out of my own sick curiosity)
PM me if you don't want to call them out in public.
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  #21  
Old 2008-10-17, 04:35 AM
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Re: Saying Thanks to the Seeder...

Quote:
Originally Posted by freezer View Post
I'd prefer to see comments on the sound quality of the recording, or the performance by the artists, or the reaction of the audience, or the set list.

THAT'S where the real thanks lies......A response on how the show was appreciated AFTER a listen......
I definitely agree with this. It's nice and polite for people to say thanks (I try to on everything I DL), but for something I'd recorded and uploaded, although a string of "thanks for sharing" comments are appreciated, some feedback on the quality/show etc would be more helpful and could help me as the taper to improve.

I agree the thanks button is a little impersonal, but it's better than nothing.
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  #22  
Old 2008-10-17, 09:25 AM
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direwolf-pgh direwolf-pgh is offline
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Re: Saying Thanks to the Seeder...

thanks
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  #23  
Old 2008-10-17, 09:40 AM
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Re: Saying Thanks to the Seeder...

i've never said, "Thanks" in the thread for something i've downloaded, unless i had something more to add. i personally don't like to see a thread full of thanks. i'd like the thread following a seed to contain information worth reading. Anything, someone who was at the show, a comment about the artist, comments on the show/recording quality, whatever. But a wading through a thread full of thanks seems wasteful.

But then again, i haven't seeded anything. If i had, maybe i would be in the other court and getting all peeved about the sense of entitilement in the damned youth today!

And another point for adding the thanks...it harks back to the days of STG...where bumping the thread would keep it up at the top of the message list and keep the torrent well-fed.

So there is my contradictory point of view (do i ever take a stance on anything?)
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  #24  
Old 2008-10-17, 11:55 AM
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Re: Saying Thanks to the Seeder...

1% of the members make 99% of the posts... so overall its about as much interaction as (to borrow a quote) going to a supermarket.

its part of our mission to increase fan interaction, I'm not certain a thanks button would achieve this....

this hobby doesn't have to be a lonely one, lets talk about the shows more, say 'wow, what a great version of xxx song, I think its the best from the tour...' etc

would be great to see some first-time posters add to this conversation, tell us why you haven't posted yet (and hopefully break the habit..)
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  #25  
Old 2008-10-17, 12:19 PM
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U2Lynne U2Lynne is offline
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Re: Saying Thanks to the Seeder...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five View Post
would be great to see some first-time posters add to this conversation, tell us why you haven't posted yet (and hopefully break the habit..)
Yes, it would. However, I have a feeling they aren't even reading this thread.
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  #26  
Old 2008-10-17, 12:27 PM
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pawel pawel is offline
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Re: Saying Thanks to the Seeder...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five View Post
1% of the members make 99% of the posts.
Perhaps you have in mind these sitting 24h at the lounge

I think it's not so bad, approx. up to 10% of people leeching a torrent drop a comment. Same is at Dime, worst at other sites.

As an uploader I like even simple 'thanks'. A little number comments doesn't encourage me to prepare another torrent However, I very often seed for a few buddies I like.
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  #27  
Old 2008-10-17, 04:31 PM
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RetroDude83 RetroDude83 is offline
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Re: Saying Thanks to the Seeder...

Quote:
Originally Posted by U2Lynne View Post
Is it just my perception being off, or does it seem that less and less people are saying Thanks to the seeders?

I know I have always tried to say Thanks when I grab a torrent, and then if I especially like the show, or have other comments about it, I go back and post again in the thread. But, sometimes I will find there are already 30 leechers on a show and there isn't even one Thanks in the thread! What is with that? Do some users just feel that they don't need to say Thanks or don't realize that it's polite to say Thanks? Are they so used to a Thanks button (like on other sites) that they don't know how to post a simple comment of Thanks?

Why are users not saying Thanks?
I was having the same feeling too, over the past 12 months less and less people would comment on the shows I seeded, they'd only post a comment to complain if I disappeared.

yesterday, I have just posted about that issue in the taper's forum, where the thread's question was 'do you feel obligated to release your tapes', and really, not that I'm a taper for a long time, but I'm absolutely reluctant to seed anything of the stuff I taped.

Guess people have been feeded with too much and now take it for granted to be supplied with the latest recordings or something. Wonder how many of them have actually taped something themselves or ever traded big for discs/tapes back in the day...

as for the Thank You buttons on several other sites, they are absolutely useless in my opinion. but also here, they are not being pressed by many any longer either.

Just wondering whether this trend will change again or get even worse in the near future. I'm not the type of guy who downloads lots as I really have more live music to listen to than time, but if I do I always give a wink to the seeders

2cents
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  #28  
Old 2008-10-17, 06:21 PM
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rspencer rspencer is offline
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Re: Saying Thanks to the Seeder...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pawel View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Five View Post
1% of the members make 99% of the posts.
Perhaps you have in mind these sitting 24h at the lounge
I was thinking the same thing.

Hundreds of threads, thousands of posts.

And what, maybe 15 of us in there, along with another couple dozen aliases.

Most of us in the Lounge post thanks, though.
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  #29  
Old 2008-10-17, 08:06 PM
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JackDog JackDog is offline
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Re: Saying Thanks to the Seeder...

Quote:
Originally Posted by freezer View Post
However, to address the use of a "Thanks" button or whether it's better to add a personalized thanks:

I'd prefer to see comments on the sound quality of the recording, or the performance by the artists, or the reaction of the audience, or the set list.

THAT'S where the real thanks lies......A response on how the show was appreciated AFTER a listen......

HOWEVER: That would mean taking a bit of effort to actually listen to the d/l'ed show and forming a comment and then typing it up.....and that's something that the new members of the "community" don't want to think about.....It decreases their sense of entitlement.
That's exactly how I feel. It's nice for someone to say thanks, but it's actually helpful for me if they say something about the recording after listening to it. I also agree that there's a sense of entitlement out there that's only getting worse. Now that more people know how to download bittorrents it seems like they expect to get a copy of the show before it's even over. I haven't even been taping for a year yet, but I've already become jaded.
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  #30  
Old 2008-10-17, 08:50 PM
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Lou Lou is offline
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Re: Saying Thanks to the Seeder...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcbullet View Post
I also don't think that necessarily every singe person needs to say thanks in every single torrent thread. A torrent with 100 completes - that's a lot of posts!
This is why I think the "thanks" button would be good. I don't see the button as any less personal than spending 5 seconds typing out six characters and nothing else and moving on, and I think you'd get more people expressing thanks if they could do it with the click of a button, as opposed to typing it out.

I also would like to see more substantive discussion of shows as you pointed out, and I think that's a bigger problem than people not saying thanks. The last show I posted got the following kinds of posts:

1) thanks
2) recording quality
3) How do you decode these files

There was not ONE post discussing anything specific about the concert itself (a couple people said it was a great concert, that's it). Nothing about what would make the performances of the songs, or banter between songs, unique (or not) compared to other shows. Nothing about the funny (I thought) comments by audience members around the taper. Nobody who attended this show chimed in with a review of it. I can understand you won't usually get that with an older show, but this was a 2008 show. All of this is part of the fun, in my opinion.
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The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Site Announcements & Suggestions

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