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Lossy or Lossless?
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  #46  
Old 2008-05-15, 06:27 PM
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Re: Re-encoded digital video

Hey, don't drag me into this squabble. I just share my stuff. Nobody has to download it. It's their choice. My vids look okay to me, and so far people like to watch them. So I really don't care what tech people (who don't watch them) think. Thank you schmoe for cleaning up the language.
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  #47  
Old 2008-05-15, 06:32 PM
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Re: Re-encoded digital video

Quote:
Originally Posted by scratchie
Obviously not. My point is that S-Video is still analog, and when you're receiving a digital transmission -- i.e., an MPEG-2 file -- there's no reason to convert it to analog and then convert it back to a larger, inferior MPEG-2 file.

No kidding, but there's still no reason to take the MPEG-2 file being transmitted via satellite, then convert it to analog, then convert it to a larger, inferior MPEG-2 file. I don't know how many times I can say the same thing.
That's a valid point and part of why I'm for banning them from the site all together, but again...

Quote:
Originally Posted by scratchie
Maybe not to you, but it matters to some of us.
The irony that you propose a 'standard' for digital capture but have no standards for old analogs.
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  #48  
Old 2008-05-15, 06:43 PM
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Re: Re-encoded digital video

I'm sorry, but I don't think the concept of analogue tape to digital conversion should fall into a thread titled "Re-encoded digital video". I'm not re-encoding from tape, I'm encoding. There is a big difference. It seems any dummy would know that.
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  #49  
Old 2008-05-15, 06:49 PM
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Re: Re-encoded digital video

Quote:
Originally Posted by direwolf-pgh View Post
i dont believe you can argue a video is lossy due to D/A converters..
MPEG2 is lossy format, and as such any meddling in frame structure and bitrate must be done by re-compression and compression. It doesn't (much) matter if it is D>A>D or D>D.

Quote:
if we go down that route then everything should be banned as lossy.
It is lossy but there is no other source unless we have Robin Hood representatives in all TV stations
Quote:
Originally Posted by direwolf-pgh View Post
is it possible for digital video or audio files to not be processed by D/A converters?
Jesus, man, read above: PVR and DVB cards.
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  #50  
Old 2008-05-15, 07:06 PM
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Re: Re-encoded digital video

Quote:
Originally Posted by pawel View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by direwolf-pgh View Post
i dont believe you can argue a video is lossy due to D/A converters..
MPEG2 is lossy format, and as such any meddling in frame structure and bitrate must be done by re-compression and compression. It doesn't (much) matter if it is D>A>D or D>D.


It is lossy but there is no other source unless we have Robin Hood representatives in all TV stations
Quote:
Originally Posted by direwolf-pgh View Post
is it possible for digital video or audio files to not be processed by D/A converters?
Jesus, man, read above: PVR and DVB cards.
jesus, man what ? am i frustrating you ? so sorry.

all these points have already been made.. i dont believe you've read every post.

IMO this entire digital mumbojumbo is just that. a big waste of talk.
yeah...most everything in digital video is currently lossy at some point in the chain.

points we've gone over so far:

1. your MPEG files ...lossy
2. ac3..... lossy
3. D/A converters... eh, lossy kinda.. but not really.. but kinda.
4. there is ZERO signal quality lost transferring standard PAL via a S-Video cable
5. give it 3-5 more years & then we talk/trade lossless video
6. 72mm film still pwns.
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8. I forget what eight was for.
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10. ten..ten..ten. TEN! For everything! everything! everything! everything !!

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  #51  
Old 2008-05-15, 07:22 PM
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Re: Re-encoded digital video

Quote:
Originally Posted by direwolf-pgh
give it 3-5 more years & then we talk/trade lossless video
I think it'll be much sooner than that.
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  #52  
Old 2008-05-15, 10:56 PM
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Re: Re-encoded digital video

Quote:
Originally Posted by schmoe75 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by scratchie
Given a choice between a DVD of a 20-year-old videotape encoded on a standalone and no DVD at all, I know which one I'd choose.
Why does the same logic not apply to a digi broadcast?
Because, with an obscure 20-year-old videotape, the chances are pretty slim that there's an alternate source. With a current digital broadcast, there are, hypothetically, lots of different TTD members who could capture it. I hope this helps clear up your confusion.

Quote:
Who says because it was aired last week that it was recorded in any format other than a standalone or that you will ever see it?
At some TV-oriented torrent sites, people plan in advance who is going to capture what show, so that the members know that they're going to get a high-quality capture. If sites that specialize in Xvid uploads can go to that trouble, why can't TTD?

Quote:
In the end, all mpeg2's are lossy, so we might as well just close VBT until everything is being released as authored .avi & .ts on blu-ray.
Well excuse the fuck out of me for trying to propose a way of improving the overall quality of videos at a site which claims to value high standards of quality above all else.
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  #53  
Old 2008-05-15, 11:55 PM
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Re: Re-encoded digital video

scratchie, they won't get your point. The bottom line is, I have the shit. I can share it from the source that I collected it 30 years ago, or I can choose not to because it dosen't conform to some new-fangled spec. I'm gonna go with "share the stuff". Never had a complaint yet. Ever been to Bull Shoals? Ozarks. Killer trout fishing on the White River. None of this bull....just fishing, time, and tunes.... I say get it out at any cost...tear down the walls...content is everything.
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  #54  
Old 2008-05-16, 05:14 AM
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Re: Re-encoded digital video

Quote:
Originally Posted by direwolf-pgh View Post
jesus, man what ? am i frustrating you ? so sorry.
You don't but you ask questions which were already answered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by direwolf-pgh View Post
5. give it 3-5 more years & then we talk/trade lossless video
I don't think so as there is nothing at the horizon providing very high compression which is not lossy. New HD standard uses lossy H.264 codec, and it's at entry point. So, maybe 10-15 years ;-)
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  #55  
Old 2008-05-16, 06:55 AM
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Re: Re-encoded digital video

Quote:
Originally Posted by pawel View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by direwolf-pgh View Post
5. give it 3-5 more years & then we talk/trade lossless video
I don't think so as there is nothing at the horizon providing very high compression which is not lossy. New HD standard uses lossy H.264 codec, and it's at entry point. So, maybe 10-15 years ;-)
i agree, there's really no evidence of any "lossless" codecs being actively developed...in all honesty, i haven't really seen anything in the industry that would point to any interest in something like that
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  #56  
Old 2008-05-16, 12:10 PM
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schmoe75 schmoe75 is offline
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Re: Re-encoded digital video

Quote:
Originally Posted by scratchie
Because, with an obscure 20-year-old videotape, the chances are pretty slim that there's an alternate source.
I'll be sure to pass along to the Dead peeps that its a waste of their time & energy to transfer the tapes properly and upgrade the audio, because you're fine with a standalone capture & cam audio.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scratchie
With a current digital broadcast, there are, hypothetically, lots of different TTD members who could capture it. I hope this helps clear up your confusion.
The show that brought this all up to begin with was only 5 years ago. How many different sources are circulating?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scratchie
At some TV-oriented torrent sites, people plan in advance who is going to capture what show, so that the members know that they're going to get a high-quality capture. If sites that specialize in Xvid uploads can go to that trouble, why can't TTD?
We aren't a tv oriented site for one and the very few peeps who actually capture tv broadcasts correctly are already doing so whether you ever see it or not.
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  #57  
Old 2008-05-16, 12:18 PM
scratchie scratchie is offline
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Re: Re-encoded digital video

Quote:
Originally Posted by schmoe75 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by scratchie
Because, with an obscure 20-year-old videotape, the chances are pretty slim that there's an alternate source.
I'll be sure to pass along to the Dead peeps that its a waste of their time & energy to transfer the tapes properly and upgrade the audio, because you're fine with a standalone capture & cam audio.
It may astonish you to discover that there are actually more obscure bootlegged artists than the Grateful Dead.
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  #58  
Old 2008-05-16, 12:22 PM
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Re: Re-encoded digital video

"obscure bootlegged artists"....great excuse for having no standard for analog.
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  #59  
Old 2008-05-16, 12:23 PM
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Re: Re-encoded digital video

Quote:
Originally Posted by scratchie View Post
At some TV-oriented torrent sites, people plan in advance who is going to capture what show, so that the members know that they're going to get a high-quality capture. If sites that specialize in Xvid uploads can go to that trouble, why can't TTD?
You are welcome to start a thread and try and get TV captures organized. I think it's a good idea, I'm just not sure what the best way, or place, is for this to get organized.
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  #60  
Old 2008-05-16, 12:42 PM
scratchie scratchie is offline
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Re: Re-encoded digital video

Quote:
Originally Posted by U2Lynne View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by scratchie View Post
At some TV-oriented torrent sites, people plan in advance who is going to capture what show, so that the members know that they're going to get a high-quality capture. If sites that specialize in Xvid uploads can go to that trouble, why can't TTD?
You are welcome to start a thread and try and get TV captures organized. I think it's a good idea, I'm just not sure what the best way, or place, is for this to get organized.
What's the point? There doesn't seem to be any interest in improving the quality of anything but GD audience videos around here.
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