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Lossy or Lossless?
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  #31  
Old 2008-05-15, 02:56 PM
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Re: Re-encoded digital video

Quote:
Originally Posted by direwolf-pgh View Post
the loss is in the cables ?
No, the loss is at an internal converter, before standalone writes signal to HD or a DVD disc. The video part is not a big problem, at least when a low and average quality broadcast is blew up to a higher bitrate. Visual degradation is hardly visible - usually video is not as sharp as the source. Many standalone recorders, however, cannot capture pure 16:9 aspect ratio, making it 4:3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by direwolf-pgh View Post
are you running direct digital back into your television ? there are always converters.
PVR and DVB cards are directly connected to antenna/tuner, not to TV (signal). They work something like downloading a zip file from Internet, they catch transport stream which may not only contain video and multiple audio but also subtitles, electronic program guide, text info etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by direwolf-pgh View Post
i already stated that everyone understands the sound part (if it captures LPCM then all is well)
Not always. LPCM signal is broadcast by analog terrestrial TV only. All TV channels on satellite and terrestrial DVB use MP2 and/or AC3 compression. HD TV may use Advance Audio Compression format.
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  #32  
Old 2008-05-15, 03:16 PM
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Re: Re-encoded digital video

cool info.. thanks pawel

i was reading up on this site as well: http://www.dolby.com/professional/pr...digitaltv.html

i dont believe you can argue a video is lossy due to D/A converters..
if we go down that route then everything should be banned as lossy.
is it possible for digital video or audio files to not be processed by D/A converters?
it just strikes me as unrealistic.

help me out if this thought is out-of-sync

Last edited by direwolf-pgh; 2008-05-15 at 03:22 PM.
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  #33  
Old 2008-05-15, 03:16 PM
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Re: Re-encoded digital video

i'm not for banning SA transfers entirely, yet...its still far more accessible and cost/time efficient for most, i know many tapers who still use them for seeding out their masters...but i can see the point when it comes to digi sat broadcasts...we should probly discuss that in staff

[i will say i don't record off of tv and i'd never buy a SA DVD recorder, so my knowledge re: the current technologies is a bit lacking...i do know there's far too many variations these days in broadcast streams/quality]
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  #34  
Old 2008-05-15, 03:18 PM
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Re: Re-encoded digital video

Quote:
Originally Posted by direwolf-pgh View Post
i dont believe you can argue a video is lossy due to D/A converters..
if we go down that route then everything should be banned as lossy.
it just strikes me as unrealistic.
It's not because of the d/a conversion; it's because you're taking a compressed format, de-compressing it (to analog) and then re-compressing it. It's the same as if you played an MP3, then captured that analog audio stream and converted it back to MP3.
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  #35  
Old 2008-05-15, 03:26 PM
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Re: Re-encoded digital video

Makes sense to me scratchmeister.
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  #36  
Old 2008-05-15, 03:27 PM
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Re: Re-encoded digital video

Quote:
Originally Posted by scratchie View Post
It's not because of the d/a conversion; it's because you're taking a compressed format, de-compressing it (to analog) and then re-compressing it. It's the same as if you played an MP3, then captured that analog audio stream and converted it back to MP3.
i dont believe this analogy is correct. mpeg2 is compression by definition...
your statement makes it sound like they convert to divx and back..
this is not the case to my understanding. there is NO analog tuner being used..its a digital firewire/usb connection from source to burner

Quote:
Originally Posted by vladsmythe View Post
Makes sense to me scratchmeister.
another clue there is an issue with your statement.

Last edited by direwolf-pgh; 2008-05-15 at 03:34 PM.
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  #37  
Old 2008-05-15, 03:38 PM
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Re: Re-encoded digital video

ZOINKERS!
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  #38  
Old 2008-05-15, 03:57 PM
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Re: Re-encoded digital video

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Originally Posted by direwolf-pgh View Post
its a digital firewire/usb connection from source to burner
No, it's not. Go back and read the third post in this thread.
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  #39  
Old 2008-05-15, 03:58 PM
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direwolf-pgh direwolf-pgh is offline
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Re: Re-encoded digital video

Quote:
Originally Posted by scratchie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by direwolf-pgh View Post
its a digital firewire/usb connection from source to burner
No, it's not. Go back and read the third post in this thread.
sorry.. Im not speaking about that seed in particular.. I/we were speaking of standalone recorders in general.

I thought we were maybe it was just me.

as to your point/question..see the second post
Quote:
Originally Posted by schmoe75 View Post
The video wasn't re-encoded. The audio was converted from AC3 to LPCM which accounts for the 'bloated' size. AC3 audio converted to LPCM, though accomplishes nothing since its lossy sourced, is not a problem as long as the video isn't re-encoded.

Last edited by direwolf-pgh; 2008-05-15 at 04:03 PM.
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  #40  
Old 2008-05-15, 04:06 PM
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Re: Re-encoded digital video

whats wrong with S-Video i dont understand your point scratchie.

this is not a 1080p seed - it matters not.

digital satellite box & HDTV..two very different things.
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  #41  
Old 2008-05-15, 04:21 PM
scratchie scratchie is offline
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Re: Re-encoded digital video

Quote:
Originally Posted by direwolf-pgh View Post
whats wrong with S-Video i dont understand your point scratchie.
Obviously not. My point is that S-Video is still analog, and when you're receiving a digital transmission -- i.e., an MPEG-2 file -- there's no reason to convert it to analog and then convert it back to a larger, inferior MPEG-2 file.

Quote:
this is not a 1080p seed - it matters not.
Maybe not to you, but it matters to some of us. By the same logic, you could say "This isn't a digital soundboard, what does it matter if I posted a version that was converted from MP3?"

Quote:
digital satellite box & HDTV..two very different things.
No kidding, but there's still no reason to take the MPEG-2 file being transmitted via satellite, then convert it to analog, then convert it to a larger, inferior MPEG-2 file. I don't know how many times I can say the same thing.
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  #42  
Old 2008-05-15, 04:27 PM
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Re: Re-encoded digital video

scratchie.. i dont know much, but i know you're wrong

Quote:
S-Video, as most commonly implemented, carries 480i or 576i resolution video, i.e. standard definition video, but does not carry audio on the same cable.
there is no loss in the cable for the lines of resolution.

IF it was a HDTV broadcast (which you couldnt capture anyway due to DRM on satellite box), then converted to PAL... yeah, that could be considered lossy..i guess.

but that isnt the case, is it? its a PAL signal & its still a PAL signal.
there is no loss in the signal. S-video patch is fine for the task.

please prove me wrong please.
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  #43  
Old 2008-05-15, 05:25 PM
scratchie scratchie is offline
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Re: Re-encoded digital video

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Originally Posted by direwolf-pgh View Post
please prove me wrong please.
Sorry, life's too short.
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  #44  
Old 2008-05-15, 06:21 PM
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Re: Re-encoded digital video

Quote:
Originally Posted by scratchie
Given a choice between a DVD of a 20-year-old videotape encoded on a standalone and no DVD at all, I know which one I'd choose.
Why does the same logic not apply to a digi broadcast?
Who says because it was aired last week that it was recorded in any format other than a standalone or that you will ever see it?

In the end, all mpeg2's are lossy, so we might as well just close VBT until everything is being released as authored .avi & .ts on blu-ray.
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  #45  
Old 2008-05-15, 06:26 PM
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Re: Re-encoded digital video

Quote:
Originally Posted by direwolf-pgh
i see video capture cards ranging from $50 to $1500... they cant all be the same quality
Nope they aren't the same and what's the next requirement? You can only seed here if you capture with "X" card, "X" software, "X" settings for render, etc...
Quote:
Originally Posted by direwolf-pgh
is NTSC so low grade video it doesnt matter
Yes, Never The Same Color sux monkey balls.
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