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  #16  
Old 2005-03-09, 07:43 PM
h_vargas
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Re: Best way to store all these downloads?

i respectfully disagree with the comment that Case Logic cases are best for storing CDRs. i had a Case Logic a long time ago, several of them in fact, before i knew better. the plastic sleeves in those seem to scratch up discs quicker than if i just leave the CDRs laying on a table. unless maybe you just put the discs in the Case Logic case and never take them out...


RainDawg - i have a question about par2. i saw you mention it a little while back. i downloaded the program to create par2 files, and used it once or twice, but then my mind began wandering...

the par2 files create the "backup" data to restore unreadable contents on the data disc (DVDR/CDR), correct? well, what if the disc corrupts/degrades in a way such that part of the original files are unreadable (let's say 10%) and part of the par2 file(s) are unreadable (again, let's say 10%). wouldn't that mean that there's still come of the disc contents that will be completely unrecoverable? i mean, if some of the par2 file(s) are unreadable plus normal contents archived on the disc are unreadable, it seems as though the par2 system would fail in that scenario... however unlikely that scenario would be.

just trying to figure out if it's worth my time to use par2 for every archived show i have. i will be re-archving literally thousands of data CDRs (in SHN, FLAC, and a couple of other lossless compressed formats) all to DVDR to have a 2nd backup soon. so i'd like to go about my re-archiving/2nd backup as efficiently as possible.
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  #17  
Old 2005-03-09, 08:46 PM
ffooky ffooky is offline
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Re: Best way to store all these downloads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainDawg
The iPod responded to their customers' desire to have a lossless audio player, but instead of supporting already mande formats, they developed their own closed-and-copyrighted format, which is bigger and less usable than FLAC.
It's only half-closed now but still unnecessary.
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  #18  
Old 2005-03-10, 12:21 AM
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Re: Best way to store all these downloads?

Yes that would be a problem when using par2 files. I also have been considering using it when archiving, it has worked well in several cases of getting suff off the newsgroups. I wonder if a separate disc for the parfiles would work better? One reason I haven't started using it is the fact that I tend to stuff a bunch of shows on DVD and would need to figure out how much room is left for the par2 and set the parameters to fill the disc, but if I just put the data on a couple discs and the par2s on another I would then need to link them somehow. Maybe by using burntothebrim set for some set value I could always leave at least so much room to build parfiles, now that DL discs are an option though still costly this is more of an issue. Sorry to ramble on so, just tired from flying or sitting in planes all day.
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  #19  
Old 2005-03-10, 08:09 AM
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Re: Best way to store all these downloads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by h_vargas
well, what if the disc corrupts/degrades in a way such that part of the original files are unreadable (let's say 10%) and part of the par2 file(s) are unreadable (again, let's say 10%). wouldn't that mean that there's still come of the disc contents that will be completely unrecoverable? i mean, if some of the par2 file(s) are unreadable plus normal contents archived on the disc are unreadable, it seems as though the par2 system would fail in that scenario... however unlikely that scenario would be.
You are correct, if 20% of the content of the disc becomes corrupted, irregardless of whether or not it's the actual files or the par2 recovery volumes, then you will be unable to recover. Par2 recovery is an "all-or-nothing" affair, and so if you don't have enough good files and recovery volumes to do it, then the only thinkg you're left with are the files that were good from the start. Just to clear something up: it doesn't matter if you lose actual files or par2 recovery volumes, but only the total amount of filesize of the lost files. If you lose more of a % of the total filesize than the redundancy you used when creating the volumes, you're screwed, regardless of which type of file becomes corrupted.

When I make the par2 files, I break up the entire bunch into about 10-12 different files, each containing some of the recovery blocks. This means that if 1 or 2 of them get corrupted, I still have a good deal of chance of complete recovery. In my experience, it's really only 1 or 2 files that can become unreadable on a DVD, and 20% is really overkill in my opinion, which is why I use it. Media is cheap enough that I want to make damn sure I can recover my files. You could go 30% or 40% if you were still afraid of losing more than that, with the obvious ramification being you'll need more space to store the discs. Honestly though, if you store the discs in jewel cases and are gentle with them when using them, they are reliable enough that 20% is big enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by h_vargas
just trying to figure out if it's worth my time to use par2 for every archived show i have. i will be re-archving literally thousands of data CDRs (in SHN, FLAC, and a couple of other lossless compressed formats) all to DVDR to have a 2nd backup soon. so i'd like to go about my re-archiving/2nd backup as efficiently as possible.
I would say, if the show is worth keeping, it's worth using par2. Since you're at the front end of a major re-archiving project, do yourself a favor and do it right the first time. Media is very cheap. The chance that some of your shows will be partially corrupted in 5 years is pretty high, but with this method it drops it down to almost zero. Since you don't have a way of knowing ahead of time which shows you're going to lose, in my opinion it's best to be secure, especially given small cost associated with this option.

I would also consider doing things like correcting sector boundaries and adding file tags to all of the files during the transition too, but that's a topic for another thread.
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  #20  
Old 2005-03-10, 08:15 AM
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Re: Best way to store all these downloads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by diggrd
Yes that would be a problem when using par2 files. I also have been considering using it when archiving, it has worked well in several cases of getting suff off the newsgroups. I wonder if a separate disc for the parfiles would work better? One reason I haven't started using it is the fact that I tend to stuff a bunch of shows on DVD and would need to figure out how much room is left for the par2 and set the parameters to fill the disc, but if I just put the data on a couple discs and the par2s on another I would then need to link them somehow. Maybe by using burntothebrim set for some set value I could always leave at least so much room to build parfiles, now that DL discs are an option though still costly this is more of an issue. Sorry to ramble on so, just tired from flying or sitting in planes all day.
Another good solution, though not one I prefer to use. Since DVDRs can handle 4.7 GB of unformatted data, my method is to select around 3.7GB of shows that need to be burned. QuickPar will show you the total data size of the files you're attempting to secure and the data size of the recovery volumes you're making. I up the redundancy until it equals about 4.69 to make sure I get the maximum amount of recovery possible.

It should be noted that the entire sets need to be reconstructed at once. So, if at any point in my trading/listening/tinkering with my DVDs I find one unreadable file, I immediately extract the entire thing, run the recovery, re-create the par2 volumes from the newly reconstructed files, and re-burn the disc.

I've only had to do this once, but it's worth it if that one show that goes bad is a rare gem. I figure that over 5-10 years I'll have to do this 10+ more times, and I'd rather be secure than have to worry later about finding the show again....
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  #21  
Old 2005-03-10, 09:25 AM
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Tahoetoeknee Tahoetoeknee is offline
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Re: Best way to store all these downloads?

Here's how I keep my shows, I have maybe 1500 discs or more and it's just 2/3 full. Got it at target 15 bucks
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  #22  
Old 2005-03-10, 09:26 AM
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Tahoetoeknee Tahoetoeknee is offline
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Re: Best way to store all these downloads?

pick 2
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  #23  
Old 2005-03-10, 09:28 AM
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Tahoetoeknee Tahoetoeknee is offline
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Re: Best way to store all these downloads?

I do like them DJ cases, but I'd need a shitload of them...
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  #24  
Old 2005-03-10, 03:56 PM
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rherron rherron is offline
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Re: Best way to store all these downloads?

Tahoetoeknee, thanks for those pics. They have inspired me. We have Targets and I have $15. Great solution and cheap.

I have renovated two house built in the 1920s on my own. I'm pretty handy. I think I could make some nice dividers for the drawers -- maybe cover the 2x4s in black felt or something.

I'll figure something out. You've given me some ideas. Give me about a week and I'll maybe post some pics of my own.

Anyone else ever done anything like this?

Thanks,
Rob

P.S. DiscSox does sell nice alphabetical dividers pretty cheaply. They'd fit nicely in those drawers.

http://www.discsox.com/graphics/products/fai_div.jpg
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  #25  
Old 2005-03-14, 12:09 AM
snaimpally snaimpally is offline
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Re: Best way to store all these downloads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jraras
Does burning a DVD from the files provided in a BT here at TTD, then ripping it via Decryptor into the VIDEO_TS etc. files have the same negative effect of burning .wav's from FLAC onto a redbook CD and then EAC'ing them back to .wav? Or does the DVD format address this problem so it is a moot point?

I guess the practical issue I'm trying to deal with is if I should burn data discs and DVD's of all my downloaded DVD's. Also, when doing a trade or b&p should one send a data disc with the contents of the torrent, or an actual DVD that is ready to be popped into a player and watched?

Thanks in advance (btw, I checked the FAQ, but couldn't find anything pertaining to this specifically for DVD, just stuff on audio).

best,
Jim
Good question. Audio files go from .wav to a compressed form, such as .shn, .flac, .ape etc. prior to being posted for download. But video files undergo no such conversion. The video_ts folder, with the vob (Video OBject) and ifo (InFO) files from the DVD are posted directly for download.

There is no intermediate encoding to a compressed form for video as there is for audio. Why? For one thing, wav is a very ineffecient format and can be comprssed 2:1 using a lossless format whereas video is in mpeg format and is already compressed. Mpeg video essentially compresses by storing only the differences between one frame and the next.
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  #26  
Old 2005-03-14, 12:19 AM
snaimpally snaimpally is offline
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Re: Best way to store all these downloads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahoetoeknee
pick 2
Thanks for the pic! That gives me some ideas. I like the 2x4 - nice touch. You might check Container Store, they have something similar but with little plastic dividers for dividing the drawer so that you don't have to use lumber.
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  #27  
Old 2005-03-14, 12:33 AM
snaimpally snaimpally is offline
snaimpally
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Re: Best way to store all these downloads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rherron
Tahoetoeknee, thanks for those pics. They have inspired me. We have Targets and I have $15. Great solution and cheap.

I have renovated two house built in the 1920s on my own. I'm pretty handy. I think I could make some nice dividers for the drawers -- maybe cover the 2x4s in black felt or something.

I'll figure something out. You've given me some ideas. Give me about a week and I'll maybe post some pics of my own.

Anyone else ever done anything like this?

Thanks,
Rob

P.S. DiscSox does sell nice alphabetical dividers pretty cheaply. They'd fit nicely in those drawers.

http://www.discsox.com/graphics/products/fai_div.jpg
Anyone used the discsox sleeve system? Looks intriguing ...
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  #28  
Old 2005-03-14, 07:20 AM
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RainDawg RainDawg is offline
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Re: Best way to store all these downloads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by snaimpally
For one thing, wav is a very ineffecient format and can be comprssed 2:1 using a lossless format whereas video is in mpeg format and is already compressed. Mpeg video essentially compresses by storing only the differences between one frame and the next.
Note also the MPEG is a LOSSY compression scheme. Depending on the desired bitrate of the output, more or less information will be discarded, but there will always be some. There is no analog to .wav/.flac in the video world, and so we use these lossy compression schemes with the understanding that high bitrate (like those for DVDs) is the best we're going to get. Once it's been encoded to DVD-quality MPEG-2, there is no reason to ever have it encur more loss than it has already, and as such our rules state that DVD is the standard.
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  #29  
Old 2005-03-14, 04:24 PM
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Question Re: Best way to store all these downloads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jraras
I guess the practical issue I'm trying to deal with is if I should burn data discs and DVD's of all my downloaded DVD's.
Anyone have any thoughts on this? I've been wonderig myself and need to start burning (and backing up, if necessary) some videos that I've downloaded.

Also, thanks Raindawg for the info on par2, Music Collector and Karma. Amazing all that you can learn from one thread!!
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  #30  
Old 2005-03-14, 05:06 PM
ffooky ffooky is offline
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Re: Best way to store all these downloads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by snaimpally
Thanks for the pic! That gives me some ideas. I like the 2x4 - nice touch. You might check Container Store, they have something similar but with little plastic dividers for dividing the drawer so that you don't have to use lumber.
Forget Readers' Wives...it's Readers' Storage Solutions
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