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Lossy or Lossless? Please use this forum to post spectral and frequency analysis posts about shows you have your doubts about.

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  #46  
Old 2007-09-08, 01:53 AM
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Re: Modern Day FMs

sure, whenever you get the chance

Quote:
Originally Posted by procella
What happened? Had no intention to put this pic into the thread. Thought I just uploaded like the others before.
if you attatch only one pic it displays in the thread, if you put 2 or 3 there are just links.

so this pic reveals that the 'red stripe' at 16kHz is not on the tape, it is from the transfer. the beginning black part should be silent since the tape has not started yet (no bias noise).
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  #47  
Old 2007-09-08, 08:14 AM
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Re: Modern Day FMs

Just trying to find some good examples for the broadcast of Dutch station VPRO over the years. But will take some time probably.
While looking I stumbled over this one: Sly and the Family Stone - Piknik VPRO 1971FM - 1970-09-10. It is up here on the Den. Looks pretty modern for its age.
Attached Images
File Type: gif vpro71-fa.gif
( 16.3 KB, 2 views)
 
File Type: gif vpro71-sa.gif
( 730.6 KB, 2 views)
 
File Type: gif vpro71-sa2.gif
( 669.8 KB, 3 views)
 
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  #48  
Old 2007-09-08, 06:47 PM
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Re: Modern Day FMs

VPRO did a bunch of rebroadcasts just a couple years ago... this is probably from that, not from the original 1971 broadcast from what I can gather.

I'm trying to find some pure unaltered broadcasts from that era to post some examples, haven't turned up anything yet...
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  #49  
Old 2007-09-09, 09:41 AM
procella procella is offline
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Re: Modern Day FMs

Hope you find some. But better not try VPROs. Dl'ed one track from 3 or 4 of their old ones now and all looked modern. And the uploaders all stated that this was from 60s or 70s broadcast.
And, well, the other way round. I was asked on DIME to have a look at some BBC sessions from Sleater-Kinney someone wants to upload there. I don't know the date of these shows but this band exists since around 1995 only. And two of those look exactly like a bad 80s FM. Not lossy and not completely dark above cutoff but one cuts off at 8 Khz, the other at 10 Khz. Did you ever see something new which looked bad like that?
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  #50  
Old 2007-09-10, 04:42 AM
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Re: Modern Day FMs

Here are four examples of pure digital captures via a DVB-S card:
1. WDR FM Radio (classic music), AC3 448 kbps
2. same as [1] but MP2 192 kbps
3. WDR Rockpalast TV, AC3 448 kbps
4. same as [3] but MP2 192 kbps

AC3 was imported to Adobe Audition via freeware plugin: http://www.vuplayer.com/audition.php
Attached Images
File Type: gif WDR_radio_AC3_448.gif
( 85.0 KB, 18 views)
 
File Type: gif WDR_radio_MP2_192.gif
( 104.3 KB, 17 views)
 
File Type: gif Rockpalast2007_AC3_448.gif
( 91.5 KB, 27 views)
 
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  #51  
Old 2007-09-10, 04:43 AM
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Re: Modern Day FMs

#4 Rockpalast TV 192 kbps
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File Type: gif Rockpalast2007_MP2_192.gif
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  #52  
Old 2007-09-11, 12:18 PM
procella procella is offline
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Re: Modern Day FMs

Found one fine 70s US broadcast. But not a typical one shurely. Was remastered and released on a boot CD.
Attached Images
File Type: gif Bruce Springsteen 1975-02-05 FM-fa.gif
( 13.4 KB, 4 views)
 
File Type: gif Bruce Springsteen 1975-02-05-sa.gif
( 628.7 KB, 3 views)
 
File Type: gif Bruce Springsteen 1975-02-05-sa2 .gif
( 551.1 KB, 3 views)
 
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  #53  
Old 2007-09-11, 01:12 PM
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Re: Modern Day FMs

that springsteen doesn't look typical at all! maybe its prefm? or somehow a lot of highs have been generated...

another thing that dawned on me is that cassettes can't record the upper highs so that's probably why I'm having trouble finding older fms with the carrier visible.

Pawel, the first three are pretty decent, look to be similar in quality to an MD (atrac) recording. but the 4th is lower-quality than 128kbps cbr mp3.

I don't understand the bitrates... the one that says '192kbps' is not like an mp3 at 192kbps I guess its something with the different codec?

I'm not sure how we would go about allowing the kind of captures you're posting... so long as its recorded well and the cutoff it above 16kHz it would be similar or slightly better in quality than some of the modern fm 'open air' broadcasts we've allowed here. Right now we have the advantage of allowing stuff taped from the open air and not allowing stuff that isn't. Its a real can of worms to try to suss out which digital sources are okay and which are not. They usually don't look (or presumably sound) as high quality as the first three you've posted above.
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  #54  
Old 2007-09-12, 04:36 AM
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Re: Modern Day FMs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five
I don't understand the bitrates... the one that says '192kbps' is not like an mp3 at 192kbps I guess its something with the different codec?

I'm not sure how we would go about allowing the kind of captures you're posting
He he, so you would have to ban all DVDs from Rockpalast , unless they are DVB captures with secondary AC3 stream. All 192kbps are in MP2 format as filename say.
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  #55  
Old 2007-09-12, 10:56 AM
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Re: Modern Day FMs

lol... okay, I see what you mean. those wouldn't be allowed in the audio section, but are okay in the video section.

I meant the audio-only broadcasts.. #1 and #2 are audio-only broadcasts, correct?
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  #56  
Old 2007-09-12, 02:10 PM
procella procella is offline
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Re: Modern Day FMs

[quote=Five]that springsteen doesn't look typical at all! maybe its prefm? or somehow a lot of highs have been generated...

You're right, Five. Pre-FM. Was announced as a broadcast master. But in the discussion it turned out to be the remaster which was sourced from Pre-FM. My mistake. Looked too good to be true, actually.
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  #57  
Old 2007-09-13, 08:17 AM
procella procella is offline
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Re: Modern Day FMs

One of the oldest FMs I have. A Dutch broadcast from 1980. Taped by the same person who uploaded it to DaD.
Source : FM > Cassette > Audacity > CD WAVE Editor > FLAC
Attached Images
File Type: gif FischerZ 1980-05-17 FM-sa .gif
( 583.6 KB, 4 views)
 
File Type: gif FischerZ 1980-05-17 FM-sa2 .gif
( 675.5 KB, 4 views)
 
File Type: gif FischerZ 1980-05-17 FM-fa .gif
( 10.9 KB, 3 views)
 
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  #58  
Old 2007-09-13, 08:48 AM
procella procella is offline
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Re: Modern Day FMs

Now yesterday it got reupped.

FM (maybe VARA Radio) > Cassette > Audacity > CD WAVE Editor > FLAC > dime > wav > MAGIX cleaning Lab Version 2003 > WAV > FLACs (SBE Level8)

After being asked the uploader stated: 'Yes, i used the dehisser-function from magix and something else'.

Sa and Fa look different now clearly. The result of dehissing? Or was it the 'something else'?
Actually I think it sounds worse now than before when listening to it on my computer. 'Though the difference is not big.
Attached Images
File Type: gif FischerZ 1980-05-17 FM R-sa1 .gif
( 603.9 KB, 2 views)
 
File Type: gif FischerZ 1980-05-17 FM R-sa2 .gif
( 556.7 KB, 5 views)
 
File Type: gif FischerZ 1980-05-17 FM R-fa .gif
( 11.7 KB, 2 views)
 
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  #59  
Old 2007-09-13, 09:55 AM
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Re: Modern Day FMs

looks like the dehissed version is from a different source, as it has more frequency response in the highs

here's an old one with the carrier intact... not sure if its a rebroadcast or taped back in the day.

Herbie Hancock and Headhunters 1974-11-06 Sendesaal, Radio Bremen, Germany (16-bit) (FLAC)
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File Type: jpg herb2sp5.jpg
( 72.6 KB, 40 views)
 
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  #60  
Old 2007-09-14, 12:05 PM
procella procella is offline
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Re: Modern Day FMs

I found this broadcast from 1997. Looks good. But carrier is much weaker. Concert was in Hamburg. Station wasn't mentioned, unfortunately. But probably it was aired by one of those North German stations.
Attached Images
File Type: gif No Doubt 1997-02-22 FM-fa.gif
( 12.8 KB, 2 views)
 
File Type: gif No Doubt 1997-02-22 FM-sa.gif
( 707.3 KB, 3 views)
 
File Type: gif No Doubt 1997-02-22 FM-sa2.gif
( 684.9 KB, 2 views)
 
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