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  #16  
Old 2007-08-19, 05:21 PM
Tubular
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Re: Recommendations for ripping 16-bit and 24-bit to flac

Have you tried playing back the 24/96 .aif files that have been renamed to .wav in foobar2000 (free)? That would be a good indication that the audio data is OK and that renaming them worked.
http://www.foobar2000.org/

Windows Media Player can't play 24 bit files unless you have a 24 bit soundcard, I think.
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  #17  
Old 2007-08-19, 06:26 PM
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GRC GRC is offline
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Re: Recommendations for ripping 16-bit and 24-bit to flac

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubular
btw, I'm definitely not an analog tape expert. What is 'tape baking'?
Darn, your avatar was so convincing. Analog tape has two layers, sometimes three - a plastic strip, a coating of magnetic material, and sometimes a matt back-coating to encourage neater winding; you need some 'glue' or binder to hold them together. In the 1970s, the formulation that Ampex used was changed, for some reason, and the new formulation was faulty, in that it reverted to a sticky, goo-ey state, rather than staying dry. The end result being that when you play some Ampex tapes from this era, they play for 5 minutes before clogging up the tape heads, guides, etc, and sometimes bringing the tape recorder to an embarassing halt. Quite a conundrum; Ampex tapes from the 1950s are better preserved and more usable than those from the 1970s......

The remedy is to slow bake the tape in a finely-controlled oven to dry it out. Once the binder has dried, the user is encouraged to play back once, twice, or an absolute minimum number of times, and make darn sure of getting a usable copy made, onto digital media or otherwise, before the binder loses its cohesion again.

That's the short version - google 'Ampex baking' or 'Ampex shedding' to get a good picture of the hoops that those in the recording industry are having to go through to salvage what is fairly recent material.

Pictures here

Regards, Graham
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  #18  
Old 2007-08-19, 08:11 PM
Tubular
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Re: Recommendations for ripping 16-bit and 24-bit to flac

Oh man, that's terrible. I wonder how many classic albums and shows from the 70s were recorded on Ampex tape? Or did most US and UK studios use a different brand of tape for their 2" multitrack masters? Well, if the tape is unusable, at least the vinyl can be transferred if it isn't too worn out. Oh, I got my avatar from here: http://www.analogstereo.com/
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  #19  
Old 2007-08-20, 11:56 PM
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Re: Recommendations for ripping 16-bit and 24-bit to flac

wow there's a lot going on here I'll probably get a chance to read more of it tomorrow

the one big thing I noticed that is a problem is that you can't just rename aif files to wav ... just like if I renamed a shn file to wav it doesn't make it a wav. you can open the aif in a wav editor and resave as wav, or perhaps make the conversion using foobar2000

there's an old tutorial over here, it is for shn to flac but should work for aif to wav. the audio content in the aif and wav will be identical since they're both lossless, just a little bit different formatting.

also, if you've got TLH installed you can run shntool from cmd.exe but in this case I don't think that will help you due to the renamed files.
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  #20  
Old 2007-08-20, 11:59 PM
Tubular
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Re: Recommendations for ripping 16-bit and 24-bit to flac

I can rename a 16 bit .wav to .aif and it will play fine, even in Windows Media Player
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  #21  
Old 2007-08-21, 01:21 AM
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Re: Recommendations for ripping 16-bit and 24-bit to flac

I just tried it out, renamed wav>aif or aif>wav opens and plays fine in winamp or cep, but foobar0.8.3 and TLH both choke on it.

so make a proper conversion from aif>wav and tlh will be happy... seems like its some little thing in the header, like you were saying a few posts up.
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  #22  
Old 2007-08-21, 03:04 AM
Tubular
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Re: Recommendations for ripping 16-bit and 24-bit to flac

I just tested a 24/96 .wav in shntool:

Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Documents and Settings\Tube>cd C:\

C:\>shntool len les2007-08-11.mk41v.m222.mk21.cmc6.flac24/*.wav
length expanded size cdr WAVE problems filename
3:37.425 125236988 cxx -- ----- les2007-08-11.mk41v.m222.mk21.
cmc6.flac24/les2007-08-11t17.wav
3:37.425 125236988 B (total for 1 file, 1.0000 over
all compression ratio)

C:\>

I then renamed the extension to .aif, and the file wouldn't play in foobar2000 v0.9.4.3. TLH also choked on it.

Then I renamed it back to its original .wav extension, and the file played back in foobar2000 fine, and I got the same shntool result as above. TLH also accepted it.

I don't think renaming the extension has any impact; I think the header reverts back to the .wav format upon renaming. Oh shit, just thought of this: GRC, do you have your Windows system set to show file extensions? The default is to hide them. Thanks Bill Gates. Go to any folder on your desktop or C:\ drive or anywhere and go to Tools > Folder Options > View > make sure the 'Hide extensions for known file types' box is UNCHECKED. Then hit 'apply', then 'ok'. That should do it.

Last edited by Tubular; 2007-08-21 at 03:10 AM.
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  #23  
Old 2007-08-21, 03:53 AM
Tubular
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Re: Recommendations for ripping 16-bit and 24-bit to flac

It's funny, I actually think the low cost BOB, DFC, ~8' stand, CA (Church Audio) STO 10 Omni's (J-Disk) > CA ST-9100 Preamp > Microtrack (TRS) @ 24/48 absolutely destroys the multimillion dollar Schoeps hypercards/tubes + wide cards/cmc6 > V3 > Sound Devices 744 (@24/96) for that Claypool show.
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  #24  
Old 2007-08-21, 03:54 AM
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Re: Recommendations for ripping 16-bit and 24-bit to flac

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubular
I don't think renaming the extension has any impact; I think the header reverts back to the .wav format upon renaming.
the header is not changed by altering the extension. just the extension. in your experiment above you gave the wav an incorrect extension then switched it back to what it should be. windows even warns you that it is not a good idea.

an aif file with the extension altered to wav is still an aif file except with the incorrect extension. so GRC needs to do a proper conversion aif>wav.
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  #25  
Old 2007-08-21, 04:01 AM
Tubular
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Re: Recommendations for ripping 16-bit and 24-bit to flac

If renaming it is actually incorrect, then why can a 16 bit .wav renamed to .aif play back fine in Windows media player? The picture for the file changes. I still don't get it.
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  #26  
Old 2007-08-21, 04:09 AM
Tubular
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Re: Recommendations for ripping 16-bit and 24-bit to flac

some players can handle an incorrect header and some can't?
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  #27  
Old 2007-08-21, 04:13 AM
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Re: Recommendations for ripping 16-bit and 24-bit to flac

an incorrect extension can be handled by some players

the header is different, and is not changed by altering the extension
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  #28  
Old 2007-08-21, 04:19 AM
Tubular
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Re: Recommendations for ripping 16-bit and 24-bit to flac

got it Can you convert .aif to .wav with Audacity or another free program?
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  #29  
Old 2007-08-21, 04:24 AM
rhinowing rhinowing is offline
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Re: Recommendations for ripping 16-bit and 24-bit to flac

I believe that xAct will do it. Not sure though, I don't know macs too well.
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  #30  
Old 2007-08-21, 04:35 AM
Tubular
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Re: Recommendations for ripping 16-bit and 24-bit to flac

In the helper programs section of the shntool page here there is an aiff program for use with shntool. Everything there is free: http://www.etree.org/shnutils/shntool/
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