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  #16  
Old 2007-07-18, 08:30 PM
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Re: EAC configuration, offsets, etc...

Arrrghh! I have overread on Lead-In only (no overread on Lead-Out). Since I have "a negative read offset or a positive read offset correction [I need] overreading into the Lead-Out in order to have no missing samples on extraction".

I was determined to settle this once and for all (with your help). This is the result of my best effort to properly set up EAC for lossless extraction. And, the final answer is that I will need to purchase a new drive.

Thanks for the help. At least I now know that my efforts are in vain with this gear.
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  #17  
Old 2007-07-19, 12:35 PM
Tubular
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Re: EAC configuration, offsets, etc...

Have you tried extracting both with the "overread into lead in and lead out" box enabled and disabled? Most drives have a positive read offset correction and not all of them need "overread into lead in and lead out" enabled. My drive is a Lite-On and has a positive read offset correction, and wouldn't extract the last track properly unless "overread into lead in and lead out" was DISABLED. There would always be a read error at the very end of the last track of a disc when it was enabled.
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  #18  
Old 2007-07-20, 06:21 PM
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Re: EAC configuration, offsets, etc...

Audioarchivist... It was not my intent to hi-jack this thread (my bad).

Tubular... I have determined that my offset correction is +120 (-120 actual). It appears that I will have missing samples on extraction since this drive has no overread on the Lead-Out...

However, as you suggested I have taken a disc and extracted with "overead on the lead in and lead out" enabled and then I did it again but this time disabled. Now what? Am I to compare these filesets? What program would tell me how they differ. Where do i go from here?
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  #19  
Old 2007-07-20, 07:36 PM
Tubular
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Re: EAC configuration, offsets, etc...

Cicada, when you extract a commercial CD with little or no scratches with the read offset corrected in secure mode of EAC, do you get read or sync errors on any tracks? Or do all the tracks extract OK and you get a message of "no errors occurred" at the end of the EAC log? If there were read errors, then it will say "there were errors" at the end of the rip log. Also, what kind of drive to you have?

Or are you talking about EAC reporting missing samples when using the compare WAVs feature when comparing these:

1)a write offset corrected CD that has been extracted with the read offeset corrected

2)an original FLAC or SHN set that has been decoded to WAV
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  #20  
Old 2007-07-20, 08:26 PM
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Re: EAC configuration, offsets, etc...

Quote:
Cicada, when you extract a commercial CD with little or no scratches with the read offset corrected in secure mode of EAC, do you get read or sync errors on any tracks? Or do all the tracks extract OK and you get a message of "no errors occurred" at the end of the EAC log? If there were read errors, then it will say "there were errors" at the end of the rip log. Also, what kind of drive to you have?
I gotta go back and read your previous message about determining the offset. However, my drive is now shown clearly in the accurate rip database with great certainty (120 is the offset correction). My drive (in a compaq laptop): HL-DT-STRW/DVD GCC-4241N

But wait... My understanding of the info at Coaster Factory resulted in the statement that I would have missing samples (see link http://web.archive.org/web/20070218221907/users.pandora.be/satcp/eacoffsets02.htm

About 4/5 down the page, I found this quote
Quote:
If your drive has a negative read offset or a positive read offset correction it also needs overreading into the Lead-Out in order to have no missing samples on extraction. If the drive has a positive read offset or a negative read offset correction it needs overreading into the Lead-In. Anyway, don't worry too much if your drive cannot overread as only very few samples are missing at the beginning or end of a CD as can be read in The Truth About Offsets.
For the record:
No read or sync errors. The message I received from EAC extraction is "no errors ocurred".
I apologize for my confusion... I have not received EAC reports of missing samples. The desire to set up EAC correctly has caused me to read that Coaster Factory dissertation repeatedly, until my mind is marshmallow! As I mentioned above, I will give your earlier post another read and try to perform those operations over the weekend. Thanks!
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  #21  
Old 2007-07-20, 09:02 PM
Tubular
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Re: EAC configuration, offsets, etc...

"If your drive has a negative read offset or a positive read offset correction it also needs overreading into the Lead-Out in order to have no missing samples on extraction. If the drive has a positive read offset or a negative read offset correction it needs overreading into the Lead-In. Anyway, don't worry too much if your drive cannot overread as only very few samples are missing at the beginning or end of a CD as can be read in The Truth About Offsets."

I'm not sure how correct the above quote is. Lead in and Lead out refer to the first and last tracks of a disc, respectively. So it wouldn't happen to tracks in the middle of a disc. I think if you get missing samples on the last track of a disc when comparing these with the compare WAVs feature of EAC:

1)a write offset corrected CD that has been extracted with the read offeset corrected

2)an original FLAC or SHN set that has been decoded to WAV

then it has to do with some drives or EAC itself not being able to OVERWRITE into the lead out correctly when burning a CD, based on tests I have done.
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  #22  
Old 2007-07-20, 09:35 PM
Tubular
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Re: EAC configuration, offsets, etc...

Basically, if your read offset is properly corrected and you extract commercially made discs with EAC in secure mode and get "no errors occurred" at the end of a rip log, then there will be no missing samples on any tracks.

As I said above, my drive has a positive read offset correction (+594) and the last track of a commercial disc wouldn't extract properly without read errors unless the "overread into lead in and lead out" box in EAC menu > drive options > offset/speed was disabled.

It gets much more complicated if you are extracting home burned audio CD-Rs and comparing them to original FLAC or SHN filesets.
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  #23  
Old 2007-07-21, 03:22 AM
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Re: EAC configuration, offsets, etc...

It does not appear to have an effect with me one way or the other. I have tried "overread into lead in and lead out" enabled and disabled. I repeated this with the proper offset correction and then with no offset correct. Oddly, I get no errors reported when I extract a brand new commercially produced disc.

Here is an example of my log report
EAC extraction logfile from 20. July 2007, 18:28 for CD
Unknown Artist / Unknown Title

Used drive : HL-DT-STRW/DVD GCC-4241N Adapter: 1 ID: 0
Read mode : Secure with NO C2, accurate stream, NO disable cache
Read offset correction : 120
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : Yes

Used output format : Internal WAV Routines
44.100 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo

Other options :
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Installed external ASPI interface


Track 1
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Larry Shore\My Documents\My Music\eac\Ram120_leadinandout\Track01.wav

Peak level 96.2 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 7F7E6950
Copy CRC 7F7E6950
Copy OK

Track 2
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Larry Shore\My Documents\My Music\eac\Ram120_leadinandout\Track02.wav

Peak level 92.5 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC CB5C2084
Copy CRC CB5C2084
Copy OK

Track 3
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Larry Shore\My Documents\My Music\eac\Ram120_leadinandout\Track03.wav

Peak level 81.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 2BBB1AEB
Copy CRC 2BBB1AEB
Copy OK

Track 4
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Larry Shore\My Documents\My Music\eac\Ram120_leadinandout\Track04.wav

Peak level 79.9 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC E5E435E3
Copy CRC E5E435E3
Copy OK

Track 5
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Larry Shore\My Documents\My Music\eac\Ram120_leadinandout\Track05.wav

Peak level 71.6 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Test CRC 044F4B72
Copy CRC 044F4B72
Copy OK

Track 6
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Larry Shore\My Documents\My Music\eac\Ram120_leadinandout\Track06.wav

Peak level 77.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC C5C514E4
Copy CRC C5C514E4
Copy OK

Track 7
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Larry Shore\My Documents\My Music\eac\Ram120_leadinandout\Track07.wav

Peak level 65.2 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 31A63169
Copy CRC 31A63169
Copy OK

Track 8
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Larry Shore\My Documents\My Music\eac\Ram120_leadinandout\Track08.wav

Peak level 74.9 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC D6A750F6
Copy CRC D6A750F6
Copy OK

Track 9
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Larry Shore\My Documents\My Music\eac\Ram120_leadinandout\Track09.wav

Peak level 83.5 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 9CFB50DC
Copy CRC 9CFB50DC
Copy OK

Track 10
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Larry Shore\My Documents\My Music\eac\Ram120_leadinandout\Track10.wav

Peak level 75.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 8238083C
Copy CRC 8238083C
Copy OK

Track 11
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Larry Shore\My Documents\My Music\eac\Ram120_leadinandout\Track11.wav

Peak level 72.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC B06FBC1E
Copy CRC B06FBC1E
Copy OK

Track 12
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Larry Shore\My Documents\My Music\eac\Ram120_leadinandout\Track12.wav

Peak level 67.8 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC CEF2DD11
Copy CRC CEF2DD11
Copy OK

Track 13
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Larry Shore\My Documents\My Music\eac\Ram120_leadinandout\Track13.wav

Peak level 82.8 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Test CRC 64D9BFEC
Copy CRC 64D9BFEC
Copy OK

Track 14
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Larry Shore\My Documents\My Music\eac\Ram120_leadinandout\Track14.wav

Peak level 89.7 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 56189534
Copy CRC 56189534
Copy OK

No errors occured


End of status report
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  #24  
Old 2007-07-21, 10:42 AM
Tubular
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Re: EAC configuration, offsets, etc...

If you get no read errors with "overread into lead in and lead out" enabled, then you should probably leave it enabled just to be safe.

Now, if you want, try determining the write offset and burn a write offset corrected audio CD with EAC from a FLAC set on your hard drive (see previous posts for instructions). Then extract this write offset corrected CD and compare it to the FLAC set. All of the WAVs should match, except maybe for the first and last track of the extracted burned CD. You could try extracting with "overread" enabled and disabled and see if those first and last tracks match either way.
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  #25  
Old 2007-07-21, 02:30 PM
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Re: EAC configuration, offsets, etc...

if you extract a cd to one folder, then burn that using EAC and extract again from this burned copy to another folder, then you can generate st5 checksums for both sets to see if you've got it 100% perfect. even wholefile md5s will work, if you're more comfortable with that.

for instructions look at the "checksums" link below in my signature. on my system I get a perfect match.
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  #26  
Old 2007-07-21, 03:00 PM
Tubular
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Re: EAC configuration, offsets, etc...

If you can't get the first and/or last tracks to match, just edit out a 5 second piece of low level crowd noise from a show you have with CD-Wav editor version 1.72, available here for free:
http://www.etree.org/cdwave.html
Then add this 5 second .wav to the beginning and end of each audio CD that you burn with EAC with the read offset corrected.
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  #27  
Old 2007-07-21, 03:21 PM
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Re: EAC configuration, offsets, etc...

^this is going to give an exact copy?
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Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

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  #28  
Old 2007-07-21, 03:30 PM
Tubular
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Re: EAC configuration, offsets, etc...

No the original wavs remain untouched. The 5 second clips are just bonus tracks added so you can extract the actual show perfectly.

Five, when you burn a FLAC seed with EAC with write offset corrected that has no SBEs or other errors that is a DAT > soundcard > wav transfer, do all the tracks match? Cause I've never been able to get the last track to match on a seed like this, hence the bonus track.
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  #29  
Old 2007-07-21, 03:50 PM
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Re: EAC configuration, offsets, etc...

I set up my system using the guides at the coaster factory

everything is set up for slowest extraction speed/highest quality in the options

my read offset is +98 on my rom drive ... it was determined that this is the ideal drive for reading.

my write drive offset is -6

I tested it with several official cds from my collection, 100% perfect on all tracks.

I'm confident that I can burn an audio cdr sourced from DAT or anything and get the same results... I can test this if you think for some reson it could possibly make a difference in the results. important thing is that there are no SBEs in the WAV files used to burn with EAC.

one key point, in EAC options for extraction I have "fill up missing offset samples with silence" enabled. since pretty much any commercial cd will have at least 98 samples of silence at the beginning and end, maybe I should try testing it with a DAT source as you suggested!! (will get back to you on that...)
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  #30  
Old 2007-07-21, 04:09 PM
Tubular
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Re: EAC configuration, offsets, etc...

Here is where is gets complicated. Both examples use the same CD-RW drive:

1)DAT > soundcard > WAV > FLAC (no SBEs) seed > WAV > burn with Nero (can't correct write offset on burn) > extract with EAC with combined read/write offset = all tracks match original FLACs, including first and last tracks

2)DAT > soundcard > WAV > FLAC (no SBEs) seed > WAV > burn with EAC (write offset corrected) > extract with EAC with read offset corrected = all tracks match except last track (has missing samples)

I can only conclude that EAC cannot overwrite into lead out correctly on DAT sources, or something. If you could try it that would be great.
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