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  #16  
Old 2007-05-25, 11:57 PM
Syco54645's Avatar
Syco54645 Syco54645 is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

so then donating is ok if the costs go to running the server but not for getting new sources? so what if a site were to take donations for buying a huge video or dat lot from someone, would this be bad? i dont think that the recording equipment thing is a bad idea as long as it is used correctly. i think that the site would have to allow the user what to donate towards. that way it would give the user a choice on what to support, new server or recording equipment.
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  #17  
Old 2007-05-26, 12:18 AM
Phishblowz Phishblowz is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

donations make the free sites free...if the expense of the site was completely out-of-pocket for admin, who the hell would want to run a site

I think the joy of knowing you contributed to the site should suffice (though I would love to see t-shirts...maybe hats too) but if you are a flag-waver and need to be acknowledged for what you do, maybe add an "I donated to ttd" on their header...but as far as ratio credits for money...I don't see how it matters without an enforcement of ratio requirements, so I guess I wouldn't care...but I know other sites have ratio requirements and your account is checked after every so many gb dl'd, and donations add to the amount of gb you can dl before a ratio check from admin...in a case where folks donate money to get around a ratio enforcement, I think that's weak, not to mention the fact that it becomes an ethical nightmare...if a ratio is enforced, it should be required that you keep up with it, and not just throw money at it to make it go away, otherwise it would be like buying access to the bootlegs (which goes against what we do)

where we are allowed complete access for free, you are not at any time selling anything or offering anything of illgotten gain from the donations received, so what you do to thank the monetary helpers is up to you...you need not explain yourself and your financial dealings in relation to the site...if I didn't have faith that this place was on the up and up, I wouldn't be here...you have my full confidence with how you spend the donations...fear not

just whatever you do, please don't offer any "exclusive areas or torrents" for donaters, because that would make the donations seem more of a payment for access than a contribution in good faith...

direwolf-pgh said "Money for ratio credit is bullshit - that is a hustle." but this is really only true if the ratio was a requirement for membership...and according to other forums that is not (nor will be anytime soon) the case here, so if you wanna toss some ratio credit so the donater can feel better about himself, then go for it...it's really an insignificant number anyway, so it doesn't make a difference...but if you ban folks at a .50 ratio (or whatever) and they can override that and continue to rape the bandwidth because they paid you to leave them alone about it, that would be a bit of a hustle...so if you plan to enforce a ratio, please don't give out credits (to avoid seeming inappropriate) but if ratios are just for shits and giggles then feel free to throw em a bone...it don't matter to me in the slightest...but I still say a hat or t-shirt is the way to go, because you can technically charge whatever you like (PBS style) for it, and we actually get something to show for our contribution without feeling like we donated for status symbols...besides, the publicity couldn't hurt

but what do I know I just know I trust you to make the best judgment call you can make, and although there will always be those who disagree with you, including myself from time to time (I still love ya though) I know in my heart that you do what you do with the best of intentions and I wouldn't hold it against you...

while I'm at it I would like to take a minute to say thanks for creating a place where we can all get together and share this stuff (as well as our opinions) it can get crazy sometimes, but all in all, there's a lot of good folks and great opinions here...I have learned alot from the forums here, and my collection has benefitted greatly from this place too...so thanx a million for everything...you're the best...hope my opinions help you with your concerns, I'm sure you'll make the best decision possible...or at least the most respectable decision possible, and that's good enough for me...keep up the good work

and to speak briefly on zombfuckingsucks' comment about selling "perks"...if the "perks" are only for the purpose of appearance and don't actually give you any additional access to anything then you can't really consider it a sale or exchange...it's kinda like saying if you do me a favor, I'll be your best friend...it's really just a charitable service, but technically speaking, you received something for the service (friendship) as was bargained for beforehand...a sale IMHO has to actually requires a tangible gift of value in return for the payment...this would only be the case if the ratio had a required level to be maintained, or if there was access to new areas or torrents...if the only thing you get is a pat on the back, I can't hardly consider that sales...and as far as merchandise goes, you can announce that as outright sales because the merchandise is legit, and you could put all profits toward the site and not be harassed for profitting on illegitimate recordings, as they remain free and open to all members regardless of whether or not they donate
  #18  
Old 2007-05-26, 12:21 AM
Phishblowz Phishblowz is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Syco54645
so then donating is ok if the costs go to running the server but not for getting new sources? so what if a site were to take donations for buying a huge video or dat lot from someone, would this be bad? i dont think that the recording equipment thing is a bad idea as long as it is used correctly. i think that the site would have to allow the user what to donate towards. that way it would give the user a choice on what to support, new server or recording equipment.
there are certain obvious costs of running the site which of course must be cared for first...once all the overhead is covered, if there are additional funds available, then it wouldn't hurt to open a forum to suggestions as to what purchases would best serve the community (recording decks, new sources, etc.)
  #19  
Old 2007-05-26, 12:27 AM
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Syco54645 Syco54645 is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

so phishblowz, just to clarify, if a site requires a good ratio, are you for or against ratio buying? just wonder as that post was rather long and i am tired.
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  #20  
Old 2007-05-26, 01:03 AM
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trustthex trustthex is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

im pretty sure everyone feels that paying for ratio is weak...
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  #21  
Old 2007-05-26, 01:21 AM
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randytravis randytravis is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

paying a site directly for ratio is wrong imo. I've been using torrents since early 2003 and been on the clean side of things (etree which accepts no donations) to private trackers which offer copyrighted materials. if you want to pay for bandwidth, get a seedbox and do that on your own. the site shouldn't be offering any perks for your donation, other than to give you a little star next to your name or something. who are you to sell my upload bandwidth to other people?

paying for server costs from donations is one thing, but to sell upload credit is pretty weak, imo.
  #22  
Old 2007-05-26, 01:22 AM
gtbrown77 gtbrown77 is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Reading through this has made me think a little about the whole "donation for ratio" thing. A few things come to my mind.

First...I will say that I am a member at several different torrent sites, and my ratio at ALL of them is 0.9 or better (cuz sometimes it's hard to seed when there are no leeches, and sometimes it hard to seed for days and days and days....). It's not that hard, and no, I have never paid money to get the ratio credit. But, there are people out there who will just leech and leech, and don't really care to seed - for whatever reason (I've got a few guesses though). If they want to donate money to help out the site and get ratio credit in return so they can continue to use the site, well, isn't that their prerogative? Sure, it's KINDA like "buying" bootlegs, but I would guess we've all bought our fair share (in the past), despite there being alternative methods to obtaining them (tape trades, cd trades, b+p, p2p/torrents, etc).

On the other hand...like I said, I'm a member at several sites and have maintained a good ratio at all of them because I will stay on a torrent until I've seeded 1:1 (or as close as possible, since I'm not quite at 1.0 at a couple). Sometimes that means I have to wait an extra day (or two) in order to dl something...oh well. I'm getting it all for free and because of the kindness of people I've never met (BTW - Hi all ). Buying your ratio credits is just being lazy (THAT'S the American way!), and it doesn't really add a whole lot to the "community" aspect of the whole thing, which is what (at least some of) these sites truly are about.

So, to sum it up, if some people would just share more, the whole "donation for ratio" thing wouldn't really be an issue (or if sites abandoned their ratio requirements). Really, it's not that hard. But, if you find it difficult to maintain the ratio required at any particular site and can financially afford to donate so as not to lose your privileges, then be my guest. I'll continue to seed so that everybody can benefit - rich or poor.

(Of course, on the other hand...exchanging donations for ratio credit is like the old practice of selling indulgences through the Church...but I won't go there )
  #23  
Old 2007-05-26, 02:03 AM
direwolf-pgh's Avatar
direwolf-pgh direwolf-pgh is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

had a great night out.. still dont care.

admins can and will do as they wish - if you have not realized some sites are/were for profit.

... welcome to the real world.

it is ..what it is...some are honest/some are hit and run

from what ive seen over the decades.. it doesnt matter
  #24  
Old 2007-05-26, 04:20 AM
onerok's Avatar
onerok onerok is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zombfuckingsucks
Easy sailor-mouth, I would ask that you settle down and desist from posting libel about those who value an education. Take notice that libel is written and slander is spoken, however, I've not posted any libelous information about that particular site.

My distinction between donations and sales was on the money. In fact, many charities will strategically give small gifts in return for their customers' pledges to make sure their clients are bound by contract so they honour their pledges. One who makes a true donation is not bound by any such contact nor is their an exchange. These are actually classified as exchanges not as donations since donations are not enforceable by contract while exchanges/sales are. So now you know.
Call me a sailor mouth? I have listened to your bullshit spread across 4 different sites, with your pretentious attitude. You are not some super educated know-it-all. No one is bound by any contract, no one is required to do anything, what the money is going for is always specifically stated, so give it a fucking rest. Why don't you go harass the makers of all the bittorrent clients? They ask for donations, not required, but if you use their program then you are getting a service, and if you donate then that's a transaction in your bullshit world, right? Why don't you start there at the source, and once again, go fuck yourself.
  #25  
Old 2007-05-26, 06:15 AM
uninvited94's Avatar
uninvited94 uninvited94 is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

I see ZFSs point, but let me say one thing about "donations" (on a certain site) are equal to selling bootlegs or "stolen goods": Your donation there gives you 1 GB /2 GB for free for 1 buck. 1 GB would be a completely filled 2-CD-set, for example. If you see these donations as "selling goods", youd get a Double-CD-Set, mostly including artwork and stuff, for 1 buck, and you are not forced to donate. On Ebay, the same stuff of the same source with the same layout would bring certainly 10 times more. And people would buy it, maybe knowing that they would get it for free elsewhere (what several replies to my "warnings" to buyers make me think). Over here, in Germany, Ive seen so many factory-pressed silvers of shows that have been upped on several trackers, offered in stores and conventions I was working at. Youd pay about 20 bucks for a cheap DigiPak-version of a David Gilmour-show in 2006, and I guess Ive seen the whole tour been offered on CD/DVD, the same stuff as offered on Dime and elsewhere. The Earls Court-DVD of PFs "The Wall"-Tour, as offered on here all the years, the same artwork and stuff, about 5 different versions over the years as Silver-DVDs, for about 30 bucks. If you go for "selling stolen goods", come over here. People buy it, and Ive asked so many why they do it. Mostly why they feel a "proper pressed Silver-CD is better than a CD-R", all this bullshit. I can understand people who mislike it or think of donations as being used for selling that stuff or whatever, but I dont see the proportions. As Ive mentioned before, I cant complain about being handled rudely on a certain site (and I dont say this because Im scared of being banned or whatever), that may happen, it did not happen to me until now, and if Id feel unhappy over there, Id leave that site.

Last edited by uninvited94; 2007-05-26 at 06:20 AM.
  #26  
Old 2007-05-26, 08:44 AM
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AAR.oner AAR.oner is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

donations are for site costs -- server fees, maintenance, new servers, etc...simple as that

but donations for taping gear?!?!

i think this thread, and the one it "stemmed from", show the changing nature of the collecting community -- the gimmegimmegimme attitudes, the this-show-has-to-be-recorded mindset [as if yer gonna die if you don't have a copy], a willingness to allow/encourage profiting to occur, and a complete lack of respect for tapers & their wishes...absolutely pathetic
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  #27  
Old 2007-05-26, 11:48 AM
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trustthex trustthex is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

i think it has to do with the fact that there are alot of new people to the trading community, those who have never had to snail mail trade, etc... its instant gratification aar.oner thats killing this hobby. (thx for the hicks btw)...

i dont know if we will be able to teach patience without enforcement so, i dont think thats a good idea. ive always liked this site for the reason of no enforcement, you know if you are shitty or not... re patience: i have been waiting years to get my hands on a lowgen copy of the pj show (7-5-98). years! i finally got it the other day, and am able to upgrade from 2nd gen cass > cdr... one more time, years!

also, this is the internet, and boy arguing sure is fun (there really isnt an emoticon for exhausted/tiredhead, although, beating a dead horse was close)
__________________
The critics of the Information Age see everything in the negative, as if the quantity of information can lead to a loss of meaning. They said the same thing about Gutenberg.
-Timothy Leary


Meatwad: I thought you said TV was bad.
Frylock: It is. But we fucking need it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by general eclectic
There's a big difference between getting trashed and disappearing.
  #28  
Old 2007-05-26, 11:53 AM
direwolf-pgh's Avatar
direwolf-pgh direwolf-pgh is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AAR.oner
donations are for site costs -- server fees, maintenance, new servers, etc...simple as that

but donations for taping gear?!?!

....... and a complete lack of respect for tapers & their wishes...absolutely pathetic
serious... one of the funniest 'donation requests' I've ever heard from a trading community
- send us cash for shows & equipment
someone has some big stones asking for that !

...i didnt understand the second half Aaroner.. 'and a complete lack of respect for tapers & their wishes' <-- i didnt understand.

Or did you mean the fact that the admins didnt pull a show
when the taper said 'do not on post this show on this site please'
cause yeah... they should not post it..and taunt a taper.
kinda like..yeah ..fuck you.. we do what we want.
I thought that was very childish.

but it was a setup to help get the word out - that certain sites do some questionable activity.

its a huge black eye for that site.. they fucked up bad - and are in the spotlight.

Last edited by direwolf-pgh; 2007-05-26 at 11:59 AM.
  #29  
Old 2007-05-26, 12:09 PM
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paddington paddington is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

I don't get the controversy here.

1) If you donate to a website, the money belongs to the admin to do as he/she pleases. If you don't trust the admin to do that, don't give.

2) Sites should never give anything to the donation flock in return that isn't available to everyone. If you do, you are selling access to the media, distributing it for profit.

Money and trading don't mix. If you want to donate to keep the meeting place running, great. Do that, and expect nothing more in return.
  #30  
Old 2007-05-26, 12:24 PM
entropy357
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

This is all really about a few people having a personal grudge against a certain site.
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