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  #211  
Old 2007-05-31, 02:39 PM
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dementrium dementrium is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by freezer
Jesus Christ on a crutch.....it's Saturday night...why the hell are you staring at a computer screen........go out and hear some live music.....and tape it.....why'don't 'cha?

I'm recording a concert from off the FM in 20 minutes.....what are you adding to the trade pool tonight, huh?

  #212  
Old 2007-06-01, 02:13 AM
spiritinaphoto
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phishblowz
as long as there are people stranded on torrents, there are opportunities to improve the ratio...FWIW the uploader of the JGB 11-12-91 is having to reload the show to help a friend get it because 7 are hangin...there's always room for improvement...maybe it's true that EVERYONE may not be able to make a 1.0, but there's enough to go around that everyone who WANTS to have a 1.0 can obtain it...some need to try harder than others (based on upload speeds) but it can be done...just my opinion...again I don't care if you do it or not...but it CAN be done
I think Lynne needs to find that mathematical proof for you. Let's say everyone wants a ratio of at least 1.0, but there's several people with share ratios significantly greater than 1.0. The only way everyone could get a 1.0 (or very close) would be if the people with higher ratios would leech a bit to drop their ratios, which I don't see happening (people with "good" share ratios tend to be very defensive of their ratios and don't like to see them drop).

I suppose I must be one of the rare people with a "good ratio" who is actually concerned for those lesser equipped sharers.
  #213  
Old 2007-06-01, 06:37 AM
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Chachi420 Chachi420 is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiritinaphoto
I think Lynne needs to find that mathematical proof for you. Let's say everyone wants a ratio of at least 1.0, but there's several people with share ratios significantly greater than 1.0. The only way everyone could get a 1.0 (or very close) would be if the people with higher ratios would leech a bit to drop their ratios, which I don't see happening (people with "good" share ratios tend to be very defensive of their ratios and don't like to see them drop).

I suppose I must be one of the rare people with a "good ratio" who is actually concerned for those lesser equipped sharers.
that's not true...the proportion of seeders to leechers is small (there are a lot more leechers than seeders).
If everyone was sharing, there would be no opportunity for others to have very high ratios (becuase everyone would be sharing bandwidth, there would be no leechers to "fuel" their high ratios). People have have ratios either because they are seeders, or because there aren't enough people sharing. If everyone was sharing after they download, then their would be no need for you to seed beyond 1.0 (since that bandwidth would be coming from your peers who are also sharing). I hope that makes sense. In other words, you can't share to people that don't need it (since they are getting their bandwith from others), so you will never go beyone 1.0. That example is assuming negligable amount of seeders as compared to leechers, and everyone with approximately equal ul speeds (which is for the most part true).

Here's your mathematical proof!
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Last edited by Chachi420; 2007-06-01 at 06:45 AM.
  #214  
Old 2007-06-01, 08:46 AM
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vladsmythe vladsmythe is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

I wasn't going to get into this fray, but Chachi420 makes a good point. I can tell you this. When I was a member of the defunct Beatles site (by invitation only) there were not enough leechers. So, you'd sit there after a download complteted and there would not be any fresh leechers. Sometimes 20 seeders 0 leechers for days. That's when I decided to start seeding videos from the Graceful Duck vault. Big uploads mean big ratio improvement. I'm happy to say that with the recent video seeds I've made here, my ratio is improving. I would also add that my natural tendency is to leave the torrent on my HD so that I can help people along well after the bloom has left the initial seeding.
  #215  
Old 2007-06-01, 01:39 PM
spiritinaphoto
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chachi420
that's not true...the proportion of seeders to leechers is small (there are a lot more leechers than seeders).
If everyone was sharing, there would be no opportunity for others to have very high ratios (becuase everyone would be sharing bandwidth, there would be no leechers to "fuel" their high ratios). People have have ratios either because they are seeders, or because there aren't enough people sharing. If everyone was sharing after they download, then their would be no need for you to seed beyond 1.0 (since that bandwidth would be coming from your peers who are also sharing). I hope that makes sense. In other words, you can't share to people that don't need it (since they are getting their bandwith from others), so you will never go beyone 1.0. That example is assuming negligable amount of seeders as compared to leechers, and everyone with approximately equal ul speeds (which is for the most part true).

Here's your mathematical proof!
You're missing one glaringly obvious problem...some leeches end up seeding well above 1.0 by the time they finish downloading if they get on at just the right peak of the wave. It's because their connection is better (faster and/or not firewalled), so the clients tend to favor connections from those people.

And then of course there is the issue of coming onto a torrent late and no more leeches show up. What then? If you ask me, it's a bit of a pyramid scheme--you just pray you're not the last one left downloading on a torrent.

I suppose you're going to chew out people for being firewalled next, when sometimes they genuinely can't do anything about it (i.e. someone else controls their network and they don't know the password, crappy ISP, etc.).

The simple fact of the matter is that there is always going to be an inequality in share ratios.
  #216  
Old 2007-06-01, 01:48 PM
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Sid Sid is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiritinaphoto
You're missing one glaringly obvious problem...some leeches end up seeding well above 1.0 by the time they finish downloading if they get on at just the right peak of the wave. It's because their connection is better (faster and/or not firewalled), so the clients tend to favor connections from those people.

And then of course there is the issue of coming onto a torrent late and no more leeches show up. What then? If you ask me, it's a bit of a pyramid scheme--you just pray you're not the last one left downloading on a torrent.

I suppose you're going to chew out people for being firewalled next, when sometimes they genuinely can't do anything about it (i.e. someone else controls their network and they don't know the password, crappy ISP, etc.).

The simple fact of the matter is that there is always going to be an inequality in share ratios.
Exactly
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  #217  
Old 2007-06-01, 02:21 PM
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dcbullet dcbullet is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiritinaphoto
You're missing one glaringly obvious problem...some leeches end up seeding well above 1.0 by the time they finish downloading if they get on at just the right peak of the wave. It's because their connection is better (faster and/or not firewalled), so the clients tend to favor connections from those people.
I agree. Chachi420's example doesn't work. Additionally, there are plenty of people who are the initial seeder and just keep on seeding after the first complete. Once that happens, not everyone in that swarm can get 1:1 (or 1:0.99999, if you want to get technical).
  #218  
Old 2007-06-01, 03:16 PM
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dementrium dementrium is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

This advanced mathematical problem can be explained by a simple scenario.

Example

Let's say a tracker start from scratch with 3 users (A, B and C) and a 1:1 ratio requirement.

User A uploads a show.
User B jump in and complete. Then, A drops with 0 down/1 up.
User C jump and complete from B. Then, B drops with 1 down/1 up.

End results

A = 0 down/1 up
B = 1 down/1 up (1:1 ratio)
C = 1 down/0 up (0 ratio)

Which lends to...

A = ratio vigilante (and possibly with a double moral looking at his DaD ratio).
C = banned.
B = Ok. Just wait for user A seeding a second show. After that, B will be banned as well.
  #219  
Old 2007-06-01, 03:20 PM
dcbullet's Avatar
dcbullet dcbullet is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

exactly
  #220  
Old 2007-06-01, 04:37 PM
Phishblowz Phishblowz is online now
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiritinaphoto
You're missing one glaringly obvious problem...some leeches end up seeding well above 1.0 by the time they finish downloading if they get on at just the right peak of the wave. It's because their connection is better (faster and/or not firewalled), so the clients tend to favor connections from those people.

And then of course there is the issue of coming onto a torrent late and no more leeches show up. What then? If you ask me, it's a bit of a pyramid scheme--you just pray you're not the last one left downloading on a torrent.

I suppose you're going to chew out people for being firewalled next, when sometimes they genuinely can't do anything about it (i.e. someone else controls their network and they don't know the password, crappy ISP, etc.).

The simple fact of the matter is that there is always going to be an inequality in share ratios.

you all miss the point that there are many users and many torrents...most of which die with people stranded (where's the ratio hunters) so it's easy to share back what you took...however I realize that for each torrent everyone cannot seed to 1.0, but there are many to choose from, and you can always upload something...these excuses for why you can't have a 1.0 ratio are just excuses...just say you don't care to share and be done with it...most of the people who share over 1.0 do so because they have to...radfordaj23 just had to reload his JGB video to help the last few takers because of the 300+ who completed it (many under a 1.0 I'm sure) no one came back to help out and it rested on the guy who already shared his fair share...a 1.0 is easily obtainable if you care to work for it...but most people do only what they have to and little else...there is no legitimate excuse for it...it just is...I've learned to deal with it, but the excuses still cut through me...I'll accept that you share less than you could (or should) but I won't sit here and smile while excuses are thrown around...I'll call that BS everytime I see it

if it looks and sounds like BS...chances are it's
  #221  
Old 2007-06-01, 05:20 PM
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Five Five is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

no you missed the point

it is simple math, not everyone can have a 1.0 or better ratio

that having been said, there are enough members who don't post and don't read the forums who just look for the torrent they want, get to 100% and then immediately close their client and move on. anybody who is reading this is probably not one of those ppl.

if you are the last seed (or one of the last few) don't close your window because we've all had that happen to us and it sucks to be on the other end. in this case it doesn't even matter if you've already shared 10.0.

if you want to get your ratio up, just leave the window open. still not going up? leave it open for two weeks, a month. if you've got something quality to seed, seed it. if you have something really crappy that you want to seed just to get your ratio up, don't bother.

anybody who tries to upload the same amount that they downloaded can do it, even on dial up. there's enough ppl who don't even try or understand the concept whatsoever to fill to quota of necessary low-ratio leeches.
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  #222  
Old 2007-06-01, 06:11 PM
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dcbullet dcbullet is offline
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five
no you missed the point

it is simple math, not everyone can have a 1.0 or better ratio
True.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five
that having been said, there are enough members who don't post and don't read the forums who just look for the torrent they want, get to 100% and then immediately close their client and move on.
Also True.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phishblowz
most of the people who share over 1.0 do so because they have to
This is pure speculation. That's OK though, I like to speculate too. My speculation is that lots of people who have high ratio have that because they just leave their torrent client going all the time. I'll seed a show and just let'er rip for days - weeks! I don't do it because I have to. I just do. It's easy for me in my circumstance.
  #223  
Old 2007-06-01, 06:15 PM
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

does everybody at this goddam site have to quote me in their signatures at one time or another?

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I don't think I troll anyone, other than freezer.

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You wall-eyed apple-knocking pig-fuckers! You don't know shit!
  #224  
Old 2007-06-01, 07:21 PM
spiritinaphoto
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phishblowz
I'll accept that you share less than you could (or should) but I won't sit here and smile while excuses are thrown around
Excuse me, but are you insinuating that my share ratio isn't sufficient? It's 0.06 higher than yours, so don't you dare imply that my share ratio sucks.

(And let's not get into quantities uploaded--my capacity isn't what it used to be. I imagine if I was still in the dorms with that insanely good connection, I'd probably be over a terabyte over at DIME, if not here as well.)
  #225  
Old 2007-06-01, 07:23 PM
Phishblowz Phishblowz is online now
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Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by freezer
does everybody at this goddam site have to quote me in their signatures at one time or another?

when your posts are as creative as they are...can you blame em...between your posts, and posts re:you, it's hard to find a quote that doesn't quote you
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