The Traders' Den  

  The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble
 

Notices

Technobabble Post your general Need for Help questions here.
Lossy or Lossless?
Moderators

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #31  
Old 2005-01-04, 12:48 PM
RainDawg's Avatar
RainDawg RainDawg is offline
Renegade Geek
10.20 GB/20.72 GB/2.03
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Passing swiftly through The Moor
Re: PAL to NTSC...?

I agree that NTSC is a bad idea that, by sheer might of the US's ineptitude, has remained a standard.

Both conversions require the encoder to find a frame and "guess" where it should be on the timescale, and thus will somewhat alter the quality. In NTSC > PAL, though, frames will be discarded whereas in PAL > NTSC, additional frames need to be created to account for the increased framerate.

Both require the video to be forced and adapted, and therefore both are not recommended for trading, especially when hardware to play either is becoming as prevalent and inexpensive as it has today.
__________________
Through the clouds,
Throught the lies,
We'll never see,
What's never been,
At the ending of life and the coming of death,
Pass not through its gates but into the dark.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #32  
Old 2005-01-04, 03:17 PM
h_vargas
0.00 KB/0.00 KB/---
 
Re: PAL to NTSC...?

excellent post, bobs23. for a long time now, i've thought PAL to be a superior format. aside from the things you mentioned in your post (higher line rate for PAL video), one great thing - especially for people who do any video editing - is that PAL doesn't limit the colors you can use for video graphics, whereas NTSC colors are limited (to prevent bleeding, etc.). and PAL is of course closer to the frame rate of film, which is great.


k8_fan, thanks for the link to dScaler. i'm going to that site as soon as i finish this post. unfortunately for me, i suspect dScaler will only work with true "capture cards"... for all of my transfers (DV, VHS, SVHS), i simply use a camcorder (for analog-to-DV transfers, i use the "pass-through" feature)... so i'm doubtful that something like dScaler will work in this situation. i need to save up and get a nice Canopus card, methinks.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #33  
Old 2005-01-04, 03:59 PM
bobs23's Avatar
bobs23 bobs23 is offline
in LA LA land
6.86 GB/47.63 GB/6.94
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Re: PAL to NTSC...?

Well at least there is something that I can contribute to this board. Seriously though I do have 20 years in post production, and I'd help in way possible.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #34  
Old 2005-01-04, 04:34 PM
k8_fan
0.00 KB/0.00 KB/---
 
Re: PAL to NTSC...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by h_vargas
excellent post, bobs23. for a long time now, i've thought PAL to be a superior format. aside from the things you mentioned in your post (higher line rate for PAL video), one great thing - especially for people who do any video editing - is that PAL doesn't limit the colors you can use for video graphics, whereas NTSC colors are limited (to prevent bleeding, etc.). and PAL is of course closer to the frame rate of film, which is great.
Actually, it's a problem because 24 frame per second films in PAL countries are transferred at 25 frames per second. Which means that every single song on a PAL released videotape or song is either at the wrong tempo, pitch or both. I have "O Brother, Where Art Thou" in both PAL and NTSC DVD and can easily demonstrate it. Luckily, computer DVD players like WinDVD and PowerDVD have the ability to play PAL DVDs at the right speed (24 fps).

In general, PAL video does look better than NTSC. But I'll be so happy to see both of them tossed into the dustbin of history by HD. BTW, Leno has been in HD for years, and soon both Conan and SNL will be in HD as well.

Quote:
k8_fan, thanks for the link to dScaler. i'm going to that site as soon as i finish this post. unfortunately for me, i suspect dScaler will only work with true "capture cards"... for all of my transfers (DV, VHS, SVHS), i simply use a camcorder (for analog-to-DV transfers, i use the "pass-through" feature)... so i'm doubtful that something like dScaler will work in this situation. i need to save up and get a nice Canopus card, methinks.
The untimate goal for dScaler 5 is make it a set of DirectShow filters, so it will work with any source. I use a $39 I/O Magic card for some capture as well as for display on my big screen, and upscale to HD res (1280 x 720).
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #35  
Old 2005-01-11, 02:24 PM
fatoldpig fatoldpig is offline
174.19 GB/207.24 GB/1.19
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Chicago area
Re: PAL to NTSC...?

i got a bunch of pal dvds that i downloaded and my current thx certified super expensive 6 year old dvd player won't play. so i thought i'll get one of those cheapy $30 standalone dvd player that'll play pal/ntsc etc. but i landed up getting a ilo dvdr04 dvd recorderer for $150 from wallmart instead. it plays pal disc fine. it has a bult in tv tuner, s-video, even component video & optical/co-ax digital audio out (i guess they are standard now), hq recording over 9mbps. though audio is only mpeg at 256kbps and records only on +r/+rw discs. now i can watch all my pal dvds. you can hack it to be region/mv free
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #36  
Old 2005-02-07, 02:34 AM
gillett's Avatar
gillett gillett is offline
phook:gillett
74.50 GB/111.99 GB/1.50
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Icon4 How to copy PAL to NTSC

If you aquire this program http://www.slysoft.com/en/anydvd.html just run it in the background. Thats it...
__________________
Would you hear my voice come thru the music,
Would you hold it near as it were your own?
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #37  
Old 2005-02-09, 05:09 PM
DMBrunnelson's Avatar
DMBrunnelson DMBrunnelson is offline
235.83 GB/288.93 GB/1.23
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Market, MD
Converting from PAL to NTSC

I wanted to convert some DVD's I downloaded from PAL to NTSC. I am using nero and TPMGEnc currently but I have no experience with converting. Thanks in advance for any help.
Jon

http://db.etree.org/dmbrunnelson43 DVD List
http://db.etree.org/dmbrunnelson Audio List
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #38  
Old 2005-02-09, 05:32 PM
crazyman's Avatar
crazyman crazyman is offline
Lust
18.82 GB/7.95 GB/0.42
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Spain
Re: Converting from PAL to NTSC

Take a look here:

http://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=221928
__________________
-= Feeling eternal all this pain is an illusion =-

My trade list
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #39  
Old 2005-02-09, 06:07 PM
ssamadhi97's Avatar
ssamadhi97 ssamadhi97 is offline
meow.
87.81 GB/69.41 GB/0.79
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Old Europe
Re: Converting from PAL to NTSC

and remember, trading such converted dvds is evil.

(even though it's not as evil as reencoding videos to a different framerate)

Last edited by ssamadhi97; 2005-02-09 at 06:12 PM.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #40  
Old 2005-02-11, 08:47 AM
RainDawg's Avatar
RainDawg RainDawg is offline
Renegade Geek
10.20 GB/20.72 GB/2.03
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Passing swiftly through The Moor
Re: How to copy PAL to NTSC

This doesn't really copy from PAL to NTSC, but seems like it would work for PLAYING back DVDs. Most PCs will play either format (asuming they are not region encoded) regardless, so many people won't need this software.
__________________
Through the clouds,
Throught the lies,
We'll never see,
What's never been,
At the ending of life and the coming of death,
Pass not through its gates but into the dark.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #41  
Old 2005-02-11, 09:28 AM
lucasweb's Avatar
lucasweb lucasweb is offline
27.13 GB/217.10 GB/8.00
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: NYC
Re: How to copy PAL to NTSC

Transferring from PAL to NTSC or the other way around is always a pain and results in quality loss, in the long run it's just easier to get a stand-alone dvd player that does both
__________________
Dustin Hoffman - Straight Time (1978)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Handy
I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #42  
Old 2005-02-11, 09:47 AM
RainDawg's Avatar
RainDawg RainDawg is offline
Renegade Geek
10.20 GB/20.72 GB/2.03
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Passing swiftly through The Moor
Re: Converting from PAL to NTSC

Hmm....converting from PAL to NTSC would require reencoding to a different framerate, would it not?
__________________
Through the clouds,
Throught the lies,
We'll never see,
What's never been,
At the ending of life and the coming of death,
Pass not through its gates but into the dark.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #43  
Old 2005-02-12, 11:58 AM
ssamadhi97's Avatar
ssamadhi97 ssamadhi97 is offline
meow.
87.81 GB/69.41 GB/0.79
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Old Europe
Re: Converting from PAL to NTSC

the method described in the thread crazyman linked to is based exclusively on patching headers in the dvd data to trick the dvd player into playing it back at a different frame rate. (this trick should even be perfectly reversible, as far as I can tell)

Apparently it doesn't work with many dvd players though.

And tbh I can't imagine how this can really work because the speed of the audio track will not match the speed of the video any more afterwards since it has a fixed sample rate which will remain unaffected by this modification.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #44  
Old 2005-02-12, 12:55 PM
New Homebrew
0.00 KB/0.00 KB/---
 
Re: Converting from PAL to NTSC

It might be just about time for a PAL/NTSC sticky in this section.

It seems like a natural reaction for some NTSC people to rebel when they get that first PAL dvd. If you collect for any length of time you will end up with many PAL sources.

Maybe something like "living with PAL format"?
1) Play the DVD back on your PC which doesn't care if it's PAL or NTSC
2) Buy a cheap DVD player from Target or Wal-Mart that plays both formats
3) If you must convert, please don't trade or post.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #45  
Old 2005-02-15, 03:34 PM
bubbabeui bubbabeui is offline
39.76 GB/44.21 GB/1.11
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Re: Converting from PAL to NTSC

ive done it on a mac and yes, pal framerates are 25 fps and video is usually 29.97 fps. it took a lot of trial and error but i think the basic method was creating 1 big VOB file, then using mpeg2works to demux that, then convert to ntsc...then used toast to burn dvd....and now i have the genesis 5-6-80 dvd in ntsc format yaay
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
Reply

The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble

Similar Threads
Thread Forum Replies Last Post
PAL to NTSC converting DVD player resource guide - King Kong Technobabble 6 2008-11-26 09:25 PM
Converting from PAL to NTSC - cky2k77 Technobabble 9 2008-02-27 12:50 AM
Converting PAL to NTSC - vladsmythe Technobabble 12 2008-01-12 05:33 PM
Converting a PAL DVD to NTSC-Lossy? - tgunn2760 Lossy or Lossless? 2 2006-11-27 01:30 PM
Converting DVD to AVI - pauglife Technobabble 6 2006-07-09 11:05 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forums


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:45 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - , TheTradersDen.org - All Rights Reserved - Hosted at QuickPacket
no new posts