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  #16  
Old 2007-03-03, 12:52 AM
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Re: Banned for the wrong reason: JETHRO TULL 1978-10-09 Madison Square Garden, NYC (NTSC)

I went and revised the rule to make it (hopefully) more specific. I hope this helps explain what we are asking for.
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  #17  
Old 2007-03-03, 08:49 AM
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Re: Banned for the wrong reason: JETHRO TULL 1978-10-09 Madison Square Garden, NYC (NTSC)

I think it was clear enough already.. showtaper said it himself in the first post:
"The file in the torrent was listed as MPEG-1" MPEG-1 is not up to standards. it's VCD encoding.
there is nothing hard to understand about that, especially after it was explained (I counted 8 times).
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  #18  
Old 2007-03-03, 11:44 AM
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Re: Banned for the wrong reason: JETHRO TULL 1978-10-09 Madison Square Garden, NYC (NTSC)

All of the "technobabble" I do not understand but thought Id toss my 2 cents out there anyway.I agree with the mods.If they say a particular show isnt up to TDD standards and they dont want it here makes sense to me.I would only want th highest possible quality in my collection and I think that is the same thing that they are after.Ive gotton so much "junk" from other sites that just ended up being tossed in the trash because they were "lossy".As for my personal experiences with the staff here,they seem to be trying to protect the integrity of what is traded or uploaded here so that it dosent get spread around like some kind of virus.Also,seeing how they do all of the "work" around here with no pay,etc just so we can get some good honest quality music/video, I respect their wishes.Like I said, thats just my 2 cents.
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  #19  
Old 2007-03-03, 01:27 PM
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Re: Banned for the wrong reason: JETHRO TULL 1978-10-09 Madison Square Garden, NYC (NTSC)

Whats funny to me is that the person who posted the Tull torrent here mentioned in the initial post that he thought the DVD was not allowed due to the MPEG1 origin and to have the mods pull it if it isnt up to spec. Then we have someone else whining about it.


too funny...
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  #20  
Old 2007-03-03, 03:47 PM
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Re: Banned for the wrong reason: JETHRO TULL 1978-10-09 Madison Square Garden, NYC (NTSC)

I think it's just showtaper's time of the month.

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  #21  
Old 2007-03-03, 06:17 PM
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Re: Banned for the wrong reason: JETHRO TULL 1978-10-09 Madison Square Garden, NYC (NTSC)

Looked at the new Rule 9 Lynne & i think that about makes it as square as possible.


However on reading that i did just happen to read something else.... about RULE 10

10. No Reauthored DVDs are allowed.
We do not allow any reauthored DVDs to be seeded. This includes any DVD9>DVD5 reauthors. Please seed the DVDs in the original released form. Once you download the show, you may do what you want to it, but please don't trade/share your reauthored DVDs here.


Re-authoring does not change anything when making a DvD.The mpeg structure stays the same as it was before it was ,if you see what i mean.
You are only building the info of the mpeg solely so that the player knows the score when it goes to play it.
Where all the chapters are etc.
Supposing i get a DvD in a trade & it has 5 minute chapters at incorrect positions and no menu.Well that would be re-authored to put them in,but the content stays the same.

Surely you mean No Transcoding ie :re-compressed like DvD Shrink does...Not Re-authored i feel

K_K

Last edited by KoolKat; 2007-03-03 at 06:23 PM.
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  #22  
Old 2007-03-03, 07:33 PM
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Re: Banned for the wrong reason: JETHRO TULL 1978-10-09 Madison Square Garden, NYC (NTSC)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolKat
Supposing i get a DvD in a trade & it has 5 minute chapters at incorrect positions and no menu.Well that would be re-authored to put them in,but the content stays the same.

Surely you mean No Transcoding ie :re-compressed like DvD Shrink does...Not Re-authored i feel

K_K
Yes & no K_K, that one does need some clarification...'re-authoring' that SA you got in a trade, to put a menu/chapter points on it and seed here is ok.

The rule came about because we were questioned as to whether it would be ok to take a show seeded here as a DVD9 to be shrunk/reauthored as DVD5's (for all those poor souls who cant deal with a dual layer ) ...obviously, thats unacceptable.

There has also been issues of people taking someone else's 'authored' work, and re-authoring it because they didnt like the menu or whatever reason, then trying to pass it off as their own.
Seeing as how you can 'reauthor' losslessly.....out of respect to the tapers and authors who release shows specifically, to not have their work 'reauthored' w/o their knowledge or permission.

...thats the intent of the rule
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  #23  
Old 2007-03-03, 10:46 PM
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Re: Banned for the wrong reason: JETHRO TULL 1978-10-09 Madison Square Garden, NYC (NTSC)

Quote:
Originally Posted by schmoe75
............
There has also been issues of people taking someone else's 'authored' work, and re-authoring it because they didnt like the menu or whatever reason, then trying to pass it off as their own.
Might this also pertain to audio? That is, in reagerds to raw master recordings versus "REMASTERS"?


Quote:
Originally Posted by schmoe75
............Seeing as how you can 'reauthor' losslessly.....out of respect to the tapers and authors who release shows specifically, to not have their work 'reauthored' w/o their knowledge or permission.

...thats the intent of the rule
Does this also pertain to the MASTER copies of audio recordings provided by old school analog tapers who made the recordings???



Quote:
10. No Reauthored DVDs are allowed.
We do not allow any reauthored DVDs to be seeded. This includes any DVD9>DVD5 reauthors. Please seed the DVDs in the original released form. Once you download the show, you may do what you want to it, but please don't trade/share your reauthored DVDs here.
This looks like a step in a positive direction, congratulations for spelling the rule out so clear.


NOW, Will this be reflected in the rules for audio in order to preserve the integrity of raw analog MASTER recordings offered at TTD?
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  #24  
Old 2007-03-03, 11:48 PM
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Re: Banned for the wrong reason: JETHRO TULL 1978-10-09 Madison Square Garden, NYC (NTSC)

^^^ a valid point
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  #25  
Old 2007-03-04, 12:00 AM
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Re: Banned for the wrong reason: JETHRO TULL 1978-10-09 Madison Square Garden, NYC (NTSC)

Quote:
Originally Posted by freezer
Might this also pertain to audio? That is, in reagerds to raw master recordings versus "REMASTERS"?
We disallow DVD9 to DVD 5 because it is lossy. As pointed out by KoolKat, we used a word that was probably not the best word to describe what we asked for. We will change the wording on that rule. Joe explained the intent of the rule above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by freezer
Does this also pertain to the MASTER copies of audio recordings provided by old school analog tapers who made the recordings???
We allow people to post bootlegs of shows or even remasters of taped shows. We ask that if someone does a remaster of a show that they state the lineage and also some remastering notes. We don't pull remasters if they do that. Do we think it is good etiquette to ask a taper before someone remasters the show? Yes. But, we can't and don't enforce it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by freezer
NOW, Will this be reflected in the rules for audio in order to preserve the integrity of raw analog MASTER recordings offered at TTD?
No. As stated, KoolKat pointed out that we used the wrong wording for the rule. We knew our intent, as Joe stated it, but we worded it wrong. We will be rewording this rule to state our intent - that the video not be changed in a lossy way. We don't want audio changed from lossless to lossy to lossless either. But, the way to accomplish this for audio and video is different and they need different written rules.

I think many users have expressed an interest to have the raw recording shared and so many tapers do that (here and on most sites).
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  #26  
Old 2007-03-04, 11:28 AM
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Re: Banned for the wrong reason: JETHRO TULL 1978-10-09 Madison Square Garden, NYC (NTSC)

I see....no preservation of integrity.......for raw audio masters....


So I might as well "REMASTER" my own recordings before releasing same?






Gee, now won't that thwart the efforts of some of the remastering crowd, if I decide to randomly introduce or remove sonic frequency changes into master recordings?

Oh yeah, that's the same thing the remaster crowd already does here quite often.....hmmmm?



Remaster --- Wouldn't that kinda defeat the purpose of using the word integrity?

Maybe this rule should also be re-written (remastered) for clarity?



Quote:
Originally Posted by U2Lynne
We will change the wording on that rule.
You also might please consider removing the word "integrity" if the preservation aspect of raw master recordings isn't enforced.






Quote:
We have come together to create an online trading site with an entirely new ideology. This site will be geared towards a certain kind of collector: those who feel quality and integrity are important. Our policies will seem demanding to many users, but we have witnessed the decline in overall quality in many other trading circles due to lax restrictions.

We offer a safe haven for traders frustrated with the dilution of quality in the trading pool, as well as our combined experience and devotion to helping new users enter an elite trading community.
^^^


Quote:
Quality is not an option in the seeds here, it will be the standard.

^^^



Oh well, there's a handful of my RAW master recordings already on the way to be shared here.

Are they all "fair game" to have their integrity removed?

Last edited by freezer; 2007-03-04 at 11:34 AM.
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  #27  
Old 2007-03-04, 11:45 AM
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U2Lynne U2Lynne is offline
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Re: Banned for the wrong reason: JETHRO TULL 1978-10-09 Madison Square Garden, NYC (NTSC)

Freezer, what you may want to do is when people torrent your raw recordings, ask them to add something in the text file like "Feel free to spread this show in it's raw form only. The taper has requested that this show not be spread in a remastered form." (I'm sure you can come up with much better verbage than I. ) We do ask that text files get passed on with the show and many people will respect the wishes voiced in the text file.
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  #28  
Old 2007-03-04, 11:53 AM
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schmoe75 schmoe75 is offline
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Re: Banned for the wrong reason: JETHRO TULL 1978-10-09 Madison Square Garden, NYC (NTSC)

Quote:
Originally Posted by freezer
Are they all "fair game" to have their integrity removed?
No...
Quote:
Originally Posted by U2Lynne
We don't want audio changed from lossless to lossy to lossless either. But, the way to accomplish this for audio and video is different and they need different written rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by freezer
there's a handful of my RAW master recordings already on the way to be shared here.
NICE....though it should, I bet it still doesnt end the discussion on lineage
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  #29  
Old 2007-03-04, 04:59 PM
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Re: Banned for the wrong reason: JETHRO TULL 1978-10-09 Madison Square Garden, NYC (NTSC)

Quote:
Are they all "fair game" to have their integrity removed?
Quote:
Originally Posted by schmoe75
No...

What would you propose?

In regards to rule changes for audio....

I know this is a sore subject for five; the dissemination of altered sources instead of unaltered masters...I'll bet he's got some ideas.......



Quote:
Originally Posted by U2Lynne
We don't want audio changed from lossless to lossy to lossless either. But, the way to accomplish this for audio and video is different and they need different written rules
.

ok, granted......

Quote:
Originally Posted by schmoe75
Indeed and agreed, but we don't want to promote any double standards either, do we?






Quote:
there's a handful of my RAW master recordings already on the way to be shared here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by schmoe75
NICE....though it should, I bet it still doesn't end the discussion on lineage
Well, there's no Led Zeppelin or Zappa involved so it's cool......

Last edited by freezer; 2007-03-04 at 05:07 PM. Reason: typos
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  #30  
Old 2007-03-05, 07:55 AM
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Re: Banned for the wrong reason: JETHRO TULL 1978-10-09 Madison Square Garden, NYC (NTSC)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolKat
Looked at the new Rule 9 Lynne & i think that about makes it as square as possible.


However on reading that i did just happen to read something else.... about RULE 10

10. No Reauthored DVDs are allowed.
We do not allow any reauthored DVDs to be seeded. This includes any DVD9>DVD5 reauthors. Please seed the DVDs in the original released form. Once you download the show, you may do what you want to it, but please don't trade/share your reauthored DVDs here.


Re-authoring does not change anything when making a DvD.The mpeg structure stays the same as it was before it was ,if you see what i mean.
You are only building the info of the mpeg solely so that the player knows the score when it goes to play it.
Where all the chapters are etc.
Supposing i get a DvD in a trade & it has 5 minute chapters at incorrect positions and no menu.Well that would be re-authored to put them in,but the content stays the same.

Surely you mean No Transcoding ie :re-compressed like DvD Shrink does...Not Re-authored i feel

K_K
just want to clarify for others who might read this, yer correct re: transcoding, however this does occur sometimes when re-authoring if someone doesn't really know what they're are doing...

in layman's terms--there are two ways of re-authoring, one which does not include re-compression [which is what you're describing]...the other way includes re-compressing, and is considered a no-no here...

even when it comes to a SA recording that needs menus/chapters, it can be done either way--all we ask is whoever does the re-author know what they're doing so as not to compress again

if anything, i'm glad this thread is leading to some revisions in our FAQ/Rules...clarifying the wording is always a good thing
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