The Traders' Den  

  The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble
 

Notices

Technobabble Post your general Need for Help questions here.
Lossy or Lossless?
Moderators

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #16  
Old 2007-01-20, 11:56 AM
U2Lynne's Avatar
U2Lynne U2Lynne is offline
TTD Staff
471.57 GB/2.01 TB/4.37
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: California
Re: Making menus/setlist for DVD on a Mac

Quote:
Originally Posted by pawel
When you dumux VOBs, you separate them into video and audio stream only, and you do not re/compress anything.
Yep, I figured out yesterday that this is the lossless way to go. I have since gone and just demuxed them and I'll play with them today and see if I can figure out what I want to do.
__________________
Five's Checksums Demystified - everything and anything you want to know about checksums
On a Mac? Get XLD to rip your CDs. Please see this guide - X Lossless Decoder (XLD): How to create flawless CD rips on Mac OS X

TTD GoFundMe Campaign

Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #17  
Old 2007-01-20, 06:44 PM
U2Lynne's Avatar
U2Lynne U2Lynne is offline
TTD Staff
471.57 GB/2.01 TB/4.37
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: California
Re: Making menus/setlist for DVD on a Mac

OK, here are my notes on what I've done so far....

Quote:
- Open MPEG Streamclip
- Import Movie
- Say Yes to fix the timecode breaks
- Demux to M2V and AC3

Ended up with two files... one called VIDEO_TS.m2v, the other VIDEO_TS.ac3

- Downloaded MovieGate
NOTE: I had to download it using Safari. Safari downloaded it as a pkg which immediately launched for installation. Firefox downloaded it as a zip and I could not unzip it. I tried changing the extension to .pkg and changing the application to lauch to Installer, but it still would not launch properly.

- I let the Installer install MovieGate.
- Then I launched MovieGate.
- It said there was an updated version and also showed two things to install - mpeg2enc and mplayer (I think those were the two). I said go ahead and install, so it did and then it restarted MovieGate.
- For Video source, I selected VIDEO_TS.m2v and it automatically also selected VIDEO_TS.ac3 for the Audio Source.
- It said "This is an MPEG-2 video file, do you want to keep this video file as is for authoring, or you want to reencode it?" I said Keep.
- I gave the DVD a name (on the bottom of the window).
- I left all the Information the same since I'm not wanting to change the encoding bitrates at all. Then I clicked on the Add to DVD button (important or you can't get to the Chapters tab!) It then 'blanked' out the fields on that tab.
- A window popped out on the bottom listing the video. It said estimated size of 3743.76, which sounded about right, however it also said length 54:15, which sounds about half the length.

Anyway, then it went on to encode the video and I ended up with a new folder complete with an AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS folder. But, it was different from the first one in size and average video bitrate.

Original folder: 3.77 GB and 4.52 avg video bitrate
New folder: 3.74 GV and 4.48 avg video bitrate
I bolded the part where I think I may have gone wrong. I have done nothing yet to the video. I haven't added chapters or anything. I just did the "Add to DVD" button and it started the encoding and this is what I ended up with. Shouldn't the new video and 'old' video be the same size and have the same avg bitrate since I haven't done anything to them?
__________________
Five's Checksums Demystified - everything and anything you want to know about checksums
On a Mac? Get XLD to rip your CDs. Please see this guide - X Lossless Decoder (XLD): How to create flawless CD rips on Mac OS X

TTD GoFundMe Campaign

Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #18  
Old 2007-01-20, 07:39 PM
ffooky ffooky is offline
14.55 GB/14.69 GB/1.01
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Re: Making menus/setlist for DVD on a Mac

I don't know if MovieGate can accept VOBs straight but I'm pretty sure you could have had MPEG Streamclip convert the VOB to MPEG rather than demuxing it. I've had badly authored DVDs in the past and the MPEGs I've extracted from the dodgy VOB files in order to reauthor have always been differently sized which I've put down to some kind of difference in their headers. The difference in bitrate seems to me to more of a concern. Maybe the timecode breaks have a bearing here ?

Ask the boffins at videohelp ?
__________________
Two tracks for a desert island:

Black Keys - I Got Mine
Tintern Abbey - Vacuum Cleaner
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #19  
Old 2007-01-21, 07:16 PM
pawel's Avatar
pawel pawel is offline
Lockout here
370.16 GB/672.37 GB/1.82
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Poland
Re: Making menus/setlist for DVD on a Mac

I'm a PC freak, so I can't help with a Mac program. Seems that you did all steps OK, what your soft allows to losslessly author a DVD. Small difference in total size of files is because of different size of menu(s).

Time difference can be due false information about DVD contents written by some standalone recorders, which is seen by computer players and authoring programes twice as large - the same video is "repeated".

However, if original video stream has an error, your authoring programe may not import whole video, so compare original and reauthored DVD if everything is OK.

Video bitrate can be changed two ways - see your program manual:

1. Lossless by patching header of the first or all frames. It's like writting a text information to a video file, and not recompressing video itself. It's not neccessary. Sometimes it's done for (old) DVD players which incorrectly read information from the stream. For example first video header is set to maximum, and such bitrate is expected for all frames and red continuously by a player, while the real bitrate changes from frame to frame (variable bitrate, VBR). Also, headers of DVB captures usually have bitrate set over 10 kbps, which is outside DVD standard.

2. Lossy: by rencoding video stream.

Anthing else to clarify?
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #20  
Old 2007-01-30, 01:42 PM
vhate vhate is offline
113.05 GB/65.47 GB/0.58
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Re: Making menus/setlist for DVD on a Mac

well i noticed that many people cant make a menu.. whats the problem?
ive downloaded some dvds and almost all the menus simply dont work.. its a part of the movie, a single chapter, before the actual concert starts..

how come? im sure its not me who does someting wrong

now i have to edit all dvds and make a menu for it..
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #21  
Old 2007-01-30, 01:45 PM
U2Lynne's Avatar
U2Lynne U2Lynne is offline
TTD Staff
471.57 GB/2.01 TB/4.37
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: California
Re: Making menus/setlist for DVD on a Mac

Really? Is the menu not working on both the computer and the DVD player? I have rarely come across a menu that doesn't work. I've come across a few where they goofed on a song or two (where Song A actually links to Song B), but I've rarely, if ever, come across one that plain doesn't work.
__________________
Five's Checksums Demystified - everything and anything you want to know about checksums
On a Mac? Get XLD to rip your CDs. Please see this guide - X Lossless Decoder (XLD): How to create flawless CD rips on Mac OS X

TTD GoFundMe Campaign

Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #22  
Old 2007-01-30, 05:14 PM
vhate vhate is offline
113.05 GB/65.47 GB/0.58
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Re: Making menus/setlist for DVD on a Mac

i didnt burn these dvds yet, the menu's from all of the 8 dvds i downloaded from this site and dimeadozen dont work

with all my other dvds i dont have problems with... so i cant understand what it is..
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #23  
Old 2007-01-31, 06:39 PM
AAR.oner's Avatar
AAR.oner AAR.oner is offline
TTD Staff
1.11 TB/1.41 TB/1.27
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Appalachia
Re: Making menus/setlist for DVD on a Mac

Lynne, how did that dvd authoring program look to you? until i get a new comp, i'm needing a temporary solution for authoring a bunch of shows that are edited and takin up harddrive space...i refuse to use that pos iDVD and can't run DVDSP on this intel mini...those wankers at apple are beginning to disappoint me]

and i like the new av always wondered about the front
__________________
TTD's Gear Lust Forum -- info & reviews on taping gear
The Basics of EQing
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #24  
Old 2007-01-31, 06:54 PM
U2Lynne's Avatar
U2Lynne U2Lynne is offline
TTD Staff
471.57 GB/2.01 TB/4.37
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: California
Re: Making menus/setlist for DVD on a Mac

I got sidetracked with server issues, so the farthest I got was what I wrote above. I do plan on continuing with the project when I have some more time.


Hehe. You guys kept asking for the front, so.....
__________________
Five's Checksums Demystified - everything and anything you want to know about checksums
On a Mac? Get XLD to rip your CDs. Please see this guide - X Lossless Decoder (XLD): How to create flawless CD rips on Mac OS X

TTD GoFundMe Campaign

Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #25  
Old 2007-01-31, 07:41 PM
AAR.oner's Avatar
AAR.oner AAR.oner is offline
TTD Staff
1.11 TB/1.41 TB/1.27
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Appalachia
Re: Making menus/setlist for DVD on a Mac

keep me posted, i'm lookin for somethin that isn't too basic, and'll do the job well [need a good compression prog too, unless i can get Compressor to run on this comp ]
__________________
TTD's Gear Lust Forum -- info & reviews on taping gear
The Basics of EQing
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #26  
Old 2007-02-07, 11:09 AM
MisterPitiful's Avatar
MisterPitiful MisterPitiful is offline
dontneednorespect fromnobodyno
183.03 GB/560.82 GB/3.06
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: if I tell you you won't come again
Re: Making menus/setlist for DVD on a Mac

This may be slightly off topic, but ...

Using MPEG Streamclip, you can also determine the stats for your DVD (rather than using the more complicated method explained in the FAQ).

With a vob file opened in the main window, choose "Show Stream Info" from the file menu (or command-i). It provides all of the stats required by TTD in one handy window.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg streamclip1.jpg
( 97.3 KB, 32 views)
 
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #27  
Old 2007-02-07, 11:34 AM
U2Lynne's Avatar
U2Lynne U2Lynne is offline
TTD Staff
471.57 GB/2.01 TB/4.37
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: California
Re: Making menus/setlist for DVD on a Mac

That's great MisterPitiful! Do you mind if I add that to the FAQ (with credit to you)?
__________________
Five's Checksums Demystified - everything and anything you want to know about checksums
On a Mac? Get XLD to rip your CDs. Please see this guide - X Lossless Decoder (XLD): How to create flawless CD rips on Mac OS X

TTD GoFundMe Campaign

Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #28  
Old 2007-02-07, 11:43 AM
MisterPitiful's Avatar
MisterPitiful MisterPitiful is offline
dontneednorespect fromnobodyno
183.03 GB/560.82 GB/3.06
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: if I tell you you won't come again
Re: Making menus/setlist for DVD on a Mac

Hi.

Please use it in the FAQ. No need to credit me.

However, you'd better use this screen grab instead. The last one had an error in the video bitrate (because I hadn't fixed the time code breaks). Also, this one uses the current version of MPEG Streamclip.

Cheers.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg streamclip.jpg
( 98.4 KB, 29 views)
 
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #29  
Old 2007-02-07, 11:59 AM
U2Lynne's Avatar
U2Lynne U2Lynne is offline
TTD Staff
471.57 GB/2.01 TB/4.37
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: California
Re: Making menus/setlist for DVD on a Mac

I just added it here: http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/...aq_video_stats I think I got all the steps correct. This is soooooo much easier than the method we were using before!
__________________
Five's Checksums Demystified - everything and anything you want to know about checksums
On a Mac? Get XLD to rip your CDs. Please see this guide - X Lossless Decoder (XLD): How to create flawless CD rips on Mac OS X

TTD GoFundMe Campaign

Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #30  
Old 2007-02-08, 07:55 AM
AAR.oner's Avatar
AAR.oner AAR.oner is offline
TTD Staff
1.11 TB/1.41 TB/1.27
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Appalachia
Re: Making menus/setlist for DVD on a Mac

just want to note that MPEGStreamclip does not give completely accurate video bitrate info, due to the fact the it doesn't distinguish between CBR and VBR encoding...so if you run it on all vob files, the bit rate is just an average [when it comes to VBR compressed discs]...not a big deal, but worth noting ffor anyone reading this down the road
__________________
TTD's Gear Lust Forum -- info & reviews on taping gear
The Basics of EQing
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
Reply

The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble

Similar Threads
Thread Forum Replies Last Post
How do I add chapters, menus, etc. - The Perfect Kisser! Technobabble 2 2008-07-10 07:24 AM
Whats a good MAC program for making DVD menus? - camelwalker Technobabble 3 2008-03-05 08:40 PM
Reauthoring menus - Fishdisease Technobabble 7 2006-10-18 09:06 PM
Do most of these dvds have menus? - Jobiwan24 Technobabble 6 2006-08-21 06:05 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forums


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:46 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - , TheTradersDen.org - All Rights Reserved - Hosted at QuickPacket
no new posts