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  #31  
Old 2005-02-04, 12:39 AM
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Re: how to prevent idiots from remastering already mastered shows ?

excellent post ninja, perfect example are these bertha remasters, zeppelin in st.louis (2.16.75) and frankfurt (6.30.80)which are soundboard and flawless in sound was remastered twice. why? what's the point? the first remaster was perfect... I don't understand why not remaster a show that is inferior in sound then one that isn't.
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  #32  
Old 2005-02-04, 01:52 AM
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Re: how to prevent idiots from remastering already mastered shows ?

Interesting. The comment about posting MD5's to a website and verifying with the website MD5s... what if someone created a universal server that hosted MD5 files... and instead of including and md5, you would include a small executable file that would test your files according to the md5 that the seeder uploaded to that machine... this could go somewhere... who's interested?
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  #33  
Old 2005-02-04, 10:48 AM
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Re: how to prevent idiots from remastering already mastered shows ?

bowman, it's called db.etree.org, which hosts md5s of circulating shows for jam bands that allow trading of their music, i.e. Grateful Dead, Phish, etc.

As for bands that don't specifically allow such trading, it would probably make sense for a fansite of each band to post md5s like that. But someone has to set it up, spend the money, etc. Etree would be the model to follow though.
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  #34  
Old 2009-10-06, 11:51 AM
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Re: how to prevent idiots from remastering already mastered shows ?

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  #35  
Old 2009-10-06, 06:00 PM
J.R. Ewing J.R. Ewing is offline
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Re: how to prevent idiots from remastering already mastered shows ?

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Originally Posted by Five View Post
some good humorous posts in that thread, son! humor with a purpose. that's what ol' J.R. likes to read of an evening!
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  #36  
Old 2009-10-26, 01:53 AM
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Re: how to prevent idiots from remastering already mastered shows ?

It takes an incredibly light touch to do remastering without doing some harm of some sort - perhaps impossible without losing some aspect of the audio. But I agree with the Fairport comment above - I don't care if people remaster something, I'd rather listen to something approaching decent than something unlistenable.

However, obviously the problem is if that word "remaster" disappears somewhere along the line... which ultimately seems inevitable. I much appreciate this site in particular in that there are hard and fast rules regarding providing lineage, but in some cases, how in the world can anyone know that it's accurate? I know there's some shady uploaders in the world, but even the honest ones only know for sure that they're holding some files. I really like the plugin idea - but then again, all you know is that you can separate what the last remasterer did from what they started with.

It is a big problem if you're collecting, archiving. Drives me crazy sometimes.

And don't even get me started about people calling FM Broadcasts taped off the radio "Soundboards". :-)
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  #37  
Old 2009-10-26, 02:16 AM
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Re: how to prevent idiots from remastering already mastered shows ?

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Originally Posted by RainDawg View Post
LOL Katz....all of those codecs have been broken. There's always a way to get the audio data OUT of a file once it's put in there.

The best way is to take FLAC fingerprints of your files before you send them out. Then post those to a webspace, and let people know whever you seen that show that if their files don't match your fingerprints, it's not the originally seeded versions.

This is something I want to implement for every single seed here, but have had a difficult time getting it started.
mission accomplished
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  #38  
Old 2009-10-26, 09:11 AM
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Re: how to prevent idiots from remastering already mastered shows ?

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Re: how to prevent idiots from remastering already mastered shows ?
only one answer to this question -- don't share your shows...with anyone
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  #39  
Old 2009-10-29, 09:47 PM
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Re: how to prevent idiots from remastering already mastered shows ?

On a related topic (kinda)... how many shows have I grabbed with the dreaded processing called "normalize". I would love to write a "sticky" for all newbies in an effort to stem the tide. However, it has now become an emotionally charged topic for me. LOL!

Every program has this feature sitting there for anyone to use. I mean, shouldn't you have to pass some kind of test first? So many shows that are unlistenable to my ears. The masters may have had some dynamic range, but that just goes out the window 99% of the time. Sorry to whine... really!

I still have a volume control to allow under-recorded sources to be played back comfortably. Those recordings sound just fine before being normalized in almost every case.

Remember - friends don't let friends use "normalize"! Pardon me while I go look for a "praying smilie" to attach (- or maybe a "groveling smilie").
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  #40  
Old 2009-10-29, 10:49 PM
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Re: how to prevent idiots from remastering already mastered shows ?

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Originally Posted by cicada View Post
On a related topic (kinda)... how many shows have I grabbed with the dreaded processing called "normalize". I would love to write a "sticky" for all newbies in an effort to stem the tide. However, it has now become an emotionally charged topic for me. LOL!

Every program has this feature sitting there for anyone to use. I mean, shouldn't you have to pass some kind of test first? So many shows that are unlistenable to my ears. The masters may have had some dynamic range, but that just goes out the window 99% of the time. Sorry to whine... really!

I still have a volume control to allow under-recorded sources to be played back comfortably. Those recordings sound just fine before being normalized in almost every case.

Remember - friends don't let friends use "normalize"! Pardon me while I go look for a "praying smilie" to attach (- or maybe a "groveling smilie").
If a recording is normalized properly, you'll never know. Virtually every
compact disc produced has been processed, including normalization. peak
limiting, compression, etc.

Unless the user drives the signal into clipping, the only errors introduced
are from the requantization. Obviously, the better the software, the better
the normalization.

Just turning up the volume when listening to an "under-recorded" source
will also bring up the noise floor in your playback equipment. I find this just
as objectionable......
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  #41  
Old 2009-10-30, 02:18 AM
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Re: how to prevent idiots from remastering already mastered shows ?

Showtaper, I appreciate your statements about normalization. I have listened to hi-gen analog tapes for too many years to truly trust my ears. But, why do so many of the recordings in the "pool" sound horrible after being normalized?

Although exceptions exist - maybe some who adhere to "proper" techniques & better eqpt... there seems to be a muddiness after normalization
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  #42  
Old 2009-10-30, 09:02 AM
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Re: how to prevent idiots from remastering already mastered shows ?

there shouldn't be any change to the dynamic range after normalization...now if they use compression, yeah -- but normalizing applies a constant amount of gain to the entire recording, no different than "turning up the volume"
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  #43  
Old 2009-10-30, 03:31 PM
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Re: how to prevent idiots from remastering already mastered shows ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by uhclem View Post
bowman, it's called db.etree.org, which hosts md5s of circulating shows for jam bands that allow trading of their music, i.e. Grateful Dead, Phish, etc.

As for bands that don't specifically allow such trading, it would probably make sense for a fansite of each band to post md5s like that. But someone has to set it up, spend the money, etc. Etree would be the model to follow though.
I created a site for the bands that etree won't handle as far as assigning ID's ect. It also backs up etree's data. It's well on it's way and we have some big upgrades in progress including an artwork and picture database that is linked to the show record.

www.livemusicpreservationproject.com

Getting the shows in a database and assigning an ID is the absolute best wa to allow you to be sure that your original source is identifiable as such. Take the site for a spin. Spread the word if ya like it.
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-------------------
db.etree - ID's assinged for audio of bands that are confirmed taper friendly
http://db.etree.org/
-------------------
Live Music Preservation Project (aka LMPP) - ID's assinged for all artists and formats etree won't handle
www.livemusicpreservationproject.com
-------------------
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  #44  
Old 2009-10-30, 05:44 PM
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Re: how to prevent idiots from remastering already mastered shows ?

It depends on the type of normalization.

Peak normalization just raises the volume so that the peaks reach the set level (e.g., if you set to -.01dB the highest peaks will now be at -.01dB). The dynamic range is preserved, as everything is raised equally. No different than turning up the volume on your stereo.

RMS normalization normalizes to an average, may utilize compression, and can crush the dynamics if heavy-handed. Any use will tend to reduce the dynamics, but it can be done well.

On the whole, obviously, peak normalization is the way to go. It's just adding gain to a source to get it where you want it.
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  #45  
Old 2009-10-30, 09:06 PM
chinajoe chinajoe is offline
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Re: how to prevent idiots from remastering already mastered shows ?

can we have tags to show if its been normalized or remastered?
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