The Traders' Den  

  The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble
 

Notices

Technobabble Post your general Need for Help questions here.
Lossy or Lossless?
Moderators

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #16  
Old 2005-01-25, 07:08 PM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: how to prevent idiots from remastering already mastered shows ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NINJA
if i were to do that i might as well keep listening to the cassettes and not waste my time !

why would one bother to tranfer cassettes to digital if not to improv the quality


i know people that have cdr from around 1985 that are starting to go bad so
as far as i can tell thats not a whole lot better than tape!

if you dont remaster do the whole world a favor and keep it analog
well, that's not true because the tapes will wear out then the damage is done. when you transfer to digital with checksums maybe that cdr will eventually go bad but so long as it gets copied every couple years it is safe. that's the trouble with digital, you have to keep it moving so it doesn't fade away.
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #17  
Old 2005-01-25, 08:33 PM
NINJA's Avatar
NINJA NINJA is offline
Banned
795.31 MB/607.86 MB/0.76
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Re: how to prevent idiots from remastering already mastered shows ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Homebrew
I bet the people who taped the shows you are "mastering" wonder the same thing about what you're doing.

...

i dont think so they usually end up asking me for and or leeching my torrents
but maybe you should ask them
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #18  
Old 2005-01-25, 11:43 PM
uhclem
0.00 KB/0.00 KB/---
 
Re: how to prevent idiots from remastering already mastered shows ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NINJA
if i were to do that i might as well keep listening to the cassettes and not waste my time !

why would one bother to tranfer cassettes to digital if not to improv the quality

if you dont remaster do the whole world a favor and keep it analog
You're kidding, right?
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #19  
Old 2005-02-01, 09:31 AM
rerem
0.00 KB/0.00 KB/---
 
Re: how to prevent idiots from remastering already mastered shows ?

How can anyone prevent idiots from doing anything? Hey,just turn on the News,lotta idiots. In this context-I don't bother to tweak what is already about as good as it will get,but on the other hand I also have dl'd a few shows that were beyond what Soundforge or Wavelab could salvage. Some remasters I know,Wolf,Bertha,Doug Oade, and they are good,though what they do is actually more master than remaster. I have cleaned up some real flawed stuff,that nobody had restored,usually those were relatively old multi-gen or off pitch-However NEVER did I remaster a Ninja download...after all,I'm no IDIOT
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #20  
Old 2005-02-01, 10:22 PM
livedead13's Avatar
livedead13 livedead13 is offline
37.97 GB/36.00 GB/0.95
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Re: how to prevent idiots from remastering already mastered shows ?

Don't share.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #21  
Old 2005-02-03, 01:06 AM
malick's Avatar
malick malick is offline
20.94 GB/21.04 GB/1.00
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: OC and wondering why
Re: how to prevent idiots from remastering already mastered shows ?

good question, but no solution. Re-re-re-re-mastering will be the bane of traders for generations to come. Hang onto those tapes!
__________________
"I see The Nile Song ... Ok alright fine wonderful
good right terrific great wonderful The Nile Song,
....... never heard of it"

Roger Waters - Hamburg 1970
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #22  
Old 2005-02-03, 09:00 AM
h_vargas
0.00 KB/0.00 KB/---
 
Re: how to prevent idiots from remastering already mastered shows ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NINJA
if i were to do that i might as well keep listening to the cassettes and not waste my time !

why would one bother to tranfer cassettes to digital if not to improv the quality


i know people that have cdr from around 1985 that are starting to go bad so
as far as i can tell thats not a whole lot better than tape!

if you dont remaster do the whole world a favor and keep it analog

i tried to resist the urge, but forget it, i'm going to put in a reply to this post.

why would anyone bother tot ransfer cassettes to digital (CDR) if not to improve the quality? one word: PRESERVATION. like someone else said, analog tapes will deteriorate over time, and with a show on CDR/DVDR, as long as it's re-copied every couple of years (and on good media), it will be fine. oh, and there's not much chance of an audio CD getting eaten by a cd player; unlike a cassette getting eaten by an old tape player.

also, wow! as i recall, i read that CD-R technology wasn't even introduced until around 1988 or so. (and by "introduced," that would mean that not many people would have that technology.) maybe your friend/acquaintance had the prototype CDR recorder and the very first CD-R disc created...? i bet they felt bad because they spent $100+ for that CD-R disc. (that's right, CD-Rs used to cost $100+ per blank. talk about frustration when you burned a coaster.)

back to the topic at hand. my goal(s) are obviously different than yours with regard to analog transfers. my goal being, most importantly, to preserve the show. i like to pretty much transfer analog shows direct to hard drive, use a lossless compression and store them on data discs (all to preserve them). i don't do any processing at all for the data archive material (no splitting tracks, no fade ins/outs). that way, i always have the original transferred audio in its original digital stage. when i want to burn an audio copy to listen to, i just decode the show to WAV format, then do any track splitting and changing i want to do, and then burn it to audio cd. but those copies never go anywhere for trades or anything.

there are a lot of people out there ("cool edit kings" and "soundforge saviors") who really screw up recordings more than help them. audio mastering is not simply running a recording through a preset for a plugin. try hiss removal with a preset for a plugin, and you'll quickly find the music is likely screwed up totally.

there's really no way to stop people from remastering your transfers, except to not trade/share the transfer. since there are so many audio professionals out there (sarcasm intended) who remaster every show ever put out for download, why not just put out an original mostly-untouched transfer that way people can trade the original, and the "audio engineers" out there can screw up the recording for themselves however they want?
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #23  
Old 2005-02-03, 12:53 PM
9450 Mastering
0.00 KB/0.00 KB/---
 
Re: how to prevent idiots from remastering already mastered shows ?

there are a lot of people out there ("cool edit kings" and "soundforge saviors") who really screw up recordings more than help them. audio mastering is not simply running a recording through a preset for a plugin. try hiss removal with a preset for a plugin, and you'll quickly find the music is likely screwed up totally.



I am a Cubase Cracker, but your words are true. And the technique for hiss removal is true too. I tend to do it incrementally. But that is me and I do restoration for a living. And as soon as I figure out my firewall I'll let a few loose and see what the mods think.

I try not to adjust things too much, mostly image correction, and some eq on the old stuff. Frequency isolation is a fine art and most of what I have heard from d/l'd "Remasters" is overdone. Keep it simple.

Its too bad there is no standard in the trading world like lossless media. You can only do x or x, but that is limited to budget and gear and the ears. I have my own dedicated workstation and outboard gear and our soundforge saviors may use some warezed version of t-racks or ozone and say its the sh*t. You can tell pretty much what has been done....the more processing the more degraded the audio signal whether analog or digital.

Or maybe have a board of govenors on the subject, have the seed sent to them to determine if it is worthy. But that is alot of time that folks dont have, just some ideas........
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #24  
Old 2005-02-03, 06:03 PM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: how to prevent idiots from remastering already mastered shows ?

I think Walk explains it best over on zappateers.com
http://www.zappateers.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=679

to sum it up,
1. circulate a cloned version of the lowest gen source available.
2. circulate a potentially improved version (optional).
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #25  
Old 2005-02-03, 07:24 PM
wazoo2u wazoo2u is offline
923.61 MB/96.22 MB/0.10
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Re: how to prevent idiots from remastering already mastered shows ?

I like the idea of having a container that carries Metadata for the processing. That way, changes are easily both documented and made.

Avid works partially this way (don't know if ProTools does), but their system is fault intolerant and program fault feedback is non existant.

Perhaps a Professional Audio Manufacturer will step up to the plate and design a workable system.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #26  
Old 2005-02-03, 10:07 PM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: how to prevent idiots from remastering already mastered shows ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wazoo2u
I like the idea of having a container that carries Metadata for the processing. That way, changes are easily both documented and made.

Avid works partially this way (don't know if ProTools does), but their system is fault intolerant and program fault feedback is non existant.

Perhaps a Professional Audio Manufacturer will step up to the plate and design a workable system.
the cpu power necessary to run several DX/VST/RTAS plugins is too much, then there's the additional problem that in order to play back the file all plugins used would have to be installed. Then what about small edits, pop/click fixes and filled analog dropouts?

it's a good idea but it will be a long time before it happens (if it ever does).
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #27  
Old 2005-02-03, 10:28 PM
wazoo2u wazoo2u is offline
923.61 MB/96.22 MB/0.10
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Re: how to prevent idiots from remastering already mastered shows ?

Use Dual Zeon's w 2 Gig RAM ??

Editing fixes are the least of the worries. Those are often times easier to accomplish than proper use of dynamics or eq. Yes the "container" can include the edits and fills, because they're also just pointers to the modification of the original media.

Basically, it comes down to the fact that I wouldn't trust MOST people to make quality judgements on audio remastering. I mean... look at the signal chain most folks have their computer rig running thru, and you get an idea how inaccurate these attempts would be.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #28  
Old 2005-02-03, 10:46 PM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
TTD Staff
186.65 GB/588.32 GB/3.15
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: how to prevent idiots from remastering already mastered shows ?

okay then all we need is somebody to program it and the trading community to accept it.

any takers?

*tumbleweed passes by*
__________________
Checksums Demystified EAC Config MakeTorrent WinAmp Config

Modern social theory casts a highly skeptical eye on any declaration that a group of persons is without conflict, and insists, on the contrary, that conflict is natural to groups, and even more, is essential to them. -Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #29  
Old 2005-02-03, 10:52 PM
wazoo2u wazoo2u is offline
923.61 MB/96.22 MB/0.10
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Re: how to prevent idiots from remastering already mastered shows ?

Well hey... Jay Ashley's only got so much time ya know ???
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #30  
Old 2005-02-03, 11:47 PM
rerem
0.00 KB/0.00 KB/---
 
Re: how to prevent idiots from remastering already mastered shows ?

and what about when I DL something like a 1972 Fairport Convention and it sounds like 3+ gens of NO-dolby hiss from the analog plus a pitch problem and a fairly tubby midbase. It is either fix it or junk it. It was claimed to be pretty good- as is.it was intolerable. I wasted a lot of time working it to where it was just adequate. If I did not have a good amp and speakers for the job,of course I probably would have done worse. Had that been off a good SBD reel source,not a multigen cheap mic cassette,I'd be reluctant to alter it. I would prefer to only get the sort of quality that does not tempt me to do a salvage. I don't see a point in preserving flaws
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
Reply

The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble

Tags
chinajoe, eq hack jobs, ninja remasters mp3 files, remastered, skoochie is ninja

Similar Threads
Thread Forum Replies Last Post
Mastered from VHS - jobats Lossy or Lossless? 2 2005-03-15 08:30 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forums


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:29 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - , TheTradersDen.org - All Rights Reserved - Hosted at QuickPacket
no new posts