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Lossy or Lossless? Please use this forum to post spectral and frequency analysis posts about shows you have your doubts about.

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  #16  
Old 2005-11-04, 11:12 AM
mort
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Re: opinions on this one with dreaded 16 khz stripe

Quote:
Originally Posted by *dJ*
I also have a recording with a 16 kHz stripe, but it also has a stripe around 18,5 kHz.

All info about source is:
sbd or broadcast ? > ???? > cd-r > eac > wav > dbpoweramp > flac

Can I savely say this is FM sourced?




PS. I hope it's okay I put it in this thread..

SURE WHY NOT !
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  #17  
Old 2005-11-04, 12:51 PM
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Re: opinions on this one with dreaded 16 khz stripe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five
it could be fm or tv
How can it possibly be FM with all that activity (not just noise) well over 15KHz?
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  #18  
Old 2005-11-04, 12:56 PM
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Re: opinions on this one with dreaded 16 khz stripe

I think it came up in another thread that with some broadcast-sourced shows there's been music (no just noise) above 15kHz with a stripe. 99.9% of all fm or tv broadcasts (I would like to say 100) have the stripe and a slightly uneven cutoff around 15kHz... so this is strange indeed

So could this be caused by a bad soundcard? HIFI VHS archiving, perhaps?
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  #19  
Old 2005-11-06, 09:02 AM
mort
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Re: opinions on this one with dreaded 16 khz stripe

Quote:
Originally Posted by mort


THIS COMES FROM A TORRENT BY J. P. F. !

LOOKS LIKE HE NEEDS TO SPEND A LITTLE LESS ON BOOZE AND MORE ON A SOUND CARD


I MEAN REALLY

DOING TRANSFERS WITH A SOUNDCARD THAT IS BUILT INTO THE MOTHER BOARD IS A TOTAL WASTE OF TIME

ITS NO WONDER HE WONT TORRENT HERE
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  #20  
Old 2005-11-06, 12:09 PM
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Re: opinions on this one with dreaded 16 khz stripe

Here's a quick one to show what a cheap soundcard looks like with no input.

To enhance the stripes a bit, I normalized the file by 10% and boosed the high end by 10db. These settings could be used by someone to boost the volume and compensate for missing highs on an old cassette recording.

The moral: not every artifact is from lossy compression. With a little work, I can probably duplicate most waveform distortions.....
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  #21  
Old 2005-11-06, 12:11 PM
mort
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Re: opinions on this one with dreaded 16 khz stripe

Quote:
Originally Posted by showtaper
Here's a quick one to show what a cheap soundcard looks like with no input.
To enhance the stripes a bit, I normalized the file by 10% and boosed the high end by 10db. These settings could be used by someone to boost the volume and compensate for missing highs on an old cassette recording.

The moral: not every artifact is from lossy compression. With a little work, I can probably duplicate most waveform distortions.....


conclusion noise and distortion induced by poor soundcards can appear to be
music but is just noise and distortion !
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  #22  
Old 2005-11-06, 01:08 PM
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Re: opinions on this one with dreaded 16 khz stripe

Quote:
Originally Posted by mort
conclusion noise and distortion induced by poor soundcards can appear to be
music but is just noise and distortion !

Yeah, I just don't like people claiming everything that they see is lossy compression when there are a LOT of other things that show up in a signal.....


Mort, please PM or email me, I think we traded a bunch of Tull shows in the past.....(showtaper@hotmail.com)
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  #23  
Old 2005-11-06, 03:08 PM
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Re: opinions on this one with dreaded 16 khz stripe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five
it could be fm or tv
Actually I suspect that it's straight sbd / prefm. FM/TV broadcasting inevitably lowpasses the signal somewhere below 16kHz.


One example of a prefm show with "The Stripe" would be this one:

http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-d...b.php?id=11741
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  #24  
Old 2005-11-07, 01:43 AM
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Re: opinions on this one with dreaded 16 khz stripe

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssamadhi97
Actually I suspect that it's straight sbd / prefm. FM/TV broadcasting inevitably lowpasses the signal somewhere below 16kHz.


One example of a prefm show with "The Stripe" would be this one:

http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-d...b.php?id=11741
A true pre-FM would have no stripe, the carrier that causes the stripe happens when the signal is broadcast. Pre-FM's are either air-checks (recorded from the console) or a copy of the raw tape and would not be limited in frequency response or have the FM carrier.....
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  #25  
Old 2005-11-07, 08:46 PM
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Re: opinions on this one with dreaded 16 khz stripe

Quote:
Originally Posted by showtaper
A true pre-FM would have no stripe, the carrier that causes the stripe happens when the signal is broadcast. Pre-FM's are either air-checks (recorded from the console) or a copy of the raw tape and would not be limited in frequency response or have the FM carrier.....
*ehem* if by "FM carrier" you mean the stereo pilot tone, that would be at 19kHz and not at 16kHz.
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  #26  
Old 2005-11-11, 11:44 AM
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Re: opinions on this one with dreaded 16 khz stripe

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssamadhi97
*ehem* if by "FM carrier" you mean the stereo pilot tone, that would be at 19kHz and not at 16kHz.
You are correct. I've already shown how a poor soundcard can introduce
"stripes" at 16kHz (among other frequencies)........
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  #27  
Old 2005-11-22, 07:38 AM
mort
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Re: opinions on this one with dreaded 16 khz stripe

Quote:
Originally Posted by showtaper
You are correct. I've already shown how a poor soundcard can introduce
"stripes" at 16kHz (among other frequencies)........


I HAVE BEEN TELLING PEOPLE THIS FOR 10 YEARS BUT THEY ARE TO IGNORANT TO BELIVE IT OR TO DUMB TO UNDERSTAND IT !

AND DONT EVEN GET ME STARTED ABOUT THE CASSETTE AND MIC FREQUENCY LIMITATIONS
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  #28  
Old 2005-11-22, 07:40 AM
mort
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Re: opinions on this one with dreaded 16 khz stripe

Quote:
Originally Posted by showtaper
Here's a quick one to show what a cheap soundcard looks like with no input.

To enhance the stripes a bit, I normalized the file by 10% and boosed the high end by 10db. These settings could be used by someone to boost the volume and compensate for missing highs on an old cassette recording.

The moral: not every artifact is from lossy compression. With a little work, I can probably duplicate most waveform distortions.....


DAMN ALL THOSE RED SPECKS ARE NOTHING BUT HISS NOISE AND DISTORTION CORRECT !


WAS THIS A SND CARD THAT IS BUILT INTO A MOTHERBOARD ?

I HEAR THOSE ARE REALLY FUCKING AWFUL
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  #29  
Old 2005-11-22, 07:43 AM
mort
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Re: opinions on this one with dreaded 16 khz stripe

I Have A Couple Of Decent Sound Cards Id Be Willing To Send To Anyone Wishing To Avoid This Crap

Just Pay The Postage !

Provided They Are Willing To Share There Collection !
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  #30  
Old 2005-11-22, 07:46 AM
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Re: opinions on this one with dreaded 16 khz stripe

Quote:
Originally Posted by mort
DAMN ALL THOSE RED SPECKS ARE NOTHING BUT HISS NOISE AND DISTORTION CORRECT !


WAS THIS A SND CARD THAT IS BUILT INTO A MOTHERBOARD ?

I HEAR THOSE ARE REALLY FUCKING AWFUL
Yeah, this was from an on-board card. The rest of the crap is the other miscellaneous noise components the card introduces, Just remember I did normalize a bit to emphasize what happens when you boost a signal that was captured with insufficient volume. That would bring up the lower level noise as well as any tape hiss that was captured.

The moral:

Get a freaking decent soundcard. Some experts recommend an external card so that you dont pick up any additional noise from the hi-frequency components in side the computer.

If you don't capture or induce noise, you won't have to try to take it out.......
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