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  #61  
Old 2005-08-11, 03:09 PM
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Re: Standards for Naming Torrent Folders

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoldCaptain
This subject is actually one of my biggest pet-peeves. Almost half of the files I download need to be renamed before I decode and burn them. Any standardization is surely a good thing....
No need to apologize, I totally agree, BoldCaptain, I had exactly the same motivation for my first post in this thread. Worse, if you torrent from certain other (not to be mentioned) sites, I am finding every other show has SBE problems, files not named to line up properly, no ffps... it is taking me hours to even get enough shows fixed to burn 1 DVDs-worth. What a pain!! When do I actually get to listen to the music?? But if you want to trade shows, you have to go though all of this, I won't trade with people who don't care enough to keep proper digital archives.

That is why I am hoping Trader's Den will become known as a "Mark of Quality", I don't see much hope for most of those other sites.
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  #62  
Old 2005-08-11, 04:42 PM
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Re: Standards for Naming Torrent Folders

Quote:
Originally Posted by U2Lynne
Damn, are you Stephen in disguise (RainDawg here, or sol4578 on STG)? He has a similar idea for here.
Actually, I am he. I used to be known as sol4590 (sol4578 sound like an imposter).

I think this is my first post in the public board in a number of months, so hello again everyone!
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  #63  
Old 2005-08-11, 04:53 PM
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Re: Standards for Naming Torrent Folders

As to the contents of this thread, which Lynne asked me to comment on, here's the concept that I came up with about a year ago:

Every torrent, after being uploaded, would have a unique database entry added. It would record the fingerprint that was submitted when the seed was started. It would also allow certain users to "rate" the shows, filling in information in a simple form such as "sector aligned", "digitally flawless", etc. That way, when someone down the road would grab a show, they could look it up on TTD, compare the audio checksums, and see what other people had to say about it. They could cerify that their audio was identical to what was uploaded, make sure it was digitally flawless, etc.

The project was stalled because I was unable to convince enough people that we should require ONLY shntool md5s and/or ffps to be sent. As you all know, wholefile md5s would make the database obsolete before it was even rolled, as the etree database has become with the widespread adoption of flac seeds.

After going through many months of discussion on the topic, and too many people unwilling to budge on learning to use shntool, I abandoned it. Many of you may recall my since-abandoned project to bring the world an shntool frontend, which would have facilitated the adoption of this project. My free time dried up, the project steadily slipped on my priority list, and eventually both the frontend and the database got shelved due to my not having anyone with time/motivation to help.

But yes, what has been mentioned in this thread is very similar to my idea. In the months since then, I've learned enough php/mysql to do this project myself, but right now I do not have the time to pick it back up. In fact, over the past 1/2 a year I've not really had much to do anything music related, and my collection has fallen into a bit of disarray....but that's a topic for another thread I suppose.
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  #64  
Old 2005-08-11, 05:35 PM
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Re: Standards for Naming Torrent Folders

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoldCaptain
This subject is actually one of my biggest pet-peeves. Almost half of the files I download need to be renamed before I decode and burn them.
WOW, Really? Why?
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  #65  
Old 2005-08-11, 05:39 PM
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Re: Standards for Naming Torrent Folders

Quote:
Originally Posted by guygee

But let's look at the opposite extreme, "taper unknown", and shows with many versions (boots and otherwise). Then I advocate that we loosen the rules "just enough" to get the music out there in the hands of the fans.

This may be the only sensible thing you have said in this thread...
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  #66  
Old 2005-08-11, 05:46 PM
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Re: Standards for Naming Torrent Folders

RainDawg - I find your "Video Seeing Policy" in your signature down right offensive. I mean who is to say what is to be seen and what is not. j/k
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  #67  
Old 2005-08-11, 06:50 PM
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Re: Standards for Naming Torrent Folders

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainDawg
As to the contents of this thread, which Lynne asked me to comment on, here's the concept that I came up with about a year ago:

Every torrent, after being uploaded, would have a unique database entry added. It would record the fingerprint that was submitted when the seed was started. It would also allow certain users to "rate" the shows, filling in information in a simple form such as "sector aligned", "digitally flawless", etc. That way, when someone down the road would grab a show, they could look it up on TTD, compare the audio checksums, and see what other people had to say about it. They could cerify that their audio was identical to what was uploaded, make sure it was digitally flawless, etc.

The project was stalled because I was unable to convince enough people that we should require ONLY shntool md5s and/or ffps to be sent. As you all know, wholefile md5s would make the database obsolete before it was even rolled, as the etree database has become with the widespread adoption of flac seeds.

After going through many months of discussion on the topic, and too many people unwilling to budge on learning to use shntool, I abandoned it. Many of you may recall my since-abandoned project to bring the world an shntool frontend, which would have facilitated the adoption of this project. My free time dried up, the project steadily slipped on my priority list, and eventually both the frontend and the database got shelved due to my not having anyone with time/motivation to help.

But yes, what has been mentioned in this thread is very similar to my idea. In the months since then, I've learned enough php/mysql to do this project myself, but right now I do not have the time to pick it back up. In fact, over the past 1/2 a year I've not really had much to do anything music related, and my collection has fallen into a bit of disarray....but that's a topic for another thread I suppose.
The "Trader's Little Helper" frontend that feralacious kindly directed me to is so easy to use, there should be no more excuses for not having st5's/ffp's and a shntool.txt in your upload folder. Seriously, I am going back and using it on all my shows (and doing a lot of SBE fixes). Here is a suggestion: if the seeder's don't use it, leave a placeholder in the DB that we are discussing, and let one of the serious collectors for that show upload it themselves. Same goes for infofiles, shntool LEN output and spectrograph screen captures. Then, give them credit for contributing. If they get it wrong, all eyes will see. db.etree works pretty much like that, the user's contribute showinfo for most of the shows.

Gotta go for a few hours, let me know what you think of this approach.
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  #68  
Old 2005-08-11, 06:53 PM
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Re: Standards for Naming Torrent Folders

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcrab66
This may be the only sensible thing you have said in this thread...
Well thanks jcrab66 (I think).

First show I tape is dedicated to you and freezer...
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  #69  
Old 2005-08-11, 07:13 PM
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Re: Standards for Naming Torrent Folders

Quote:
Originally Posted by guygee
First show I tape is dedicated to you and freezer...


Sorry I got your old screen name wrong, Stephen. I knew it started with Sol....

And Guy, we actually do allow CDR(x) on the older shows because we *know* that getting a master copy is pretty unrealistic and same thing with unknown source. We have plenty of those. But, when someone says they have no lineage at all, that is not true. If they got a CDR in a trade, the lineage would still look something like: CDR(x) > EAC > wav > TLH > flac and so we *want* that lineage stated. What we don't want, of course, is CDR(x) when there is the original Silver that the CDR(x) was copied from or if there are lossless files from the taper already out there in existance. I think you probably know a lot of that, but I just thought I ought to state it for anyone else reading this thread.
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  #70  
Old 2005-08-11, 09:29 PM
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Re: Standards for Naming Torrent Folders

Quote:
Originally Posted by guygee
Well thanks jcrab66 (I think).

First show I tape is dedicated to you and freezer...


Well thanks guygee (I think.)

But I won't hold my breath waiting.

And about the 9 previously UNCIRCULATED shows I just sent out to 3 different folks here at TTD, should I have sent more lineage than cdr(x)???

I sincerely hope that's enough lineage to help you out with your project.

"I just thought I ought to state it for anyone else reading this thread."




Quote:
Originally Posted by U2Lynne
And Guy, we actually do allow CDR(x)........

........I think you probably know a lot of that, but I just thought I ought to state it for anyone else reading this thread.
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  #71  
Old 2005-08-11, 10:50 PM
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Re: Standards for Naming Torrent Folders

Quote:
Originally Posted by freezer


Well thanks guygee (I think.)

But I won't hold my breath waiting.
Funny, freezer, I was going to add the same disclaimer, But when I DO go see a show, you and jcrab66 convinced me, what could it hurt to wear a stealth set-up? I know that I would love to have the master tape of most shows I have seen in my life, and I would be happy to share if it was worthwhile listening. So I am going to start researching gear, and keep my eyes out for artists and bands that I like, hopefully in a small venue. Like, if Ornette Coleman comes around, I'll be on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by freezer
And about the 9 previously UNCIRCULATED shows I just sent out to 3 different folks here at TTD, should I have sent more lineage than cdr(x)???
I am sure the TTD folks would want all of the lineage they can get. But we are not always so fortunate. Does Peter Losin have all the lineage for all the shows listed on his "Miles Ahead" site? That's a definite no, I am sure, but I'll wager he spent 100's or 1000's of hours trading for multiple versions and sorting though his collection looking for best sources. If he can do it, with all of the good people here we should be able to do it too.

I think you mentioned somewhere that you took a break for awhile, so probably Nth-gen versions of your shows circulated then without lineage, but fortunately you came back and now we can have the some of the masters. We are lucky that you have been so kind. But some tapers don't come back. The plan would be to work our way up in quality, even though we might not always know the lineage at least we can listen as a group and use spectral analysis tools to help decide what is "best circulating source".

Last edited by guygee; 2005-08-11 at 10:56 PM.
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  #72  
Old 2005-08-11, 11:43 PM
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Re: Standards for Naming Torrent Folders

Quote:
Originally Posted by guygee
So I am going to start researching gear
if you need any help or advice in regards to this then send me a PM, happy to help...
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  #73  
Old 2005-08-12, 12:23 AM
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Re: Standards for Naming Torrent Folders

Quote:
Originally Posted by guygee
Funny, freezer, I was going to add the same disclaimer....
Go ahead, the first package I was to which I was referring already arrived before this thread started.

doorcoq should have something up this weekend.

And you will be making your first tape......when???


Quote:
Originally Posted by guygee
I am sure the TTD folks would want all of the lineage they can get. But we are not always so fortunate. Does Peter Losin have all the lineage for all the shows listed on his "Miles Ahead" site? That's a definite no, I am sure, but I'll wager he spent 100's or 1000's of hours trading for multiple versions and sorting though his collection looking for best sources. If he can do it, with all of the good people here we should be able to do it too.
Using an example of a site laced with faulty lineage is only good if no one calls your bluff and looks at it. The only Miles tape I definitely, POSITIVELY know about on his list has a wrong source of origin...Caveat Emptor, baby...

AND I sincerely doubt that you are pushing for a rating system that simplistic....or maybe you are. Simple as ABC, right?



If you think that you will ever get a consensus of "ears" deciding on "the best sounding source", then I really do have some swamp land to sell you down here in southern Louisiana. You'll be lucky to get folks to follow the guidelines IF any are established...

Spectral analysis??? You can't get a consensus without a scorecard and you know it.

Or you can just go back to the tried and true system used by bootleggers and their fans; fabricating bogus lineages...

"Rinse, wash, repeat....." indeed...

Plus I am not the only 70's taper to resurface, I've heard from quite a few over on dime who lurk only. Most feel the same as I do. They're just not as vociferous as I.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guygee
I think you mentioned somewhere that you took a break for awhile, so probably Nth-gen versions of your shows circulated then without lineage, but fortunately you came back and now we can have the some of the masters. We are lucky that you have been so kind. But some tapers don't come back. The plan would be to work our way up in quality, even though we might not always know the lineage at least we can listen as a group and use spectral analysis tools to help decide what is "best circulating source".
No masters of any tapes previously used for bootlegs from me, I thought I explained that I wasn't interested in covering previously released shows.

"If the best you can get is an unverified generation, then everybody has an even playing field."

Besides we're all going to be waiting on your first taping effort to be released... That's the plan, as I see it.

OR
Maybe you can get a tape made before the "Old Capt'n" gets them torrents out that he posted about.
>>>Help wanted bringing torrents to TTD. (6/30/05)<<<
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/...ead.php?t=8840

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  #74  
Old 2005-08-12, 01:45 AM
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Re: Standards for Naming Torrent Folders

As mentioned earlier, TLH has really changed everything when it comes to .st5. xAct has also adapted this as their standard extension, so we're going ahead and getting .st5 sums for all SHN & APE sets as much as we can keep up with it. Since most ppl are seeding FLAC these days the .st5 is readily available via .ffp. So we're very close to the database becoming a reality, all we really need is a man of vision to guide us along (*hint hint*).

Thanks, freezer. I know all of those shows will be quality stuff.
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  #75  
Old 2005-08-12, 03:15 AM
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Re: Standards for Naming Torrent Folders

Quote:
Originally Posted by freezer
Besides we're all going to be waiting on your first taping effort to be released... That's the plan, as I see it.
freezer - I just clicked "buy it now" on one of those old mono radio shack cassette players on ebay, paypalled, and had it fedexed to me. I plan to hold the microphone up to my speakers, and tape "Lite Jazz in the Morning" on the local PBS, day after tomorrow.

The seed will quickly follow.

Last edited by guygee; 2005-08-12 at 03:24 AM.
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