The Traders' Den  

  The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble > Lossy or Lossless?
 

Notices

Lossy or Lossless? Please use this forum to post spectral and frequency analysis posts about shows you have your doubts about.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #31  
Old 2007-09-05, 09:53 PM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
189.30 GB/594.78 GB/3.14
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: Modern Day FMs

^lossy *sighs*

The Bruce Springsteen Special (FM 1987)
-this one I would blame the lack of frequency response on taping equipment and media (TDK D90). The carrier isn't even there, and it wasn't removed (I did the transfer)
Attached Images
File Type: gif springsteenspecial_1.gif
( 146.7 KB, 9 views)
 
File Type: gif springsteenspecial_2.gif
( 142.9 KB, 7 views)
 
File Type: gif springsteenspecial_3.gif
( 146.0 KB, 7 views)
 
__________________
Checksums Demystified | ask for help in Technobabble

thetradersden.org | ttd recommended free software/freeware webring
shntool tlh eac foobar2000 spek audacity cdwave vlc

Quote:
Originally posted by oxymoron
Here you are in a place of permanent madness, be careful!
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #32  
Old 2007-09-05, 10:06 PM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
189.30 GB/594.78 GB/3.14
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: Modern Day FMs

Billy Joel 1978-03-05 (from 2005 rebroadcast) ... lossy, a little different from the others
Attached Images
File Type: gif billyjoel1978-03-05.gif
( 147.3 KB, 53 views)
 
__________________
Checksums Demystified | ask for help in Technobabble

thetradersden.org | ttd recommended free software/freeware webring
shntool tlh eac foobar2000 spek audacity cdwave vlc

Quote:
Originally posted by oxymoron
Here you are in a place of permanent madness, be careful!
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #33  
Old 2007-09-05, 11:11 PM
GIGFY26 GIGFY26 is offline
2.23 TB/2.13 TB/0.95
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Re: Modern Day FMs

Damn I've learned a lot.
Thanks for this info. I was always more impressed by FM than I should have been. Audio has never been my specialty obviously, but I would guess you guys nailed it with the storage issue. I actually wouldn't be surprised if the library for a local station were stored on a shared server within the network and pulled across as needed. You could almost run a local station with a transmitter and a computer. It seems like accountants run everything now and "good enough" is a company motto.
Learned a ton. Thanks
__________________
Cheers!
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #34  
Old 2007-09-05, 11:29 PM
GIGFY26 GIGFY26 is offline
2.23 TB/2.13 TB/0.95
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Re: Modern Day FMs

What do you guys see in this one?

INXS 1997 04 24 FM show that was uploaded recently on Dime.

No harsh drop on the FA and no straight cutoff in the SA. Based on your comments five, can I assume the SA straight line at 16khz is the subcarrier? No audio above the cutoff but nothing abrupt in either analysis either. Could this be just analog compressed to fit the bandwidth?
__________________
Cheers!
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #35  
Old 2007-09-05, 11:40 PM
GIGFY26 GIGFY26 is offline
2.23 TB/2.13 TB/0.95
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Re: Modern Day FMs

I'll try the attachment again
Attached Images
File Type: jpg INXS Track 3.JPG
( 323.4 KB, 47 views)
 
__________________
Cheers!
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #36  
Old 2007-09-05, 11:42 PM
GIGFY26 GIGFY26 is offline
2.23 TB/2.13 TB/0.95
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Re: Modern Day FMs

Sorry about the size on that one. My first attachment here. I'll scale it down in the future.
__________________
Cheers!
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #37  
Old 2007-09-06, 11:21 AM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
189.30 GB/594.78 GB/3.14
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: Modern Day FMs

EAC isn't the best, really... see how the FA doesn't even show the drop plainly visible in the SA (you could try upping the fft size fwiw). also see here.

I'm pretty sure that's not the carrier at 16kHz, seems to me its some other noise. what's the lineage on that? can you post a short track to rapidshare? I'm wondering when the stations started switching over, and I haven't got anything from the late 90s on hand.

the cutoff visible in the SA looks normal for radio, of course.
__________________
Checksums Demystified | ask for help in Technobabble

thetradersden.org | ttd recommended free software/freeware webring
shntool tlh eac foobar2000 spek audacity cdwave vlc

Quote:
Originally posted by oxymoron
Here you are in a place of permanent madness, be careful!
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #38  
Old 2007-09-06, 02:35 PM
procella procella is offline
482.51 GB/478.50 GB/0.99
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Re: Modern Day FMs

I dl'ed one track of this INXS show and here are 2sec SA and FA. Guess it's lossy but better you explain that, five.
Wanted to up them sooner but I had a car crash. Nothing big and my car just got hit but a lot of trouble.
Attached Images
File Type: gif inxs fa.gif
( 10.6 KB, 9 views)
 
File Type: gif inxs sa2.gif
( 659.8 KB, 10 views)
 
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #39  
Old 2007-09-06, 02:45 PM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
189.30 GB/594.78 GB/3.14
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: Modern Day FMs

nah, I don't think that one's lossy from what I can see there... very strange that red stripe being where it is what city/station is that?
__________________
Checksums Demystified | ask for help in Technobabble

thetradersden.org | ttd recommended free software/freeware webring
shntool tlh eac foobar2000 spek audacity cdwave vlc

Quote:
Originally posted by oxymoron
Here you are in a place of permanent madness, be careful!
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #40  
Old 2007-09-06, 03:02 PM
procella procella is offline
482.51 GB/478.50 GB/0.99
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Re: Modern Day FMs

Torrent info:

Mayan Theatre,
Los Angeles, California - April 24, 1997.

Source: FM Broadcast.
Lineage: Traded cd > EAC > .Wav > Flac Frontend (Level 7).
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #41  
Old 2007-09-06, 04:16 PM
procella procella is offline
482.51 GB/478.50 GB/0.99
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Re: Modern Day FMs

What's this? The first 2 seconds of the song.
Attached Images
File Type: gif inxs first2sec.gif
( 659.1 KB, 35 views)
 

Last edited by procella; 2007-09-06 at 04:22 PM.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #42  
Old 2007-09-06, 04:27 PM
procella procella is offline
482.51 GB/478.50 GB/0.99
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Re: Modern Day FMs

What happened? Had no intention to put this pic into the thread. Thought I just uploaded like the others before.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #43  
Old 2007-09-06, 06:32 PM
procella procella is offline
482.51 GB/478.50 GB/0.99
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Re: Modern Day FMs

Thanks for all these examples, Five. Those from the 80s show the difference in the cutoff real nicely.

Is there a way to see the difference between a NICAM - and a mp3 cutoff?
The BBC still seems to keep some quality. But NICAM is lossy also. So good, but could still be better. I am not in Britain but I'm in Europe, in the center of it. Not sure how FM quality is here now but I will check some I downloaded and see if I find interesting ones. I know that Spanish stations lower the quality of live broadcasts sometimes. One I got cuts off at 8 Khz. But doesn't seem to be lossy. And it was announced as a low quality broadcast.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #44  
Old 2007-09-06, 07:37 PM
freezer's Avatar
freezer freezer is offline
TTD VIP
0.00 KB/0.00 KB/---
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: in your worst nightmare
Re: Modern Day FMs

The Hour 25 shows may not be the best example to use.

The sound was doctored in playback, because I was looking to get the optimum reproduction and on some of those shows, playback was in mono, by either using a mono only deck or by folding the stereo channels into a single monaural source. And in some instances, I ran the signal through a 25 year old equalizer. (And I have no longer have any idea which Hour 25 shows were transferred in mono or stereo.)

Especially since I couldn't discern any stereo seperation in the interview portions of those broadcasts, the many of the original stereo cassettes were transferred to cdr in mono.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #45  
Old 2007-09-07, 07:50 PM
GIGFY26 GIGFY26 is offline
2.23 TB/2.13 TB/0.95
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Re: Modern Day FMs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five
EAC isn't the best, really... see how the FA doesn't even show the drop plainly visible in the SA (you could try upping the fft size fwiw). also see here.

I'm pretty sure that's not the carrier at 16kHz, seems to me its some other noise. what's the lineage on that? can you post a short track to rapidshare? I'm wondering when the stations started switching over, and I haven't got anything from the late 90s on hand.

the cutoff visible in the SA looks normal for radio, of course.
Sorry I haven't checked in. I'll try to get it post on rapidshare soon. I've never used it and I'm getting a little slammed right now.

The INXS show was from Dime
Lineage from info file:
Mayan Theatre,
Los Angeles, California - April 24, 1997.

Source: FM Broadcast.
Lineage: Traded cd > EAC > .Wav > Flac Frontend (Level 7).

Thanks for helping me learn this stuff.
__________________
Cheers!
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
Reply

The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble > Lossy or Lossless?

Similar Threads
Thread Forum Replies Last Post
Buzzcocks ISO - All Set/Modern tour - SixGallonPie Seeding Talk - ISO Requests 0 2009-05-21 11:19 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forums


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:51 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - , TheTradersDen.org - All Rights Reserved - Hosted at QuickPacket