The Traders' Den  

  The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble
 

Notices

Technobabble Post your general Need for Help questions here.
Lossy or Lossless?
Moderators

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 2008-05-14, 03:34 PM
scratchie scratchie is offline
894.51 GB/3.48 TB/3.98
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Re-encoded digital video

I'm not sure if this is the right forum for this, but I hope you'll bear with me.

I'm wondering whether TTD should ban re-encoded digital video (at least for recent broadcasts). Take a look at this torrent:

http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/...ad.php?t=58350

Looks like a great show, right? But then take a look at this comment:

http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/...3&postcount=13

In other words, this was a digital broadcast that consisted of 2.5GB of data. The person who posted this version of it re-encoded it and bloated it up to 4.25GB of data while reducing the video quality (by re-encoding it). The audio has also been bloated up to LPCM when it certainly wasn't transmitted that way to begin with.

Now, I don't know about you, but I'd rather download a 2.5GB version of a show with better-quality video, than a 4.25GB version with poorer-quality video. For people who are on slower connections (e.g. DSL, which I was using until very recently), this is extremely important.

Now I'm not, in general, a "tech-spec queen". I like to download a show and enjoy it for the pleasure the music gives me.

But there's no denying that better-quality video will usually yield more enjoyment. And TTD is a torrent site that's dedicated to only torrenting the highest-quality versions of each show. You know, "Quality is not an option in the seeds here, it will be the standard."

So it seems to me, that it's time to make a new standard. If it's being transmitted digitally, you need to capture it digitally, without re-encoding it (i.e. DVB-S or DVB-T), or don't torrent it here. Obviously there would need to be some sort of cut-off date, with old transmissions grandfathered.

What do you all think?
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #2  
Old 2008-05-14, 05:30 PM
retired's Avatar
retired retired is offline
TTD Staff
0.00 KB/5.71 TB/Inf.
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: USA
Re: Re-encoded digital video

The video wasn't re-encoded. The audio was converted from AC3 to LPCM which accounts for the 'bloated' size. AC3 audio converted to LPCM, though accomplishes nothing since its lossy sourced, is not a problem as long as the video isn't re-encoded.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #3  
Old 2008-05-14, 08:52 PM
scratchie scratchie is offline
894.51 GB/3.48 TB/3.98
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Re: Re-encoded digital video

According to these links:

http://www.unbeatable.co.uk/product/.../22398906.html

http://www.epinions.com/Thomson_DTH8000_DVD

The only inputs on the Thomson DTH8000 are S-Video and composite. So that means the video was converted to analog by the satellite box and then converted back to digital by the DVD recorder.

Also, note that the difference in size between the two versions is 1.75GB. PCM audio is about 10MB per minute, so even if the original version had no audio track at all, adding 96 minutes of LPCM audio wouldn't have increased the size by more than a gig.

More to the point, even if this one particular video were not, in fact, re-encoded, there are certainly others out there which are. I'm no expert, but I can't imagine that consumer-grade standalone dvd recorders are set up to make perfect digital clones of broadcast material.

It seems to me that for a site that's committed to the highest possible quality, sooner or later you're going to want to ban such recordings (for new broadcasts), the same way you've banned new minidisc recordings.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #4  
Old 2008-05-14, 09:26 PM
vladsmythe's Avatar
vladsmythe vladsmythe is offline
TTD VIP
19.33 TB/8.15 TB/0.42
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Re: Re-encoded digital video

scratchie, as usual you make a compelling case. How do you do it?
vlad (itchie)
__________________
"Anyone that likes Bob Wills' music is bound to have some good in them."
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #5  
Old 2008-05-14, 09:33 PM
scratchie scratchie is offline
894.51 GB/3.48 TB/3.98
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Re: Re-encoded digital video

Quote:
Originally Posted by vladsmythe View Post
scratchie, as usual you make a compelling case. How do you do it?
Clean living.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #6  
Old 2008-05-15, 04:37 AM
pawel's Avatar
pawel pawel is offline
Lockout here
561.93 GB/871.08 GB/1.55
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Poland
Re: Re-encoded digital video

all standalone recorders re-encode video according to setting: XP, SP, LP etc. You can get not re-encoded video only via a PVR and DVB (S/T/C) PC card. Standalone re-encodes audio as well to AC3 or LPCM at higher quality setting.

Taking the example given by Scratchie: BR-alpha bitrate is no higher than 3500 kbps average, while from standalone it's over 8000 kbps.

Last edited by pawel; 2008-05-15 at 04:44 AM.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #7  
Old 2008-05-15, 07:48 AM
scratchie scratchie is offline
894.51 GB/3.48 TB/3.98
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Re: Re-encoded digital video

I don't think a solution that extreme would be necessary. I'm sure there's a lot of great stuff lurking people's shoeboxes on VHS that could be transferred via standalone and shared.

But for current digital transmissions, I don't think it would be too outrageous to require a pure-digital capture. I suspect that a lot of people with standalone burners don't realize that they're doing the equivalent of MP3 -> audio CD -> MP3, and would be happy to let someone with better equipment capture any given show (or upgrade their own equipment, if that's an option).
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #8  
Old 2008-05-15, 08:01 AM
COLOGNESHARK's Avatar
COLOGNESHARK COLOGNESHARK is offline
TTD VIP
119.32 GB/1.25 TB/10.76
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Cigarillo, TX
Re: Re-encoded digital video

that's right pawel
__________________
Artwork My Artwork SiteMy Artwork PreviewsMy Torrent Uploads 6pack - The Ultimate Stones Box


Donald Rumsfeld briefed the President this morning.
he told Bush that Three Brazilian soldiers were killed in Iraq.
To everyone's amazement, all of the color ran from Bush's face, then he collapsed onto his desk, head in hands, visibly shaken, almost whimpering. Finally, he composed himself and asked Rumsfeld: "Just exactly how many is a brazillion?"
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #9  
Old 2008-05-15, 08:12 AM
vladsmythe's Avatar
vladsmythe vladsmythe is offline
TTD VIP
19.33 TB/8.15 TB/0.42
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Re: Re-encoded digital video

Every video from the Graceful Duck Archive is captured with a standalone at the highest bitrate possible. Let's not let the desires of one advocate stop the flow of quality content that benefits those who enjoy it. The Graceful Duck Archive - "More than a collection...a way of life."
__________________
"Anyone that likes Bob Wills' music is bound to have some good in them."
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #10  
Old 2008-05-15, 08:16 AM
scratchie scratchie is offline
894.51 GB/3.48 TB/3.98
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Re: Re-encoded digital video

Quote:
Originally Posted by vladsmythe View Post
Every video from the Graceful Duck Archive is captured with a standalone at the highest bitrate possible. Let's not let the desires of one advocate stop the flow of quality content that benefits those who enjoy it. The Graceful Duck Archive - "More than a collection...a way of life."
Yeah, exactly. I don't think it makes any sense to ban standalones altogether, just for current digitally-broadcast content.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #11  
Old 2008-05-15, 08:21 AM
vladsmythe's Avatar
vladsmythe vladsmythe is offline
TTD VIP
19.33 TB/8.15 TB/0.42
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Re: Re-encoded digital video

The title (and premise) of this thread is "Re-encoded digital video", not "Digitized historical analogue beta video".
__________________
"Anyone that likes Bob Wills' music is bound to have some good in them."
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #12  
Old 2008-05-15, 11:09 AM
vladsmythe's Avatar
vladsmythe vladsmythe is offline
TTD VIP
19.33 TB/8.15 TB/0.42
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Re: Re-encoded digital video

I'm not going to address this any further until you clean up your language and proceed in a civil manner suited to The Traders Den community.
__________________
"Anyone that likes Bob Wills' music is bound to have some good in them."
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #13  
Old 2008-05-15, 11:25 AM
direwolf-pgh's Avatar
direwolf-pgh direwolf-pgh is offline
On the Beach
666.18 GB/1.29 TB/1.99
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: down in the basement
Re: Re-encoded digital video

tell him how it is vlad. standalone recorders rock
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #14  
Old 2008-05-15, 11:27 AM
vladsmythe's Avatar
vladsmythe vladsmythe is offline
TTD VIP
19.33 TB/8.15 TB/0.42
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Re: Re-encoded digital video

Frankly, a mod using that type of language, I find shocking and reprehensible.
__________________
"Anyone that likes Bob Wills' music is bound to have some good in them."
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #15  
Old 2008-05-15, 11:28 AM
direwolf-pgh's Avatar
direwolf-pgh direwolf-pgh is offline
On the Beach
666.18 GB/1.29 TB/1.99
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: down in the basement
Re: Re-encoded digital video

it is indeed a sad day in VBT. where is the love for the video. whats become of the baby
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
Reply

The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble

Similar Threads
Thread Forum Replies Last Post
Can I post very high bitrate H.264-encoded video? - VonOben Technobabble 4 2007-11-03 06:34 PM
Digital Video Cameras? - fowler Technobabble 5 2006-02-26 01:32 PM
JVC GR-DX77 Digital Video Camera - Delgado69 Technobabble 1 2006-02-20 01:39 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forums


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:20 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - , TheTradersDen.org - All Rights Reserved - Hosted at QuickPacket