What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

[bot]

Originally Posted by Sebastian

A few individuals chose to fuck it up for everybody.

you love your recordings too much. They are ok and I enjoyed it.
you not seeding is not the big deal you think it is.

it needed to be said. I dont like your "Im going to punish you" attitude.
its very silly.

[Sebastian]

Originally Posted by bot

you not seeding is not the big deal you think it is.

You're absolutely right. But from many e-mails I've received within the last 24 hours, I know most respectable tapers in the Pumpkins community are with me on this subject.

And this is not about "punishing" somebody. I just don't see me go through the hassle of seeding a show just to be disrespected by the very people I offer a service to.

[bot]

Originally Posted by Sebastian

You're absolutely right. But from many e-mails I've received within the last 24 hours, I know most respectable tapers in the Pumpkins community are with me on this subject.

And this is not about "punishing" somebody. I just don't see me go through the hassle of seeding a show just to be disrespected by the very people I offer a service to.

You kept saying you are going to punish people. You must be very powerful.

I thought I saw 8 or 9 pages of Thank You for each of your seeds.
You are well respected. Dont be angry. Music is Fun !

Originally Posted by bodhisattva

And if you really really think that people sharing music, anywhere, is hurting people, or the world or the scene even, (especially because some pompous person made a comment in a text file) than you need to do more than just hang out in the trading community.

That's a straw man argument. Nobody is against music sharing, but when traders misappropriate funds and exchange music or money, you should expect there to be resistance.

[freezer]

Originally Posted by bodhisattva

exactly. we'll respect those who give us respect.

make a source text file about us, saying we suck, and likely you'll be stirring up trouble.

Threats now, huh?

From lies to threats .... what next?

You want respect....then you NEED to earn it.

Today, here, you sure in hell haven't.

Originally Posted by bodhisattva

its easy to see where to point the finger, for starting all of this and its certainly not me or my site. I am only hearing dealing with the fallout from a shitbomb people decided to drop on the scene.

The finger is pointed squarely at you and zomb...because YOU got caught lying while representing your site and community.....

When are you going to be able to understand that? You indeed did throw oil on the fire while claiming to be innocent in full view of your lies.

Wake up and smell the coffee.... if you had any integrity, you wouldn't be in this discussion at all.

You caused the shitstorm by diving in with your mouth wide open.

You don't like the shitstorm, then honor your word.

You wanna change policy, don't do it retroactively.

It only shows you to be exactly the liar you claim you're not.

[direwolf-pgh]

Originally Posted by bot

I thought I saw 8 or 9 pages of Thank You for each of your seeds.
You are well respected. Dont be angry. Music is Fun !

I saw this as well and yes..thank you for seeding - it is fun.

[bot]

dont be a kiss ass Dire. It doesnt suit you

[The Govner]

Well......I glad as fuck that I don't give a shit about The Smashing Pumpkins who is apparently getting ready to make a HUGE cash grab from it's fan base!

That being said.......I do take exception to this line of thought

Originally Posted by bodhisattva

never changed your mind about something that has upset you?

I felt one way, later I felt another as I evaluated the situation closer.

Initially, I was quite dejected by a taper using such a great show to spread blind hatred.

They weren't making requests, they were dogging a community for no reason.

That was no friendly, and telling anonmyous people where they can share their data is not a rational request. A website should not have to honor such a request. Websites that do bend to inane requests like this do so because they choose to, not because they have to.

Tapers are not gods. For the most part tapers are great people, and I have known and helped many since the days of my youth following the Grateful Dead in the late 80's and early 90's. But tapers are not gods, and for a taper to get a complex like this it is wrong and it goes against the spirit of music and the spirit of sharing.

If others want to share music, why stop them? Why tell them you can't share with these people, they suck. makes no sense, and requests by releasers such as this are wrong and I still cannot logically understand why scenes based on sharing and spreading music have issues with people sharing music. Seems elitest to me, and its a damn shame that some groups feel they are so much better than others.

I don't think I am anything special, and for the most part every torrent site out there serves its purpose, I respect sites, their owners, and the people who make them happen.

As far as people who disrespect me for no apparent reason, I have no respect for them or their wishes.

As a taper who has spent a shitload of my own money over the years to attend and tape the shows I am somewhat insulted by your attitude that my hard work should be shared with no disregard to what my personal wishes may be for the dristribution of my master recordings! There is a reason why some of my shows that is over 20 years old are just now seeing the light of day and it was by being screwed over by bad traders or by having my recordings altered from the original form that it was recorded in! At least by offering them up here I can make sure that they are as pure as the master tape is!
Giving money to a torrent hosting site? I may sound cheap when I say I won't give a penny because I am giving up my master recordings to anybody that wants them with very little strings attached....and nobody as ever offered to "buy my recording equipment" or any other BS scam to try and pull out a few more shows! Just think how shoddy those recordings will sound....or even if they will bother to tape any more after they have had a bad sounding master recording or they get busted at the door? I wish I had a nickle for every time I wanted to call it a day!

And for saying that tapers think of themselves as "Gods".......you sure are acting like you are the "Saviour" for those who only want to take but not give back! Pot meet kettle.....

Sorry if I got off on a rant....but that post irritated the shit out of me!

Originally Posted by bodhisattva

2. we don't sell credits. we do not sell anything. there are no buy now buttons and at no point is any sale implied. we accept donations. if the site wants, it will give people a free gift of bytes on their upload stats. we reserve the right not to do this. do people usually receive the bonus, yes. I also give bytes (or remove bytes from peoples download stats) to people all of the time, who have not donated. we don't ban people who have a bad ratio, people can always connect and share on our tracker. but the bonus bytes do help people have a positive ratio which seems to be a reflection of their self image. but the credits are not neccessary to share music on our website.

It doesn't get any more implicit than this:

ZOMB Torrents is funded by the kind members of this community. All funding goes towards the monthly server bills, bandwidth, extra hardware, upkeep, legal representation, and any other bills that the ZOMB site may encounter. Members who partake receive a gold star and it will show next to the name of all donors on many of the sites pages. As a sign of our appreciation for your generosity we reward all donors a free gift, depending on how much is sent. To be sure you are eligible to receive the full line of potential gifts we have to give make sure you give your shipping address to us when making the donation on the PayPal site.This will allow us to send the gift to your door when applicable. We have stickers, t-shirts, and some other surprises.

Thank You,
ZOMB Torrents Staff.

(Source: Zomb, Retrieved May 26, 2006)

[bodhisattva]

Originally Posted by Sebastian

Show me that text file. It was never part of the torrent.

Yeah, for most sane people, that's quite obvious

You should really listen to the new songs more. They could help burn the lies off your soul...

this will be my last post on the matter, as everything else is fluff from people trying to continue some battle.

I don't have your source. i have shared it with others, (right now around 2500 people total between AUD1 and AUD2) i did seee it tagged at the top of your post here, and I assumed it was in your source as well, but like I said, I had not viewed it, so I am wrong in saying it was in your source text. Your message of hate seemed to initially only be posted here.

As for lies and my soul.. you haven't the faintest idea whats going on with my soul, and i'm not sure you need to worry about that. we are all on our path, where you go with your life isn't my concern.

And it really was great of you to release your show, but if you planned on posting more negativity about other pumpkins fans when you release shows than maybe the scene is better off without your sources.

If other tapers want to chime in with you, thats their perogative. They must realize though that they are allowing your personal issues with one or two people control their relationship with the fans, which is low. You had issues with mixwell and JellyBelly, plain and simple. You can tell them its about people making money off your source, issues that seriously have no merit as no one, at least on our site, has gained a dime due to your source being there.

People who have connected to your torrent only see a ratio increase, as have not been counting download bytes. If you think it through logically you would realize that if it was a funding issue, we are giving it away for free, and allowing people to better their ratio with no negative effects. How can we be making money off of that if we are interested in supposedly selling credits? Do you understand?

Also, with the Direct Downloads I have donated the usage of three servers that I had sitting idle, in the name of zomb torrents. These servers have sent out nearly 2500 GB since the shows went on them. I had bandwidth to use on them, timing was right, and I felt obligated to share the music with anyone who wanted to download it.

Much of that devotion, to give this music to the fans comes from my years as an administrator on the official smashing pumpkins site and the official zwan site. I, along with many of you, had been waiting for this for years. Such a joyous occasion, and at least there were some facets that I could share this music with people without having to be made to feel like some leper for bringing people FREE LIVE MUSIC.

Those who are interested can see the post in the news section on the official smashing pumpkins site. http://smashingpumpkins.com/membernews_568

Sebastian, if you would like to continue to converse you can PM me here, possibly even email. I am not about continuing a grudge or perpetuating conflict. I prefer to resolve issues and I believe as time passes we will all be able to view the situation better.

I don't believe we were right or wrong, and I don't think you were really totally righteous or wrong either. It just happened, at least people got the music and at least one of the best bands to ever exist is touring again and the old songs live again.

And as stated, I'm not bothering with the other antagonizers here. Its over, there is no need to keep this going. I only hope for understanding and tolerance between all parties involved here. We're all in in it for the music, regardless how we all feel about each other.

[freezer]

Originally Posted by The Govner

Well......I glad as fuck that I don't give a shit about The Smashing Pumpkins who is apparently getting ready to make a HUGE cash grab from it's fan base!

That being said.......I do take exception to this line of thought

As a taper who has spent a shitload of my own money over the years to attend and tape the shows I am somewhat insulted by your attitude that my hard work should be shared with no disregard to what my personal wishes may be for the dristribution of my master recordings! There is a reason why some of my shows that is over 20 years old are just now seeing the light of day and it was by being screwed over by bad traders or by having my recordings altered from the original form that it was recorded in! At least by offering them up here I can make sure that they are as pure as the master tape is!
Giving money to a torrent hosting site? I may sound cheap when I say I won't give a penny because I am giving up my master recordings to anybody that wants them with very little strings attached....and nobody as ever offered to "buy my recording equipment" or any other BS scam to try and pull out a few more shows! Just think how shoddy those recordings will sound....or even if they will bother to tape any more after they have had a bad sounding master recording or they get busted at the door? I wish I had a nickle for every time I wanted to call it a day!

And for saying that tapers think of themselves as "Gods".......you sure are acting like you are the "Saviour" for those who only want to take but not give back! Pot meet kettle.....

Sorry if I got off on a rant....but that post irritated the shit out of me!

^^^ Agreed, most heartily.......been there and done that.....


And none of this ever needed to take place if the wishes of the taper weren't disregarded from nothing more than pure spite on the part of zomb and its owners and admins.


Surely somebody connected to zomb objected to putting that show up out of spite.

If not, that also speaks volumes negatively about that tracker and community.

[bodhisattva]

Originally Posted by zombfuckingsucks

ZOMB Torrents is funded by the kind members of this community. All funding goes towards the monthly server bills, bandwidth, extra hardware, upkeep, legal representation, and any other bills that the ZOMB site may encounter. Members who partake receive a gold star and it will show next to the name of all donors on many of the sites pages. As a sign of our appreciation for your generosity we reward all donors a free gift, depending on how much is sent. To be sure you are eligible to receive the full line of potential gifts we have to give make sure you give your shipping address to us when making the donation on the PayPal site.This will allow us to send the gift to your door when applicable. We have stickers, t-shirts, and some other surprises.

Thank You,
ZOMB Torrents Staff.
(Source: Zomb, Retrieved May 26, 2006)

don't forget the part at the bottom:

All members are entitled to free gifts and zomb gear. If you would like to receive free gifts from ZOMB such as stickers or t-shirts, please contact us with your name and address.

later ya'll!

[The Govner]

Originally Posted by freezer

^^^ Agreed, most heartily.......been there and done that.....


And none of this ever needed to take place if the wishes of the taper weren't disregarded from nothing more than pure spite on the part of zomb and its owners and admins.


Surely somebody connected to zomb objected to putting that show up out of spite.

If not, that also speaks volumes negatively about that tracker and community.

I remember the "Freezer's Revenge" thread and I thought that the Zeppelin traders was a pack of assholes.....apparently the more things change the more things stay the same.......only the names are changed because "The Song Remains the Same!"

[gtbrown77]

Is it just me, or has this whole thing just gotten utterly ridiculous? I mean, it's like two kids in the sandbox who don't like each other fighting and arguing because neither one of them is big enough to either (A)say "I was wrong. I'm sorry" or (B) just stop talking to each other and let the whole thing die a quick death; like the guy who says the last thing is the one who wins.

Quite frankly, with all of this arguing and such, I think nobody wins. Tapers are holding back shows (which quite frankly is their right, since they own the master recording) and people are bickering back and forth, sometimes across multiple sites. And then, people who hear about this "great community" (or that "great community") come here (or go there) and see all of this foolishness and think to themselves "some 'great community' this is!"

Bottom line is that we're all human, and we don't have to like each other. But we should at least show respect to everybody, even if we don't agree with them. I agree with freezer

You want respect....then you NEED to earn it.

But when you feel disrespected by somebody else, isn't it pretty natural to come back at them slinging mud? I'm not saying it's right, but don't we all do that - at least from time to time? And to make matters worse, we all feel like it's our place to jump into the argument (yes, I realize I'm pretty much doing that here, but I am trying to stay neutral). This is definitely something that should have been kept private, but I also realize that is extremely tough to do when the comments (on both sides) are made in public places.

I have one question (each) for the two biggest players in this whole thing, then I'll go away (for the time being)

Sebastian: Did you really think that when you released this recording to the public that you could really keep it off of any particular site or stop it from being re-encoded to mp3 (which I understand has happened and is now circulating)?

Bodhisattva: You said you felt very strongly about not having this recording up on your site, but after talking to others there, you changed your mind. Why not stick to the courage of your convictions and let the fans there seek the recording out elsewhere?

[bodhisattva]

Originally Posted by gtbrown77

Is it just me, or has this whole thing just gotten utterly ridiculous? I mean, it's like two kids in the sandbox who don't like each other fighting and arguing because neither one of them is big enough to either (A)say "I was wrong. I'm sorry" or (B) just stop talking to each other and let the whole thing die a quick death; like the guy who says the last thing is the one who wins.

Quite frankly, with all of this arguing and such, I think nobody wins. Tapers are holding back shows (which quite frankly is their right, since they own the master recording) and people are bickering back and forth, sometimes across multiple sites. And then, people who hear about this "great community" (or that "great community") come here (or go there) and see all of this foolishness and think to themselves "some 'great community' this is!"

Bottom line is that we're all human, and we don't have to like each other. But we should at least show respect to everybody, even if we don't agree with them. I agree with freezer



But when you feel disrespected by somebody else, isn't it pretty natural to come back at them slinging mud? I'm not saying it's right, but don't we all do that - at least from time to time? And to make matters worse, we all feel like it's our place to jump into the argument (yes, I realize I'm pretty much doing that here, but I am trying to stay neutral). This is definitely something that should have been kept private, but I also realize that is extremely tough to do when the comments (on both sides) are made in public places.

I have one question (each) for the two biggest players in this whole thing, then I'll go away (for the time being)

Sebastian: Did you really think that when you released this recording to the public that you could really keep it off of any particular site or stop it from being re-encoded to mp3 (which I understand has happened and is now circulating)?

Bodhisattva: You said you felt very strongly about not having this recording up on your site, but after talking to others there, you changed your mind. Why not stick to the courage of your convictions and let the fans there seek the recording out elsewhere?

since you are being civil, i'll respond to you, as I'm all up for people feeling resolution through all of this.

if you read above, I did admint I was wrong, at least about the message being in the source text. I've only dealt with his source on multiple servers, haven't listened to all but one song to make sure the files were valid on the server, and I never read the actual source. I was wrong in saying his message about ZOMB was there, it was just in the post here.

as far as why I changed my mind. what I posted was based on my feelings alone. I am not a dictator of the site. We have more staff than I can name in a minute, and after receiving input from staff, doing my own re-evaluation of the circumstances, I realized it was silly to try to stop the source from showing up. People were going to post it.

I have respect for tapers. For the most part requests people have within sources as far as formats, etc are very reasonable. After some discussion we came to realize that it is not reasonable nor fathomable for a taper or editor who releases a show to try to control where that show goes, and its not within our scope to try to police every source text to make sure its allowed to be on a specific site.

To be honest, being that there was no message not to post it on ZOMB within his source text, people could have shared this on DC++ or directly and upped to ZOMB, as the source was not telling anyone to do it, just the post here.

So, the problem seems to reside on this site, not our site.

Also the disrepect from the start did not help the situation and only started the snowball on its way. I was not even aware of issues between Sebastian and members of my staff. People have personal grudges, and its no reason, at least in my opinion to make it play out against entire communities.

Hopefully this is the last post I need to make on this matter. If I need to follow up with a response or two for clarification, I will.

Alot of people want to paint me as the big bad. I have helped distributed around 2500 copies of the show. Does this make me great, no? Should this at least show our desire to share the love of the music, yes!