The Traders' Den  

  The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble > Lossy or Lossless?
 

Notices

Lossy or Lossless? Please use this forum to post spectral and frequency analysis posts about shows you have your doubts about.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 2006-05-16, 11:18 AM
corsair corsair is offline
10.83 GB/39.41 GB/3.64
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
DAT32 or Mp3?

I got this Simple Minds show from a trade...
Lineage is ECM 717 > D8...

Does the spectral looks lossy, or is the freq cut off due to mic freq limiaton or 32khz DAT?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg sm.jpg
( 173.3 KB, 93 views)
 
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #2  
Old 2006-05-16, 01:48 PM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
189.30 GB/594.78 GB/3.14
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: DAT32 or Mp3?

from what I can see looks like 32kHz DAT

its not the mic because there would be at least noise up to the top

mp3 would show some artifacts at this zoom (other than just the cutoff)

could you post another sa that's zoomed out a little to show how even the cutoff at the top is?
__________________
Checksums Demystified | ask for help in Technobabble

thetradersden.org | ttd recommended free software/freeware webring
shntool tlh eac foobar2000 spek audacity cdwave vlc

Quote:
Originally posted by oxymoron
Here you are in a place of permanent madness, be careful!
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #3  
Old 2006-05-16, 03:18 PM
mixwell mixwell is offline
21.71 GB/22.79 GB/1.05
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Re: DAT32 or Mp3?

Yes, that'd be good to see. A 32k DAT will cutoff very abruptly at 16k, there would be nothing at all above it.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #4  
Old 2006-05-16, 07:08 PM
corsair corsair is offline
10.83 GB/39.41 GB/3.64
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Re: DAT32 or Mp3?

A zoomed capture of the top.

Thanks fellas!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg sm-zoom.jpg
( 151.1 KB, 80 views)
 
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #5  
Old 2006-05-16, 08:16 PM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
189.30 GB/594.78 GB/3.14
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: DAT32 or Mp3?

you're welcome...

but I meant please zoom out to 2 minutes view or something like that to see the spectral peaks. 32kHz DAT will have a bit more of an uneven "haircut".

I'm pretty positive this is 32kHz DAT anyways.
__________________
Checksums Demystified | ask for help in Technobabble

thetradersden.org | ttd recommended free software/freeware webring
shntool tlh eac foobar2000 spek audacity cdwave vlc

Quote:
Originally posted by oxymoron
Here you are in a place of permanent madness, be careful!
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #6  
Old 2006-05-17, 12:01 AM
mixwell mixwell is offline
21.71 GB/22.79 GB/1.05
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Re: DAT32 or Mp3?

I don't know, in that zoom there is clearly shading above 16, more than just noise. That leads me to believe it's lossy, or possibly MD.
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #7  
Old 2006-05-17, 12:30 AM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
189.30 GB/594.78 GB/3.14
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: DAT32 or Mp3?

looks a little like atrac3 66kbps (Lp4) but that would show more artifacts in the lower freqencies for sure.

I can see why you'd say that but positively not MD imo.
__________________
Checksums Demystified | ask for help in Technobabble

thetradersden.org | ttd recommended free software/freeware webring
shntool tlh eac foobar2000 spek audacity cdwave vlc

Quote:
Originally posted by oxymoron
Here you are in a place of permanent madness, be careful!
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #8  
Old 2006-05-17, 10:26 AM
mixwell mixwell is offline
21.71 GB/22.79 GB/1.05
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Re: DAT32 or Mp3?

I'm used to looking at Sound Forge's scopes and all these other ones really tweak my eyes sometimes, so forgive me if I'm seeing what's "not really there".

A 32K DAT is essentially 16K stereo sampling. This means anything above 16K (like 16.0001) is impossible. There is no ability for the realm to understand, record or decode anything beyond 16K on each channel, it's digital precision at it's best (or worst, if you like).

Now that somehow finds it's way to being upsampled to a 16-44 CD quality file, which we then are possibly viewing here. What would we see? In the conversion and depending on lots of conversion factors (filters, anti-alias, etc), noise can occur and spread into the remaining 16k to 22.05k area. But that noise would never (OK, let's say it's highly unlikely) exceed the -90db noise floor of digital.

So an FA showing what's happening at those freq's would help. If there is 17k material reaching beyond -90db, then it's most defintinely not a 32K source.

Sorry for the rambling...
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #9  
Old 2006-05-17, 10:55 AM
corsair corsair is offline
10.83 GB/39.41 GB/3.64
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Re: DAT32 or Mp3?

Ok dudes...

I've included 2 more shots..

One is a SA - zoomed out to 2 mins for Five
Another is a FA....

Thanks folks!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg sm-2minzoom.jpg
( 106.4 KB, 14 views)
 
File Type: jpg sm-fa.jpg
( 23.1 KB, 17 views)
 
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #10  
Old 2006-05-17, 11:17 AM
corsair corsair is offline
10.83 GB/39.41 GB/3.64
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Re: DAT32 or Mp3?

Btw..

I got in another show...
This has got to be lossy right from the spectral...
Looks MD to me...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2ndshow.jpg
( 107.2 KB, 66 views)
 
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #11  
Old 2006-05-17, 01:53 PM
Five's Avatar
Five Five is offline
189.30 GB/594.78 GB/3.14
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Canada
Re: DAT32 or Mp3?

the 1st one I still believe to be 32kHz DAT

this new one isn't md... doesn't match with any documented codec, not even close.
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/...ead.php?t=8003

looks like mp3, don't trade that. seek thee a better source.
__________________
Checksums Demystified | ask for help in Technobabble

thetradersden.org | ttd recommended free software/freeware webring
shntool tlh eac foobar2000 spek audacity cdwave vlc

Quote:
Originally posted by oxymoron
Here you are in a place of permanent madness, be careful!
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
  #12  
Old 2006-05-17, 06:56 PM
corsair corsair is offline
10.83 GB/39.41 GB/3.64
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Re: DAT32 or Mp3?

Well, some douchebag insisted to me it was two shows
done with DAT ECM 717 > D8... wanker...
Reply With Quote Reply with Nested Quotes
Reply

The Traders' Den > Where we go to learn ..... > Technobabble > Lossy or Lossless?


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forums


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:35 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - , TheTradersDen.org - All Rights Reserved - Hosted at QuickPacket