Standards for Naming Torrent Folders

[ssamadhi97]

Sooo, how did a thread about a couple sensible torrent / folder naming suggestions into full-blown internet drama?


I dunno what's the big deal about instating some naming conventions. I guess people would be free to love them or leave them, but at least something would be there for those who are looking for guidelines to follow or new ideas for organizing their collection. And it's not like they'd take much time to implement on the seeder's end, compared to the effort required for compiling the files, show notes, etc.

[guygee]

Originally Posted by freezer

guygee....

I speak from a perspective of history in the collector's world, you speak like a computer programmer.........

What motivates you to want collectors to follow your 'suggestions', hmmm????
[...]

You haven't looked at my list because you weren't invited to do so.

Who told you you deserve to have that right? I haven't seen your list, but I haven't felt the need to do that either. What do you wanna bet that you have shows I recorded on your list? Maybe with bogus lineage?

"My life's work?" again I say to you, "......... and the horse you rode in on....."

To try to compartmentalize someone who has lived longer than you and done more for YOUR hobby than you are even willing to do smacks of immaturity on you part.

Without computer programmers you tapers would still be trading in your smug little elite trading circles, hoarding and feeding the booters who would still be charging the rest of us $40/show for their degraded crap.

Do you even know who RMS is? Vinton Cerf? Bram Cohen?

Your ability to reach so many people and touch them with your work comes from riding on the backs of these guys, and you don't even know it. That smacks of ignorance on your part.

And these guys did far more for music lovers and show collectors around the world then any group of tapers, even a superstar taper from the '70's.

[freezer]

Originally Posted by guygee

Without computer programmers you tapers would still be trading in your smug little elite trading circles, hoarding and feeding the booters who would be charging still be charging the rest of us $40/show for their degraded crap.

Do you even know who RMS is? Vinton Cerf? Bram Cohen?

Your ability to reach so many people and touch them with your work comes from riding on the backs of these guys, and you don't even know it. That smacks of ignorance on your part.

And these guys did far more for music lovers and show collectors around the world then any group of tapers, even a superstar taper from the '70's.

Guy,

Let me say this as clearly as I can so you understand in your first reading:

Fuck Bram Cohen.

And you sure as hell ain't in the same league with Bram, are you? Unless it's in your own mind.

and guygee, to you I say once more, "......and the horse you rode in on........"

Quit calling me "a superstar taper" before I refer to you as the f*cking parasite and leech you are making yourself out to be. I really don't want to do that, y'know........

You somehow think the world owes you something. I sure as hell don't, not even the wind from my ass to cool your soup.

You stick to your end of the hobby and I'll do likewise. (But I notice you did not reply to my assertion that your list includes recordings I made. I know I have none that YOU recorded.)

So stop flogging that dead horse about what RMS and Cerf and Bram did. They ain't you. Get off of their coattails.

Originally Posted by guygee

And these guys did far more for music lovers and show collectors around the world then any group of tapers, even a superstar taper from the '70's.

No they did more for bootleggers then anyone since the Rubber Dubber.

[ssamadhi97]

guygee, I have one good piece of messageboard advice for you..

                                   __________________
                          /|  /|  |                  |
                          ||__||  |      Please do   |
                         /   O O\__         NOT      |
                        /          \     feed the    |
                       /      \     \     troll      |
                      /   _    \     \ ______________|
                     /    |\____\     \     ||
                    /     | | | |\____/     ||
                   /       \|_|_|/   \    __||
                  /  /  \            |____| ||
                 /   |   | /|        |      --|
                 |   |   |//         |____  --|
          * _    |  |_|_|_|          |     \-/
       *-- _--\ _ \     //           |
         /  _     \\ _ //   |        /
       *  /   \_ /- | -     |       |
         *      ___ c_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c____________

And the drama queens could give other people a chance to voice their opinion now, thankyouverymuch.

[freezer]

Originally Posted by ssamadhi97

guygee, I have one good piece of messageboard advice for you..

                                   __________________
                          /|  /|  |                  |
                          ||__||  |      Please do   |
                         /   O O\__         NOT      |
                        /          \     feed the    |
                       /      \     \     troll      |
                      /   _    \     \ ______________|
                     /    |\____\     \     ||
                    /     | | | |\____/     ||
                   /       \|_|_|/   \    __||
                  /  /  \            |____| ||
                 /   |   | /|        |      --|
                 |   |   |//         |____  --|
          * _    |  |_|_|_|          |     \-/
       *-- _--\ _ \     //           |
         /  _     \\ _ //   |        /
       *  /   \_ /- | -     |       |
         *      ___ c_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c____________

And the drama queens could give other people a chance to voice their opinion now, thankyouverymuch, right, Mr.Heubeck?

Ninja, you changed the parrot to look just like Marc.

(and a swell likeness it is)

Now, about those shows with the bogus lineage....you were saying???

[guygee]

Freezer - First, I apologize for the "superstar" sarcasm. I guess somehow I let your ascerbic style and off-color humor push some of my buttons; I shouldn't let that happen. Interspersed with all of your humor are some very good points, I will concentrate on those.

But now you are poking fun at ssamadhi97? This is a guy who I have personally witnessed spotting and outing at least 50 lossy torrents, and I am sure there were others. Hell, he can even usually tell the codec that was used. What is the purpose of this?

[BoldCaptain]

Talk, it’s only talk
Arguments, agreements, advice, answers,
Articulate announcements
It’s only talk

Talk, it’s only talk
Babble, burble, banter, bicker bicker bicker
Brouhaha, boulderdash, ballyhoo
It’s only talk
Back talk

Talk talk talk, it’s only talk
Comments, cliches, commentary, controversy
Chatter, chit-chat, chit-chat, chit-chat,
Conversation, contradiction, criticism
It’s only talk
Cheap talk

Talk, talk, it’s only talk
Debates, discussions
These are words with a d this time
Dialogue, dualogue, diatribe,
Dissention, declamation
Double talk, double talk

Talk, talk, it’s all talk
Too much talk
Small talk
Talk that trash
Expressions, editorials, expugnations, exclamations, enfadulations
It’s all talk
Elephant talk, elephant talk, elephant talk

[guygee]

I agree action is better than talk, but I learned a few things here, like just how many people here are really interested in preserving music, about some prominent personalities on this site, about the world from the taper's perspective, about what kind of verbal abuse is allowed here, about remembering to "count to 60 before hitting submit", and about when to stop talking. For me, this thread is dead, it is totally polluted. If anyone is still interested in the topic, please start a new thread or PM me. Otherwise I'll assume I just wasted a whole lot of time on "Talk".

[freezer]

Originally Posted by guygee

Freezer - First, I apologize for the "superstar" sarcasm. I guess somehow I let your ascerbic style and off-color humor push some of my buttons; I shouldn't let that happen. Interspersed with all of your humor are some very good points, I will concentrate on those.

But now you are poking fun at ssamadhi97? This is a guy who I have personally witnessed spotting and outing at least 50 lossy torrents, and I am sure there were others. Hell, he can even usually tell the codec that was used. What is the purpose of this?

Your friend, your poor old buddy Mr. ssamadhi97 decided to play with the big boys and dive in head first without contributing anything to the discussion or topic, but rather comment in what came across as an attack.

So, in that same spirit, and in a like and similar manner, he got some on his shirt also.

If he was man enough to throw mud, then he got splattered also.

If he's not man enough, then I surmise you do have a right to hold his hand and complain. Gee, guy, are you substituting as his mother?


And I see that Ol' Mr. b. capt'n decided to pipe up and toot on his bosun's whistle. Damn, and I thought he'd been self-promoted at least to the rank of Major Pain.

And here some lyrics for the Major, with tongue planted firmly in cheek....

I got me a complication
And it's an only child
Concernin' my reputation
As something more than wild
I know it serves me right
But I can't sleep at night
Have to hide my face
Or go some other play-ay-ay-ay-ay-ace

I won't cry out for justice
Admit that I was wrong
I'll stay in hibernation
'Til the talk subsides to gone
My social life's a dud
My name is really mud
I'm up to here in lies
Guess I'm down to size
To size

Can't seem to talk about
The things that bother me
Seems to be
What everybody has
Against me
Oh, oh, all right

Here's the situation
And how it really stands
I'm out of circulation
I've all but washed my hands
My social life's a dud
My name is really mud
I'm up to here in lies
Guess I'm down to size
To size

Talk Talk Talk Talk Talk Talk Talk Talk

(better lyrics, don't really care for Mr. Fripp's frippery )

[range_hood]

A reliable database including the fingerprints could help to keep lineages accurate.

Like db.etree.org or
bootlegarchive.com

but I think there have to be strict rules like here on ttd on adding new sources.

Then a database-id could be included in the folder-names.

[U2Lynne]

Hey Guygee, I am interested in your talk about the database. I also sent Stephen a link to your post asking him to take a look.

Sorry this thread got so out of hand. I actually censored another post over in the VBT forum just recently and it's turned into a total mess in The Lounge. *Normally* something like this doesn't happen in Technobabble. I think perhaps I should have warned you a bit when I first saw freezer was posting over here.... if you take a look at his past posts, you'll see what I mean. Sometimes he makes some good points, but he has an 'interesting' way of making them.

[guygee]

Never say never. Thanks for the concise on-topic response, range-hood.

I agree, but my idea is just a little different. If the seed is straight from the taper, then you are probably right, not much need to add a new source. But many master tapes will never circulate. So in that case, maybe *loosen* the rules a bit, but most importantly, add a "comparison comments" section for each show. That way, we can compare sources and find the "best surviving source". It may not always be a clear-cut choice; for example, the recent release of the 2nd Gen reel source for the Doors Matrix Tapes is probably "Best Surviving Source". The "Complete Matrix Tapes" (Kiss the Stone release) is probably just as close to the source, but some NR applied. The 2nd gen reel version has some short drop-outs and warble, so some people might still prefer the boot, and at least the boot could be used as patch material for somebody to remaster an "Ultimate Best Version". Also, you will have the case of multiple aud recordings for the same show, each with its own flaws, so commenting on the flaws will help people patch together a 'best source" aud version.

There are many great ears on this site, and many great audio signal processing analysts. By comparing sources we can find the best available source, then have a special list, "Trader's Den Recommended Versions", with ID #'s.

[BoldCaptain]

This subject is actually one of my biggest pet-peeves. Almost half of the files I download need to be renamed before I decode and burn them. Any standardization is surely a good thing, and my previous post brought nothing to the conversation except proof that I can be as big an ass as the next person. I saw no reason for the immediate attack on someone trying to discuss a serious issue, so there must be something here I am unaware of.
I will now go back under the bridge that i crawled out from.

[freezer]

Originally Posted by U2Lynne

Sorry this thread got so out of hand. I actually censored another post over in the VBT forum just recently and it's turned into a total mess in The Lounge. *Normally* something like this doesn't happen in Technobabble. I think perhaps I should have warned you a bit when I first saw freezer was posting over here.... if you take a look at his past posts, you'll see what I mean. Sometimes he makes some good points, but he has an 'interesting' way of making them.

This thread was in no way as *nasty* as what happens over in the lounge. Nobody here was discussing taking 'donations' for anything.

C'mon Lynne, you know you're just as guilty of egging on the flaming, as I am of getting too volitile in a discussion. (How about a disclaimer about certain moderators who enjoy these 'interesting' threads?)

I'll apologize if you'll admit to your shortcomings also.

Hell, I apologize anyway.

And in an attempt to solidify the apology, there will be a package of new shows out to Five today and to jcrab66 as soon as he PMs me with an address.

[guygee]

Originally Posted by U2Lynne

Hey Guygee, I am interested in your talk about the database. I also sent Stephen a link to your post asking him to take a look.

Sorry this thread got so out of hand. I actually censored another post over in the VBT forum just recently and it's turned into a total mess in The Lounge. *Normally* something like this doesn't happen in Technobabble. [...]

Thank you U2Lynne, its OK, I am actually to the point of reading though and laughing now. I hope Stephen can wade through far enough to get to the previous two posts by range-hood and me, and this one.

range_hood's suggestion for tightening the torrenting rules definitely could apply to properly extracted analog masters, and daud masters (but even then, I wonder how many people would complain "but I WANT the bootleg-XXX with artwork?).

But let's look at the opposite extreme, "taper unknown", and shows with many versions (boots and otherwise). Then I advocate that we loosen the rules "just enough" to get the music out there in the hands of the fans. Specifically, maybe allow for CDr(x) extractions or even "source unknown" lineages IF (and ony if) no other "definitive" sources are yet available. If people try to seed when a better version is already available, then the mods need a system to quickly check and ban (or allow for fan self-policing as well). But if it is not clear that a better version has already been seeded, then let the torrent flow. And again, if the seeder complains, "but I have your version, and mine is better" well, maybe he is right, get his show out there.

Then, encourage the fans to download multiple versions and compare them in a special forum. Allow people to upload a spectrograph screenshot for each show torrent entry to the database, as well. For each show, we need to assign a version #, and allow people access to infofiles with setlists and lineage, shntool LEN output, and st5/ffp files.

Maybe the easiest way to do this is to just assign a prominent Torrent ID to each torrent (still probably need to add the ID to the folder, or equivalent), then create an easily searchable archive, and let the fans upload the infofiles, st5/ffp's, spectrograph screenshots, and shntool info. Leave a placeholder, and whichever fan uploads a piece of info, he/she gets "credit".

The mods might initially have to do some "cheerleading" to encourage people to use the system, but I think there are enough dedicated people out there to make this work, and eventually it will become habitual. For most collectors, it will be fun to compare versions and "debate" the merits and flaws of each version. This approach would also take any extra load off of the seeders, so it will not change the current seeding procedure or discourage people from seeding here.

Through such a process I think a consensus should form on best available version, and Trader's Den can create a list of recommended versions for people to reference.