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#31
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Re: mp3/lossless question for audiophiles...
I'm merging this into the general 'mp3' thread
excellent points made today, nothing much for me to add!
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Checksums Demystified | ask for help in Technobabble thetradersden.org | ttd recommended free software/freeware webring shntool tlh eac foobar2000 spek audacity cdwave vlc Quote:
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#32
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Re: mp3/lossless question for audiophiles...
i dont listen with $5 speakers. but if you choose to, then no you wont here the diff.
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#33
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Re: mp3 format?
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While we support the adherence to seeder's wishes and usually agree that people getting a recording for free should be mindful of what the seeder asks, it is generally accepted that once you put something on the Internet for free, you no longer have any control over what is done with it and expecting 100% of the recipients to follow your wishes is ridiculous. Of course, many people will need to convert what they get to MP3 (hopefully high bitrate) so they can listen on portable players - but this site is about trading high-quality audio, so audio that is intentionally degraded (MP3, WMA, etc) isn't allowed - mainly to keep the pool clean.
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"There are some of these recordings where it is just a whirring, and you cannot hear the music. " - Jimmy Page, 2007 / JUL / 26 Torrent Help: seed policy | MiniDisc ban | seed guide | Ripping |checksum (st5 ffp) | restricted bands | software | download
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#34
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Re: mp3/lossless question for audiophiles...
I can most definitely hear the difference between low-bitrate MP3 and lossless, even on $5 speakers. You have to know what to listen for. You know when you get a recording with a really well-defined stereo image, where you can hear precisely where each instrument is placed from left to right? At 128k, MP3 "muddies" that. Things are harder to place in terms of position, because joint-stereo MP3 encoding moves them around in the stereo soundstage. Still, in my own subjective tests, I can't tell the difference between higher-bitrate MP3 and lossless with just my ears.
But here's a test you can do if you really want to objectively hear the difference is with your own ears. Get a CD with a lot of energy & dynamics. I used "Making Plans For Nigel" by XTC. Rip it to a WAV file. Then, encode the WAV file to MP3 using the highest-quality conversion settings you can. Then, use whatever audio program you've got to expand the MP3 *back* into a new WAV file. Then, go into your audio editor and open the new, lossy-sourced WAV file. Use your audio editor's "Invert" function to turn the entire waveform upside-down. Then, open your original (non-MP3-encoded) WAV file and use your editing program's Paste function to "add" it to the inverted one - mixing the two waveforms at the same volume to create a new waveform. This way, all audio that is present in both the original and the MP3-encoded file is cancelled out by this process - leaving you only the sound that is present in the original file but not the lossy one. So when you play this inverted-and-added file, what you hear is everything that MP3 encoding removed from the original file. You'll hear some highhat sizzle, the top end of the guitar, maybe the snare, maybe some crunge off the vocal as well. It's an interesting experiment. Using this test, I was able to determine that LAME VBR -V3 provided the best tradeoff between filesize and sound quality for listening on my proudly non-iPod MP3 player. Using V2 or V1 increased the filesize didn't significantly reduce the amount of sound I heard in the added-and-inverted file, and using -V4 significantly increased the sound in this file - IE, significantly increased the amount of audio that the lossy encoding removed form the original file. Using CBR is, as Monty Python used to say, right out. Fun fun fun. Another thing you can do to hear the encoding loss is take an audio file and subjected it to several generations of MP3 encoding... convert it to MP3, back to WAV, back to MP3, back to WAV... do this 5 or 10 times and it will greatly exaggerate the lossy artifacts, so you'll get an idea of what even one pass of encoding is doing, ever so slightly. What's interesting is that people are so used to tape, they assume "lossyness" will sound something like multiple generations of cassette dubbing. This isn't true in the least. Many sharp transients and attacks, the first thing to go in tape dubbing, will survive multiple generations of MP3 encoding... but the stereo imaging will suffer horrifically, sounds will slide all over the place, and sustained or noisy sounds will become "bubbly". As I believe I saw someone somewhere on this board say in a haiku-like post, "Bubbly Limewire cymbals." No members have liked this post.
Last edited by kupietz; 2007-12-13 at 02:14 AM. |
#35
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Re: mp3/lossless question for audiophiles...
I was going to add my comments until I saw kupietz' post! Instead, I humbly offer, "What HE said!"
If you have good equipment, discerning hearing, and some knowledge and listening experience, yes, you can identify the differences. Kupietz kindly offered a "proofing method" in addition! I keep the originals as I download them and share them, since that's what's expected. I make mp3's for my own use in my player because (a) I want a LOT of choices in my music when I'm out and about, (b) I'm pushing 40 and the days when my ears could "hear it all" are diminishing anyway, (c) I rarely have the time to sit on my butt an really *enjoy* music in a proper setting anyway (more often I am on the go), and (d) as long as I use a high mp3 encode rate, I don't find myself nitpicking the tracks... I'm just enjoying the music. kirkhere No members have liked this post.
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#36
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Re: mp3/lossless question for audiophiles...
I am a little slow to understand how mp3 looses quality .I am not talking about thetrading pool, just in general. I have downloaded alot of music from different places in mp3 format and have them on a harddrive, If I copy them to a cd in the same mp3 format do I loose quality everytime or do I only loose quality if I convert them to another format? Can someone please explain? thank you.
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#37
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Re: mp3/lossless question for audiophiles...
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ABT Seeding Policy | ABT Seeding Guide | VBT Seeding Policy | VBT Seeding Guide Software Links HERE | FAQ is HERE | Technobabble forum is HERE. If your port number is in red, you are firewalled! How to Set Up Your Router (so you aren't firewalled) and How to Port Forward on Windows XP Five's Checksums Demystified - everything and anything you want to know about checksums
On a Mac? Get XLD to rip your CDs. Please see this guide - X Lossless Decoder (XLD): How to create flawless CD rips on Mac OS X No members have liked this post.
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#38
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Re: mp3/lossless question for audiophiles...
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#39
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Re: mp3/lossless question for audiophiles...
There is a definite difference even at a high bitrate like 320kb/s. My computer speakers aren't the best just an average set with a little subwoofer. But if you play back to back an uncompressed WAV and an MP3 of that same WAV...the MP3 just has no life to it. It really dulls the music down. You don't get any of the sparkle or natural bass. It's all flat.
Of course if all you want to listen to is the latest Top 40 dance/punk/whatever hit song...you don't care cause it is all about the catchy hook. But for those of us who like to pay attention to our music...it just doesn't cut it. So I will never pay for MP3's....I consider them as a preview to whatever album I may be buying only...kind of like seeing a digital snapshot of a Picasso. You're not going to pay top dollar on Itunes for that are you? No members have liked this post.
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#40
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Re: mp3/lossless question for audiophiles...
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#41
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Re: mp3/lossless question for audiophiles...
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#42
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Re: mp3/lossless question for audiophiles...
How do people here feel about .mp4 formats, especially the Apple Lossless Codec? I think the lossy aac files are better sounding than their mp3 counterparts of similar bitrate, to the point that I can't discern 256 kbps aacs from cda.
Will Apple Lossless codec ever be allowed to be traded here? I know dime hates it [I just asked them this afternoon; bitter about it for some reason]. No members have liked this post.
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#43
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Re: mp3/lossless question for audiophiles...
iTunes doesn't sell mp3s. They are aac files, technically mp4.
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#44
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Re: mp3/lossless question for audiophiles...
Snobbery ruins everything.... even free music. Some of us are happy to hear something new - without looking a gift horse in the mouth or nitpicking it to death.
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#45
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Re: mp3/lossless question for audiophiles...
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if you read our mission statement on the first page, you will see that this site wasn't created to be the biggest site, or the most popular site, or ________ -- it was created for the serious collector as a place where they would "know what they're getting" more so than many other online forums Quote:
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