[Five]

Originally Posted by ZosoPlayer

Awesome stuff! Thank you VERY miuch. I think I am getting it. I do not want to start using this forum as my crutch, but let me see if really I GOT IT:

Lineage#1:

Source: Audience
48kHz DAT Master > DAT clone > Audio DVD
AUD recording using DAT <this would be labeled DAT(M)>. Than made an exact copy of the DAT <the clone is still considered DAT(M)?>. Then burned an Audio DVD <this would be labled Audio DVD(0)>? Only thing really missing in this lineage is how he got from DAT to DVD, correct?

the "clone" could be identical to the DAT(M) as any DAT>DAT transfer should be, but there is some chance of errors being introduced so it would be DAT(M)>DAT(1).

the audio DVD would normally be called Audio DVD(1), even tho it is like Audio DVD(0), zeros are generally skipped when changing formats. EG cass(m)>"cdr(0)" would normally be notated as cass(m)>cdr(1).

in the case of this lineage, it is unclear what devices were used for any of the steps including DAT>DAT but often that info is lost in the sands of time and cannot be found unless the person who did the transfer shows up and gives the information.

also, it is probable that the person is listing the "your copy will be..." lineage (ala livenirvana.com) meaning that the files for burning an audio dvdr were created and tested but what has been shared is the files for burning the audio DVDR and not the re-extracted files. I'm not certain which show this is, the other info and files included could give some clues.

Originally Posted by ZosoPlayer

Lineage#2:
Source: Audience
1st Gen Cassette>DAT3>CDR4>eac>wav>flac
A tough one... 1st gen casette implies that it came from XXX(0) which came from a XXX(M). We are missing the 2nd generation here, but then it was transfered to a DAT, to a CDR, etc. I would imagine this is questionable quality due to the multiple generations and gaps in the lineage? Not sure if I really got this one.

pretty much... like you said 1st Gen Cassette (aka cass(1)) means it came from XXX(M) could be cassette also or perhaps open reel, perhaps even dat (!?). The 1st Generation Cassette was transferred to DAT, which was copied twice DAT>DAT, thus "DAT3" which was copied to audio cdr and subsequently copied three times CDR>CDR using nero or easy coaster creator or whatever thus "CDR4", which is what the seeder extracted from using EAC to create the FLAC set you now have on your HD. At least the generations are known, often it is gen(x) which could be (1) or (100) and while digital generations are much less important that cass generations, errors can creep in the more times a show is copied digitally using a non-secure method.

Originally Posted by ZosoPlayer

Lineage#3:

original silver CDs -> EAC (V0.95 prebeta 4) -> wav ->
FLAC frontend (V1.7.1 Etree edition) -> FLAC
The original silver CD means that this was someone's bootleg, most likely a purchased professional bootleg. Than converted to wav via EAC and then converted to flac using frontend <not sure if I understand what frontend is, but made an educated guess>. These flac files should sound exactly (or close to it) like the original silver. No generation loss. Only thing that is missing is the lineage of the original silver bootleg.

yes, this means an original (thus "silver") bootleg ripped using EAC. The lineage before the bootleg is normally a complete mystery, or else ppl would share the pre-bootleg source if it is available. Bootleggers often use eq and dynamics processing which is taboo in the trading community unless explicitly mentioned by the "remasterer" in the lineage. The small amount of information missing is a re-assurace that secure mode was used and whether the offsets were corrected. When there is an EAC log included, this information can be found along with a full error report that shows explicitly how perfect the rip was.

Some ppl will put Silver>EAC(secure, offsets correct)>FLAC and include the .log file to really put the icing on the cake.

Originally Posted by ZosoPlayer

Lineage#4:
Souce: Audience
Master>DAT>CDR
This one confuses me a little as well. Does "Master>DAT" mean that the original taper recording the show on a DAT <making it DAT(M)> or that the master was another source and then converted to a DAT <making it DAT(0)>? If the DAT is a DAT(M), than the CDR would be CDR(0). If the DAT is a DAT(0), then the CDR is a CDR(1), correct?

Not sure if I passed or not

this one looks like a Presence lineage, which requires a small amount of explanation. Presence kept track of format changes but not generation thru the years, so he is saying it came from xxx(m)>dat(x)>cdr(x). the lineage ends at cdr, but the files will be FLAC format, which means the extraction was done using unknown software (EAC if he has a choice) and compressed to FLAC. In the cases where Presence is doing an analog to digital transfer personally, the source info will be listed similar to above and he is using ProTools with an unknown high-quality soundcard. He is very careful to share only the best sources and listens very carefully for errors.

which brings me to my next point, as time goes by you will begin to recognize some seeders and have reasonable expectations for the quality of stuff they pass along to others. The lineage is a tool for determining the quality of what is being shared as compared to listening to the best possible source (many times analog(m), which can never be duplicated 100% perfectly) and also noteworthy is that a worn-out cass(m)>highqual transfer>FLAC can sometimes sound worse than a pristine cass(1)>highqual transfer>FLAC. The lineage usually gives a good clue but your ears will always be the best judge when determining the best possible quality available source.