[freezer]

[quote=Five]As for masters, let's set the record straight here.

A master is a master is a master. It is the original media used by the taper. In the case of studio outtakes it is the original analog/digital mixdown reel that is the master. So this and only this gets the (m). {/QUOTE}

But what if the master reel is destroyed, as was in the case of the John Entwistle 7/18/79 Studio rough Mixes that were just seeded here. at TTD.

Would you then want to consider the 1G cassette the master now since you will not be able to trace the lineage further back any longer?

I would vote no, as I agree with Five, that a master is a master is a master. And that the master is unique and stays unique, even if it no longer exists.

Originally Posted by Five

The exception is FM. With FM, there's two kinds of masters (yes, wtf, but that's the way it is): (a) the first media used to store a mixdown recorded by a radio station itself, and then there's (b) the original media used by a taper. MD is not allowed for taping FM, so that leaves CASS, ANA (which often means open reel, but also states "unknown analog media"), DAT, soundcard > WAV, CDR from a standalone burner. So, something could be FM > Sony Receiver > Aiwa AD-F810 3-Head Cassette Deck (recording) > CASS(m) > Aiwa AD-F810 (transfer) > Audiophile2496 soundcard > Adobe Audition v1.5 (recording, tracking and cutting) > FLAC frontend v1.1.2a (verify enabled, level 6) > FLAC


now if you burned that to a CDR, then it would be CDR(0), e.g.: FM > Sony Receiver > Aiwa AD-F810 3-Head Cassette Deck (recording) > CASS(m) > Aiwa AD-F810 (transfer) > Audiophile2496 soundcard > Adobe Audition v1.5 (recording, tracking and cutting) > FLAC frontend v1.1.2a (verify enabled, level 6) > FLAC > EAC v0.95 beta 2 (write offset corrected) > CDR(0)

but nobody really does this without keeping the original data as a backup, right? So you usually wont see a lineage like that last one I posted show up re-extracted to FLAC. The only way this would be if the CDR could be extracted with no errors whatsoever to the point where SHNtool cmp, st5s et al. are all identical to the original FLACs. So this means, its important to read & write with your offsets corrected. The funniest thing is, after a couple hours spent trying to get your computer to make a perfectly accurate audio cdr until you finally succeed gives you a distrust for the audio CDR format. So when I've got a real technophobic friend who's computer illiterate (we all know one), I'll burn him/her a CDR(0) and tell them that if they meet somebody who wants to trade anything similar to send them to me 'cause I might be able to help to trade for a couple more. Then when it comes to that trade, I try to get talking FLAC as soon as possible, altho sometimes I end up getting audio cdrs anyways (oldschool). Most ppl will take the FLACs so long as there's a computer in their house. I'll tell them about foobar2k & flac frontend then they're pretty much okay.

OK, new can o’ woims here.

Last week I sent 3 shows to Five to be shared at TTD. These were from WWOZ-FM in New Orleans.

WWOZ broadcasts over 100 shows a year live, and that means live-as-it –happens, OR broadcasts pre-recorded shows and that ‘usually’ means recorded within the last 24 hours, OR live-in-the-studio and that means a spontaneous performance within the WWOZ broadcast studio.

(Yeah, I know there ain’t many radio stations still doing this type of broadcast anymore.)

However, WWOZ does NOT always archive their live broadcasts, particularly the spontaneous live in the studio shows.

And this wouldn’t be an issue, except that I just mailed Five a handful of shows that were captured direct to CDR from the FM.

And there is no “master copy” in existence at the radio station level. My CDR is a “master copy” (There are probably more master copies, but who knows for sure. I do know in one instance WWOZ did not archive one of the shows I sent to Five, because the musicians were on-line looking for a copy.)

I’m saying the lineage is like this:

WWOZ-FM>Marantz 2215>JVC 5010>CDR master(0)>CDR(1).

The CDR(1) is the copy I sent to Five.

In order to seed it, I assume he’ll add additional lineage.

But what about it, is the lineage I gave good enough?

In these cases you won’t be able to get a lower generation, it just doesn’t exist.

Originally Posted by Five

So, in the case of Studio Reel > DAT(1) > CDR(0) > EAC (secure, offsets corrected) > FLAC The CDR becomes 0 providing it is a digital dump, however if it is analog then it becomes CDR(1) which is also confusing because then it looks like maybe there's been two audio CDRs instead of one. It's confusing as hell. The best solution to this is to make mention of how the heck it got from DAT > CDR, like the tapers elite who always list their equipment in a cryptic stew of abbreviated company names and model numbers (jargon).

In the case of the Entwistle roughs, there was only cassette(1G)>JVC 5010>CDR(0). And since I sent a copy to a different friend for seeding at dime, both were cassette(1G)>JVC 5010>CDR(0)…but they’ll be different because they are 2 different digital transfers.

How would you lineage specialists deal with that?

Originally Posted by Five

okay I'm really rambling now does anybody really read posts like this?

It was easier to respond this way than to send you a private message about the lineage on the discs that are in the mail already……

Now you can get a consensus on how the lineage should be on LIVE FM shows, since you are about to be dealing with some soon.