[AAR.oner]

Originally Posted by sabkisscrue

Im more than aware that there is the way of encoding it that I do it and firewire to pc/vbr encoding.

We're talking about VHS here though.

This requires a different way of doing things because
vhs is full of noise, full of off colors, and otherwise crappy. So it requires those filters, I use a JVC HRS-9800U svhs with a tbc/dnr, a panasonic es10 (as a pass through device, corrects the black level, helps to correct some vhs jitter), a sony tr740 digital8 to further clean up the image, and finally a jvc drm-100.

The final result is something that I really must tell you is often better than the source and thats because certain things are considered.
S-Video Wiring (AR Pro II Series). I want the seperation of the colors and the richness and brightness of them, that is absent from most dvds. Also, the s-video I use does get a lot of detail out of the image. Black level.
Cleanness. Nearly every piece of equipment I use works to help either clean up or correct something. The Sony which you dont like, actually does help to clean up the image. The JVC does has strong noise reduction filters that truely clean up the image even more and that "encoder" that is in that recorder is one of the best ever put into a SA recorder (more on that later). Believe me, even you as a pro would like this unit.
Clean, colorful, full of detail (even with all that filtering), and few compression artifacts. I use the hightest bitrates. But, I of course have stuff pc authored as well, in that case ill dub things to mini dv tape and have that person encode it over a computer.

does everything go over yer head completely??? or do you just ignore the point so you don't have to admit the truth

you touched on 3 separate topics which need to dealt with individually:

FILTERING:
i think we've pretty much cleared up the subject of DNR/TBC re: method/devices yer using...but even assuming it does improve picture quality over using nothing at all, are there other devices available that would improve picture quality even further while still staying within a low-end budget? yes

CABLING:
thats a whole nother discussion that everyone will have a differing opinion on and in all honesty, has a negligible effect at best and very little quantitative data supporting one way or the other...so to each their own on brands of cable

ENCODING:
an *extremely* important process that most people overlook...and no offense, but this is FACT -- a built-in encoder on a standalone DVD recorder is inferior to a program-based encoding program because:


1. its encoding on-the-fly...this means its capturing, processing the information, filtering/etc, and then compressing all at the same time...which leads to digital artifacts, dropped frames, "glitches", and many other issues


2. most standalone DVD recorders will only let you set bit rates according to approximate "quality levels" [i.e. XP/SP/LP]...what it doesn't allow you to control is how many passes it makes [2-pass vs 1-pass] or CBR vs VBR...i think everyone can agree that 2-pass encoding is a good idea all the time, but a necessity when it comes to non-master or aged/"imperfect" sources like we're talking about...

not to mention the audio aspect, with some recorders allowing you to choose between the desired lossless PCM stream or a compressed stream [AC3]...but many that simply compress the audio to AC3 automatically with no option otherwise


3. there are numerous encoding engines out there, all which use various methods and algorithms...they are not all the same, quality varies greatly...and there is no question here -- 99% of the standalone units use very basic, "low-end" encoders for compression when compared with software-based encoders


4. your standalone recorder [JVC DRM100] and most standalones out there capture at Half D1, which is a resolution of 352x480 (NTSC) and 352x576 (PAL)...note that this is half of the horizontal resolution of standard D1 [DVD specs]

some will bring up the fact that VHS itself only has a resolution of 350x480 (NTSC), so why would capturing at full D1 even matter? loooong story short -- i can say results vary, i've seen instances where you got better quality at Half D1, and others at full D1...also depends on what, if any, processing you are going to be doing in the editing process [color correction, etc]

either way, you want the options so you can get the best out of that particualr source


==============================================

again, i haven't spent all this time breaking all this shit down in order to make you look like an idiot or say yer transfers suck...and although it seems you've created quite a reputation for yerself across the online trading communities, i'm trying to ignore all that and keep this discussion technological in nature so that anyone wanting to get into or already doing VHS transfers will know the facts, the specs, the options, and how they all relate to output quality


there's really no arguing that standalone DVD recorders are an outdated technology, and 99.9% of the models they put on the market were designed for home-use and "basement dub houses"...that's why they were never used on any scale by the professional video industry, they produce an inferior "product" compared to other tools available...the tools available now in 2010 make this fact even more apparent



CLIFF NOTES:
you will get far more desirable results in your VHS transfers using a dedicated A>D converter, with manually adjustable filtering [DNR, TBC, etc], and capturing with a dedicated NLE [Final Cut, Adobe Premiere, Sony Vegas, etc]

once all editing/processing has been done in yer NLE, use a software-based encoder to compress down to yer desired format [DVD, DVD9, Blu-ray, or whatever]...if yer a Mac person like myself, i use a variety of encoders depending on output format -- Episode Pro, Sorensen Squeeze Pro, or Compressor

for PC users, i know Cinemacraft makes an excellent encoder, Grass Valley's Procoder also highly revered...and NLE's like Sony Vegas or Adobe Premiere come bundled with compression engines that will give far better results than any SA recorder