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Old 2007-05-26, 08:36 PM
Phishblowz Phishblowz is offline
GrOoOvemeister
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Re: What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

I am completetly unaware of the personal aggressions held by those on this thread...I am not really a ZOMB user, though I have been there before and got some cool Floyd stuff (thanx to Zomb for that) and I also don't care for the Smashing Pumpkins too much, so all of the history is lost on me...but strictly from lookin at previous comments and trying to put it all together, I am noticing a lot of problems on both sides of the fence

first I think it's inappropriate to expect people to respect your wishes when torrenting stuff...people will use free-will and do as they please...this is why lots of old-school folks didn't share their masters in the first place back in the day, because they didn't want people fuckin with it and the only way to do that is to keep it to yourself...of course I'd rather see things shared nicely, but asking people to not torrent somewhere and getting mad because are people are gaining access to your stuff is kinda childish...but if I read correctly that it was posted there almost as soon as it completed here, then it does sound like someone was deliberately trying to piss of the uploader, so whoever put it on Zomb is a dick for doin it (knowing it would stir up a shitstorm) and the uploader was askin for trouble by putting rules on the sharing of the music...once I dl it, it's mine...I will respect the idea of not remastering it, or mp3ing it for further distribution, but if I think there is interest elsewhere, and I think it's a good show, then I'll upload it to reach a maximum audience...the Zomb policy saying something to the effect of "fuck the tapers" (which I know is a gross misinterpretation, but I don't remember exactly what it said) seems to invite a bad attitude and it should be expected that tapers may take offense to the idea that you encourage people to go against tapers wishes...but on the other side, I think if a taper is sharing his source, the only rule should be to try and share it with as many people as possible for maximum enjoyment...a lot of this seems foolish to me...I think when you share the music, it's all or nothin...once it's out there, it's free as a bird...and the tapers should have enough sense to realize this when they decide whether or not to share it

FWIW I think bodhisativa should have been smart enough to keep his emotions out of the picture when discussing site policy...you knew you were heated when you made the comment about not sharing Sebastians stuff on your site...and you knew that you wouldn't hold to that...that would be punishing your members for your personal disagreements, and you knew that...I appreciate the idea that you changed your mind...but it seems that after the whole thing blew up, you realized you were gonna come out lookin like a dick and backed off of your statement...of course you're allowed to rethink things (constructive commentary is great for that) but you should have known better than to allow personal feelings to affect you as an adminstrator

all parties concerned here sound like normal, decent folks, and I think it's a shame how something like this can bring out the worst in all of us, and yes it reflects poorly on all parties involved...hopefully there can be peace in the valley once again (ummm...did we ever have that???) because all of this BS really takes away from the spirit of sharing that deep down, I think we all try to perpetuate...hopefully we can all find a way to put htis behind us and have fun with it

I think Sebastian is wrong for sharing his tapes and getting angry when they are shared elsewhere...come on dude, you HAD to see that comin a mile away...you can't honestly react with shock and offense at an obvious outcome can you...sounds like you did it strictly to get the argument with Zomb started in the first place (but again, I know little of the history, so pardon any glaring inaccuracy or omission of facts...I am only making my opinion on what I've gathered here)

I also think that bodhisativa is wrong for the fact that he should never have fought with Sebastian in the first place and got into the whole "screw you, your tapes aren't welcome on my site" thing...both of you should be ashamed of yourselves...lots of kind folks who just want to enjoy good music are in the middle of two people personal disagreements, and that's not right...this whole thing should have been left private...the point of this excercise was to embarass bodhisativa in a public forum and bring to light things about his site that you disagree with...there were better ways to do this...I think you both come off lookin a little stupid for it honestly (i'm sorry if I just really pissed one or both of you off...as I said, it seems you are both reasonable people that would otherwise be well-respected)

and lastly about the Zomb donation policy...giving people stuff for donations is wrong...I don't really see any problem with stickers or a gold star or anything, but if people can get free stuff (no purchase necessary, so to speak) then so be it, but if there is something that states that you give them stuff based on the size of the donation (which I can't find that page on the Zomb, but I believe I heard bodhisativa confirm that they give more to the larger donaters) then that IS wrong...even if that's what you choose to do (which is your perogative) announcing that larger donations receive more (or better) "gifts" invites the accusations...if it wasn't stated that way, who really cares what you give the donaters, but announcing that more (or better) stuff is given based on the size of the donation is wrong, and IMHO something like that shouldn't be stated as policy...I hope you guys know that I don't really think more or less of either of you and I am just adding my opinions to help calm the situation...hopefully you read this with an open mind and don't just rip into me for my "ignorance" of the big picture...I'm just hoping that two otherwise decent individuals may find a peaceful resolution....even if that resolution is to agree to disagree

in closing I believe that you should share with no strings attached or on't share at all...I'm sure you could vine it to your friends who you trust to keep things private if need be, but if you feel like you need to share (a noble thing to do BTW...props for your efforts in recording AND sharing) then you must accept that the source will be shared far and wide...frankly, I think you should be honored that other people were so happy with your work that they decided to share it on another site to reach a different audience (regardless of your opinions of the administrator) your work was appreciated and that's why it is getting major circulation...although it may leave a bad taste in your mouth the way it was done, you should still feel some sort of pride in the fact that others felt the need to share it elsewhere...it's a testament to the quality of your recording that it was so good they had to share it far and wide

lastly, I feel that Zomb has a right to do what they please, and as long as they are open and honest about what they do, whether or not it's "ethical" is your call, and if you feel it's not legit, don't go there...but if bodhisativa allows personal feelings to govern the way the site runs, then that becomes dishonest...the only reason you "changed your mind" is because you knew from the get go as soon as you calmed down that you made a poor decision (nothing wrong with that BTW...we all have been know to do that from time to time) but "flip-flopping" based on your emotions at the moment will lead to lots of changed policy, and if the policy changes all the time to bend to the emotions of the admin then I can easily see how people are turned off by your site...you really oughta get to know exactly how you feel about every aspect of the site (maybe open a forum for discussion to solidify your postion if need be) but make a policy that you are proud of and willing to stick with and stick with it...if you don't know how you feel about something, don't address the issue till you gave it a lot of thought and are ready to defend your position...it seems your anger got the best of you and led you to speak for the site (inappropriately) and opened a whole can of worms...this probably could've been avoided by not responding in haste, and saying something to the effect of "I will only remove torrents at the request of the band" or "people are allowed to share what they please on my site, and I won't stop them from sharing because you disapprove" or something well thought out and decent sounding, and all of this could have been avoided...I realize this is a lengthy post and I'm sorry, but I hear some really good people saying some really fucked up shit, and I'm hoping I can try to be a voice of reason for you...not that I am any better than anyone else, but sometimes an outsider can see things without emotion and therefore be a better judge of the situation...although it's far to late to make a difference now, hopefully my comments will help you both to make better decisions in the future...you're both kinda getting what you deserve for acting strictly on emotion and not thinking logically...Sebastian knew that he had no control over people sharing at Zomb, and bodhisativa knew he wouldn't be able to police his community to slight Sebastian...you both fucked up and it's all comin bak on ya...I personally don't see a whole lot I like at Zomb, and I don't really care for their policies, so I don't bother to go there, but I wouldn't mind if Zomb members are sharing something I upped here...trying to stop assholes from having access to stuff that's in circulation is futile (I learned that in the ratio discussion thread) and the only thing you guys accomplished was bring the public attention to your personal situation...hopefully you guys are mature enough to let it go and move on and learn from this to be even better folks than you were before this mess...good luck guys, I wish you all the best...sorry if I am a little offensive, but that's my 2 cents (alright this one was at least a nickel...maybe even a dime, but that's what I think)

P.S. this boondoggle only goes to show how good a job U2Lynne does here...I don't think I've ever heard anyone question her authority...I may disagree with some of the things sh does, but I respect her and know that she has a clear idea of what is right and wrong, and while she is willing to "change her mind" it is rare (if ever) because she has a clear vision and is willing to defend it...God bless you Lynne for having a great site...it's obviously rare to find a site where everyone agrees on the policies (for the most part) and situations like this only magnify how great a job you do here...keep up the good work

as that Fantastic Four guy says....FLAME ON