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Old 2004-11-27, 01:37 PM
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RainDawg RainDawg is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2004
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Re: To shntool md5, or not to shntool md5

OK...long post...let me respond the best I can.

Originally Posted by katnapz
Now, when shntool creates the txt file, it defaults to a specific name format each time (meaning it puts the word "shntool" in the txt file name), but when I'm looking at some of the seeded torrents here on TTD, I'm seeing what appears to be wholefile md5's included. Are people creating the shntool txt files and then changing the names to a ".md5" extension?
What is considered the proper naming format for shntool files then?


Are these folks not following rule 10, or am I reading the rule wrong and posting with the wholefile md5s (if original) acceptable as a substitute?
No, these are traditional wholefile md5s. We have been somewhat prudent in the past few weeks in enforcing rule 10, as many people had some difficulty in getting shntool setup. There is no accepted naming format for the .txt file containing shntool md5s, but the script I put on my site (presumably the one you're using) names it like that to draw differentiation. shntool md5s should never get a .md5 extenstion. At some point, when we get some more definitive ways of setting up and using shntool, we'll enforce this rule more rigidly.

Originally Posted by katnapz
There was also a torrent upload where RainDawg specifically thanked the poster for including the shntool file (don't remember which one now), and in the info file posted you can see the "shntool" name in those files. So that also makes me wonder about those other posts if RD is taking the time to thank someone on that point in one thread.
I did that because some people have asked me for help getting this setup, and I drop by their thread and thank them for going to the trouble of doing it this way. I've not posted in every single thread, but when there is prior discussion between me and the seeder, I feel it's good courtesy to let them know, publically, that I appreciate their efforts.

Originally Posted by katnapz
One final question as I can't figure this out either. Under the FLAC fingerprints FAQ, it says, "FLAC's use of the fingerprint allows users much more versatility while still maintaining the same core functionality : verifiying that the audio in your files has not altered since it was seeded. Of course, a user may still use wholefile md5 checks on .flac files if they see fit, but this is a practice performed out of ignorance rather than functionality. Using FLAC's fingerprinting is much more useful than wholefile md5 checking, and should be used 100% of the time."
I understand not using wholefile md5s for FLACs, but should we be including shntool md5 checks with FLAC uploads?
shntool md5s and FLAC fingerprints are an identical value, they are just outputted into a text file in a slightly different format. Technically speaking, you could include either, and it would work fine. For FLAC, since there is an inherant support for it, we just ask that people use the ffp. Since SHN and APE does not have such ability, the only option here is the shntool md5, so that is what we'd rather have. Wholefile checks on FLAC files is a very bad practice; it's overly restrictive and pointless.

Originally Posted by katnapz
....something, something, something about you folks wanting to create a database of the checks for torrents uploaded? but I don't remember where that part is in the FAQ, and my head hurts from thinking too much at this point.
Yes, one of the goals that has been harder to get off the ground than I thought it would be is a database of seeds and fingerprints. If we build it on wholefile md5, it will hold people back from tagging or converting their files. However, my vision was to create a database just built on shntool md5 or ffp (identical values, of course) so that people could check that the audio was consistent with the original seed, but feel free to rename, convert, tag, add seektables, etc, and not screw up the md5 check.
Through the clouds,
Throught the lies,
We'll never see,
What's never been,
At the ending of life and the coming of death,
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