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pete's montreux
2005-07-20, 11:41 PM
Does anyone have any experience with this program? I just realized I don't have a floppy disk drive in my computer, and the program urged me to make "rescue" diskettes, but am I going to even need them?

Has anyone had to use the diskettes?

jcrab66
2005-07-21, 12:55 AM
i have used it several times and always skipped the rescue disc thing....

wildman
2005-07-21, 02:31 AM
i used swiss knife??? it wwas free and small and it worked... just be carefull if your new to that...I just partitioned myself out of an operating system a few months ago..lmao thinking about it...

TheMamba
2005-07-21, 07:42 AM
I've used it and always skipped the rescue discs as well. They're unnecessary in my opinion.

pete's montreux
2005-07-21, 11:35 AM
Thanks!

I think I'll be trying it out later tonight. I'll let everyone know how it goes.

Ted
2005-07-21, 12:05 PM
See if you can burn a rescue CD. If your system becomes unbootable for some reason (it happens), I'd imagine the rescure disk is what you need to be able to recover any/all partitions you may have. I never used the program, but it makes sense to me that that is what its for - otherwise, why would they suggest you make them? :hmm:

It may be true that most people never need it, but IF you do, you'll be glad you have one ;)

thisistoto
2005-07-21, 01:15 PM
someone was asking around here earlier if you can mesh two physically different drives together.......can you?

pete's montreux
2005-07-21, 01:58 PM
See if you can burn a rescue CD. If your system becomes unbootable for some reason (it happens), I'd imagine the rescure disk is what you need to be able to recover any/all partitions you may have. I never used the program, but it makes sense to me that that is what its for - otherwise, why would they suggest you make them? :hmm:

It may be true that most people never need it, but IF you do, you'll be glad you have one ;)

I already thought of that, I have to use a diskette. :(

pete's montreux
2005-07-21, 01:59 PM
someone was asking around here earlier if you can mesh two physically different drives together.......can you?

Well, It says I can merge partitions. I was thinking of splitting the drive I don't use, and then merging that partiton with the drive I use for storage and see what happens, but I won't do that unless I have the rescue diskettes.

Ted
2005-07-21, 02:44 PM
Well, It says I can merge partitions. I was thinking of splitting the drive I don't use, and then merging that partiton with the drive I use for storage and see what happens, but I won't do that unless I have the rescue diskettes.Do you mean that Partition Magic will allow you to merge a partition from one HD with a partition from another HD?

jazzbo
2005-07-21, 02:50 PM
No, Partition Magic only merges logical partitions on the same physical drive.

Ted
2005-07-21, 02:52 PM
That's what I thought. Thanks. Like I said, I've never used it and thought that maybe something new was possible.

pete's montreux
2005-07-21, 02:53 PM
Do you mean that Partition Magic will allow you to merge a partition from one HD with a partition from another HD?

edit: nevermind

Ted
2005-07-21, 02:55 PM
Thanks pete's montreux ;)

EDIT: nevermind too :p

(I saw the image. Thanks for posting it ;))

pete's montreux
2005-07-21, 02:55 PM
No, Partition Magic only merges logical partitions on the same physical drive.

So that means, If I split a partition on [for example] the "C" drive into A and B, I could only merge partitions A and B back together, and not merge partition B with my storage drive?

Like this:

A + B = good

A or B + storage = bad

pete's montreux
2005-07-21, 02:56 PM
Thanks pete's montreux ;)

EDIT: nevermind too :p

(I saw the image. Thanks for posting it ;))

Anytime. :D

Ted
2005-07-21, 02:57 PM
Yes, that's what he means.

pete's montreux
2005-07-21, 03:03 PM
Yes, that's what he means.

Ok!

I guess I'm going to have to download the program on one of the other four computers in my house and make the diskettes through there. I can do that, right?

Ted
2005-07-21, 03:43 PM
Yes you can, but it won't contain the boot/partition information that is on your HD that you may want to recover. I don't know exactly what the rescue disk looks for when booting. Best thing to do, if possible, is to install a floppy drive now. It'll make things a lot easier if you need it later.

Are you absolutely sure Partition Magic won't allow you to make a rescue CD? I'm thinking that when it asks you if you want to make one or not, that you can answer "yes" and then it'll ask you to navigate to the drive before it saves the rescue data.

A lot of computers are being made now, without floppy drives. I'm assuming you have a newer version of PM. A lot of newer programs are taking into account the fact that floppy drives may not be present and are giving the opportunity to make bootable rescue CDs instead. You might want to check again to be sure and to save yourself a lot of trouble down the road.

EDIT: Some programs make a "rescue disk" that is simply a boot floppy that you boot from so that you can run their software from the command line to use that particular program. In other words, it is not proprietary to that program. I'm not sure if PM does this or not.

jazzbo
2005-07-21, 04:04 PM
So that means, If I split a partition on [for example] the "C" drive into A and B, I could only merge partitions A and B back together, and not merge partition B with my storage drive?

Like this:

A + B = good

A or B + storage = bad

Not only that, but A + B = bad. You don't want to use Partition Magic to merge a partition with an operating system installed on it and from your example A would still have the operating system; here are the notes on the merge tool:
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/powerquest.nsf/56d21993ad4e6baa88256e91005066ad/c2ecf548c10e070088256e75007ca268?OpenDocument&prod=PartitionMagic&ver=8.0&src=sg&pcode=pmagic&svy=&csm=no

Note the frequent warnings.

pete's montreux
2005-07-21, 04:28 PM
Yes you can, but it won't contain the boot/partition information that is on your HD that you may want to recover. I don't know exactly what the rescue disk looks for when booting. Best thing to do, if possible, is to install a floppy drive now. It'll make things a lot easier if you need it later.

Are you absolutely sure Partition Magic won't allow you to make a rescue CD? I'm thinking that when it asks you if you want to make one or not, that you can answer "yes" and then it'll ask you to navigate to the drive before it saves the rescue data.

A lot of computers are being made now, without floppy drives. I'm assuming you have a newer version of PM. A lot of newer programs are taking into account the fact that floppy drives may not be present and are giving the opportunity to make bootable rescue CDs instead. You might want to check again to be sure and to save yourself a lot of trouble down the road.

EDIT: Some programs make a "rescue disk" that is simply a boot floppy that you boot from so that you can run their software from the command line to use that particular program. In other words, it is not proprietary to that program. I'm not sure if PM does this or not.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/pete_rock/misc/rescuediskette.jpg

Drive "F" doesn't even exist!

pete's montreux
2005-07-21, 04:30 PM
Not only that, but A + B = bad. You don't want to use Partition Magic to merge a partition with an operating system installed on it and from your example A would still have the operating system; here are the notes on the merge tool:
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/powerquest.nsf/56d21993ad4e6baa88256e91005066ad/c2ecf548c10e070088256e75007ca268?OpenDocument&prod=PartitionMagic&ver=8.0&src=sg&pcode=pmagic&svy=&csm=no

Note the frequent warnings.

Thanks. I'll look it over. I'm not sure that I'll ever have to merge the drives back together, though.

TheMamba
2005-07-21, 04:44 PM
Pete: Why are you using Partition Magic in the first place?

I've dabbled with it but for have never really found much utility in using it. I just partition my drives with XP, format them, and live with it.

Just curious I suppose...

Ted
2005-07-21, 04:53 PM
Pete - Try inserting a disk and browsing to your burner. See if it'll make the CD.

Pete: Why are you using Partition Magic in the first place?

I've dabbled with it but for have never really found much utility in using it. I just partition my drives with XP, format them, and live with it.

Just curious I suppose...I suggested it based on many people I know who sing it's praises. It's easier to suggest the program than it is to explain why partitioning can be more trouble than it's worth - because once I mention that, it causes A LOT of debate and I don't care to repeat the facts any more on the subject. Partitioning is not bad, but it is not necessary. I just make a folder instead. If you're worried about fragmentation of the swap file, defrag regularly. Other than that, there is no advantage to be gained by putting the OS on a seperate partition.

pete's montreux
2005-07-21, 06:07 PM
Pete - Try inserting a disk and browsing to your burner. See if it'll make the CD.

I suggested it based on many people I know who sing it's praises. It's easier to suggest the program than it is to explain why partitioning can be more trouble than it's worth - because once I mention that, it causes A LOT of debate and I don't care to repeat the facts any more on the subject. Partitioning is not bad, but it is not necessary. I just make a folder instead. If you're worried about fragmentation of the swap file, defrag regularly. Other than that, there is no advantage to be gained by putting the OS on a seperate partition.

I thought of browsing for the CD drive, but it says "The Specified folder: 'E:\' is invalid, incomplete, or write protected. Please type a full path with a drive letter, for example:'C:\APPS'.

I don't use my main drive for anything, and it's got 70GB of free space. I'd much rather leave 15GB for the main drive, and create a new partition for some extra storage, since the 160GB is getting a little full. Plus, it looks prettier.

TheMamba
2005-07-21, 08:44 PM
Partitioning is not bad, but it is not necessary. I just make a folder instead. If you're worried about fragmentation of the swap file, defrag regularly. Other than that, there is no advantage to be gained by putting the OS on a seperate partition.

That was kind of my point too. ;) If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If you truly have your heart set on having the nice clean partition look, put your Windows XP disc in the drive, boot from the CD and reinstall Windows. It will allow you to partition that drive right before you install. If you're thinking of mucking around with Partition Magic, I'd guess you have enough computer literacy to do the Windows install route too.

And, to the best of my knowledge, the swap file doesn't get fragmented.

Do the Defrag analysis on the drive where your swap file is. See that green patch? That's your swap file.

pete's montreux
2005-07-21, 08:55 PM
That was kind of my point too. ;) If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If you truly have your heart set on having the nice clean partition look, put your Windows XP disc in the drive, boot from the CD and reinstall Windows. It will allow you to partition that drive right before you install. If you're thinking of mucking around with Partition Magic, I'd guess you have enough computer literacy to do the Windows install route too.

And, to the best of my knowledge, the swap file doesn't get fragmented.

Do the Defrag analysis on the drive where your swap file is. See that green patch? That's your swap file.

I don't have the Windows XP disc. I'll ask around to my friends and see if they have one.

I didn't think Partition Magic was going to be such a pain in the dick.

Ted
2005-07-21, 09:00 PM
Pete - looks like you're out of luck on the CD too. If the only reason you want to partition is to make it look "pretty", I can understand that, but it's really not worth the possible troubles. Don't get me wrong. Partitions are not trouble in and of themselves. It's when you have a problem with one (or more) partitions, that you begin to see where the trouble lies. For one, it's harder to recover data from a bad partition than it is from a single partitioned drive. You can think of a drive that has more than one partition as having more "parts". The more parts you have in something, the more than "can" go wrong with it (but not necessarily will).

That was kind of my point too. ;) If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If you truly have your heart set on having the nice clean partition look, put your Windows XP disc in the drive, boot from the CD and reinstall Windows. It will allow you to partition that drive right before you install. If you're thinking of mucking around with Partition Magic, I'd guess you have enough computer literacy to do the Windows install route too.

And, to the best of my knowledge, the swap file doesn't get fragmented.

Do the Defrag analysis on the drive where your swap file is. See that green patch? That's your swap file.If I said "you" in that post, I didn't actually mean you, Mamba. Yeah, Windows can do it too, but it's easier to use PM once the OS is installed. Some people just refuse to reinstall Windows unless their life depends on it - and even THEN it's hard for them do actually understand that it sometimes needs to be done.

As for the swap file, true - it doesn't get fragmented, but try telling that to the many people who've argued with me that it does. I just concede and give them that "fact" ;)

At risk of a long debate (that I will not participate in again) - Long story short, no matter how many partitions you have and no matter whether the OS is on it's own partition or not, the arm of the HD has to cover the same ground to store/retrieve data. It doesn't look at which partition it's on. Partitions are only known to the software. In fact, in many instances, the arm has to cover MORE ground to go back and forth between the OS's partition and any of the others, depending on where they physically are located on the HD. Fragmentation occurs at the same rate on many partitions as it does on one.

pete's montreux
2005-07-21, 09:09 PM
Pete - looks like you're out of luck on the CD too. If the only reason you want to partition is to make it look "pretty", I can understand that, but it's really not worth the possible troubles. Don't get me wrong. Partitions are not trouble in and of themselves. It's when you have a problem with one (or more) partitions, that you begin to see where the trouble lies. For one, it's harder to recover data from a bad partition than it is from a single partitioned drive. You can think of a drive that has more than one partition as having more "parts". The more parts you have in something, the more than "can" go wrong with it (but not necessarily will).

If I said "you" in that post, I didn't actually mean you, Mamba. Yeah, Windows can do it too, but it's easier to use PM once the OS is installed. Some people just refuse to reinstall Windows unless their life depends on it - and even THEN it's hard for them do actually understand that it sometimes needs to be done.

As for the swap file, true - it doesn't get fragmented, but try telling that to the many people who've argued with me that it does. I just concede and give them that "fact" ;)

At risk of a long debate (that I will not participate in again) - Long story short, no matter how many partitions you have and no matter whether the OS is on it's own partition or not, the arm of the HD has to cover the same ground to store/retrieve data. It doesn't look at which partition it's on. Partitions are only known to the software. In fact, in many instances, the arm has to cover MORE ground to go back and forth between the OS's partition and any of the others, depending on where they physically are located on the HD. Fragmentation occurs at the same rate on many partitions as it does on one.

I sounded really gay with the "pretty" thing, didn't I?

Ted
2005-07-21, 09:18 PM
I sounded really gay with the "pretty" thing, didn't I?Not really. Like I said, I know what you meant (or rather HOW you meant it). Sometimes that's the best way to describe something. I usually put it in quotes, if I have to use a "gay" word like that.

pete's montreux
2005-07-21, 09:26 PM
Not really. Like I said, I know what you meant (or rather HOW you meant it). Sometimes that's the best way to describe something. I usually put it in quotes, if I have to use a "gay" word like that.

I'm incredibly anal. It's a curse, really.

TheMamba
2005-07-21, 09:30 PM
I sounded really gay with the "pretty" thing, didn't I?

Yeah... :roflol: Just kidding. But I know what you meant by it.

Computers are like cars...you get guys that swear by one way and others that swear by a totally different school of thought. Some guys like using Partition Magic...I just assume a complete format and reinstall. It actually forces me to get rid of a lot of the shit on my hard drive that accumulates over time. And, it's always nice and refreshing to have a clean Windows install every once in awhile.

Ted: No offense taking. Just talkin' shop. :D

jazzbo
2005-07-21, 09:51 PM
As for the swap file, true - it doesn't get fragmented, but try telling that to the many people who've argued with me that it does. I just concede and give them that "fact" ;)


sigh. If you allow Windows to dynamically allocate the swap file, there is a very good chance it will fragment under heavy use. Only if you set it to a static size (not a good idea, IMO) it will not fragment.

But if you're current 'green patch' is X big, and Windows needs X+1 of swap tomorrow there is no guarantee there it will expand on the end of that, or that the location is even available. So fragmentation is certainly likely.

Now the real life application of this is that people rarely max out the swap file (then again the default is enormous if I remember right) -- but there is no reason why it couldn't fragment -- but I think that's why you folks are reporting not seeing fragmentation.

I know some people who tweak their machines to the nth degree, who move their swap into a wholly separate partition into the first area on the disk, and then create the bootable partition with the OS after that, and then create the partitions for applications and/or data. This allows for speedier access to the swap and more or less eliminates the possibility of the swap fragmenting.

pete's montreux
2005-07-21, 10:02 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/pete_rock/misc/mycomputer.jpg

Say hello to my new drive! [in my best Tony Montana voice]

'K'

Ted
2005-07-21, 10:33 PM
I'm incredibly anal. It's a curse, really.So what you're saying is that you're anally cursed? :hmm:

Stay away from me, please http://users.adelphia.net/~tje/TTD/smilies/fart.gif

pete's montreux
2005-07-21, 10:43 PM
So what you're saying is that you're anally cursed? :hmm:

Stay away from me, please http://users.adelphia.net/~tje/TTD/smilies/fart.gif

I totally set myself up for that one. :lol

Ted
2005-07-21, 10:43 PM
sigh. If you allow Windows to dynamically allocate the swap file, there is a very good chance it will fragment under heavy use. Only if you set it to a static size (not a good idea, IMO) it will not fragment.

But if you're current 'green patch' is X big, and Windows needs X+1 of swap tomorrow there is no guarantee there it will expand on the end of that, or that the location is even available. So fragmentation is certainly likely.

Now the real life application of this is that people rarely max out the swap file (then again the default is enormous if I remember right) -- but there is no reason why it couldn't fragment -- but I think that's why you folks are reporting not seeing fragmentation.

I know some people who tweak their machines to the nth degree, who move their swap into a wholly separate partition into the first area on the disk, and then create the bootable partition with the OS after that, and then create the partitions for applications and/or data. This allows for speedier access to the swap and more or less eliminates the possibility of the swap fragmenting.Technically, you have a point and "got" me, but the swap file is only "temporary" storage and any fragmentation of data that occurs within the confined space on the hard drive that it occupies is negligible because the data it stores is indeed dynamic.

Before this goes any further, I'm going to stop right here because you seem to know what you're talking about too and I think in the end we'll probably end up "agreeing".

edro
2005-07-21, 10:55 PM
So, i'm totally new to this whole situation. am i able to download some phat dvds here? i have to say i've never heard about this bit torrent thing what is it? i's lost can anybody halp a brother out? :) :hmm:

pete's montreux
2005-07-21, 10:58 PM
So, i'm totally new to this whole situation. am i able to download some phat dvds here? i have to say i've never heard about this bit torrent thing what is it? i's lost can anybody halp a brother out? :) :hmm:

You're better off creating a new topic.

Ted
2005-07-22, 01:06 AM
So, i'm totally new to this whole situation. am i able to download some phat dvds here? i have to say i've never heard about this bit torrent thing what is it? i's lost can anybody halp a brother out? :) :hmm:Since you're totally new to it, I won't post links but rather suggest that you read the complete FAQ from the drop-down menu at the top of the page. I know there's a lot, but there's no sense in repeating it all here. You'll also learn about other ways to trade in the FAQ.

If after reading it you have any further questions, please feel free to open a topic of your own to ask questions. It's more likely your questions will get noticed that way ;)

Welcome, and enjoy your stay :)