Questions about Superseeding

[tgunn2760]

What is it? How does it work? Does it work with utorrent?

[rspencer]

Seeds out the files/directory/show once basically. Instead of numerous requests for various pieces, superseeding sends out each piece once...so each piece can then be spread amongst the leechers while the seeder sends out more new pieces. This can speed things up because the seeder doesn't have to seed out the same pieces repeatedly, but it really depends on the number of peers. In practice, it's not always faster.

utorrent does it.

[jabulon]

In practice, it's not always faster.


No it might not be faster (in time), but like you said it will seed each block only once (in principal). So in order to upload a torrent of let's say 1GB, you will upload only 1GB of data (may be a little bit more) in order to get the torrent seeded. So if you are worried about the amount of data you upload (when there is a cap for example) you should use this feature.
If you don't use the super-seeding feature the amount of data needed to get the torrent seeded will be (much) more than 1GB. In this case a block can be send to multiple leechers. The speed of super seeding depends on the amount of leechers, their upload speed to other leechers, if a leech is firewalled or not, etc.

This is how I use the super seeding feature. When I start uploading a torrent I am not using the super seeding feature. Only when there are more leechers connecting (10 or so) I set it to super seeding. Besides the super seeding I also use an ip blocker. Leechers who are firewalled and the ones with a lousy ratio I block. They are the ones that bring the overall speed down.

[tgunn2760]

I can't understand how some people can seed at say 200 kbps, or well above it, when I max out at about 120 kbps with cable. I can download at 2 MB/second but the upload speed is slow.

How do you turn on the super seed feature in utorrent?

[rspencer]

http://www.google.com/search?sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=off&site=&source=hp&q=superseeding+utorrent&btnG=Search

[rspencer]

Plenty of info available through Google-searching. Especially at the utorrent forums. Don't have a copy of utorrent on this PC, so can't look at the moment. IIRC, it's under options, and is a checkbox labeled "Initial Seeding."

[dwarfinside]

If I remember correctly: when you open a new torrent in uTorrent (seeding a new show), click on the "advanced" options tab. This window appears after you download the torrent file. Check the box marked "initial seeding". While you are in there, you should "disable DHT" (site requirement) - I think you check a box marked "private torrent" to do this.
Using this option does seem to decrease the amount I upload until other seeds are available. Seems good when the folks you are uploading to are willing to seed once they are finished. Gets everything going faster.

[tgunn2760]

If I remember correctly: when you open a new torrent in uTorrent (seeding a new show), click on the "advanced" options tab. This window appears after you download the torrent file. Check the box marked "initial seeding". While you are in there, you should "disable DHT" (site requirement) - I think you check a box marked "private torrent" to do this.
Using this option does seem to decrease the amount I upload until other seeds are available. Seems good when the folks you are uploading to are willing to seed once they are finished. Gets everything going faster.

I haven't been able to find "initial seeding", I guess I will have to look for it the next time I seed a show.

If I understood this right, super seeding should get you a higher upload speed because the initial seeder (in this case me) would seed only to the leecher with the highest upload speed. And he in turn would upload to the rest of the swarm.

[jabulon]

Hope this picture wil help you find the superseeding option:

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb449/jabulon/superseeding.jpg

If I understood this right, super seeding should get you a higher upload speed because the initial seeder (in this case me) would seed only to the leecher with the highest upload speed. And he in turn would upload to the rest of the swarm.
Nope. Superseeding is a feature that attempts to minimize the amount of data which must be uploaded by the original seed until the first completion of a downloading peer. So it is about the amount of data being transmitted and not about upload speed. The intent of strictly limiting the uploading of duplicate pieces is that a super seeder will upload fewer bits than a standard seeder before peers begin to complete, though it does not necessarily mean that the initial seed will complete in less time. Duration until the first completion of a downloader during a super seed is limited by the upload rate of the peers connected to the super seeder.

If you have a spare moment I would recommend this site as a read: http://www.utorrent.com/forum/index.php

[Mandrax]

jabulon is exactly right, superseed has nothing to do with speed, it only helps during the initial seeding period, avoiding the same chunk to be uploaded more than once by the seeder. Especially if the seeder is considerably slower than a bunch out of the group of leechers, superseed mode can be of great benefit.
But .... leechers with uTorrent clients version 2.0 and higher are not able to establish a working connection to seeders in superseed-mode by themselves, it only works for these clients if the connection is established by the seeder. Older uTorrent versions work fine, as well as all versions of Azureus, Transmission, Mainline and many more.
This has been mentioned several times at uTorrent board as an issue and is met with ignorance since more than a year. Majority of people are using uTorrent 2.x, implications are obvious.

A little boring video which demonstrates above
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x22vuFZrfMc
The letter "R" in the column "T" stand for "connection established by the leecher"

[tgunn2760]

Then there is no point in my using superseed mode. I thought about doing it increase my upload speed, I don't care how much I upload, in fact, uploading more data is better for me as it helps my ratio.

How do some people seed at such high speeds? I have seen seeders at 200-500 kbps upload speeds. Can you turn your high download speed to
high upload, or does it depend on what you have, like T3 or something like that?

[rspencer]

It just depends on how big your pipe is. Turning down your download speed can help, to an extent. It will allow more bandwidth for uploading, but turning it too far down will reduce the peers you connect to, and then that of course will limit your uploading.

[Homebrew101]

I experimented with the "Initial seeding" function last week when I upped some dvds and the one time I used that setting it seemed to take almost twice as long for anyone to complete the download so I abandoned that idea :)


I am capped at about 55kBs for upload speed and I didn't download anything at the times

[Mandrax]

Sometimes wonder happen :clap:
After 16 months the developers of uTorrent finally managed to eliminate an error introduced with v.2
Version 2.2.1 is now allowing leechers to download from a seeder in super-seed mode

[P A U L]

To me, it sounds more problematic than doing anybody any favors...

What if someone comes on board as a leech (the only one w/ a specific hash or series of hashes) & abandons the torrent for good ?

[rspencer]

That part would be seeded out again if no one has it.
Superseeding doesn't mean a piece only gets seeded once, but that only what is not in the swarm gets seeded.
So if a piece is seeded, one person gets it, and then drops off before passing it along, utorrent sees it as that piece had not yet been seeded.

[P A U L]

So then your client scans all other clients to make sure that none of the hashes dropped off ? :hmm:

Seems like it wouldn't be very efficient...

To me it looks like it's only to make the seeder seed as little as possible. Not really considering anyone else. IDK...