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jefferson
2004-11-27, 12:16 PM
Greetings,
Thanks for the forum. I just had a torrent pulled because, apparantly, i did not follow the video seeding guidelines. Could someone please help me clarify what i did wrong?

The thread sits in the "pulled" folder here - http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?p=15511#post15511

I see that the identified problems were as follows:

5. All seeds must contain a complete and accurate lineage.
What would the proper lineage be if i simply extracted all files directly from the DVD onto my HD, into a titled folder?

6. All seeds must contain a correct md5 checksum of the contents of the VIDEO_TS folder.
I did have an md5 posted in the thread. Perhaps i did this incorrectly.

7. All seeds must include the video system (NTSC or PAL), audio codec and bitrate information in the info file.
I identified NTSC, which i believe to be the video system. I am not sure how to determine the video bitrate, audio codec, and audio bitrate, however. How do i do this?

Any help is greatly appreciated. I would like to get this down so i can seed video in the future.

Regards,
jefferson

RainDawg
2004-11-27, 01:14 PM
5. You need to make a lineage that contains the most information you can give it. In this case, it's not much, Aud-Shot > super 8mm film > VHSx > DVDR. Just something that people can glance at and figure out what this has been through, to the best of your knowledge.

6. This part looks fine to me already, I think you've done it right

7. NTSC is indeed the video system. We've asked for people to include the audio and video bitrates, and it's fairly simple to get these with a program called "GSpot". Here's a link to a quick tutorial I put up to help people get this information from their DVD:
http://www.audiophilia.net/gspot.htm

I really appreciate your desire to seed here, and I'll help you make sure you get everything needed to get this seed rolling. Understand we're being a bit more picky here than other sites, but also hoping that we'll gain some respect in the community as a consequence.

jefferson
2004-11-27, 04:19 PM
Thanks RainDawg. I've given it another shot. Please let me know if things still are not right.

http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?p=15639#post15639

mxz440fan
2004-11-27, 05:01 PM
Anyone else find it redundant to include md5's :confused:
Personally, I think its bogus. BT already checks it. No one includes MD5's when they burn a dvd. Its just not necessary.

As for audio codec information. This is video. Does anyone really care what codec's are needed for your dvd player to play it?


I'm really hesitant to start seeding here just because of how strict things appear to be with video. Back on the groove, as long as it was seeded correctly and you had the best version being torrented...no one gave a shit if you didn't include every last person who had it before you. [/rant]

RainDawg
2004-11-27, 05:08 PM
Anyone else find it redundant to include md5's :confused:
Personally, I think its bogus. BT already checks it. No one includes MD5's when they burn a dvd. Its just not necessary.
No, but what it will do is permit people to check if they have the version that was seeded here. Part of our goal is to provide some traceability back to our seeds, and the only way to do this is to store an md5-hash of the files so future traders can check back. I personally don't check them after downloading the DVD because, as you said, BT does it. But, when seeding, it's just good practice to start providing some kind of ability to check seeds further on down the line back to TTD.

As for audio codec information. This is video. Does anyone really care what codec's are needed for your dvd player to play it?
Yes, people do care. Just like MP3, WAV, etc, there are different audio codecs people use. I personally won't bother if it's a low bitrate MP2 with the DVD, but am more likely to grab it if I see LPCM. Simply put, this site was built on the concept of attracting people who DO care about nitpicky stuff like this.



I'm really hesitant to start seeding here just because of how strict things appear to be with video. Back on the groove, as long as it was seeded correctly and you had the best version being torrented...no one gave a shit if you didn't include every last person who had it before you.
No one said anything about asking for every last person who had it before you, just about giving some complete information about what you have before seeding.

RainDawg
2004-11-27, 05:10 PM
Thanks RainDawg. I've given it another shot. Please let me know if things still are not right.

http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?p=15639#post15639
Looks good to me now. Thanks for posting this. I've posted in that thread as well. :)

Rider
2004-11-27, 11:15 PM
Anyone else find it redundant to include md5's :confused:
Personally, I think its bogus. BT already checks it. No one includes MD5's when they burn a dvd. Its just not necessary.

As for audio codec information. This is video. Does anyone really care what codec's are needed for your dvd player to play it?


I'm really hesitant to start seeding here just because of how strict things appear to be with video. Back on the groove, as long as it was seeded correctly and you had the best version being torrented...no one gave a shit if you didn't include every last person who had it before you. [/rant]

Theres always EZT, we didn't make this site with everyone in mind.

mxz440fan
2004-11-28, 11:34 AM
Theres always EZT, we didn't make this site with everyone in mind.The reason I won't seed at EZT is because theres no community. I'm a firm believer in the community approach, as I feel the only reason contemporary bands allow DVD Trading is because of the communities that spawn from it. EZT is actively trying to destroy the community, and that sort of pisses me off.

I just sort of miss the groove, almost everyone was happy there. :cry:

:lol


EDIT: 100th post! :banger2:

wazoo2u
2004-11-28, 12:09 PM
The reason I won't seed at EZT is because theres no community. I'm a firm believer in the community approach, as I feel the only reason contemporary bands allow DVD Trading is because of the communities that spawn from it. EZT is actively trying to destroy the community, and that sort of pisses me off.
I don't particularly see where EZT is trying to destroy anything. They have a large amount of active seeders, but are overwhelmed with trying to do quality control. I see plenty of community interaction in the comments left with the seed announcements. I'm sure there's lots of PM's exchanged as well. It's likely that some people who download and upload at EZT will get together in other forums, just like they do here.

TTD has a Mission Statement. EZT doesn't. That's the basic difference.

How is EZT trying to destroy their community ?

RainDawg
2004-11-28, 12:24 PM
Well, the basic difference is that we have a proper forum, where they've opted to keep it just to a tracker.

The major problem I have with them is their complete inability to enforce any QC. I still download a lot of stuff from there, but find myself spending less and less time looking through stuff as the average quality of each seed decreases.

diggrd
2004-11-28, 05:41 PM
Well, the basic difference is that we have a proper forum, where they've opted to keep it just to a tracker.

The major problem I have with them is their complete inability to enforce any QC. I still download a lot of stuff from there, but find myself spending less and less time looking through stuff as the average quality of each seed decreases. Same here, although if a known seeder puts up something I want, I grab it with some confidence at least. Ratio enforcement seems to have forced quality downwards along with the growth. The idea that some bands try to encourage a community with interaction between traders on more than a cursory level is a good thing for the band as well as music traders.

mxz440fan
2004-11-28, 08:02 PM
How is EZT trying to destroy their community ?Its not their community. They don't care about community, which is why they're trying to destroy it.
Unfortunately, unchecked, bands will start banning dvd trading/seeding because the community is gone. People would rather just click once and get something then to actually have to interact, and EZT takes advantage of that...which bites us seeders in the ass, because it does promote leaching.

wazoo2u
2004-11-28, 10:24 PM
Its not their community. They don't care about community, which is why they're trying to destroy it.
Unfortunately, unchecked, bands will start banning dvd trading/seeding because the community is gone. People would rather just click once and get something then to actually have to interact, and EZT takes advantage of that...which bites us seeders in the ass, because it does promote leaching.I just don't happen to agree. It's not a big deal that I don't agree, I just feel differently. I don't think that constant interaction is necessary for people to participate in a community. They can contribute by reading discussion about torrents they're downloading or thinking of downloading. They can seed something without getting into a big discussion. I'm seeding 5 or 6 torrents at EZT almost constantly, but don't get involved too much in thread comments, I'm just trying to keep a respectable share ratio.

I think you might be over reacting to the EZT shortcomings (of which there are many), when you compare what is being attempted here. And this concept that "leeching" is somehow hurtful is another misconception in the BT community. I'll state this again. Bram Cohen did not design Bit Torrent to be a self sustaining distribution medium. He intended it to be a short term yet effective means of distributing stuff to a group (small or large) over a short period of time. "Leeching" in BT terms is the same as "Peering", which means that EVERYONE who's downloading is leeching from the swarm. As far as "People would rather just click once and get something then to actually have to interact", well count me in. I OFTEN just click and download without getting into a discussion about the torrent. It's the MUSIC that I want to hear, not necessarily the BS, tho I do try to post a thank you more often than not. I'll also point out flaws and lineage mistakes if I catch them, in the interests of attempting to keep the trading pool a bit cleaner. I think that puts me squarely IN the community, yet I keep a fairly low profile at EZT.

I don't understand your unfounded fear about "bands will ban dvd trading/seeding if the community is gone". Bands don't care about community. They care about making music, making money, protecting their intellectual property and (hopefully) care about their fans being treated fairly (all of these not in any particular order). There are even bands who don't subscribe to all these tenents who would ban stuff IF they found out it was being distributed....

How does any of this relate to the EZT community ??? I'm sorry man.. nothing personal, but I just don't see your point. Nothing much has changed at EZT beyond the exponential growth. Lousy QC ratio + unchecked growth = poor average of outstanding material. That's all.

/EOR... have a great nite !

Five
2004-11-28, 10:43 PM
Bands don't care about community. They care about making music, making money, protecting their intellectual property and (hopefully) care about their fans being treated fairly (all of these not in any particular order).
I'm in a band. I care about community as well as these other things you mention... altho mainly our local community of musicians.

Don't bash community, please.

wazoo2u
2004-11-28, 10:47 PM
I'm in a band. I care about community as well as these other things you mention... altho mainly our local community of musicians.

Don't bash community, please.I'm far from "bashing" community. I'm offering a DEFINITION of community. You might not agree, but I'm offering it up.

Plus, it would be nice to stay OT for the thread. The discussion has nothing to do with "if you're in a band, do you care about the community" The discussion is "bands only allow DVD trading BECAUSE they care about the community" I happen to think that the latter statement is naive and self serving. (no offense intended to either of you).

Five
2004-11-28, 10:52 PM
okay

wazoo2u
2004-11-28, 10:55 PM
Sorry I put that edit in there Five... :(

Five
2004-11-28, 11:06 PM
Sorry I put that edit in there Five... :(
That's okay, I am off-topic. It's just when I see you posting "Bands don't care about community" it makes me jump. Please pick up the discussion where it left off...

mxz440fan
2004-11-29, 01:31 AM
That's okay, I am off-topic. It's just when I see you posting "Bands don't care about community" it makes me jump. Please pick up the discussion where it left off...Theres not much discussion left:lol. He's got his view of what a community (isn't) and I've got my definition of what a community (is). I know I'm not changing his mind and he's not changing his :lol

The only other point I could possibly have to throw in is a thread at antsmarching.org where the admin posted (the summary of) a letter/email he recieved from DMB management concerning the DVD Trading scene on the site. Everyone can pretty much imagine what it said. (see my last post :lol)

Five
2004-11-29, 02:06 AM
gotta love those real-world examples :thumbsup

wazoo2u
2004-11-29, 07:31 AM
Theres not much discussion left:lol. He's got his view of what a community (isn't) and I've got my definition of what a community (is). I know I'm not changing his mind and he's not changing his :lol

Once again. What I'm trying to say is that there are different environments where communities can function at with different dynamics. We have SEVERAL communities here at TTD. They don't necessarily fully interact with each other. The same existed at STG. My argument is that you feel somehow that BANDS feel it necessary that there must be a community (who's role isn't defined or understood) to support DVD trading, and I still don't see evidence to support this generalization.

And the funny thing is that I DO feel that community is important to music trading, and this site, but that's NOT what we're discussing.

Let's let it go for now... K ? :)

mxz440fan
2004-11-29, 12:39 PM
The same existed at STG. If it wasn't for the groove falling, I probably never would have known an audio section existed :lol