Why don't you visit the Lounge @ TTD? (public poll)

[paddington]

Please answer the poll and leave any other feedback.

[rspencer]

Don't know that I'd post any less either. :dunno:

[toys]

An excellent point

[Cornelious Jerome Garcia Oppenheimer]

Thanks James.

[toys]

First poll was 10-1 against, with my vote being the only yes.

Current public poll is so far 8-4.

First anonymous poll reflecting the alias using trolls attempting to skew the results in their favor just a little bit?

[paddington]

First poll was 10-1 against, with my vote being the only yes.

Current public poll is so far 8-4.

First anonymous poll reflecting the alias using trolls attempting to skew the results in their favor just a little bit?


do you need a tin foil hat? Maybe different people voted?

It's actually 4 yes, 9 for no at this point.. same # of "No" votes as in the anonymous poll before I closed it.

[ilove2rock]

I dont know that it needs to be moderated so much as people need to stop attacking each other (I am sure that will get me attacked ;))

[chinajoe]

shouldnt this thread be in the lounge?

[paddington]

you would like the thread called "Why don't you visit the Lounge?" to be placed in the lounge? :lol:

I put it here so people who don't usually go in the Lounge might see it.

[Black Dog]

First poll was 10-1 against, with my vote being the only yes.

Current public poll is so far 8-4.

First anonymous poll reflecting the alias using trolls attempting to skew the results in their favor just a little bit?

voter fraud :wtf:......... @TTD :cool:

never...:nono:

[Black Dog]

I've always thought the lounge was supposed to be a little bit dangerous

;)

[ccrider895]

What Reg said.

[donohuer]

I voted no and didn't even know about the first vote. As RSpencer said, I don't know I'd post any less either. Let me ask this; what do you mean by "more actively moderated?" What type of posts/behavior is prompting someone to question whether more moderation is required. I understand that answering that may cause an immediate increase in that type of behavior but I'm curious why there have now been two polls asking this question.

[paddington]

I voted no and didn't even know about the first vote. As RSpencer said, I don't know I'd post any less either. Let me ask this; what do you mean by "more actively moderated?" What type of posts/behavior is prompting someone to question whether more moderation is required. I understand that answering that may cause an immediate increase in that type of behavior but I'm curious why there have now been two polls asking this question.

:wave:

The increased moderation has been proposed by Bill_Kate. He proposes more moderators in there and banning people who deserve it (his words).

There are two polls because the first one I posted was anonymous and some thought the results might be rigged... so I posted one with public votes.

[General Electric]

I'm just getting started with this and my life is hectic. I hope to work into TTD more in the future. There are a wealth of master recordings that will eventually see the light of day and they will first appear on TTD.

[Marc]

Ban TV. He's an asshole troll and has ruined this place.

[AAR.oner]

I voted no and didn't even know about the first vote. As RSpencer said, I don't know I'd post any less either. Let me ask this; what do you mean by "more actively moderated?" What type of posts/behavior is prompting someone to question whether more moderation is required. I understand that answering that may cause an immediate increase in that type of behavior but I'm curious why there have now been two polls asking this question.

incessant trolling/attacks, creating a more predictably hostile environment...which has imo caused a deterioration in both the amount of participants & the quality of participation

i'm not convinced we need more mods for the GD forums, or that we need more "rules" -- simply that the rules in place should be enforced no matter who the person is

[Cornelious Jerome Garcia Oppenheimer]

I voted no and didn't even know about the first vote. As RSpencer said, I don't know I'd post any less either. Let me ask this; what do you mean by "more actively moderated?" What type of posts/behavior is prompting someone to question whether more moderation is required.

The rules (http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/faq.php?faq=what2know#faq_gendiscrules) being followed. And enforced regardless of who is doing it.

At this point the rules are more of a reverse psychology "how to survive the lounge" user guide, than rules. Some staff don't even follow them.


Most of this is common sense, but sometimes it just needs to be put down in writing...

* Lurk for a bit before just jumping right in. It always helps to know the users you will be chatting with a bit before you jump in to post.
* It is not recommended that you post personal photos of yourself unless you don't mind finding yourself photoshopped as a Dancing Chicken. There are some photoshop pros here who welcome the opportunity to practice their skills.
* If someone asks not to have their picture posted, even if they were the one to originally post it here, please respect their wishes and do not post, or link to, their picture.
* Act maturely. Don't rise to inflammatory posts. Remember that your opinion is only your opinion, and other people have a right to disagree with it, just as you have a right to have it. Don't turn a difference of opinion into an insult fest.
* If someone does act immaturely - ignore them! Usually they act that way to get attention. Ignoring them may make them rethink their act.
* Treat each other with respect or how you would like be treated: 'do unto others as you would have them do unto you.'
* Again, if the person is acting disrespectful, usually it is because they want attention. So, the best thing to do is to not give it to them.
* No using an anonymous proxy to hide your identity. No spamming, or advertising.
* Think before you post - http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting.php
* Some common sense rules: no posting personal PMs or emails; no posting another user's full real name or address or phone number or email address or picture.
* No nudity. And please do not swear overly much.
* Do not just decide to attack someone. If someone insulted you a month ago, who cares, we don't want to hear about it. If someone insulted you on another site, we don't care, don't bring it over here or you may be told just how much the others don't want to hear about it. If you don't like another user, fine, then ignore them, but don't continually insult them because the rest of us don't want to hear about it.
* No threats of physical violence.
* No stalking - don't take your personal differences from one thread to another. And especially don't take it out of The Lounge.
* No creating accounts under another name (an alias) just to harass specific people.
* Do not disrespect the moderators. They are volunteers and do the best that they can, If you can do a better job, go start your own site and moderate how you want there.

Failure to follow these rules may get you banned from the discussion forums for varying lengths of time. Depending on how many times you've already been warned (banned from these forums), you may be banned anywhere from a day, a week, a month, or permanently (or anywhere in between). This is up to moderator discretion. You may PM that moderator to discuss and resolve the issue. However, insulting them in that PM may not be in your best interests.

The Mods reserve the right to remove any posts that they feel are offensive or against your terms of registration.


modified 2007-08-21, Added rule regarding creating alias accounts to harass people.


I understand that answering that may cause an immediate increase in that type of behavior but I'm curious why there have now been two polls asking this question.

Anonymous - vs- Public

[thebigguy]

Wouldn`t this be more interesting if you limited voting to people with under a certain amount of posts. What`s stopping them from posting.

[daddyray]

polls lack "OUR" option as well as lacking a no change option

I vote SIR

[Cornelious Jerome Garcia Oppenheimer]

:lol4:

Every time I hear a choice of a couple of things and I don't really like any of them. That is what I hear in my head, one of these days I am going to accidentally say it out loud

[The Wicker Man]

Great, more governing always fixes everything.

[thebigguy]

Great, more governing always fixes everything.

Historically, it has.:wave:

[Cornelious Jerome Garcia Oppenheimer]

Great, more governing always fixes everything.
Do I need to say it......
A handful of people have already said it in your sig




Brian, you have modded before. Do you not see any problem with the current rules and the way they are enforced, or even the layout of the sub-forums?

Everyone keeps thinking that it is a whole new set of rules that I am suggesting. Only a couple of tweaks to the already existing set of rules and blanket enforcement regardless of who it is breaking them. And to look into the layout of the sub-forums and mod powers within certain areas, as opposed to every mod popping in and enforcing the lounge rules how they interpret them and often different than the actual mod there and also some are regularly breaking them there too.

This is a logical place to start if anything is to be done. Added mods only if it gets to be too much, which is likely because whenever any changes are made, people like to oppose it and go the other way.

[Black Dog]

Historically, it has.:wave:

I think the machine has gotten bigger, not better ..

[paddington]

Everyone keeps thinking that it is a whole new set of rules that I am suggesting. Only a couple of tweaks to the already existing set of rules and blanket enforcement regardless of who it is breaking them. And to look into the layout of the sub-forums and mod powers within certain areas, as opposed to every mod popping in and enforcing the lounge rules how they interpret them and often different than the actual mod there and also some are regularly breaking them there too.

.


I think Bullet enforces the rules that are there, but applies them to each case, based on merit, rather than blanket enforcement.

I do think that method works best. Policy is different than straight law and strict enforcement discourages participation in every instance I have seen.

You keep referring to mods that pop in to the lounge and enforce rules in different ways... as far as I know, Bullet does 99.9% of any mod actions in the Lounge. The staff generally does a very good job of staying to our assigned areas when it comes to pressing buttons.

Is this just a perception you have or do you have specific instances where that is happening on a regular basis? :hmm:

[Cornelious Jerome Garcia Oppenheimer]

I think Bullet enforces the rules that are there, but applies them to each case, based on merit, rather than blanket enforcement.

I do think that method works best. Policy is different than straight law and strict enforcement discourages participation in every instance I have seen.

You keep referring to mods that pop in to the lounge and enforce rules in different ways... as far as I know, Bullet does 99.9% of any mod actions in the Lounge. The staff generally does a very good job of staying to our assigned areas when it comes to pressing buttons.

Is this just a perception you have or do you have specific instances where that is happening on a regular basis? :hmm:

It is my perception, based on what I see. I think bringing them up and looking at each instance would not be productive. Again, I am not trying to attack any one mod/admin. It is hard to present the case for what I am suggesting without coming across as just saying you guys are not doing a good job. You are, but it seems a little lax and I see no harm in bringing up the suggestions and talking about it.

You do not have to look very far too see instances of these rules being a normal practice as opposed to something addressed and removed.


# Treat each other with respect or how you would like be treated: 'do unto others as you would have them do unto you.'
# Again, if the person is acting disrespectful, usually it is because they want attention. So, the best thing to do is to not give it to them.
# No using an anonymous proxy to hide your identity. No spamming, or advertising.
# Think before you post - http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting.php
# Some common sense rules: no posting personal PMs or emails; no posting another user's full real name or address or phone number or email address or picture.
# No nudity. And please do not swear overly much.
# Do not just decide to attack someone. If someone insulted you a month ago, who cares, we don't want to hear about it. If someone insulted you on another site, we don't care, don't bring it over here or you may be told just how much the others don't want to hear about it. If you don't like another user, fine, then ignore them, but don't continually insult them because the rest of us don't want to hear about it.
# No threats of physical violence.
# No stalking - don't take your personal differences from one thread to another. And especially don't take it out of The Lounge.
# No creating accounts under another name (an alias) just to harass specific people.
# Do not disrespect the moderators. They are volunteers and do the best that they can, If you can do a better job, go start your own site and moderate how you want there.


It is just an opinion, and my perspective.

I had a hand in creating the lounge, I had a hand in keeping it hands off for the most part and not wanting it to be heavy handed, now I am just looking at it and pointing out what I see.

I still don't want it heavy handed. Controlled chaos makes for interesting forum, it is just a little out of hand IMO.

I hope at the very least the notice, the thread, the poll, will at least let people know that not everyone likes the current state. And maybe gather some support from new users.

I actually think the lounge has been running better and a bit more active in a positive way since it is being talked about again. Some of the usual suspects are a bit more chill. The thread is a good thing, regardless of staff changes. The users will at think about it more. Most would not post the crap under their primary user account, because they are either nice or concerned with others thinking they are. They just get caught up with what is allowed. When in Rome, you know.

As long as the topic is being discussed and is not allowed to die down as it has in the past, most will self-regulate because they do not want to be called out about it.

I am still truly for a hands off approach to modding, you just need to be really creative in how you handle the situations when they arise. Enforce rules evenly, and don't allow staff to break them, the lounge would be fine as is. It just needs more positive support from staff.

[Zoooma]

I dont know that it needs to be moderated so much as people need to stop attacking each other

Sometimes in a debate, when a person has no true argument, they'll just attack because they want to win and advance their agenda no matter what so the only thing they can do is marginalize the other person. These people and some others have no sense of decency, they simply do not know what mutual respect is all about, or they have so much hatred in them that they don't care. They're sad people who should be felt sorry for. Sometimes something like a fun and normally functioning forum can be quite uncomfortable and even downright unpleasant because of types like that. Some of them will not stop with their attacks. They can't. It's a shangri-la unicorn-land dream that people will stop attacking each other. Those "people" definitely need to be told what's what and shown the door if necessary.

[thebigguy]

Sometimes in a debate, when a person has no true argument, they'll just attack because they want to win and advance their agenda no matter what so the only thing they can do is marginalize the other person. These people and some others have no sense of decency, they simply do not know what mutual respect is all about, or they have so much hatred in them that they don't care. They're sad people who should be felt sorry for. Sometimes something like a fun and normally functioning forum can be quite uncomfortable and even downright unpleasant because of those people. They definitely need to be told what's what and shown the door if necessary.
Nice ratio.

[paddington]

I think Bullet enforces the rules that are there, but applies them to each case, based on merit, rather than blanket enforcement.

I do think that method works best. Policy is different than straight law and strict enforcement discourages participation in every instance I have seen.

You keep referring to mods that pop in to the lounge and enforce rules in different ways... as far as I know, Bullet does 99.9% of any mod actions in the Lounge. The staff generally does a very good job of staying to our assigned areas when it comes to pressing buttons.

Is this just a perception you have or do you have specific instances where that is happening on a regular basis? :hmm:

It is my perception, based on what I see. I think bringing them up and looking at each instance would not be productive.

It is just an opinion, and my perspective.


I hope you'll take my word for it that Bullet is pretty much the sole moderator of the Lounge. It is rare that any of the rest of us push buttons in there, specifically because it is better to have a single-minded approach so people know what to expect.

The only recent exception I can think of is Wolf, who pulled some shennanigans over the last few months. That was discussed and dealt with, productively imo. That hasn't happened since the start of the year, that I can think of. Maybe that is what you are referring to?

[Homebrew101]

feel free to delete this post but I'm beginning to think if we ban bill_kate, the appearance of any problems might evaporate :lol:


except for all of the trolling alias accounts, you could ban those also IMO

[Cornelious Jerome Garcia Oppenheimer]

I hope you'll take my word for it that Bullet is pretty much the sole moderator of the Lounge. It is rare that any of the rest of us push buttons in there, specifically because it is better to have a single-minded approach so people know what to expect.

The only recent exception I can think of is Wolf, who pulled some shennanigans over the last few months. That was discussed and dealt with, productively imo. That hasn't happened since the start of the year, that I can think of. Maybe that is what you are referring to?

Yes, recently things are going a bit better, I appreciate any effort form the staff there. And will state again if this discussion is all that needs to take place to keep it moving away from the crap, then it is serving it's purpose. More people will post if some of the rules (taking arguments to every thread, personal attacks, multiple accounts to harass people, and just ugly posts for the sake of ugly posts). That is sort of common sense to me. Some people may enjoy the banter between 2 people arguing the same argument, to me it gets boring and that is why it was put in the original set of rules.

There may be staff here that do not agree with the original rules, the updated rules, whatever. Fine, then post some current ones that won't be allowed and can be agreed on by staff, and users. That was also something discussed at length in the beginning, the fact that this site should cater to the users, not the staff.

I am looking back over the last few years and trying to figure out why the general discussion area here seems to not attract many users. It has not always been that way. No secret that I have opinions on it, I do see it from a different perspective than the average user, I actually do know why it was created along with the downloads forums.

[thebigguy]

feel free to delete this post but I'm beginning to think if we ban bill_kate, the appearance of any problems might evaporate :lol:


except for all of the trolling alias accounts, you could ban those also IMO
Boo urns.

[paddington]

it isn't just TTD... many social aspects of online communication are moving away from BBS / BB systems and toward more realtime platforms, like twitter / facebook, etc.

The trend is pretty widespread, encompasses ten-fold the cumulative number of people that ever posted on these older platforms and many users of these older platforms have been caught up in it and spend more of their social posting time on those newer, more popular platforms.

One of the things Lynne implemented here at TTD has really helped keep up with that (the instant posts on "Live Topic"s).

[Marc]

Yes, get rid of tags in "where we go to play" or at least have a way to show who is posting them to prevent anon trolling. They ate useful for looking up "NFL" or something that pertains to the subject, but otherwise they are just used for trolling.

[direwolf-pgh]

feel free to delete this post but I'm beginning to think if we ban bill_kate, the appearance of any problems might evaporate :lol:


except for all of the trolling alias accounts, you could ban those also IMO:D :D

im fairly certain this entire thread is a troll -- kinda funny but not haha funny
:( shame we cant get a single post from a random user

[Cornelious Jerome Garcia Oppenheimer]

feel free to delete this post but I'm beginning to think if we ban bill_kate, the appearance of any problems might evaporate :lol:
For the record ^^^ Springsteen Fan

;) :lol4:




except for all of the trolling alias accounts, you could ban those also IMO

:thumbsup

[Powderfinger]

I've always thought the lounge was supposed to be a little bit dangerous

;)

Indeed. The lounge isn't for the guy who just shows up to get the latest Justin Beiber show....

:thumbsup

[thebigguy]

Indeed. The lounge isn't for the guy who just shows up to get the latest Justin Beiber show....

:thumbsup
Wait, we can get Justin Beiber shows here!

[paddington]

I've always thought the lounge was supposed to be a little bit dangerous

;)

Indeed. The lounge isn't for the guy who just shows up to get the latest Justin Beiber show....

:thumbsup

you got me... I thought we might have actually had a Bieber show here on the tracker, for a minute. Luckily, I can only find an ISO thread, so we are, at least, getting something right :thumbsup

[Powderfinger]

i think the real answer here is to ban bill_kate...or at least not allow his input into anything associated with the Lounge area.

[lpfreak1170]

:( shame we cant get a single post from a random user

Too many assholes, trolls and aliases that are allowed to basically do what they want. Never been a big fan of the (mostly) hands-off style of moderation.

Now, take my post and opinions with a huge grain of salt, since there's a 99% chance I would never post in the lounge anyway. Just decided to post since you and some others were hoping to see some opinions from someone that doesn't post there.

[paddington]

would you speak more about why you'd not post in the Lounge, no matter how it was run?

[Powderfinger]

Now, take my post and opinions with a huge grain of salt, since there's a 99% chance I would never post in the lounge anyway. Just decided to post since you and some others were hoping to see some opinions from someone that doesn't post there.

Ding, ding, ding.....we have a winner!!!

Changing or tweaking a few rules isn't going to bring more people to the Lounge. Believe it or not, some folks just come here for the music!!! :eek2:

[lpfreak1170]

wow. you must feel very passionately about this issue as your last post was 11-17-08, 09:53 PM

Thanks for the perfect example.

I only posted what I did because some people were wanting opinions from outsiders (my word) as to why they didn't post in the lounge.

Edit: Why change your post to take the "troll" part of it out?

[paddington]

reminder:

This is not the Lounge. Productive, topical posts, please.

[daddyray]

^^ yeah what James said

[Cornelious Jerome Garcia Oppenheimer]

wow. you must feel very passionately about this issue as your last post was 11-17-08, 09:53 PM

Thanks for the perfect example.

I only posted what I did because some people were wanting opinions from outsiders (my word) as to why they didn't post in the lounge.

Edit: Why change your post to take the "troll" part of it out?

Thanks for trying.

[Cornelious Jerome Garcia Oppenheimer]

i think the real answer here is to ban bill_kate...or at least not allow his input into anything associated with the Lounge area.

:wave:

Got a powderbuck for me?? ;)

[lpfreak1170]

would you speak more about why you'd not post in the Lounge, no matter how it was run?

I've just never been a fan of the outside the music area community here. Not saying I dislike anyone here, I just don't like the "I should be able to say or do what I want" attitude that many of the posters seem to have.

[direwolf-pgh]

Thanks for trying.Too many assholes, trolls and aliases that are allowed to basically do what they want. Never been a big fan of the (mostly) hands-off style of moderation.no offence, but this is a very odd statement from someone who has never posted in the Lounge/ Piano Bar /Pol Forum.
Where did you 'meet' these trolls and alias' ? I hope they werent in the music section -- that would be uncool.

[Zoooma]

I just don't like the "I should be able to say or do what I want" attitude that many of the posters seem to have.

So perhaps you'd engage in the forums if those people weren't around?

I might. What mainly keeps this TTD member out of the forums is lack of time. But I peeked in the forums earlier and lpfreak there is right. Should a few spoil it for the rest? Without limitations on attacks, that will inevitably happen, they will reign whilst squashing the crap out of people who dare take them on. Some will stay and fight but I know that I've walked away from forums because it gets so tiring dealing with the Jared Loughner's of the world. I HATE limitations on speech but speech can be used hatefully and viciously and some of those assfaces won't stop; they're sick, they need help and they'll drive people away. I don't love moderation but mayhaps it's a necessary evil that's not really necessarily an evil. Punish the assfaces if they can't play nice. Plain and simple. Do you want more good people in the forums? The only way to make that happen is pay them or get rid of the sad pieces of crap who ruin it for the rest.

[Zoooma]

no offence, but this is a very odd statement from someone who has never posted in the Lounge/ Piano Bar /Pol Forum.
Where did you 'meet' these trolls and alias' ?

no offense but you don't have to post to know they exist; all you need to do is go in (the forums) and read . . . plus the problem has been mentioned by others.

[Marc]

those assfaces won't stop; they're sick, they need help and they'll drive people away.

That's the Political forum's mission statement.

[direwolf-pgh]

no offense but you don't have to post to know they exist; all you need to do is go in (the forums) and read . . . plus the problem has been mentioned by others.:lol: no no no.. there are professional seasoned alias' in the Where We Go To Play section (they are kind souls having fun)..
you could not simply show up at this site and start making those claims - you'd have to be in a forum for quite some time to figure out who is or isnt whom.

trolls are easy to spot :) agreed

[daddyray]

Wolf is an alias of mine and I am an alias of his.

both are figments of bluzman's imagination.

nothing is real..everything is permitted

[Cornelious Jerome Garcia Oppenheimer]

So perhaps you'd engage in the forums if those people weren't around?

I might. What mainly keeps this TTD member out of the forums is lack of time. But I peeked in the forums earlier and lpfreak there is right. Should a few spoil it for the rest? Without limitations on attacks, that will inevitably happen, they will reign whilst squashing the crap out of people who dare take them on. Some will stay and fight but I know that I've walked away from forums because it gets so tiring dealing with the Jared Loughner's of the world. I HATE limitations on speech but speech can be used hatefully and viciously and some of those assfaces won't stop; they're sick, they need help and they'll drive people away. I don't love moderation but mayhaps it's a necessary evil that's not really necessarily an evil. Punish the assfaces if they can't play nice. Plain and simple. Do you want more good people in the forums? The only way to make that happen is pay them or get rid of the sad pieces of crap who ruin it for the rest.

+1

:thumbsup

[lpfreak1170]

no offence, but this is a very odd statement from someone who has never posted in the Lounge/ Piano Bar /Pol Forum.
Where did you 'meet' these trolls and alias' ? I hope they werent in the music section -- that would be uncool.

None taken, and looking back on what I posted, I probably could have worded that part better. I have to admit I have taken a look in the lounge from time to time, and it just seems to me that is the prevailing type of posts there (not saying everyone is like/posts like that, of course). I have seen some of the trolling/fighting spill over into the torrent threads on occasion (seems to get squashed pretty quickly, though).

Anyway, I now have to go to work. Just wanted to comment on why I don't post in the lounge. Now to probably not post again for a year or two.

[Marc]

I want to hear vlad's answer to the question of this thread title.

[paddington]

would you speak more about why you'd not post in the Lounge, no matter how it was run?

I've just never been a fan of the outside the music area community here. Not saying I dislike anyone here, I just don't like the "I should be able to say or do what I want" attitude that many of the posters seem to have.


not to badger you, but how much control and what specific things do you think people should be prohibited from posting?

There are a few things for which we have no tolerance:
- trolling family members (who don't post here and have nothing to do with TTD) of users
- posting users' personal info (full names, phone numbers, addresses, etc)

there are some others... we generally keep hands off, but when one of these things comes up, the smackdown is swift - though we don't leave much trace of it for anyone to see.

Based on your feedback, what other things would you like to see prohibited?

again, not trying to badger, just interested in your line of thought.

[paddington]

I want to hear vlad's answer to the question of this thread title.

Vlad doesn't come around because we trolled him to death.

If I had to mention a case where it went too far, he would be one of the few, if not the only one.

Not saying he didn't invite / deserve a good bit of it, but some of it was way out of line and I regret that it happened..

But that is life. I think there is a good chance that what little we did do to stop it, once it was out of control, probably actually made it worse.
No one here hates Vlad and we probably all wish he'd come back to visit. We actually banned him from the lounge as a fix, at one point, but I'm pretty sure that was lifted.

He has remained active in the torrents sections of the site and is a valuable contributor. It may just be that he feels that is the best role for him these days.

[rspencer]

Some will stay and fight but I know that I've walked away from forums because it gets so tiring dealing with the Jared Loughner's of the world.

Seriously? You're comparing someone possibly offending you or hurting your feelings on a message board, to the murder of 6 people and wounding of over a dozen more?

SERIOUSLY?! :wtf:

That kind of extremist thought is the last place we need to look for ideas on how to improve the Lounge.

[ilove2rock]

:D :D

im fairly certain this entire thread is a troll -- kinda funny but not haha funny
:( shame we cant get a single post from a random user

HEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYY :wave::wave::wave:

I thought I was pretty random... The lounge is like, hmmmmm, "Welcome to the Jungle" and bring your weapons cause your gonna need em

[paddington]

Without limitations on attacks, that will inevitably happen, they will reign whilst squashing the crap out of people who dare take them on.
Some will stay and fight but I know that I've walked away from forums because it gets so tiring dealing with the Jared Loughner's of the world..


oh, good God

[The Wicker Man]

Actually, If you just got rid of aliases that would pretty much fix everythig. You get one account. Period.

[Black Dog]

Actually, If you just got rid of aliases that would pretty much fix everythig. You get one account. Period.

...in a nutshell :thumbsup

[paddington]

^^^ this has been discussed and continues to be worked on.

[Zoooma]

Seriously? You're comparing someone possibly offending you or hurting your feelings on a message board, to the murder of 6 people and wounding of over a dozen more?

SERIOUSLY?! :wtf:

That kind of extremist thought is the last place we need to look for ideas on how to improve the Lounge.

oh, good God

rspencer -- SERIOUSLY!!!!

Are you not similar to Hitler in that you both, I am assuming, have/had arms and legs and eyes, you breathe and walk and talk? Yeah? Okay, that's established -- you are similar to Hitler in some ways. Me, too. Also similar to squirrels and zebras 'cept most of them, that I know of, don't talk too much.

My opinion is not extremist. When I used Loughner's name I used it because he is one sick puppy and SIMILARLY people who think it's fine to attack others also have some screw loose. Attacking people whether it be with a gun or verbally (by typing) is not right, it's not fine at all and those who partake and feel like it is fine, they have some level of derangement goin' on. Not all deranged people shoot others but they sure as hell more often exist to put people down in internet forums. They don't allow opinion that differs from theirs; they shoot it down with nothing less than ferocious, vile hatred. They think anyone who thinks differently should be banished from existing amongst the rest of the human race. Why's that okay? It's not and it is precisely one very serious reason why people decide not to take part in particular forums.

[paddington]

it's best that some people just don't

[Cornelious Jerome Garcia Oppenheimer]

They don't allow opinion that differs from theirs; they shoot it down with nothing less than ferocious, vile hatred. They think anyone who thinks differently should be banished from existing amongst the rest of the human race. Why's that okay? It's not and it is precisely one very serious reason why people decide not to take part in particular forums.

This part makes some sense.

[rspencer]

Some. Too bad it's accompanied by the rest.

[Marc]

Let's troll him until he has a mental breakdown or leaves.

[Cornelious Jerome Garcia Oppenheimer]

:nono:

[direwolf-pgh]

HEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYY :wave::wave::wave:

I thought I was pretty random... and bring your weapons cause your gonna need emhey pretty random :whip: bring it
..'cause you know I'm packin' some heat

[hugofuguzev]

Actually, If you just got rid of aliases that would pretty much fix everythig. You get one account. Period.

I'd have to agree with this. No, I'm not a Den veteran like some of you -I've been here two and a half years or so- but in my time here I've been through the 'archives' as it were and from time to time there are actually some interesting discussions that take place in the Lounge, just as there are in the other sections of the forum. But, yeah, lately IMO the Lounge has become a bit of a cesspool (to the point where my wife has started calling this site "The Retard's Den"), seeing all the garbage posts, the incessant trolling and all the blatantly obvious 'alias' accounts.

I joined the Den 'cos of your mandate of quality music postings and whatnot...how many times have some of you seen me post something along the lines of, "Is this a music trading site or a fucking daycare?". Truth be told, I'd hate like hell to see the site's overall reputation being dragged down because of all the bullshit that goes down in the Lounge.

I'd say it needs to be moderated a bit better...this 'hands off' approach and letting the aliases run rampant ain't working. Actually moderate the damned thing, and set it up so you get one user per IP or however it's done and that would probably eliminate a lot of the problems. And outright ban the known troublemakers and shit disturbers- you know who they are.

And, again, knowing some of the history some of you have here, considering this is JamesKG's question, I have to ask, KG: this poll/issue wouldn't happen to have anything to do with your on/off battles with Freezer over the years, would it? I'm only asking- not trying to stir up any shit or anything. But, with all respect, knowing the history, I trust there is no hidden agenda here...

[paddington]

Absolutely not.
It was prompted by Bill_Kate's comments, which closely mirror yours.
The idea was to find out how many people would participate more if.. well, just read the poll question.

I don't see how it would have anything to do with freezer, specifically?

[thebigguy]

My opinion is not extremist. When I used Loughner's name I used it because he is one sick puppy and SIMILARLY people who think it's fine to attack others also have some screw loose. Attacking people whether it be with a gun or verbally (by typing) is not right, it's not fine at all and those who partake and feel like it is fine, they have some level of derangement goin' on.
You're not very good at giving examples, are you? You're good at using hyperbole, yes, but examples? Not so much.

Ironically, this is the type of language you seem to want regulated.

[direwolf-pgh]

I joined the Den 'cos of your mandate of quality music postings and whatnot...how many times have some of you seen me post something along the lines of, "Is this a music trading site or a fucking daycare?". Truth be told, I'd hate like hell to see the site's overall reputation being dragged down because of all the bullshit that goes down in the Lounge.
I'd like to point out that you can ignore an entire forum - with either self control or the assistance of forum tools.
If you enjoy the music - great. if you dont enjoy the banter - great.

[hugofuguzev]

I'd like to point out that you can ignore an entire forum - with either self control or the assistance of forum tools.
If you enjoy the music - great. if you dont enjoy the banter - great.

Yes, and I can also ignore the posts of 'members' whom I find particularly annoying, etc- which I have done in the past. As I said, Wolf, sometimes there are some interesting MUSIC related discussions that take place in the Lounge- but it's a pain trying to separate the wheat from the chaff.

I compare this site to something like Steve Hoffman's forum...bullshit is kept to a minimum over at SHF. You're also a member there, I believe...you don't think that if the Lounge had that kind of moderation that it would be an improvement?

And, JamesKG, thanks for answering my question. :thumbsup To your response, I say, "Fair enough." But, again, considering the history, it was inevitable somebody was going to bring it up sooner or later.

[SundayDriver]

So now the steering committee wants to take the fun out of the Lounge? :rolleyes: The Lounge is a free for all, and always has been. If you don't like it, don't read it. No one's forcing you to.

Oh, and the Lounge thread tags are hysterical. :lol: Someone should take away the tag limits!

[direwolf-pgh]

Yes, and I can also ignore the posts of 'members' whom I find particularly annoying, etc- which I have done in the past. As I said, Wolf, sometimes there are some interesting MUSIC related discussions that take place in the Lounge- but it's a pain trying to separate the wheat from the chaff. Im not disagreeing. I've enjoyed a lot of time in the Lounge and I've also taken breaks away from it - cause its too much sometimes or you're not in the mood.

The lounge is a unique place wherein you can stretch your imagination a little further than anywhere else I know of. It's certainly a lot of give and take.
It can be the best and it can be the worst. I've seen both. I'm ok with that - its the internet.

I've actually tried to entertain discussion and it just doesnt always work -sometimes it does. But it's more of a soundbyte / random tangent forum. things go this way and that quickly. One issue is that the group is 'so tight' that an inner-circle banter becomes inevitable with inside jokes and whatnot. But thats how it is - and thats how it was when I wandered in 5 years ago. It really freaked me at first. I thought these people were out of their minds.. and I kinda liked that :D

[rspencer]

I agree. It's like coming into any new environment, whether it be a new local bar, job, whatever. You have to bring yourself into the group as much as the group has to be willing to let you in.

[paddington]

I suppose you should now list the mods you think troll others incessantly.

There is no list. But tell me what someone should do when it is a mod or an admin that has crossed the lines and/or rules. Just leave?


I don't think I troll anyone, other than freezer. That's an on/off thing and I really don't think it bothers him that much. It's not like he's a fluffy bunny.

I agree with that.


I would hope not.

If it gets to that point, the report post button can be used... and has. Discussions are had between the staff from time to time about exactly this. Sometimes people get called out and get pissy... other times, they are simply alerted to someone who got upset when no harm was meant..

either way, don't leave :nono: tell someone.

In life, if I have an issue with someone, I go to them, first, if I care to resolve it. Just be direct. Here, I'd say send a PM or just post in the thread that you find <bold the comment in a quote> over the line and would rather not have that directed at me, etc...

something... don't just leave over one person.. staff or not. No, we don't ban staff if someone gets pissy about them.. we don't ban other members, either. The issue is simply dealt with... unless it isn't ever brought up. Someone has to say *something* if they need help.

[Cornelious Jerome Garcia Oppenheimer]

If life, if I have an issue with someone, I go to them, first, if I care to resolve it. Just be direct. Here, I'd say send a PM or just post in the thread that you find <bold the comment in a quote> over the line and would rather not have that directed at me, etc...

Done that.

something... don't just leave over one person.. staff or not. No, we don't ban staff if someone gets pissy about them.. we don't ban other members, either. The issue is simply dealt with... unless it isn't ever brought up. Someone has to say *something* if they need help.

Said it enough that it is a joke at this point.

[Black Dog]

One issue is that the group is 'so tight' that an inner-circle banter becomes inevitable with inside jokes and whatnot. But thats how it is - and thats how it was when I wandered in 5 years ago. It really freaked me at first. I thought these people were out of their minds.. and I kinda liked that :D

same here :thumbsup

[The Wicker Man]

Do I need to say it......
A handful of people have already said it in your sig




Brian, you have modded before. Do you not see any problem with the current rules and the way they are enforced, or even the layout of the sub-forums?

Everyone keeps thinking that it is a whole new set of rules that I am suggesting. Only a couple of tweaks to the already existing set of rules and blanket enforcement regardless of who it is breaking them. And to look into the layout of the sub-forums and mod powers within certain areas, as opposed to every mod popping in and enforcing the lounge rules how they interpret them and often different than the actual mod there and also some are regularly breaking them there too.

This is a logical place to start if anything is to be done. Added mods only if it gets to be too much, which is likely because whenever any changes are made, people like to oppose it and go the other way.

I was just responding to the poll question that popped up when I logged in, the poll itself was flawed. If I had a little history before I was asked to vote... Most mods hate me so I voted no...

[The Wicker Man]

Lastly, for now. Alias should be banned. It you don't have the ball or guts to post something under your main nick, then, #1 your a pussy, #2 then don't say it, #3 if it is humour or games related, than it is worth it.

[The Wicker Man]

Lastly, lastly, where is Lynne, did she disappear? Why doesn't she make a decision one way or another? Has she hook up with Grayson? OMG the shirts are being pressed... History does repeat itself.

[The Wicker Man]

Lastly, lastly,lastly... I have skimmed through a bunch of these threads to get caught up... Man, I must be getting older while the lounge stays in a quantum state of flux where no one ages. I guess I got too old... This shit is dumb. lates... ...:wave:...:)

[U2Lynne]

Lynne is right here. It just took me a while to read through all the posts that have been made since I last read this thread.

I've chimed in. But, I try to not lead with an iron fist by jumping right in and saying N Change Will Be Made! Bill and I have actually talked about this and so now he is getting an opinion from a larger group.

And, the discussion is good. I think the two 'sides' are not quite as far apart any longer and when that happens usually I don't need to do as much to make people happy as when they are still at opposite ends of the spectrum. :)

[The Wicker Man]

Lynne is right here. It just took me a while to read through all the posts that have been made since I last read this thread.

I've chimed in. But, I try to not lead with an iron fist by jumping right in and saying N Change Will Be Made! Bill and I have actually talked about this and so now he is getting an opinion from a larger group.

And, the discussion is good. I think the two 'sides' are not quite as far apart any longer and when that happens usually I don't need to do as much to make people happy as when they are still at opposite ends of the spectrum. :)

Hi Lynne! Sometimes a decision does need to be made. I think the ultimate joke is on everyone taking it seriously 1 side or another and you, as The Creator, get to kick back like Lisa Simpson, or was it Eric Cartman, or maybe Jesus... who created this whole artifical world just for pure entertainment and then to sit and watch it burn... Still knowing you created the whole time. You don't want to make it that easy, you want to sit back and see where it goes... I guess that is what I would do if I were you. Just no shirts...


Edit: Uh-Oh, you refer to yourself in the third person now...

[zosa]

Don't know that I'd post any less either. :dunno:
another +1

[Cornelious Jerome Garcia Oppenheimer]

There are a few no votes that could not post any more unless the time between post requirements were removed.

[dcbullet]

What?

[Cornelious Jerome Garcia Oppenheimer]

Some that voted they would not post more, could not post more unless the time between posting requirements were removed. They are already whores.

[dcbullet]

Oh. I get it.

[Cornelious Jerome Garcia Oppenheimer]

I knew you would.

[Cornelious Jerome Garcia Oppenheimer]

@ Craig/Direwolf

Why don't you just leave the modding to the mods with this thread and stick to your server activities. This thread is being watched by Lynne and a host of other mods. You are a little too close to the topic at hand to really be modding it effectively. I thought James said that you only mod when necessary?

Talk to you later Craig. Thanks for all the help you do around here with the server. I probably haven't mentioned that enough.

[paddington]

Where are all the fucking posts?


Craig, you need to cease moving / editing posts. That isn't your role.

[Cornelious Jerome Garcia Oppenheimer]

Where are all the fucking posts?


Craig, you need to cease moving / editing posts. That isn't your role.

:disbelief

:wave: James.

[ccrider895]

Sometimes in a debate, when a person has no true argument, they'll just attack because they want to win and advance their agenda no matter what so the only thing they can do is marginalize the other person. These people and some others have no sense of decency, they simply do not know what mutual respect is all about, or they have so much hatred in them that they don't care. They're sad people who should be felt sorry for. Sometimes something like a fun and normally functioning forum can be quite uncomfortable and even downright unpleasant because of those people. They definitely need to be told what's what and shown the door if necessary.
Nice ratio.

:lol:


I had a look at those Steve Hoffman forums, and yikes! :disbelief I'll take irreverence over hard-core wankery any day. I prefer my unicorns slightly twisted but free to roam. YMMV.

I am all for giving people the respect they have earned, but if one earnestly posts in the lounge about liking Miley Cyrus, well...they would be foolish not to expect some negative attention. ;)

When dealing with a lightly moderated forum, it's best not to take yourself or most anything that is said too seriously.

As far as the quality of the people who post there, see above. ^

That being said, it can't hurt anyone to be nicer. When all else fails there's always the ignore feature. Works for users, threads and forums.

[thebigguy]

How many people with less than 1000 posts have posted in this thread? Methinks it's turned into an opportunity for the same old people to complain about the same old people.

[direwolf-pgh]

:lol:


I had a look at those Steve Hoffman forums, and yikes! :disbelief I'll take irreverence over hard-core wankery any day. I prefer my unicorns slightly twisted but free to roam. YMMV.

When dealing with a lightly moderated forum, it's best not to take yourself or most anything that is said too seriously.

That being said, it can't hurt anyone to be nicer. When all else fails there's always the ignore feature. Works for users, threads and forums.exactly. But they do average 400 users in their GD with 200 people minimum.
its a mix of hardcore A/V nerds :nerd: and a handful of serious audio engineers.. like Atlantic records/major label audio engineers. pretty cool.
when I showed up there a post or two were deleted daily :D had to adjust the mouth management. I like that forum. its alright when I need a break from here.
How many people with less than 1000 posts have posted in this thread? Methinks it's turned into an opportunity for the same old people to complain about the same old people.um.. uh. its not the 80,000 users some were expecting.

[J-dot]

Ummm....I hadn't even given a thought to visiting the Lounge until now, so maybe the poll or the question about moderation has at least inspired me to check it out. We'll see how it goes, I reckon.

[donohuer]

For the record, I find myself spending less time here NOT because of the content but because of changes in my life. Work is considerably busier, I've got greater responsibility at home, and I have other distractions (Facebook, Fantasy Football which I started playing because of TTD). I like what CC said regarding the ignore feature. I dont' employ the "feature" per se, but if people or topics or threads bother me, I steer clear. The Zep Lineage threads and Politics forums are two examples.

There are other long time/old time members of this forums who rarely or never post here anymore. I can say with some accuracy that they are in the same or similar situation as I am; life doesn't afford the message board hang out time it once did. So regardless of the amount of moderation, increase or decrease in the enforcement of rules, etc, none of it will have as much impact on my time spent here as all of the real life factors that already dictate how much time I spend @ TTD, what threads I post in and who I choose to "socialize' with.

If put to an official and binding vote, I'd vote against any increase in rules and enforcement and such. This place and its predecessor have ALWAYS ebbed and flowed with regards to the amount of trolling, nastiness and personal attacks along with the moderation of those activities. Six and a half years later, TTD is still here and things seem to work themselves out. That's not to say that anyone else's opinion is wrong, I'm just offering mine.

:2cents:

[The Wicker Man]

wouldn't banning aliases also free up server space and increase speed saving some money...

[ccrider895]

exactly. But they do average 400 users in their GD with 200 people minimum.
its a mix of hardcore A/V nerds :nerd: and a handful of serious audio engineers.. like Atlantic records/major label audio engineers. pretty cool.
when I showed up there a post or two were deleted daily :D had to adjust the mouth management. I like that forum. its alright when I need a break from here.
um.. uh. its not the 80,000 users some were expecting.

I didn't mind the nerdiness factor, and the tech talk part... :nerd:
Eh, it doesn't really matter. :wave:

[toys]

I took a look at the members list the other day to see what new members here had become participants in the General Discussion forums. It was kind of disheartening. Since 2009, over two years, the number of new GD posters could be counted on one hand.

There are at least 9 usernames so far that I don't recognize who have voted yes. Personally I think it would be great if we had that many more folks posting in GD.

[Marc]

wouldn't banning aliases also free up server space and increase speed saving some money...

Everytime an alias is made it cost the server 20 gigs.

[U2Lynne]

And here too....
I'm playing the Admin card guys. My forum, my threads to mod. :cool:

[daddyray]

every time an alias posts lord baby jesus has a flash back about being crucified

[ccrider895]

I took a look at the members list the other day to see what new members here had become participants in the General Discussion forums. It was kind of disheartening. Since 2009, over two years, the number of new GD posters could be counted on one hand.

There are at least 9 usernames so far that I don't recognize who have voted yes. Personally I think it would be great if we had that many more folks posting in GD.

True, but people have to want to come in first. Some folks just aren't that social, or have internet blocked at work.

Perhaps if certain threads (such as the Zeppelin threads) were only visible to users with over 100 posts, some newbies would not feel so intimidated? :hmm:

[thebigguy]

True, but people have to want to come in first. Some folks just aren't that social, or have internet blocked at work.

Perhaps if certain threads (such as the Zeppelin threads) were only visible to users with over 100 posts, some newbies would not feel so intimidated? :hmm:
I think, if you up the post count, you just found a good solution.

[paddington]

cc, send me some pralines, please

[rspencer]

Love pecans, but never been a praline fan.

[Marc]

Pralines taste like mushy nuts.

[Cornelious Jerome Garcia Oppenheimer]

I think, if you up the post count, you just found a good solution.


I did at the beginning suggest just create another subforum and move the shit to there. So the trolls and aliases can still have their fun, but outside of what should be the main discussion area, and we all can jump in and throw some shit around and poke some well known bears to see what we see. There are at least some people that have known me long enough to know the lounge started as little to no moderation, hands off forum at my insistence and not without having to fight for it. I love to partake in that, and have been banned here and elsewhere for pushing it too far. I get that and enjoy it, but 6 years later when I look at the site as a whole I just still see the discussion side needing help of some kind. And still think that the average music fan that wanders over there is likely going to wander out before meeting any posting requirements to see any forums or threads that have one. I am not for heavy handed moderation and have never been.

If rules are going to be posted, then adjust them to reflect what is to be expected and stay true to moderating it using them.

First thing I hoped to find out was if anyone else had feelings about it as a whole. There is a group of regulars don't want anything changed. Nothing shocking there, the ones that are doing just what I am saying, have on cue chimed in with why I am full of shit. They even had a hard time not bashing some people that I have never seen posting around the lounge, nor do I expect to see them posting anytime soon after that nice "hello, we asked for your input, but who the fuck are you and you don't know shit'.

I am more concerned with what new users or longtime lurkers see when they do venture over there. Some of the people that enjoy the fast pace and thick skin required lounge, are very different than when they post elsewhere.

Hoping there would be more ideas from others. Not just a thread of repetitive pro's and con's of moderation levels.

I fucking hate mods, always have. A necessary evil and I did my share of time modding the GD at STG and tried to not mod the lounge here in the beginning. Finally walked away because I did not want heavy moderation. Me stating that a discussion board may need more moderation is very similar to TVhead stating that a picture someone else posted might be inappropriate.

The only other idea I have is to just better use the place up top in regards to requirements. I still think that brothels and such serve the regulars, but do not serve the site in regards to people seeing what they see and not knowing anything else and not getting a chance to get to know some of the regulars in a way that reflects the non lounge side of their personality.

The thread was edited by Craig in the way he does, James scolded him and then Lynne laid down the law. Even that alone is enough to take a look at my comments regarding staff. But in the end they should at least be consistent, and the group should get along as a whole. Seems that is not the case here.

[daddyray]

splitter

[toys]

True, but people have to want to come in first. Some folks just aren't that social, or have internet blocked at work.

cc what I was trying to say was that it looks like if we actually enforced the rules as stated we would have had 3x as many new posters in GD. We would have had 3x the number of people who wanted to come in.

[Cornelious Jerome Garcia Oppenheimer]

splitter

:hmm:

[daddyray]

like from Life of Brian..."splitter"

[bluzman]

I did at the beginning suggest just create another subforum and move the shit to there. So the trolls and aliases can still have their fun, but outside of what should be the main discussion area, and we all can jump in and throw some shit around and poke some well known bears to see what we see. There are at least some people that have known me long enough to know the lounge started as little to no moderation, hands off forum at my insistence and not without having to fight for it. I love to partake in that, and have been banned here and elsewhere for pushing it too far. ...<snipped>

If rules are going to be posted, then adjust them to reflect what is to be expected and stay true to moderating it using them.




For the first paragraph: isn't that what you can already do with a social group?

For the bold part: I see that as something that should have be going on in the forums anyways... never mind in a new forum.

[daddyray]

Are the the social groups hard to find here?.....is that a V bulletin set up issue? I do not know about that stuff....
they do not get much traffic, do they? the few I'm in do not.

[Cornelious Jerome Garcia Oppenheimer]

For the first paragraph: isn't that what you can already do with a social group?

:confused:

I do not understand what you are saying. Yes I can create a private social group and do whatever I want with it.

Who are you suggesting create a social group, the ones that do not want changes or the ones that do?


For the bold part: I see that as something that should have be going on in the forums anyways... never mind in a new forum.

:thumbsup

[paddington]

Pralines taste like mushy nuts.


you would know! :lmao:

:wook:

[Cornelious Jerome Garcia Oppenheimer]

Are the the social groups hard to find here?.....is that a V bulletin set up issue? I do not know about that stuff....
they do not get much traffic, do they? the few I'm in do not.

I see the social groups as a sort of redundancy with having them along side of a message board. I could see if the discussion forums did not exist at all and it was just downloading on the baords and then the social groups were the areas for discussion.

Really not that bad of an idea, but it feels like a long way around something easier.

Either update the rules to reflect what is allowed and enforce them, regardless of what level of rules were placed or removed. Or just enforce the ones that are already there, or as the majority likes to call it. Heavy handed moderation. I still do not see that. The rules are simple and pretty easy to understand, yet clearly not followed and somewhat a joke at this point.

[bluzman]

:confused:

I do not understand what you are saying. Yes I can create a private social group and do whatever I want with it.

Who are you suggesting create a social group, the ones that do not want changes or the ones that do?



:thumbsup

Doesn't creating a social group for the "ones that do" or "do not" solve that part of the issue and you make your own rules.

Then the only other issue is "forum rules".

[daddyray]

Buzz Kill that was not any kinda answer to my questions.....on the other hand you remain painfully long winded so you have that going for ya.

[ccrider895]

Pralines are awesome. Especially if they just came out of the oven like you get 'em downtown in the candy shops. :drool

I don't get up there very often, well to the shops, but I'll let you know on that sometime soon.

Oh, and i'm not trying to control anything Bill. I'm just pw'ing - you know, throw some shit to the wall and see what sticks. :thumbsup

cc what I was trying to say was that it looks like if we actually enforced the rules as stated we would have had 3x as many new posters in GD. We would have had 3x the number of people who wanted to come in.

You really think the Lounge could handle 12 users? :hmm:




:lol:

[Cornelious Jerome Garcia Oppenheimer]

Are the the social groups hard to find here?.....

Not really.

is that a V bulletin set up issue?

I suppose there would be ways that would make them a bit more noticable.

I do not know about that stuff....

You're old, we don't expect you to understand all the gadgets and such.

they do not get much traffic, do they?

Mine didn't, I deleted it.

the few I'm in do not.

Not surprising. There are numerous discussion sub forums and that is where most of the discussion takes place.





I tried to keep that short and sweet as to keep it inside of what appears to be a mild case of old person ADD. ;)


Did you get anything good for your birfday? Did HB send you an uncirculated FM show?

[Marc]

you would know! :lmao:

:wook:

I'm really surprised someone took that out of context.

Yes, I would know. You ever put roasted peanuts in a coke? They come out all soft and mushy and make the coke flat. It's fucking bullshit, and that is what pralines have the texture of.

[U2Lynne]

The thread was edited by Craig in the way he does, James scolded him and then Lynne laid down the law. Even that alone is enough to take a look at my comments regarding staff. But in the end they should at least be consistent, and the group should get along as a whole. Seems that is not the case here.
But, what you didn't see was that yes, some posts were moved to the thread in The Lounge, and then I asked Staff to please let me mod these threads and I was told No Problem. It wasn't some big debate that had to happen. Usually I welcome the help modding this forum, but I was trying to watch these two threads myself this time and hadn't stated that to Staff.

I would say that we do get along as a whole. I'm not saying we don't have disagreements though, because we do. But, for the most part, they stay pretty civil and get worked out. How can you not take a group of random people and put them together and not have disagreements though? I think if you took anyone on Staff and had them run the site, it would be different than how it is now. Different is not necessarily bad. We just all have different opinions on things. But, nobody gets upset if the decision goes right when they wanted left. Just like, if we change things in The Lounge, no one will have a hissy fit if they were against the change.

I honestly think TTD has pretty cool Staff. :)

[Marc]

I asked Staff to please let me mod these threads and I was told No Problem. Usually I welcome the help modding this forum, but I was trying to watch these two threads myself this time and hadn't stated that to Staff.
Translation: Post hardcore pornography in this thread, and if I am not around, the staff have to sit on their hands and leave it until I am back to clean it up.

:woot:

[The Wicker Man]

Oh.. and remasters suck!

[Cornelious Jerome Garcia Oppenheimer]

But, what you didn't see was that yes, some posts were moved to the thread in The Lounge, and then I asked Staff to please let me mod these threads and I was told No Problem. It wasn't some big debate that had to happen. Usually I welcome the help modding this forum, but I was trying to watch these two threads myself this time and hadn't stated that to Staff.

Perhaps if some of the issues I brought up were not a problem it would have been easier to see that. To me it sure appeared to be more of the same treatment from Craig. Selective deleting of posts, and editing his after the person he is talking to is no longer logged on. Get's old quick.

I do appreciate you stepping in here, and appreciate your dedication to some of the missions we set forth so long ago.

I would say that we do get along as a whole. I'm not saying we don't have disagreements though, because we do. But, for the most part, they stay pretty civil and get worked out. How can you not take a group of random people and put them together and not have disagreements though? I think if you took anyone on Staff and had them run the site, it would be different than how it is now. Different is not necessarily bad. We just all have different opinions on things. But, nobody gets upset if the decision goes right when they wanted left.

Good. That is how it should be

Just like, if we change things in The Lounge, no one will have a hissy fit if they were against the change.

I guess I will have to trust you on that, and I do. I have recieved a nice 'Fuck You' PM that said nothing else from Craig. You can see for yourself who is tagging all the threads I post in, feels like someone is having a hissy fit just about proposed change.

I honestly think TTD has pretty cool Staff. :)

I can not dispute that and know that I have done plenty to deserve the reputation I have. I will say that the majority of the staff has been very receptive and cool talking with me, in threads and PMs. You have a great staff of interesting and talented characters that for the most part can take what they dish out and are willing to listen.

[Cornelious Jerome Garcia Oppenheimer]

Oh.. and remasters suck!

+1.

[ep620]

I find this thread and this thread (http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=89073&page=4) to be insulting and offensive towards current lounge users and would like them to be deleted. Thanks :thumbsup

[paddington]

pretty much. was actually getting to be ok for a while there... then it got all fucked up again.

[AAR.oner]

Are the the social groups hard to find here?.....is that a V bulletin set up issue? I do not know about that stuff....
they do not get much traffic, do they? the few I'm in do not.

i think there a hard to find in a way, but the lack of traffic i see more as its just not a viable BB tool...too much of a "social networking" feel, i prefer the good old threads/posts personally

[AAR.oner]

Either update the rules to reflect what is allowed and enforce them, regardless of what level of rules were placed or removed. Or just enforce the ones that are already there, or as the majority likes to call it. Heavy handed moderation. I still do not see that. The rules are simple and pretty easy to understand, yet clearly not followed and somewhat a joke at this point.

lets call a spade a spade, the Lounge Rules are a complete joke...nothing more than a suggestion in passing really

enforcing the rules we already have would make a big difference, especially in eliminating the bully/troll aspect thats become the norm

[AAR.oner]

I honestly think TTD has pretty cool Staff. :)

other than the females on staff, the rest are just nerds and assholes...wonder which one i fit in to :hmm:





nah, we've had a great staff...looking back, there ain't one person we've added that i'd do different...except maybe that Cover Mod guy, what a wank he was! :lol4:

[Black Dog]

other than the females on staff, the rest are just nerds and assholes...wonder which one i fit in to :hmm:





nah, we've had a great staff...looking back, there ain't one person we've added that i'd do different...except maybe that Cover Mod guy, what a wank he was! :lol4:

impeach toto! :disbelief

http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=32108

[Marc]

No nudity is allowed and quickly dealt with to protect the children. Personal Attacks and being an Asshole is okay though. America, Fuck Yeah!

[paddington]

No nudity is allowed and quickly dealt with to protect the children. Personal Attacks and being an Asshole is okay though. America, Fuck Yeah!


not just children... coworkers, etc

some text is not the same as a picture

[harpsichord]

I don't visit The Lounge often, and almost never post there, but I think it's a good idea to have a place where the AssClowns and DoucheBags can rag on each other and leave the rest of the forums alone. You can waste your time trying to police it better, I suppose, but it seems like a fool's errand to me.

If you want a more 'civil' forum, you'd be better served starting another one, with more stringent moderation, IMHO.

[paddington]

I don't visit The Lounge often, and almost never post there, but I think it's a good idea to have a place where the AssClowns and DoucheBags can rag on each other and leave the rest of the forums alone. You can waste your time trying to police it better, I suppose, but it seems like a fool's errand to me.

If you want a more 'civil' forum, you'd be better served starting another one, with more stringent moderation, IMHO.


agree.

we actually have that forum.. the "Piano Bar". Participation isn't very high, but the discussion stays pretty civil in there. :thumbsup

[harpsichord]

we actually have that forum.. the "Piano Bar". Participation isn't very high, but the discussion stays pretty civil in there. :thumbsup

Yeah, I spend much of my time there, it's a very interesting and informative forum - and the A&D count is manageable. :D

[Bech Orgasma]

It all depends who does the moderating.
Simple as that.

[Marc]

not just children... coworkers, etc

some text is not the same as a picture

right. then why not allow nudity in threads with "NWS" in the title?

[paddington]

because we don't allow nudity, period?

pretty sure that is the reason. I'd be ok with a discussion about changing it..


why don't you create a thread about it and I'll do a poll?

[Marc]

Because I think it will do as much for change here as the three threads in this forum have done.

[paddington]

agree

[Gary Glitter]

i doubt i'm legally old enough to vote, so i won't.

certainly the best thread i've read in years.

i reckon loads of the bullies would love a chance to start again, turn a new page, consolidate all of their aliases into a new singular identity that had no history, no gripe with anyone, nothing to prove, and no scores to settle.

but there are dark forces lurking in the site's nebulous infrastructure. if those dark forces aren't prepared to let go the past, and they are in possession of certain powers, they can push you back into the hate-fuelled shenanigans that laid waste to your reputation previously.

of course, the majority of the powerful -- often invisible -- controllers are good at what they do, and driven only by honourable intentions. but what if a rogue element were to monitor your attempt to singularize your identity and change your ways, and then purposefully drive you back into the badlands (so that you became the Clint Eastwood character in Unforgiven). you know... you wanted to climb out of the pit, to lose the aliases and get chatting nicely with some new faces about the rock n roll, the zeppelin, the jazz, but the dark forces dragged you back into the pit.

and when they dragged you back in, they grabbed your trousers and pulled them down a little, exposing some of your arse. of course, passers-by will assume you're a site-labourer or a mechanic. they won't want to know what really inspires you.

if i think back to when i first joined the site, the Lounge was a million times better than it is now. there was an edginess, but it was great fun. one big change since then (IMHO) is that the big personalities from back then don't post as much as they used to.

another change, though, and the one that i believe has led to the rise of this particular thread, is that unitiated members seem more inclined to label aliases as Trolls these days, whereas in the past the vibe was such that people generally assumed that Aliases were created as characterizations serving purely comedic purposes.

obviously a small number of people that don't understand (or appreciate) characterization and the comedic purposes will instinctively refer to an alias as a Troll, but there were very few members like that back in, say, 2006, while there seems to be a lot more of them now; and, if there are more of them at a time when only about 30 or so people post regularly, it obviously creates a situation in which the old-style comedic-characterization-aliases fair pretty badly.

looking back into Lounge history there was one character progression (lineage) that i will never forget, and that was the TVHead>?>Dirt Shoes>Marshall Applewhite sequence. to me, this was classic Lounge, classic internet, and absolutely priceless... it would be a great shame if the members who view aliases only as Trolls were to represent the most prevalent opinion, because they would make such enjoyable Lounge moments impossible.

i also loved Mr T.

also, just having Lynne posting regularly in the Lounge as a willing participant kept things kinda cool. when the cat's away, the glamour puss will play.

[daddyray]

wise words GG....help yourself to some bitchin' Hawkwind

[The Wicker Man]

i doubt i'm legally old enough to vote, so i won't.

certainly the best thread i've read in years.

i reckon loads of the bullies would love a chance to start again, turn a new page, consolidate all of their aliases into a new singular identity that had no history, no gripe with anyone, nothing to prove, and no scores to settle.

but there are dark forces lurking in the site's nebulous infrastructure. if those dark forces aren't prepared to let go the past, and they are in possession of certain powers, they can push you back into the hate-fuelled shenanigans that laid waste to your reputation previously.

of course, the majority of the powerful -- often invisible -- controllers are good at what they do, and driven only by honourable intentions. but what if a rogue element were to monitor your attempt to singularize your identity and change your ways, and then purposefully drive you back into the badlands (so that you became the Clint Eastwood character in Unforgiven). you know... you wanted to climb out of the pit, to lose the aliases and get chatting nicely with some new faces about the rock n roll, the zeppelin, the jazz, but the dark forces dragged you back into the pit.

and when they dragged you back in, they grabbed your trousers and pulled them down a little, exposing some of your arse. of course, passers-by will assume you're a site-labourer or a mechanic. they won't want to know what really inspires you.

if i think back to when i first joined the site, the Lounge was a million times better than it is now. there was an edginess, but it was great fun. one big change since then (IMHO) is that the big personalities from back then don't post as much as they used to.

another change, though, and the one that i believe has led to the rise of this particular thread, is that unitiated members seem more inclined to label aliases as Trolls these days, whereas in the past the vibe was such that people generally assumed that Aliases were created as characterizations serving purely comedic purposes.

obviously a small number of people that don't understand (or appreciate) characterization and the comedic purposes will instinctively refer to an alias as a Troll, but there were very few members like that back in, say, 2006, while there seems to be a lot more of them now; and, if there are more of them at a time when only about 30 or so people post regularly, it obviously creates a situation in which the old-style comedic-characterization-aliases fair pretty badly.

looking back into Lounge history there was one character progression (lineage) that i will never forget, and that was the TVHead>?>Dirt Shoes>Marshall Applewhite sequence. to me, this was classic Lounge, classic internet, and absolutely priceless... it would be a great shame if the members who view aliases only as Trolls were to represent the most prevalent opinion, because they would make such enjoyable Lounge moments impossible.

i also loved Mr T.

also, just having Lynne posting regularly in the Lounge as a willing participant kept things kinda cool. when the cat's away, the glamour puss will play.


God Damn it, I thought you were TV.

[AAR.oner]

GG just made a sensible, well put post...that wasn't about glam, glitter, or young boys :wtf: :clap:

[uninvited94]

I never counted if I posted more in- or outside the Lounge, but I´m sure, most of my posts happened in the proper ABT/VBT-sections and the Piano Bar. It might have something to do that I don´t have a say in many of the topics - American Politics, American Sports - and not how it is moderated. I don´t even have an alias so far.

[rspencer]

Get with the program, Ollie. :nono:

[Fuzzy_Poodle]

I'm just here for the music.

[Gary Glitter]

GG just made a sensible, well put post...that wasn't about glam, glitter, or young boys :wtf: :clap:glam and glitter are my stock and trade, to be fair.
innit?

[Drgiggles1]

you would like the thread called "Why don't you visit the Lounge?" to be placed in the lounge? :lol:

I put it here so people who don't usually go in the Lounge might see it.
I got a good kick out of your comment James. Thanks for the laugh. Only because I did not see it here either. Someone who has a woman suffering dependency issues now, I needed the laugh. I personally don't visit the lounge much because I use to be a mod on Piranha Fury website and between this economy kicking me in the ass and the moderating I got burned out literally so I have no desire to visit it much. That would be my reason in a nutshell. Just enjoying the music for now.

[AAR.oner]

there's music at this site?!?!

[paddington]

you would like the thread called "Why don't you visit the Lounge?" to be placed in the lounge? :lol:

I put it here so people who don't usually go in the Lounge might see it.
I got a good kick out of your comment James. Thanks for the laugh. Only because I did not see it here either. Someone who has a woman suffering dependency issues now, I needed the laugh. I personally don't visit the lounge much because I use to be a mod on Piranha Fury website and between this economy kicking me in the ass and the moderating I got burned out literally so I have no desire to visit it much. That would be my reason in a nutshell. Just enjoying the music for now.

thanks for the feedback :wave:

[jabulon]

It might have something to do that I don´t have a say in many of the topics - American Politics, American Sports -
+1. Plus the fact that I'm in a different time zone than most Loungers, that I don't always get or understand the in-crowd jokes. But I do visit the Lounge from time to time, to read a couple of the threads that I like, to have a good laugh and then move back to the music part or move on.

[The Wicker Man]

It really depends what you are looking for. If you want a really civil discussion place, then enforce the rules, ban aliases, etc. There are plenty other sites where that is done and the discussions are civil, semi-entertaining and more populated, if not a little more boring.


If you want to enforce the rules, the (us) regulars will freak out, bitch, moan and complain, cry censorship, etc. After about 3 weeks we will either abide or move on. Everyone hates change, but if that is the goal of the site to see if it recruits more peeps, then why not try it and see.

It is not like it will have any effect on the mission or purpose of the site. I just think most members could care less about the lounge, it would be interesting to see what would happen.

Would there be any detriment to cleaning the lounge up anyway? Since when is chasing post whores away a bad thing?

I mean if the Lounge cleans up before Charlie Sheen?

[dazed64]

Well,That was quite the read....To be honest with you guys,I forgot the forums were even here for a long time...used to read them years ago..Stumbled back on to them a couple months ago...Gotta love a good freezer thread :lol4: ....Read a few of them and then checked a few others out,not many I would post in or even bother goin back to......The banter back and forth between the few who post (and their covert names) can be funny at times but it gets old quick...The tagging gets kinda lame also,everyone trying to one up the next guy/gal.....then the trolling starts and it just becomes a bunch of 5th graders pointing at each other across the schoolyard,again,comical at times but how many times can you read "fixed that for you" in a forum post before it becomes assinine......I really think the main problem is that too few people even know the forums are here,I know its a stupid assumption,however,I mod over at LL and we moved the forums off the front page once and it slowed the whole forum post thing down....when it was put back posts increased,the whole out of sight out of mind thing....I dont know how the tracker works here but maybe putting the last 5 forums posted to(I think LL has 10) on the torrent page or index page(our tracker is set up so its on every page) would get you some exposure and bring in more people...just a thought....either way,thanks for reading and I am sure someone will quote me and put "fixed that for you" in the post......:)

[AAR.oner]

then the trolling starts and it just becomes a bunch of 5th graders pointing at each other across the schoolyard,again,comical at times but how many times can you read "fixed that for you" in a forum post before it becomes assinine

+1 :clap:

no need to FTFY, ya hit the nail on the head

[The Wicker Man]

I found out why people don't post anymore here. They all are making six figures now. See my signature.

[bluzman]

It's not my alias.

[Gary Glitter]

@JamesKG

this plan or speculative notion you have of banning aliases... how exactly will it work?
will members have to use their real names?
coz right now, pretty much 99% of everyone on this site is an alias.
not like the school buddies you chat with on Facebook who use their real names and are-who-they-say-they-are because you know them personally.
you know what i mean?
i've always argued that screen-names are aliases.
i laugh when people say "use your original nick name!"
why? what difference does it make? you never knew who i was anyway!
why not cut through the crap entirely, and make this a real social network?

[paddington]

@JamesKG

this plan or speculative notion you have of banning aliases... how exactly will it work?
will members have to use their real names?
coz right now, pretty much 99% of everyone on this site is an alias.
not like the school buddies you chat with on Facebook who use their real names and are-who-they-say-they-are because you know them personally.
you know what i mean?
i've always argued that screen-names are aliases.
i laugh when people say "use your original nick name!"
why? what difference does it make? you never knew who i was anyway!
why not cut through the crap entirely, and make this a real social network?


I have not posted anything about banning aliases

[Gary Glitter]

I have not posted anything about banning aliases

Post 66 (by Black Dog): Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wicker Man
Actually, If you just got rid of aliases that would pretty much fix everythig. You get one account. Period.
...in a nutshell

then

post 67 (by JamesKG):
^^^ this has been discussed and continues to be worked on.


see, James, you were discussing and working on the idea of restricting aliases. you can't pretend to forget just because the conversational heat is on.

[chinajoe]

not too sure banning alias's will solve all of the lounge "issues". the truely nefarious trolls will simply log in elsewhere under other ip's.

[AAR.oner]

james wasn't the one who proposed banning aliases...i have before, many times

and as chinajoe mentioned above, they will simply log in through an IP mask or proxy...we've all come to the conclusion tho that most aliases are outta fun and thats fine, the ones used for actual trolling/flame wars will be banned...case-by-case

[coeconspiritor]

:( shame we cant get a single post from a random user

As a lurker, I gotta say that I read the posts/threads in the lounge mainly for entertainment purposes. There's actually some pretty funny content in there.
To be honest, if the lounge was moderated heavier, not only would I not be more likely to post, but I would probably wouldn't go there at all.

[paddington]

I have not posted anything about banning aliases

Post 66 (by Black Dog): Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wicker Man
Actually, If you just got rid of aliases that would pretty much fix everythig. You get one account. Period.
...in a nutshell

then

post 67 (by JamesKG):
^^^ this has been discussed and continues to be worked on.


see, James, you were discussing and working on the idea of restricting aliases. you can't pretend to forget just because the conversational heat is on.


discussed, because some staff members want it. What we have been discussing, specifically, is *how* we might ban and *enforce* that ban.


As for me, I do not particularly favor either position - but I do not know (and neither does anyone else, so far) how we would effectively enforce such a ban.

for the time being, we have decided to ban specific aliases when they become a problem, on a case-by-case basis. This could change.

[paddington]

just read aaron's post where he pretty much already said what I said :lol

[Gary Glitter]

just read aaron's post where he pretty much already said what I said :lol
yeah, but you said it ten times better.

[ingram]

it's pretty obvious: the less moderated = the best :)

[Ripotaur]

I have noticed a whole shit load of lurkers in the Lounge as of late. IMO, this thread and the others like it have just made what goes on in the Lounge more noticeable to a few people who never went in there, but they still don't post in it because they have nothing to offer or are afraid of getting butt hurt.

Or maybe I'm just looking at the "Currently Active" status more or are on at times I am usually not. But it seems like every few hours I am viewing a thread and I look at the Currently Active section and think "Who the fuck is that?"

[direwolf-pgh]

I have noticed a whole shit load of lurkers in the Lounge as of late.please define 'shitload'

i saw these lurkers:
sysoverload, coeconspiritor, PCMAN101, dwarfinside, c-bn ..but they're just old alias' - unlike yourself.

[trustthex]

^^^^

:thumbsup

[toys]

I have noticed a whole shit load of lurkers in the Lounge as of late. IMO, this thread and the others like it have just made what goes on in the Lounge more noticeable to a few people who never went in there, but they still don't post in it because they have nothing to offer or are afraid of getting butt hurt.

Or maybe I'm just looking at the "Currently Active" status more or are on at times I am usually not. But it seems like every few hours I am viewing a thread and I look at the Currently Active section and think "Who the fuck is that?"

i'm seeing many more new names browsing the Lounge too

now they just need to start joining in and post

[J-dot]

Occasional lurker here.... I check in from time to time, and I generally don't see any conversations that need my input, so I just lurk for a few minutes or less, then split. I'd imagine one or two others do a similar thing. This conversation didn't really need my input either, come to think of it, but it seemed important to a few folks that some of us other folks stopped in and didn't say anything, so there you go.

[ZJLI]

Occasional lurker here.... I check in from time to time, and I generally don't see any conversations that need my input, so I just lurk for a few minutes or less, then split. I'd imagine one or two others do a similar thing. This conversation didn't really need my input either, come to think of it, but it seemed important to a few folks that some of us other folks stopped in and didn't say anything, so there you go.

You seem very thoughtful and intelligent.



:)

[paddington]

yes, he seems wonderful... and quite clean.